Hooker LS Longtube Headers for Chevynut's C4 frame.

[WagonCrazy]

Learn by doing...(translation...learn from your mistakes, and advise others how to avoid them).

Hooker 2293's are nice long tube steel headers that can be bought at Summitracing.com fairly cheap. These are made for the "Unisteer" rack and pinion setup that bolts to a STOCK tri-5 frame.
As such, they are made with as "spread out tubing" between Cyl 1 and 3.
So not knowing that, I figured I'd order them and use them with my Chevynut C4 frame.
They fit, but the configuration of the #1 tube gets IN THE WAY of where your steering shaft needs to go as it points to the C4 rack.
To fix mine, I just notched and re-welded that up to allow the shaft to go past the #1 header, but its' not the right way to do things on a $100K Nomad build. :( I may come back later and swap for different headers, but for now...they will work.
Some pics:

4791 4792

So I suggest using Hookers 2292 long length headers instead. All 4 of the tubes (both drivers and passenger sides) angle back consistently, and the #1 tube should by tighter against the block, thus staying out of the way of the steering shaft/C4 rack geometry needed.

4793

[Rick_L]

Looks to me like you wouldn't need totally different headers - just a properly rerouted #1 tube to replace the notch.

[chevynut]

Paul, can you lower the steering shaft and use a longer column like I did or extend your column shaft? Seems like you should have had plenty of room for the steering shaft. Here's a pic of that setup when it was here in my shop.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4794&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4795&stc=1

[Fladiver64]

Thanks for the clarification, seems counter intuitive to not order the headers "designed" for rack and pinion steering, but your photos clearly indicate the problems. I will order the 2292 and see how the routing works on my frame.

[WagonCrazy]

Post pics when you get them installed Mike. Would be good to confirm the 2292s are better than 2293s.

Rick,
I could reconfigure the 2293 tube #1 and 3, because both look wrong in there. I just dont have easy access to a tube bender.

[Rick_L]

Use premade mandrel bends.

[WagonCrazy]

Yes, that would be the easy part. The more difficult aspect is the lower cut location, where it needs to weld to the existing tube. That #3 lower tube is sandwiched up against the #1 tube down low, and there would be a portion that i cant get a weld to. Instant leak and it would look like a hack job.

[chevynut]

Thanks for the clarification, seems counter intuitive to not order the headers "designed" for rack and pinion steering,

Fladiver, keep in mind that the Unisteer rack and pinion bolts to the REAR of the stock tri5 crossmember and sits where the drag link normally would sit. So the #1 tube isn't involved. The C4 rack is in FRONT of the crossmember, and the steering shaft has to clear the exhaust and engine mount. I usually tell guys to work out their exhaust first while taking into account the steering shaft, then select a column length that works last. That's based on experience doing my own. In retrospect I wish I'd used Doug's headers instead of my Earle Williams headers. I think they work better with this setup and the #7 tube doesn't make that weird bend. I've recommended them to other guys with BBCs.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4818&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4819&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4820&stc=1

[chevynut]

By the way, this issue is no different regardless of whose C4 frame you use. The front-steer rack is nice for oilpan clearance, but it presents a minor issue with steering shaft routing and exhaust. Fortunately there are good solutions.

[Rick_L]

Wagon Crazy, isn't the access for welding the same if you have a tube bender or use pre-bent pieces?

Chevynut's comments are spot on, but help future users more than you.

The problem here is how to recover from a less than good situation.

[NickP]

If you find that the Hooker units don't quite work out, get with AME and review their headers. On a SBC, the #2 tube is positioned up and over creating a nice pocket and clearance for steering shaft. They are not inexpensive however but a very nice piece I understand the BBC units fair much the same in design.

[chevynut]

If you find that the Hooker units don't quite work out, get with AME and review their headers. On a SBC, the #2 tube is positioned up and over creating a nice pocket and clearance for steering shaft.

Nick, any idea if those AME headers will clear the top of the C4 k-member uprights? Seems like that could be an issue.

[NickP]

I'll post a pic or two tomorrow and maybe with some dimensions taken we can determine that.

[Bitchin'57]

With no flange of any kind on the collectors, how are you guys connecting your exhaust system to the collectors on the Hooker 2292 and 2293? Also, does the 2292 have O2 bung(s)? I can't find a pic where it shows it has them.

[Rick_L]

I can't speak to what the people at Hooker/Holley are thinking.

Maybe they are thinking that the location of the 02 bung is build dependent. But putting a bung on a coated header will locally destroy the coating. So if you need an O2 bung, you should order without coating.

There are several ways of connecting the head pipe to the collector. The old school way is a flange. Two newer school ways are V clamps and ball/socket clamps. Again coating might or would be an issue depending on the choice.

That's also one of the disadvantages of "off the shelf" headers as opposed to "semi custom". As an example, if you buy Earle Williams headers they will do bungs, flanges, etc. as you wish then send them out for coating.

[Bitchin'57]

I can't speak to what the people at Hooker/Holley are thinking.

Maybe they are thinking that the location of the 02 bung is build dependent. But putting a bung on a coated header will locally destroy the coating. So if you need an O2 bung, you should order without coating.

