thread size of drain plug 55 nomad fuel tank?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Anybody know? I'm trying to buy a 90 degree barbed fitting online to install in bottom of tank for LS fuel pickup point for inline pump setup. I bought a straight barb fitting at Lowes last year and put it in my 4 door I sold but I don't recall what size pipe thread it had.
Thanks
Rocky

[chevynut]

It's a NPT pipe thread but I'm not sure which size. Other threads have said it's either 1/8" or 1/4". You should be able to tell just by looking at it because there's a big difference between 1/8" NPT and 1/4" NPT. Here's the NPT pipe ODs:

1/8 NPT .405"
1/4" NPT .540"

So if it looks like 3/8 bolt, it's a 1/8" NPT. If it looks like a 1/2" bolt it's 1/4 NPT. I read one place where someone said it looked like a 3/8 fine thread bolt.

[Rick_L]

Pretty sure it's 1/8" NPT. And too small for a fuel feed line.

[chevynut]

And too small for a fuel feed line.

Good point. Probably too small even if it was 1/4 NPT.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks guys looks like I have to take a trip to Lowes again with a plug in hand. I have to disagree on the size not being big enough. Either 1/8 or 1/4 npt will work just fine for this application. Reason I say this is because the welbro 255 inline pump uses 5/16 barbed fittings. Also the GM filter regulator uses dormon quick disconnects and even the 3/8 feed id in that fitting is no bigger than the id of a 5/16 hose barb. I know this because I run the same setup on my cutlass. The main line running from reg to fuel rail will be 3/8 id high pressure. I have 50k on this setup with no issues. Reason I'm wanting to use the plug is to reduce the head on the pump they claim it is better on the pump. I plan to run the return back true the sender 5/16 line. The other option is to buy a sender with 3/8 feed and 5/16 return. I'm planning to add a large inline fuel filter as a pre filter/sump tank. I don't do this on my cutlass but thought it might help with fuel slosh starvation on empty tank.

[chevynut]

The nominal ID of a 1/8" NPT is 1/8" and the nominal ID of a 1/4" NPT is 1/4". In practice, they're usually a little larger than that.

No way will a standard 1/8" NPT fitting be large enough ID to work on an EFI fuel line, imo. ;) I just measured the ID of a couple of 1/8" NPT fittings I have and they were both .187". You MIGHT be able to bore them to 1/4" which still isn't large enough imo.

1/4" NPT fittings are usually in the .280" ID range depending on the fitting...it could be reamed out too. The minimum recommendation for fuel line size for most EFI fuel systems is 3/8" or -6AN. A 1/4" NPT might work as a 3/8" fuel line is probably around .280" ID.

The problem is, your drain plug is 1/8" NPT. Maybe you can drill and re-tap it

I ran both my supply and return lines 3/8" stainless tubing with AN fittings. I'd rather not have any potential restrictions.

[chevynut]

Reason I'm wanting to use the plug is to reduce the head on the pump they claim it is better on the pump.

I'm not sure I understand that comment. What "plug" are you referring to? Seems like your pressure regulator is what determines the head on the pump. Too small of supply line will increase the pressure required at the pump.

[Rick_L]

C'nut, I think he's trying to have a positive head on the pump inlet (gravity feed), rather than suction. Which is good, but only when done right.

Rocky, don't put a filter in the suction line. It defeats the purpose of gravity feed. A coarse sock is the most you should use. Put the real filter on the pressure side of the pump.

[chevynut]

C'nut, I think he's trying to have a positive head on the pump inlet (gravity feed), rather than suction. Which is good, but only when done right.

We both know it doesn't matter if you take the fuel out of the bottom of the tank or out of the top of the tank with a pickup tube that goes to the bottom (siphon) if the pump is at the same level relative to the tank. The pressure at the pump inlet is going to be the same once that pickup tube is full. If it was me, I'd use a 3/8" stock replacement pickup and sender and plumb the pump to it.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

We both know it doesn't matter if you take the fuel out of the bottom of the tank or out of the top of the tank with a pickup tube that goes to the bottom (siphon) if the pump is at the same level relative to the tank. The pressure at the pump inlet is going to be the same once that pickup tube is full. If it was me, I'd use a 3/8" stock replacement pickup and sender and plumb the pump to it.

C'nut I always thought that was correct myself as well.

