Lower rear qtr patch panels which ones to buy?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I'm getting close to pulling the body off my nomad to start metal repair and complete the frame. I am planning to install a complete front floor assy. I've seen no complaints on there fit weather its US made or off shore. I have seen that the sherman floors do not have inner rockers installed. So I'm planning to purchase the complete off shore brand unless you guys can tell me different.

The nomad also needs the front lower Qtrs patched. I want to purchase a right & left for the sedan and cut the lower 8 inches off to repair mine. Any suggestions on which brand or source fit better. My door jams are solid i just need and outter and bottom section and partial fender lip.
Thanks much
Rocky

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_86.jpg

[chevynut]

You're right on as far as going with a complete assembled floor. IMO I would go with the taiwan floor from Goldstar, or whoever makes them. They're only around $900 and don't appear hard to install. The sherman floors don't have the EDP coating in the braces, and I think their floors are made from two halves while the taiwan floors are one-piece. Nomads used the sedan floors, not the HT floors.

I can't help you on which quarter patch is best, but it looks like you have a pretty solid car there. Just look the quarter over really good so you don't later regret patching it when it should have been replaced.

[NickP]

You're right on as far as going with a complete assembled floor. IMO I would go with the taiwan floor from Goldstar, or whoever makes them. They're only around $900 and don't appear hard to install. The sherman floors don't have the EDP coating in the braces, and I think their floors are made from two halves while the taiwan floors are one-piece. Nomads used the sedan floors, not the HT floors.I can't help you on which quarter patch is best, but it looks like you have a pretty solid car there. Just look the quarter over really good so you don't later regret patching it when it should have been replaced.The Goldstar units I have installed have fit like a glove.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks guys. I was pretty sure about the floor but I'm curious about the patch panels if any match that area any better than the other.

So far the nomad is looking pretty solid. I have stripped the interior panels and the window channels look very good as do all door edges etc. I opened up a inner rocker and the outters look very solid. I have sanded the entire car done to original paint or raw metal and so far I'm feeling really lucky.

[MP&C]

Rocky, some other rust prone areas to check, above the wheels, look for deep pitting directly above the tire area, under the tail light area between the pinch welds. If you start seeing problems other than just what has been obvious thus far, a full quarter replacement may be a better choice. Especially given that a seam in the top area of the quarter (higher crown) helps to hold the shape better, a seam through the middle of the quarter is low crown and quick to lose it's shape..

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Robert I will inspect the areas closer to see how they look. Thanks for the heads up.
Rocky

[Hotroddder]

I think there is only one mfg of the patch panels, sold by many vendors. I don't believe GS makes patch panels for the quarters, they are made by Sherman?

[oldschool57]

The sherman floors don't have the EDP coating in the braces, and I think their floors are made from two halves while the taiwan floors are one-piece.

Thats interesting to know. I have always wondered about the split down the middle and spot welded together full floor pans. It looks rather cheesy to me especially when you can get the one piece ones.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I think there is only one mfg of the patch panels, sold by many vendors. I don't believe GS makes patch panels for the quarters, they are made by Sherman?

classic chevy list to different parts one says "BEST" exact fit the other says good quality patch panel there is about a 70$ difference in the price listed.

I wonder which brands they are selling?

[chevynut]

I wonder which brands they are selling?

If they are black they're probably Golden Star. If they are bare metal, probably Sherman. I'd get the "best" one.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

If they are black they're probably Golden Star. If they are bare metal, probably Sherman. I'd get the "best" one.

That is the issue, classic doesn't list the brand and they are much higher priced than Jegs. Jegs says their qtr is a Sherman part and their is 70$ cheaper than classic. I plan to buy the floor also from Jegs who offer it for 995 with free shipping and classic list same floor for 1310. I just want to know if Sherman brand is the so called best fit.

Also many folks on the other site replied that it want fit a nomad at all. Some vendors state that it fits the bottom 9 inches of a nomad which is all I need for the repair at the wheel opening.