There are several ways of connecting the head pipe to the collector. The old school way is a flange. Two newer school ways are V clamps and ball/socket clamps. Again coating might or would be an issue depending on the choice.

That's also one of the disadvantages of "off the shelf" headers as opposed to "semi custom". As an example, if you buy Earle Williams headers they will do bungs, flanges, etc. as you wish then send them out for coating.
Thanks, Rick. That settles it, I'll buy the painted 2292 headers, weld on the V-clamp flanges and the O2 bung, and get them ceramic coated locally.

[NickP]

Nick, any idea if those AME headers will clear the top of the C4 k-member uprights? Seems like that could be an issue.I think they might have a good chance of that. Also might offer better clearance for steering shaft and stuff.http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2283636/24510297/411692812.jpghttp://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2283636/24510297/411692813.jpg

[WagonCrazy]

I'll buy the painted 2292 headers, weld on the V-clamp flanges and the O2 bung, and get them ceramic coated locally.

Yep. That's precisely my plan as well for mine.

[chevynut]

Nick, those don't look like LS headers. :confused:

[Rick_L]

That's because they aren't. :eek:

Do the V band clamps require welding? I was under the impression they didn't.

[NickP]

Nick, those don't look like LS headers. :confused:HUH!? Where did that come from? Not. Rick_L I don't know if you were directing that to me or not but the one SS Header above the AME with the VBand clamps will require welding in two locations - One at the collector and one at the exhaust pipe extending back. The Clamp joins the two.

[Rick_L]

The question was directed at anyone who knew, thanks for the answer.

I thought maybe they used a collet type arrangement rather than welding. Seems like I've seen that somewhere. Or maybe it's wishful thinking.

[Bitchin'57]

That's because they aren't. :eek:

Do the V band clamps require welding? I was under the impression they didn't.
The V-band clamps do not require any welding. But, the two v-band flanges do.:)

[chevynut]

Paul, any idea why the 2292 Hooker headers have a flat plate welded to #3 tube? I wonder how they expect you to make the collector connection on the coated headers.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5073&stc=1

[WagonCrazy]

I have no idea why there is a flat plate on #3 collector...

I never noticed it on the pic until you said something here.

Might be a Hooker Headers nameplate they tack weld onto that collector tube. Seems mine had a plate like that and I removed it.

[chevynut]

The Hooker nameplate is on #1 tube.

[WagonCrazy]

Did some Google searching of Hooker 2292 and 2293 images...
The pics are a bit small, so when I enlarge them, they show their low rez...

here's a 2292, notice no flat plate on #3 collector in this pic.
5075

And heres 2293, notice no flat plate on the #3 collector in this pic either...
5076

So moral of the story here is BUYER BEWARE. Check with the vendor you are purchasing these from to get a good idea of what you are buying. That 2292 image you showed above does seem to have a flat area at the top of #3 collector, but it may be a reflection of something caught during the snap of the photo, thus providing a giant head fake on "what you see is what you get".

Summit's website isn't very helpful on this either. A call to them to ask about it wouldn't be a bad idea, if one was going to order it.
Would save returning them later on...

[chevynut]

Paul, it's not a reflection. I have a set in the shop right now and it's a flat plate welded to the tube. No idea what it's there for.

[NickP]

To clarify an earlier image I posted (SBC Headers from AME), [I have been out of pocket] their product for LS hooks over the top in a similar way as does the second tube. I don't have their LS tubes here however, I may have some at later date.

[NickP]

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5161&stc=1 LS HEADERS from AME

[Bitchin'57]

Paul, it's not a reflection. I have a set in the shop right now and it's a flat plate welded to the tube. No idea what it's there for.
Clearance for the power steering box?

[chevynut]

Bitchin you're probably correct. Wonder why they couldn't have bent the tube differently. I had a set of BBC headers that cleared the box.

[GTOFBOD]

Just thought I would share my experience with the hooker ls swap longtubes. They came coated (black "darkside" coating), they do have the flat spot on the primary and come with o2 bungs welded in place. The coating left a lot to be desired, it scratches very easily, and actually had spots where it had worn off in shipping. I actually returned them becasuse I thought they were painted, and I have bought headers both coated and uncoated in the past. Also, one of the collectors was dented in a bit on the first set. I had ordered them from summit, and they swapped them out no problem. Customer service basically told me the darkside coating wasn't very durable lol. As long as the fit is good though, I'll be happy.

[Bluegrass Trifive]

Fladiver, keep in mind that the Unisteer rack and pinion bolts to the REAR of the stock tri5 crossmember and sits where the drag link normally would sit. So the #1 tube isn't involved. The C4 rack is in FRONT of the crossmember, and the steering shaft has to clear the exhaust and engine mount. I usually tell guys to work out their exhaust first while taking into account the steering shaft, then select a column length that works last. That's based on experience doing my own. In retrospect I wish I'd used Doug's headers instead of my Earle Williams headers. I think they work better with this setup and the #7 tube doesn't make that weird bend. I've recommended them to other guys with BBCs.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4818&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4819&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4820&stc=1
How long is your steering column CNut? I'm starting to look at them now.