Rick only reason I said pre filter is because if I used the drain plug hole there is no type of screen ie pickup shock. I was considering a 120 micron filter canister something like this. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krc-4906bl/overview/ I believe it will gravity feed. Aeromotive recommends a 100 micron filter for pre suction side use. As you said the vet filter regulator is the real filter post pump it is rated at 5 microns I believe. I will reconsider using the sender unit for fuel injection. The drain plug just makes it easier to route to the rest of the fuel system. The 55 feed line runs down the passenger side but the LS engines feed on the drivers side. I was planning on mounting the fuel pump and regulator on the rear cross member or passenger frame next to the wheel well and then run high pressure compression fitting flex poly stainless jacketed line to the fuel rail along the drivers side frame.

What is the best source for buying an-6 pre length braided fuel line? I want to use it for connecting from the tank to the pump and filter regulator. Or do you just buy it and cut to length yourself? This is all on the low pressure side pre pump. Rockie question I know but I have never used it. My current setup accept for the main feed line from the pump uses all hose barb fittings and high pressure hose from local parts house. Works great and easy to replace but I want a cleaner look this go round.

[NickP]

C'nut I always thought that was correct myself as well. Rick only reason I said pre filter is because if I used the drain plug hole there is no type of screen ie pickup shock. I was considering a 120 micron filter canister something like this. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krc-4906bl/overview/ I believe it will gravity feed. Aeromotive recommends a 100 micron filter for pre suction side use. As you said the vet filter regulator is the real filter post pump it is rated at 5 microns I believe. I will reconsider using the sender unit for fuel injection. The drain plug just makes it easier to route to the rest of the fuel system. The 55 feed line runs down the passenger side but the LS engines feed on the drivers side. I was planning on mounting the fuel pump and regulator on the rear cross member or passenger frame next to the wheel well and then run high pressure compression fitting flex poly stainless jacketed line to the fuel rail along the drivers side frame. What is the best source for buying an-6 pre length braided fuel line? I want to use it for connecting from the tank to the pump and filter regulator. Or do you just buy it and cut to length yourself? This is all on the low pressure side pre pump. Rockie question I know but I have never used it. My current setup accept for the main feed line from the pump uses all hose barb fittings and high pressure hose from local parts house. Works great and easy to replace but I want a cleaner look this go round.I use: http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/premium-black-nylon-race-hose/ You can have them made to your specs. Use PTFE hose though.

[Rick_L]

Rocky if you mount the fuel pump that high, you might as well use a stock fuel pickup or the 3/8" one that's a replacement for 2-4 or FI cars.

Better yet, forget all that stuff and get a tank with a pump in it. If you're trying to hold costs down, cheapest one would be the Tanks Inc. setup (Aeromotive sells the same tank with a different pump). I don't think they make one for wagons, but since you have a modified car, you can get rid of the spare well and use a passenger car style tank. That's what C'nut did, though he has a different tank.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Rick, I plan to keep the wheel well and stock tank. I personally like external pumps for ease of service. Only reason i did not go with a c4 rearend kit from Cnut was when i discovered the tank and wheel well have to go. For the most part my nomad want be very moded per say meaning most mods are bolt on and can be undone very easily. Unless Decide to weld a big ole x across the frame lol. Im still undecided about that.

My other thought process was picking up fuel from the bottom might help with fuel stravation on empty ir low tank but sense the tank stores the fuel vertically it naturally should be better at launch than my stock A body tank is. I just keep it full and dontvreally have any issues cept if i play when its 1/4 or so.

i just confirmed the drain plug appears to be 3/8 fine. I will confirm tommorrow. The stinking varnash over came looks like i have to drain tank when pull the plug.

[chevynut]

C'nut I always thought that was correct myself as well.

It is. I don't know why Aeromotive thinks any differently. The only thing with taking it out of the top of the tank is you might have to prime it since the pump probably won't suck air. Once the line is full it won't matter.


I will reconsider using the sender unit for fuel injection. The drain plug just makes it easier to route to the rest of the fuel system.

Wouldn't the drain plug location expose the line to damage a lot more?


run high pressure compression fitting flex poly stainless jacketed line to the fuel rail along the drivers side frame. What is the best source for buying an-6 pre length braided fuel line?