[chevynut]

I plan to buy the floor also from Jegs who offer it for 995 with free shipping

"http://www.jegs.com/images/jegs/Oversize_Fee.gif $69.99"

Here's a better deal than Jegs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1957-Chevy-Sedan-Post-Bel-Air-FULL-Floor-Pan-Golden-Star-New-/331096914468?fits=Year%3A1957|Make%3AChevrolet&hash=item4d16e9fa24&vxp=mtr

I don't know how the wheelwell differs between a Nomad and the others in the bottom 8". Here's a Sherman part:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherman-727-56R-Passenger-Side-Quarter-Panel-Front-Section-/311422903489?fits=Year%3A1955|Make%3AChevrolet&hash=item48824064c1&vxp=mtr

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000080i~Z5Z5Z56749~P 105.00~~~~S4FJ0VOR1J20873289014a~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000 080i

If it was me I'd cut it behind the door jamb about 3/4"-1".

[Rick_L]

If any vendor lists sheetmetal as less than "best quality" you know it's a POS and to stay away. With sheetmetal, even the "best" stuff usually has some problem to deal with.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks C'nut for the heads up on better deals.




If any vendor lists sheetmetal as less than "best quality" you know it's a POS and to stay away. With sheetmetal, even the "best" stuff usually has some problem to deal with.

Fully understood Rick. I am just trying to determine that the Sherman panel is the brand that is the AKA"BEST" fit. I do not wish to pay classic chevys inflated prices. I would also like to confirm it will fit a nomad in the lower area before I buy any of them.

Rocky

[Rick_L]

I don't know about the particular panel you need. But the rep on quarter panel patch panels is worse than full quarters as far as crisp details and authentic shape.

I suppose the good news is that a small panel is easier for the home body guy to reshape into something useable using tools you have or can afford.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Bingo Rick. I'm that guy . Skilless & tooless. :)

[chevynut]

I have always wondered why Sherman doesn't make 55 Nomad quarter panel sections, like the wheelwell cutouts, since they have the tooling to do so. I'm assuming they could just stick a smaller piece of sheetmetal in their dies and make various parts.

[chevynut]

Rocky, short of buying a whole quarter panel, I think you're stuck with the section for a 55 sedan/HT. If you look at the picture below, it looks like the wheelwell starts out about the same and may be the same quite a ways up. I would go ahead and buy the section and see how close it fits. I would use as much of the original quarter panel lip as possible, and graft the new section in. I would NOT try to use a lot of the new panel's lip, just what you need. Also, as i said I would cut behind the door and not try to use the jamb either.

http://www.autopartsdb.net/assets/images/ProductImg/T/TF400576.JPG


http://www.autopartsdb.net/assets/images/ProductImg/T/TF400570.JPG

http://www.autopartsdb.net/assets/images/ProductImg/T/TF400551.JPG

http://www.classicindustries.com/product/1955/tri-five/parts/tf400551.html

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I've been looking at the same pictures and agree it looks very close in the lower area.

The area needing repair is approx. 12 to 14 inches long and about 6 inches high on both sides of car.
My first thought on a patch panel is the first picture below. Assuming the sedan panel is off more than expected the second picture comes to mind for a possible patch. The third picture shows the fender lip and it is solid all the way down to the bottom corner. I would welcome input on your thoughts about this.
Would you make the patch an almost continues curve going forward and back down in front or more like I'm showing with straight cuts and big curves in the corners? OR?

Thanks
Rocky

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/PATCH1.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/PATCH2.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/image2.jpg

[chevynut]

I would first strip all the paint to the door jamb, then cut away only what shows holes on the outside, then I would look inside and cut away anything that's pitted. Cut all the way back to good metal.

You're doing it right by keeping the lines perpendicular to the rocker, and making large curves. If you try to angle it, it will be harder to fix, in my experience. So straight up from the rocker, large curve, and straight back to the fenderwell. Then I'd come down in front of the lip as far as you can.

You can do it! ;)

[Rick_L]

The curve at the corner of the panel is the way to go. A square corner will end up like a knot in wood.

Don't try to contour the patch at the wheel lip like in photo #2. Cutting and then welding at a diagonal across that formed edge will cause a nightmare. It will also accentuate any deviations in contour that the patch panel has compared to what it should be.