[chevynut]

Bluegrass, my steering column is a Flaming River 35" one. It's the longest they make and I just used it to get the steering link forward enough to clear the #1 tube. Depending on the design of the headers you may not need it that long. I forgot that in the pic of the blue frame with the BBC we set the engine back quite a bit to lower it behind the rack. Those are Doug's headers on that one...mine are Earle Williams'.

[chevynut]

Today I bolted a set of Hooker Super Comp 2289's onto an LS mock-up engine set up in one of our C4 chassis. The 2289s are made for an LS swap into a 68-72 Chevelle, same as the Kooks application that another customer used. We decided to try them on this frame because they look like the #1 and #3 tubes were tucked in nicely and don't have the flat plate on the #3 tube. Also, they're quite a bit less costly than the $1200 stainless Kooks headers.

Everything looks great and there's a lot of clearance, but we do have one issue with them. The driver's side collector is just about perfectly positioned and is about 3/8" below the top of the frame. For some reason, the passenger side collector is about 3/8" ABOVE the top of the frame. It's hard to see it in the pic from the rear, but the angle is sitting on the frame on the driver's side and on top of the collector on the passenger side. The lighting makes it difficult to see the problem, but you can see the difference in height. Also, this frame has a 2" front drop instead of our standard 3" so the engine is sitting lower than it would in the 3" front drop frame. Seems like the Chevelle is a bit shorter vertically than a tri5.

I think this could be corrected by pushing the collector down and bending the header slightly, but I don't know if it can be done with ceramic coated headers without damaging the ceramic coating. I actually did this with my BBC Earle Williams headers to make them fit my application better.

One other issue might be the positioning of the O2 sensor bungs. I am not positive there's enough clearance between the collector and frame. It's weird that Holley tells you to put the sensors pointing UPWARD at a 10 degree angle or more, but Hooker (owned by Holley) doesn't do it on their headers.

Here's some pics of the 2289's.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/hok-2289-1hkr_w.jpg?rep=False

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5389&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5390&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5391&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5392&stc=1

[40delivery]

why won't the 2292 clear for stock frame with column shift, they anyone know,wanted to use with my LS6 with 700r4. Does anyone else make longtubes for 55-57 besides Doug's shorty

[40delivery]

that flat spot on #3 is for LS motor with stock frame and stock or 605 steering box they claim you cannot use column shift with these headers

[Rick_L]

One other issue might be the positioning of the O2 sensor bungs. I am not positive there's enough clearance between the collector and frame. It's weird that Holley tells you to put the sensors pointing UPWARD at a 10 degree angle or more, but Hooker (owned by Holley) doesn't do it on their headers.

I received my Hooker 2292 headers today. They had O2 bungs placed on a horizontal plane as you describe. The driver side header has the bung on the outboard side, and the passenger side bung is on the inboard side. ???? I was actually expecting them not to have any bungs, as the images on the Holley website don't show any. I may have even called to verify that.

My Williams headers have the bungs at 10 degrees above horizontal as Holley and GM suggest. And inboard.

Looks like the Chevelle headers have plenty of clearance for the O2 sensor and wiring on the outboard side. I guess we'll see what works and works best when I mock everything up.

I ordered the headers uncoated because of thinking I'd have to weld O2 bungs, but I'll also have to weld flanges to connect them to the connecting pipes. Though I possibly could have gotten away with welding the V-clamp flanges, as they'd be covered up. Oh well, I'm hearing that Hooker's coating isn't all that great anyway.

My headers also have the "flat spot" discussed. It's sure ugly. I hope it's needed for steering box clearance. I will say this, the general workmanship on these Hooker headers is not nearly as good as my Williams SBC headers.

We'll see what's next once I start mocking up the installation.

[Rick_L]

Well I wasn't paying enough attention last night when I said one O2 bung was inboard and one outboard. They are both outboard, just like the photos posted of the 2289 Chevelle headers.

I now also remember why the O2 bungs are generally placed inboard on long tube headers. That's where the factory puts them, so the wire harness won't reach the outboard side. Often you need a harness extension with long tube headers even if the bungs are inboard.

Does anyone here use a wide band O2 sensor? Do they use the same bung and have the same threads as a factory narrow band sensor? Just wondering if I should just install another pair of bungs for the factory O2s in the correct place, and with them above horizontal as recommended. Then rather than removing the outboard bungs and welding a repair, just plug them and have them available for a wide band sensor, for use on a chassis dyno, etc.

[chevynut]

I have a WB O2 sensor and it uses the same bung as a regular one. I put mine in on the inboard side of the collectors, angled up as Holley recommends. The one I don't use will be plugged. Not sure how to decide which side to put it on. :confused:

[corbinthompson@ATT.NET]

I am adding a LS7 to 1956 Chevy Belair, Looking for the right long tube headers?

Automatic transmission on the column
427/570. LS7 with 4L75E transmission
power steering 500 box.
Stock frame
I am looking for headers and wanted some opinions.
https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/performance/powertrain/engines/01-images/427-570/cp-engine-product-gallery-LS427-570.jpg?imwidth=960

[redmanf1]

Great info...