Compression fittings? The braided SS fuel lines are easy to make up yourself with parts from Summit or Jegs. Probably a lot cheaper than buying pre-made too.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Cnut Im still in the design phase open to plumbing ideas. I started this process considering hanging the fuel pump and reg on the shock bar very close to sending unit. I do this on my cutlass with a bar i welded across the frame the feed and return lines are very short. I have had great success doing it that way to date 50k miles logged. It makes plumbing very easy. But it does not look very tighty and my shock bar exhaust etc space is tight. I'm trying to consider the best route fwd to the drvers side firewall. I see what Rick is saying if I mount the pump and reg on the frame rail in front much lower but I end up on wrong side of car going fwd. Not sure how to cross over. My thought on the drain is yes it is exposed some but very little using a 90 degree fitting at the tank and the stainless flex hose would quickly hide it self along the frame and be fairly short feeding the pump if I located Mounting the reg and pump along the back cross member and or rear frame rail my thoughts are it might look cleaner and be easier to service on the side of the road. It also allows me to run the main pressure line fwd along the drivers frame inboard or out not sure at this point. Mine has an extra cross member in front of the original rear made from 1/4 thick 4 inch C channel welded across for an old trailer hitch.
Im also planning to install a jeep hitch below the frame so the pump could even hang done below cross member and still be protected. As stated I'm all open to plumbing route ideas at this point. Only parts locked in are the wellbro pump and vet regulator.

[Rick_L]

To me it wouldn't be a tough call to modify the floor. That can be put back stock too - but would YOU ever go back from the EFI engine? If a future owner wanted to, they could.

[chevynut]

but would YOU ever go back from the EFI engine? If a future owner wanted to, they could.

I think guys that talk about returning their cars to stock are kidding themselves...it'll never happen. How many 34 Fords were ever converted from hot rods to stock cars? I once kinda fretted over that on my Nomad, but once I got past it I was fine cutting the floor, tubs, and firewall. Certain things are worth leaving stock-looking, but to me a floor isn't one of them.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I'm not saying I will or would ever go back. I won't Carbs suck lol.... But the next guy could if he wants.

My rear floor and tire well are the only thing not rusted on the bottom of this nomad. If I take it out I want have any original metal left lol.

Rick I'm keeping it so original I'm even keep the PG service cover operational LOL.

Honestly when Im done you will be able to pull the 17 inch mags and put a set of white walls and hup caps if you like that style and have a very original looking mad. As long as you dont open the hood or crawl on the ground to look. Thats I all i mean. I might even do it myself from time to time just for fun.

Rick as for the big hole in the floor I thank my buddy & I got carried away with the new plasma toy we aquired. The new floor can probably be split in the middle and clear the trans with minimal modifcation. The spot weld lips at the toe board have to be removed to clear.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I use: http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/premium-black-nylon-race-hose/ You can have them made to your specs. Use PTFE hose though.

Thanks Nick lots of good info there explaining relation of AN to tube size. I bookmarked it for reference.

[chevynut]

Use PTFE hose though.

Actually teflon (PTFE) hose is not necessary for a fuel system. It's typically used where there's high pressure like in power steering or brake systems. It will work but it's more expensive than fuel hose, and the selection of end fittings is very limited. I used Russell stainless braided fuel hose for my flexible fuel lines from the frame to the engine. Everything else is stainless hardline.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fra-499462

This part will fit the drain hole. I'M 99.9% sure its 1/8 npt after seeing it as you guys suggested. The threads on this size pipe do appear to be fine thread just looking at them compare to real pipe lol.


If I do go this route I can build the entire fuel system with zero barbed fittings all AN connections. I will stick with summit as suggested. As for my main pressure line it may be ptfe not sure I get it built at the local hydro shop. Its rated to like 1200 psi and 350 F. Covered in stainless.

[chevynut]

I still think 1/8 NPT is going to be too small ID for a fuel line. ;)

Let us know what the ID is when you get it.

[Rick_L]

Regular PTFE line will build static electricity when used for fuel. If you want to use PTFE for fuel, get PTFE hose that is rated for fuel. I think it has a conductor in it that allows grounding to the fittings, and that won't allow the static to build.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

it fed the stock 265 just fine. Not sure why yourworried lol

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Besides 1/8 npt vs pump inlet fitting. I dont see an issue.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_51.jpg

[chevynut]

The one on the right looks quite a bit bigger....but it looks small to me too. ;)

Which is the pump inlet? What's the ID of both?