Judging from what is already rusted all the way through in the photos, I think your patch will need to be at least as big as the area that's already had the paint removed.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I recieved the patch panels today. Pretty happy with them. They appear to fit pretty good in the area I plan to patch. As noted many times the door edge to wheel well opening on these patches are off by a 1/4 to 3/8 to long.
I also purchased the slip over rocker and it appears to fit the small section area I need to patch.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_92.jpg

[Rick_L]

Forget the door jamb unless it's rusted, especially if the panel is too long. Cut all those flanges off and butt weld too.

Here's what Cnut said earlier:

You're doing it right by keeping the lines perpendicular to the rocker, and making large curves. If you try to angle it, it will be harder to fix, in my experience. So straight up from the rocker, large curve, and straight back to the fenderwell. Then I'd come down in front of the lip as far as you can.

It's excellent advice.

What's up with the "slip over" rocker? Why would you want to use that? It's the wrong thing to do. Send it back.

[LEE T]

Have you looked at the area from inside the car? The rust on the bottom may go all the way to the baffle thats in the rocker panel. I find it easier to get close up pictures of the inside of doors and 1/4s and examine the pictures.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I have already cut open the passenger side inner rocker and hit it hard with a wire brush. From first look the rocker is appearing to be solid except for one area that is directly over a small brace or baffle inside the rocker that is near the rear connection to the qtr. I only plan to cut 2 inch long patch area out of the slip over piece. It was much cheaper than buying a complete rocker for the small area. Yes I could have just hand formed the patch but the time involved verses the cheap rocker to just cut much easier and much faster. When I get the floor cut out and the rockers completely open I will determine then if I need to just replace the entire rocker. Sense I am a rookie and have read that replacement rockers dont fit well out of the box I am going to try and avoid a full replacement if possible. The drivers side has no visible signs of rust on the outter side but will only know when I get the floors out. I plan to start the lower qtrs now before I cut the floor out.
Rocky

[Rick_L]

Good plan with the slip on rocker.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Finally got a chance to strart the qtr patch. I'm pretty happy with it so far. Its not perfect but it looks pretty close. The curve contour doesn't match the factory rocker it needs to be a little tighter radius. Similar to what Robert showed on his wagon with a aftermarket rocker.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_124.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_125.jpg

[Rick_L]

Looks like a typical aftermarket panel contour on the wheel cutout profile. Some careful shaping and filling should make it right. It will be some work but if you put enough smart work in it, you'll get there.

[chevynut]

Looks pretty good to me! A little hammer and dolly work and it will be a perfect fit.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I started working dents out while I have it open. I started working the deep crease about 10 inches above patch. I have no prior experience with dolly and hammer. I did manage to get most of the crease out but realized i created a high spot. When trying to deal with it I created a oil can. I was checking the panel horzontally with a straight edge. This evening I bring home a contour or ships curve and check both sides. I'm way in on the drivers side compared to the passenger. The panel is not routed but rough to the point it should be replaced. But its good practice for me and if I can't save it no real loss. But I'm seeing this isn't going to be easy to keep it even decent looking. Not sure what to use as a reference point. The inner panels on the rear qtrs that have rubber seals dont fit the qtrs very well. How close are these when perfect? The rust areas vertically are the dents lol. Its rough.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_127.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_128.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_129.jpg

[chevynut]

Rocky, with what little rust you're dealing with I would be very hesitant to replace that panel, unless there's a lot of damage on it. Replacing the panel has it's own drawbacks and you can create even bigger headaches if you don't know what you're doing and you're not careful. And it's a lot of work.

If I was you I'd patiently work those dents out and deal with the stretched metal before you hack that panel off. It really doesn't look that bad.