Sure, you'll get gas. But what happens when you go full throttle for a long run? You're going to starve your engine, imo. Your regulator isn't going to be able to compensate for it.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Pump is on left way smaller than 1/8 npt i dont need to measure. A 3/8 tube dont got 3/8 Id either and the difference in dia between the two is neg across that length anyway.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Maybe this will ease your worries.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-612170

[chevynut]

This chart shows that the pitch diameter of a 1/8" NPT is .363" at the small end. If you want to match a 3/8" SS tube with an ID of about .280" you would have to have a wall thickness at that first thread of .041". That's doable.

http://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/taper-pipe-threads.htm

If the fitting is made like that to match a -6AN hose, it should work fine. However, a "standard" 1/8" NPT fitting has an ID of only .187". That's what I thought we were talking about, since you said you were going to Lowes to get one. Like I said above, if you'd bore it out it should work.

I'd rather have a restriction on the outlet of my pump than at the inlet. If you get a restriction at the inlet it could cavitate at high flowrates. You can push fuel through a small hole faster than you can suck it. ;)

[NickP]

Regular PTFE line will build static electricity when used for fuel. If you want to use PTFE for fuel, get PTFE hose that is rated for fuel. I think it has a conductor in it that allows grounding to the fittings, and that won't allow the static to build.As an FYI, in regards to this good tidbit from Rick, I emailed Fragola regarding the concerns.Hi Nick, Yes it does. All of the PTFE hose we’ve carried for the last 3-4 years has had a carbon core. Please let me know if you need anything else. Have a good weekend Brint MclellanFragola Performance Systems888 West Queen StreetSouthington, CT 06489PH 866 337-2739 ext 15Email: Brintm@FragolaPerformanceSystems.com

[chevynut]

If the hose is braided stainless, I don't see why there's a need for a conductive core. The stainless grounds out the static buildup. If it has a cloth or nylon covering, it's a different issue. Like I said, most braided stainless fuel hose is rubber, not PTFE. They also take different fittings.

[Rick_L]

You'd think that at first thought.

But the warnings and recommendation are out there, as well as the product.

No personal experience, just relating what's out there.

Some people don't think the rubber is durable enough with ethanol contaminated fuel.

[chevynut]

I actually blew up an entire workbench full of about 5 gallons of acetone at work years ago. We had a sprayer plumbed in with a nylon hose to clean out photoresist from wafer spinners in the IC fab. I was spraying away, and all of a sudden the whole thing exploded in my face from a static spark. Luckily I had glassed and a chemical apron on, and the apron melted but the flames took all my facial hair off and burned my nose. We plumbed it with stainless braided PTFE hose after that and it never happened again.

It's probably a precautionary thing, imo. I never thought of ethanol attacking the rubber hoses but I thought it was made for ethanol fuel.

[Rick_L]

You hear so many stories about chemical attack and other bad things from ethanol in fuel - I think you have to take some with a grain of salt. Some problems are probably misdiagnosed. Also, who knows what kind of testing is done to rate a hose for suitability for a certain material? Who knows how close production material is to the specs or to what was tested? I'm talking high performance stuff, not industrial. And especially the second tier, price leader stuff.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I'm not sure what my cutlass has in it for the main feed. But its not rubber. The local hydralic shop built it. Its plastic or poly tubing for hydralic applications. It has crimp on compression fittings and is rated tob 1200 psi. It is also stainless braided. Perhaps it is PTFE. Guess I better check with them.

[chevynut]

I'm not sure which hose I used, Earl's or Russell, for my fuel lines. But both of them use a synthetic rubber liner in some of their hoses that is compatible with ethanol. The thing I don't like about this stuff is if you buy Earl's hoses, you have to use Earl's fittings and same with Russell. When you have hose laying around the shop with no box it's hard or impossible to tell whose hose it is. I also have some Aeroquip hose.

https://www.holley.com/products/plumbing/hose/
http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/hose/

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I was going to say GM still uses rubber of some kind because my 2002 truck has rubber lines on the pickup side of the filter regulator. They been there pest 13 years. And i could be wrong but i seem to recall the pressure line is not hardline it is something like PTFE I believe.

Cnut I got my summit cart full of russell diy and it aint to cheap either lol. I may have to recondsider the ones Nick linked. Compare cost anyway before I push the buy now button. Besides I'm thinking the pro's make a hole lot better hose than I will lol.

So Rick you never answered. Will gas gravity feed thru a 120 micron filter. Im reading that a standard pickup sock is 40 microns. I agree one does not need a pre filter but sense I have no sock pulling thru the drain hole I want that degree of protection. If I can remove the element all together I might do that if I can get some type of screen to put in the canister. I looked yesterday and it appears if the pump is mounted on back side of the trailer hitch then it will gravity feed to at least the bottom 2 inches of the tank or so. Sense the wagon tank is vertical I should be good. I dont plan on driving on empty to much so it should work well.

[Rick_L]

So Rick you never answered. Will gas gravity feed thru a 120 micron filter.

Didn't realize you asked. I think the quick answer is no. I always thought that the socks were in the 100-200 micron range rather than the 40 you stated. But I don't think this stuff is typically rated for the public.

Thing is, any of this not just the filter media or the size of the "hole". It's a matter of how much pressure drop through a hole or filter at a certain pressure rate. Another situation is the size of the pump. You can put a big pump on the system (that you might not need) and since it's a constant volume deal it can overwhelm the rest of the setup (fittings and filters) and get starved - where a smaller pump might be fine. Bottom line is anything that gives you a pressure drop at the pump inlet is going to at the very least shorten pump life. These pumps don't like any suction at all, it kills them relatively speaking.

[chevynut]

Rocky, I hate to pee all over your plans :), but why not go with an in-tank Walbro pump? You can get the whole unit from Tanks, Inc. and it will solve all of your flow problems. I think there's room above your tank for the fittings or you can recess it using their recess plate. The tank unit with pump is only $235 and the recess plate is $45. The fab work is pretty straightforward.

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=84/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd84.htm

That's what I would do in your case, assuming the pump unit extends long enough. If it doesn't, you could probably extend it yourself. I built a similar one for my Nomad. The nice thing is it has it's own baffle tray and the return line dumps right into the tray. It will be quieter, more reliable, and you don't have to worry about gravity feed, socks, inlet filters, pump location, cavitation, etc.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks but not headed down that path I like the external pump. Thanks all on the info reguarding the an hardware greatly appreciated.

[Rick_L]

Rocky I guess I don't follow your reasoning. Do you have an original tank? That's a liability too. A big one. A new tank with the pump in it is the way to go. If nothing else you can use more of the fuel in the tank.

C'nut, thinking more about the static electricity deal. The reason that just the braid won't work to dissipate it is that the static charge is on the inside diameter of the hose. And since the plastic is not a conductor, the charge doesn't get to the braid. One reason that the rubber hose doesn't have those problems is that it has carbon black in it - and that's conductive enough to keep it from happening.

Now, how big of a risk is it? And under what conditions? I have no idea. But someone thinks it's worth modifying the product.

[chevynut]

C'nut, thinking more about the static electricity deal. The reason that just the braid won't work to dissipate it is that the static charge is on the inside diameter of the hose.

But it can't do anything if there's no air in it. So why bother? I think it's either a sales gimmick or someone is paranoid. Has there ever been a case of a car burning up due to suspected static charge buildup INSIDE the fuel line? I doubt it.

It always made me wonder how you can run 12V INTO a fuel tank to a resistor for a sending unit. If it always had current running through it and the wiper broke the winding, wouldn't you get a spark across the gap? Maybe a small one, but still it would be a spark. What if something shorted out the winding? What if one of the wires on an in-tank pump came loose...wouldn't that create a helluva spark? Then why don't you hear of gas tanks exploding? I think it's because there's not enough oxygen in them to explode.

[chevynut]

Rocky I guess I don't follow your reasoning. Do you have an original tank? That's a liability too. A big one. A new tank with the pump in it is the way to go. If nothing else you can use more of the fuel in the tank.

I just took a close look at the stock wagon tank I have. Due to the spare tire well indentation, I think the tank is about 1/2 full vertically when it's probably only 1/4 full in volume. It's pretty narrow at the bottom and gets bigger up higher. The drain plug is about 1/4 of the way across from the driver's side of the tank, directly on the bottom. There is a fairly large plate welded to it for the drain plug, so if the 1/8" NPT fitting isn't at least the same ID as a -6AN line I would drill and tap it for a 1/4" NPT fitting. I think there's room to do that at least on my tank but I'm not sure how the plate is sealed. I don't see how he's not going to get all the fuel out of the tank with a fitting on the bottom of it.