[bsa_bob2]

I have chopped a lot of tops on streetrods and kustoms ..{myself}. One thing an ole pro shared with me-50 some years ago was this. "It doesn't matter how big of a panel you use.,always cut out the least amount of original steel that you can, Throw the left over on the shelf . you might use it somewhere else. especially if it has good stamped reliefs in it. bob s

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Ive been pertenting(learning) to be a body man for three days now first time using hammer and dollys. I thought I was doing all the good but realized the panel had a bulge not sure if it was from previous work or something I created and Ive been chasing an oil can ever sense that caused me to loose my temper and take it out on the panel. Ive cooled down and re grouped slowly tapping it out I thank maybe it can be saved if someone one would save it from me lol.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Anyone ever use a shrinking disc? Ive been chasing a oil can and so far its still ahead if me.
I believe when a tapped out the deep grove the oil can started. When measuring the passenger qtr with a straight edge it appears to be straight from the door edge all the way to the bottom rear edge of the slide window top to bottom of the panel. The drivers side I'm working appears to have a crown in it were all that mess is in the picture

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_131.jpg

[Rick_L]

I have a shrinking disc and occasionally use it.

From looking at the photos, and I know they can be misleading - I think that you need to raise some low spots before you do any shrinking. Otherwise the whole panel will be low. Thing is I can't tell how low they are from a photo. Once the whole panel is straighter, but with a few highs, then you can shrink. You may even need to use a shot bag and hammer to get those low spots up.

If you would post a photo with a straight edge held to the panel showing how close you are to straight, then maybe we can be more specific.

The shrinking disc is not a silver bullet.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Here are pictures of the panel prior to me doing any hammer or dolly work. All that has been done to this point is cutting the routed part off the bottom. If you look at page 3 of this post you will note the contour gage. I copied the contour on my passenger side at the door edge. I can move the gage all along the panel back to the wheel opening and it maintains this shape. Refer to other picture with gage on drivers side and the contour is quite different note 1/2 inch gap at bottom. Both are close to same at door edge but moving aft towards the wheel opening you can see the panel has a much higher crown in it top to bottom. You could say the bottm is in but it can't be and still align with the existing lower rocker edge. it is already out from cutting the bottom of panel in this picture it needs to go in from here.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_124.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_125.jpg


This is a picture of the panel after I did many hours of trying to remove the dents. When I put a straight edge on it I realized I had a bulge. As stated I can take a 4 ft long straight edge and place it anywhere on the passenger qtr panel up and down running horzontal and it lays flat on the panel all the way back to the center of the wheel opening. Not so on the drivers side. It is as if it has a higher crown in it both ways up down and fwd aft.
This is after I worked the panel first time I noted this crown. The straight edge should be flat all the way to the wheel opening if passenger side is correct. It appears to be undamaged. It also is crowned up higher. Both areas would oil can in and out. I could push on one and it pops out the other or vise versus.


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_133.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_132.jpg


This picture is after I lost my cool trying to bring the high spots down and beat them down. You can lay a flat edge on the panel at this point. But it is all knocked down. The picture above in my last post is where I am now with some of it worked out and high again. I only have my passenger side as a go buy. The last picture below is looking down the side after I knocked down the entire crowned areas. Both oil cans you can see them clearly in this pic. Except for the pushed in areas I created the rest looks straight to me as far as fwd and aft contour. I don't believe I will be able to match the up & down contour from passenger to driver side. With them pushed in it does move the bottom out were I have it cut for a patch. But as I remove the oil cans it moves inward as it should. Holding it in position at the bottom to align with patch does not appear to have much effect on the bulged areas. From research I gather that the shrinking disc is for the last amount of high area after you have it fairly straight. I can't seem to get to that point its like either these panels bont match right to left or the one is far out of wack with the other


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_134.jpg







http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_137.jpg

[Rick_L]

rocky, in that last photo it looks like you have a huge low spot from top to bottom, actually two or three of them. You need to get this area higher, then shrink it. You may need to use a blocking hammer and a shot bag to do this.

You have a lot of work to do to get this acceptable. A quarter panel may be less work.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Yes I do Rick I created them. Look at the straight edge it drops off like a cliff. Its worse on bottom but is also high al the way up. I have a huge crown or bulge top to bottom that is not in the passenger side which Im using as a go by sense it appears to be undamaged best I can tell. Either they never matched from the factory or one is teaked pretty badly. All attempts to tap the bulge areas down only oil canned the entire areas you see in the last photo. Thats why I lost my cool and wacked the hell out of them. I tried a shrinking hammer backed up with question mark dolly but did not seem to do anything but cheese grade the panel were I hit it. I have been holding the hammer on the outside and slapping the low areas from the back side with the question mark dolly and also tapped them on the highs from the outside holding the dolly on the back low spots. This seems to do what you are saying with a bag? There were smaller dents up by the door which I slowly worked up and kept running the da over them flat until all the rust disappeared I have all of them in a very acceptable condition needing little or no filler now. I also worked a dent out of the Qtr wheel lip itself and dents further back near the center of the opening thanking this could be causing my problem but it didnot help the bad areas. If you look back up at picture I posted last night this is how it looks at present. I have knocked most of the top back out. I have worked the bottom but it stills has away to go but again I just seem to be chasing my tail and creating a bulge again.