To me the bigger issue is the noise, reliability, and visuals of an external pump. It really needs to be mounted fairly low to be able to use all the fuel in the tank, if that's an objective. To me a large fitting hanging down below the tank would be unsightly and prone to damage, though it should be functional.

If he keeps the tank around 1/4 full or more all the time and the sound doesn't bother him, it probably doesn't matter. The tall, deep wagon tank helps the situation a little on acceleration but I'm not sure it helps on a turn that much. A hard turn to the left may uncover the drain fitting if the fuel level is too low. It doesn't matter on a carbed engine, but it sure does on EFI. I wonder how well the fuel filter canister will act as a sump.

It might work just fine. I just think a better solution in an in-tank pump. The bottom line is that OEMs put pumps in the tanks nowadays for a good reason.

Here's a wagon tank:

http://cdn1.bobsclassicchevy.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/800x800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/G/T/GT573.jpg

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mrkYxlZoEr7jV9KLziIpjRg.jpg

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Cnut I went with russell hose and fittings for the intake side. Hope they work with these fittings in the regulator kit I bought from speedway http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS1-Fuel-Filter-Fuel-Regulator-Kit,41791.html

Even with intank pump still requires plumbing to and from regulator. The noise of the external is more meth than reality. My intank truck pump sings way louder than my external wellbro. Especially when I visit your neck of the woods. I carry a spare pump for long trips should it ever fail. I agree the fitting sticking down might cause a hazard for damage I need to look at that closer. I went with a small joes racing filter http://www.summitracing.com/parts/JOE-42406 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/JOE-42406instead) instead of the big canister. It has a 160 micron screen not really a filter. I hope its an fittings are also compatable with russell

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

For the record I even considered having a custom tank built to fit inside the spare tub. I dont have the link handed but a guy has a online service you give him the drawing and he builds them any shape size you want. Not sure how much fuel would fit in the spare tire space but I considered it when I was still looking at Cnuts C4 rear kits.

found link to custom tanks http://www.boydwelding.com/

[chevynut]

I think you're a little too hung up on keeping your spare tire well. ;) What are you going to use it for?

It looks like the Speedaway regulator doesn't take any fittings in the inlet side...you just use hose clamps for both the 3/8" and 5/16" hoses you'll need. As far as fitting compatibility, they should all be compatible. It's where the hose end fitting attaches to the hose that compatibility issues arise.

I can't even hear the pump in my Duramax truck tank or any of our cars. There's an easy fix for noise from an external pump....use loud mufflers. ;)

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

The vet reg uses QD GM efi fittings. The speedway kit has the adapters from efi QD to an. in and out. Yes I could just use rubber hose and clamps with dorman qd hose fittings already have them use them on my cutlass but I discovered the kit and also found an fittings for the pump. That's why I said I can do entire setup front to back with an fittings no barbs required. I also found a single qd to an fitting to connect to corvette fuel rail line on motor from the company nick linked to. If this diy hose works out I might just use it for pressure side. I still have option to have the local shop make the line also.

Spare tire well will be tool box with spare fuel pump lol & maybe house 6x9 speakers or sub wolf not sure yet. Spare tire for long cross country trips will be in matching interior bag thrown in back.

[chevynut]

I see now what those blue fittings are for. ;)

The hose ends are pretty easy to install yourself.

[JT56]

But it can't do anything if there's no air in it. So why bother? I think it's either a sales gimmick or someone is paranoid. Has there ever been a case of a car burning up due to suspected static charge buildup INSIDE the fuel line? I doubt it.

What if one of the wires on an in-tank pump came loose...wouldn't that create a helluva spark? Then why don't you hear of gas tanks exploding? I think it's because there's not enough oxygen in them to explode.

You can buy oxygenated fuels...but most people who run them have external pumps!

[JT56]

There's an easy fix for noise from an external pump....use loud mufflers. ;)[/QUOTE]

LOL

[chevynut]

You can buy oxygenated fuels...but most people who run them have external pumps!

All of our fuel is oxygenated (ethanol). I've never heard of anyone having a gas tank explode due to fuel lines or in-tank pumps.