Rick reading other post (Cnuts repop qtr install) I found this your exact words. quote "They are REALLY flat from the door jamb to the center of the wheel opening, where they start to have a slight crown" unquote

This is how my passenger qtr is which I call good. Not the case on the drivers side.

I also found this quote from you" FWIW I did my best to ruin my good original quarters trying to shrink out a bumper crease just behind the door on each one. Lots of work to fix my mistakes."

So it looks like I'm not the first rookie to have this happen to LOL. Maybe a glimmer of hope I hope.

[Rick_L]

You are very correct, I got into a similar situation as you and the fix for me was a new quarter. I had the whole thing smoother than yours but it was low all over. Pretty much the whole panel was overshrunk from trying to shrink little low spots.

That's where the bag and blocking hammer comes in. You need to get the low spots high so you can work them. You can't shrink a low spot unless you have full access to the back side. That's why you need to work those areas up with the hammer and shot bag. A slapper or heavy dolly works here too. Hammer the back side, hold the shot bag on the outside. Looking back, that's what I could have done to mine. After you get the whole panel high and pretty straight, then you can shrink the high spots back down to where they should be.

I was hoping that Robert (MP&C) might have chimed in by now.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Rick the master already chimed in early on and said replace it lol. I think he is done lol. But I'm hard headed. That may be the problem. I hit my head with the question mark dolly when I missed the fender lip I was beating on and it slipped out of my hand and came down on my forehead just above the right eye. I dont think I could see a straight panel for the rest of the day lol. Its the crown up and down the panel thats killing me. Like its way over stretched. I'm not sure what the previous person did as far a hammer and dolly it was full of bondo and left with out paint or prime.

[Rick_L]

I agree you are probably stretched not shrunk at least in the areas that are the worst. Keep after it, you can get it better than now.

[MP&C]

Rocky, you have quite a bit going on there, hard to say where to start. Do you still have the wheel wells in? For the hammer and dolly work that it will need, easier access will make easier repairs..

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Robert the wheel well is still in place. I've been reaching up from the bottom so far. I was figuring I Might have to get a buddy to help with the patch panel reaching thru the access opening. Its probably not good that I'm trying to work a panel that is open on one side is it?

This is what I'm dealing with. These picture are from top of qtr to top of wheel wheel. You can see the crown or buldge to the panel. I'm assuming my passenger side is good and that the panel should be relative flat back to center of wheel opening as Rick also measured on his sedan. If true how does one remove a crown like this?

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_140.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_141.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_139.jpg

[Custer55]

It looks like a little bit of shrinking might help to got you closer before doing more hammering.
If you don't have a shrinking disk you can use a sanding disk mounted backwards so the git is facing
the back up pad. Keep working at it. Not much to lose at this point.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Cluster I have a shrinking disc on order fits my 4 1/2 grinder from Wolf's suppose to arrive on Sat... But reading I get the impression I should get it all up before I shrink. I believe Rick mentioned this as well. Also the examples of using a disc show it shrinking high spots bumps not crowns that cross the entire panel. How do I use the disc for that? Start at top and go down every inch or so on the crown? Shrinking and checking as I go? Perhaps multiple passes all along the crown? I'm all ears.... As you say I can't make it much worse can I.

[Custer55]

Just hit the high spots and bumps with the shrinking disk, (They put the heat where it's needed most, on the stretched metal which can be a high or low spot) Just do a little at a time and alternate between shrinking and bumping up the low spots.
Brian

[Rick_L]

A shrinking disc can be used to remove a large crown. Use it the same way you'd use it for a small spot. MP&C has posted about marking a grid and shrinking on all the grid crossing lines - he wasn't using a disc but it really doesn't matter what you use. Work slowly and logically, don't try to do to much without checking progress.

[chevynut]

IMO I think a stud gun is easier to manage than a shrinking disc, but I admit I haven't tried the latter. A stud gun with a shrinking tip shrinks very small areas at a time, allowing you to better control the shrinkage. I used one to shrink the bulge I had in my new quarter, and to shrink the bulge behind the door seam when I replaced the quarters.

But first I think you need to work on smoothing out the panel regardless of which method you use. You need to get the lumps and dips out of it and then work on lowering the crown. As Rick has mentioned, you need to be careful about over-shrinking or you could flatten the vertical crown too much too.

This stuff takes patience, and a slow, methodical approach. That's why I like the stud gun.

Here's what a few shrinks did for me...

This is the driver's side, after welding and planishing. I made a the cut horizontal and then vertical, which is what I recommend to anyone doing a HT quarter on a Nomad/wagon. I've seen it done with a diagonal cut but that causes all sorts of problems as I learned on the passenger side.


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5285&stc=1

Notice the hatched area that was high. I debated what to do but shrinking with the stud gun brought it all down flat.


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5284&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5286&stc=1


This is the passenger side, right behind the door and below the horizontal weld. This side I did a diagonal seam and I'd never recommend doing that.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5287&stc=1

This is after a few shrinks. I think I did just a few more....

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5288&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5289&stc=1


And this is after a light sanding with a DA. The shrinks are barely noticeable and are usually gone with one coat of Slicksand.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5290&stc=1

[MP&C]

I agree with Laszlo's take on the stud gun shrinking tip, easier to manage SLOWLY so you can see what is happening. I can use my shrinking tip and with one zap see the panel move inward on a high. Using a shrinking disc may work, and I think it will do so more quickly, and for a novice I think you'll be over-shrinking where you will be chasing oil cans all over this quarter for months to come. Do you have an O/A torch or a TIG?


There should be some crown to the panel from front to back, it shouldn't be perfectly flat. What you show at the top is likely close minus the ripples from the dent that was there.

I think I read that you said you had an oil can, is it a loose or tight one? If you don't know, set down the hammer until you read my oil can thread. I have a feeling you may need it before this is over. I'd also suggest to try looking at the damage differently. Don't get tunnel vision and only think of the damage as a high and a low that you see in the panel. Because you can go inside the quarter and now your low just became a high on the inside. Where this comes in handy is when bumping the highs using a hammer from the outside into a shot bag or similar on the inside, you are forcing stretched metal back into itself. When you have a low, go inside and it is now a high. It would likely be more effective in removing the stretch if you could bump using a hammer on the inside into a shot bag on the outside. By changing your direction of hammer hit like this, it should be more effective at moving the panel highs (from the hammer side point of reference) to where everything can settle into it's happy medium in the middle. It's here where removing rear tires and wheelwells would be advantageous. Trying to work through the window mechanism access port like a contortionist will not get you effective hits, primarily meaning your hits won't be that accurate. If you can't hit where it's needed to remove the dents, then your success may be limited...


Then once some of the ripples have been addressed, I'd look at the profiles again and see where shrinking needs to occur.. Also, your damage was caused by a dent, so the damage is all stretch at this point. Stay away from any on-dolly or hammer on steel dolly. You don't need anything at this point to cause more stretch. If you have any loose oil cans around the outer perimeter of this damaged area, leave it alone, address the dent. The forces that have been pushed around in the dented area may have pulled at the panel elsewhere, causing a loose oil can. Removing the stretch of the dent should relax the panel where any loose oil cans go away.

[MP&C]

oil can thread....


http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/4108-quot-Oil-canning-quot-and-sheet-metal

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks Robert!!! Grasshopper will report back....

[DocHarley]

You guys must have a better stud gun then mine if you like it so much. Mine, which is spring loaded, caused major shrinkage because of the amount of pressure needed to ground the outer ring to make it activate. Shrinking disc worked great for me.