Question of safety If submerging the pump in liquid gasoline is safe because the liquid does not explode, what if your tank is getting empty? Is it not as safe then?


My question exactly. I recently took an electric fuel pump apart because it wasnt working. The fuel actually flows through the windings and brushes of the pump which is actually just a tiny motor. I cannot believe anyone would invent such a device. When the tank is almost empty it is full of explosive vapors. The tiny fuel pump itself is sealed on each end by crimping the outer casing against o-rings. If the top o-ring were to fail and the fuel was at a level below thw top of the pump, the pump motor would spark when turned on. I am going to go read up on intank fuel pump explosions and see just how common it is.

The almost empty tank is not technically full of explosive vapor - the air, or oxygen supply, is probably far too low to create an appropriate mixture. In fact, if the cap has not been removed, the fumes should all be gasoline and no air/oxygen at all, due to modern sealed fuel systems developed to reduce emissions of volatiles. Still, I agree that it seems scary, especially when you have to work in an opened fuel tank to replace or repair the pump! human (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Huw_Powell) 20:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Most flames can't travel through a gap of less than 1/4 inch wide between surfaces unless they are already really hot. I've done experiments on this. You have to have the fuel to air mixture just right. Considering how small the hole in the o-ring would be, it's highly unlikely that the flame could travel beyond the insides of the pump. Plus, the voltage going through the motor is on the order of 1,000 times less than the voltage going through your spark plug. You're not going to get a strong spark. You're more likely to have this happen if you had someone smoking while trying to fill up a tank. The filler stem might be big enough to allow a flame to backflash into the tank. Smilla0 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Smilla0&action=edit&redlink=1) 04:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I designed fuel pumps at Ford for 10 years. The explosive nature of a fuel tank is not a fact due to the low amount of 0xygen in the tank. All cars have the same "design" fuel pump (a small motor turning a device - usually a turbine or gerotor). However, this is one reason why you turn off your vehicle when filling it and DO NOT go back into your car until the fill is complete. The likelyhood of generating a spark (from the interior of your car) goes up dramatically. A static spark at the fillerneck is NOT something you want to happen. I have seen gas station videos - believe me.... I am an auto mechanic who also has a chemistry background. The reason electric, tank- mounted fuel pumps do not cause explosions is that the concentration of fuel vapors is too high to allow an explosive mixture. The volatile (which in this context refers to a tendency to evaporate) nature of gasoline causes fuel vapors to take up any empty space as the fuel tank is emptied. Even if you completely empty a tank, open its access ports, and allow it to sit open, the concentration of vapors INSIDE the tank will still be too high to explode. Now, OUTSIDE the tank is a different story, and for this reason, one must use caution when performing any sort of repair or maintenance to a fuel tank, regardless of the type of pump used on the vehicle.

[JT56]

I was referring to the non ethanol fuel. This is spec sheet for Leaded Fuel that is Oxygenated. Both the sender and pump are grounded. When the electrons cant flow, no current. Would be interesting to fully understand that.

SPECIFICATION SHEET FOR VP 113

(Typical Values) Specific Gravity: .719 @ 60°F

Lead: Yes

Oxygenated: Yes

Color: Green

Motor Octane: 108.5

Research Octane: 117.5

R+M/2: 113

Reid Vapor Pressure: 7.96

Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+

Distillation:
10% evap @ 135.7°F

50% evap @ 188.8°F

90% evap @ 225.7°F

E.P. @ 2462.9°F

Availability: Sealed Drums

Rev: 02/07

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Wow and to think all I really wanted to know is the thread dia of the drain plug in a trifive lol. Carry on I did not mean to hijack my hi jack lol...

[JT56]

Sorry Rockytopper...we should start a new thread for this.

[chevynut]

Both the sender and pump are grounded.

It doesn't matter. If there's current running through them and you break the circuit, you'd get a spark. In fact, you'd get NO spark if it wasn't grounded.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Sorry Rockytopper...we should start a new thread for this.

JT we left the drain hole plug thread dia discussion several days ago lol. It is now open game for what ever topic it ends up or never ends lol. I'm still learning....carry on for real I could not speak "an fittings" now I,m dang near a spirt on the topic already. And Cnut like Steve Harvey does guest on his show got me past my fears of diy race hose all is good!!!!