[chevynut]

The spring pressure on a stud gun shouldn't contribute to the amount of shrinkage. All you need to do is barely hit the trigger to get some shrinkage as the metal heats up and "upsets" because it has nowhere to go but into itself. I found that I needed to do hundreds of spots but it was very controlled. All you have to do it hit the high spot, check it again, and hit the next high spot. Be careful not to over-shrink or you end up with oilcanning around the shrink area!!

[Rick_L]

To add to what Cnut said, you can control how much heat you put in the metal with timing. Hold it a long time, you may get too much. Higher end devices often have a timer.

I've had good and bad results with just about every method. They all take practice and good judgment. One thing that helped me with torch shrinking was to use a propane torch (no oxygen) rather than a regular oxyacetylene torch. Also you don't have to get the metal red hot to shrink. Enough localized temperature to make a wet rag sizzle will shrink. Also it doesn't matter how you cool the shrink, though cooling will let you work faster in a controlled manner because you can see the results as you go.

[MP&C]

Rocky, do you have a TIG welder or O/A torch?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Robert I only have stick, mig, and plasma torch in my tool box.

I should say thank you to all of you!! I filled a gallon baggy with my grandsons wet play sand and put it in a leather bag and magic shot bag. Works great. There may be hope.. In less than 5 minutes I managed to recover back close to level it was before I lost my cool.. I have also started looking in other areas as suggested. I'm off tommorrow hope to continue removing the ripples before I attempt any shrinking.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Pretty happy with results so far. I used my make shift shotbag and question mark dolly to work inside out. Less than 20 minutes. The first picture was after the bag only. I sprayed the panel with satin black really helped with seeing highs and lows. Second pic after 2 hrs of gental tapping mostly off dolly then more on dolly. Ive got along ways to go but I think I'm getting the hang of it. I plan to do no shrinking until I have all the ripples out.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_144.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_143.jpg

[Rick_L]

I can see some nice progress. Keep going.

[chevynut]

Looking good! Stay patient and keep working the metal. Once you have it smooth you can think about shrinking.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Guys the shrinking disc saved my azz. I am fairly happy with results. I now have the panel fairly flat and matching contours right to left side. Im still 1/16 high and low in areas but Im going to stop and weld in the patch before any further body work to the qtr. The panel will need filler as is. I may do a little more panel wirk but I'm going to leave any furhther work to a train body guy that I hire to do the final paint job and move on to something I'm a little better at.
Thanks for all the help.
Rocky


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_146.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_145.jpg

[MP&C]

Don't get impatient, take care of the quarter issues first before welding on the patch. After welding the patch in place, any highs and lows issues left in the quarter are more "locked in place" than if addressed beforehand..


Once you're satisfied that you've gone as far as you can with the quarter, then weld on the patch.

[chevynut]

Nice job Rocky. Glad you stuck with it...next time put the hammer down and throw something at the wall. :) :)

[Rick_L]

You've made some real good progress there. I agree with Robert on the patch. Having a free edge allows that edge to move if that's what it wants to do, avoiding the need for shrinking, or at least shrinking as much - so things will go faster.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

From this to this. I'm pretty happy with results. Certainly not perfect but dencent for a my first. I want think everyone for your inputs. I tried Robert's techique best I could but as he stated access being limited controlung srinking is tuff. It did swrink in a few areas but I can live with

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_160.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_161.jpg

[Custer55]

It looks 100% better than it did. Good work!!

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks Cluster. I spent more time on it lacing the weld on the bottom up and around the wheel lip. I was able to get my question mark dolly behind the welds and I straighten the majority of the srinkage out. A lot straighter now

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_163.jpg

[MP&C]

Looking good Rocky!

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Looking good Rocky!

Robert coming from you that is greatly appreciated!!!!!

I have a few questions. Sense some of my welds did not clean up and I will need to fill them. What would be the best product to use? What do you use for body seam filler that once had lead in it? I was watching dream garage and they were doing a concourse restoration and Peter the host mention a newer sealer product that is used in place of lead. Just wandering what that might be. I have successfully use JBweld in a stick as a filler and had no issues to date. A local car restored guy told me that's what he used because it doesn't shrink and crack like bondo does. But some painters on line say it may cause issues down the road.

Thanks
Rocky