How do you guys deal with a dinged up frame?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Apparently my nomad saw a few back roads in its day. The bottom of the rails are pretty dinged up. How would you address this? Cap it or?
Thanks
Rocky

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_76.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_75.jpg

[chevynut]

Just about every frame I've seen has some dings and dents. Some are bad enough that we cut out a section and replace it, or straighten it and weld it back in. We use a 1/32" cutting wheel on a die grinder for most cutting work if we don't use plasma. One frame we did had two big dents right in front of both of the rear kickups as if it hit a curb or something. We cut those out, hammered the metal back into shape, and welded it back in.

Another option for some dents would be to make something like a stud gun used for bodywork. Tack weld the head of a bolt to the frame and use a bar with a hole or slot in it with a fulcrum across the frame rail. Just put a nut on the bolt and pry the dent up, then cut and grind the bolt off.

Finally, there's filling and sanding. This is the main reason I discourage my customers from going with powdercoating. I don't know of any filler that works with powdercoating so you end up with dents, scratches, and wrinkles in the frame. If you use filler and paint, you can cover it all up.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks laz. The car is headed to the body shop this Friday. I will get with my body man he has the stud gun puller. The frame is getting painted with por15 epoxy as is all the bottom of the car. If I fill I will use use JB weld in a stick. It is far better than body filler for metal repair. I learned of it from another local body and paint guy who has restored some pretty nice cars. He uses it instead of welding in some cases like plugging small holes etc. My cutlass is full of it lol.

[Bitchin'57]

Thanks laz. The car is headed to the body shop this Friday. I will get with my body man he has the stud gun puller. The frame is getting painted with por15 epoxy as is all the bottom of the car. If I fill I will use use JB weld in a stick. It is far better than body filler for metal repair. I learned of it from another local body and paint guy who has restored some pretty nice cars. He uses it instead of welding in some cases like plugging small holes etc. My cutlass is full of it lol.
I'm going to smooth my frame with a product called All Metal. It sands like lead and is very strong.

[chevynut]

I'm going to smooth my frame with a product called All Metal. It sands like lead and is very strong.

I've used it on my Nomad body and it's a polyester filler loaded with aluminum powder. Some say it works under powdercoat but I've never seen it done. It's not the easiest stuff to sand but it can get you close to a flat finish with coarse paper. You'll probably need some high build primer over that. I just used regular filler on the frame I primed, but I only filled the sides since it was a 2-piece frame.

[MP&C]

I'd use the dent puller but keep in mind with the forming process used nothing on that frame is likely to be perfectly flat. Do you get the worst of it and let the rest of the imperfections go or are you looking for a show finish for the frame?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I'd use the dent puller but keep in mind with the forming process used nothing on that frame is likely to be perfectly flat. Do you get the worst of it and let the rest of the imperfections go or are you looking for a show finish for the frame?

Robert I'm building a driver so no show quality required. I mainly just want to pull them out as much as practical they don't need to be perfect at all. Sense the frame is going to get blasted I thought I might try to improve on it some.

[chevynut]

Sense the frame is going to get blasted I thought I might try to improve on it some.

"Might as well......" ;)

I was just joking that this is how a frame-off starts, and didn't know you were really doing it. :eek:

[MP&C]

Yup, stud puller/dent puller. Mine uses the "throwing star" consumables, so it doesn't leave a stud there when done. Heat, pull, twist, next..


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/1965%20Fairlane%20super%20street-super%20gas/Picture365.jpg

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

"Might as well......" ;)

I was just joking that this is how a frame-off starts, and didn't know you were really doing it. :eek:

I didn't pull all those parts off for the fun of it lol. I really am going frame off. Else I will have to cut that brand new floor assembly in half to get her in...... :)

[chevynut]

Yup, stud puller/dent puller. Mine uses the "throwing star" consumables, so it doesn't leave a stud there when done. Heat, pull, twist, next..


Robert, do you think that would work on a frame with .100" thick metal? I am skeptical. ;)

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Yup, stud puller/dent puller. Mine uses the "throwing star" consumables, so it doesn't leave a stud there when done. Heat, pull, twist, next..


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/1965%20Fairlane%20super%20street-super%20gas/Picture365.jpg

Cool stuff Robert never seen that before.

[chevynut]

I didn't pull all those parts off for the fun of it lol. I really am going frame off.

Problem is when you FINALLY convince yourself that you should go the C4 route, you'll have to paint it all over again. :) :) :)

[MP&C]

I didn't think the OEM frame was that thick, the two piece here seems to be about 14 gauge. Now I'll have to measure....

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Problem is when you FINALLY convince yourself that you should go the C4 route, you'll have to paint it all over again. :) :) :)

So you are saying your single shear design frame is not available as a complete rolling assembly already painted lol ?????? Sorry just kidding I couldn't help myself Laz...
All joking aside I am looking fwd to seeing how well the c4 front works with the stock leaf rear in Hutch 56.

[chevynut]

So you are saying your single shear design frame is not available as a complete rolling assembly already painted lol ??????

Actually it's a "semi-double shear" design :D since it has a solid 3/16" steel retainer between the two dogbones. I "fixed" the upper shock mounts by adding another plate to the frame to make it double shear, not that I feel it's needed, but to keep others who have a weak understanding of engineering from complaining. The only remaining single shear designs are the ones GM made. ;)


I am looking fwd to seeing how well the c4 front works with the stock leaf rear in Hutch 56.

Me too :)

[55 Rescue Dog]

The front and rear dog bone bolts appear to not be the same size? It's pretty cool someone invented a new mount,
the "semi-shear" design. Also applied to the dropped toe rods, when going from 3 mounting bolts to just 2. Like tie rods, does moving the rear toe rods just a couple inches lower have no effect on bump steer?
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6216&stc=1

[chevynut]

I didn't think the OEM frame was that thick, the two piece here seems to be about 14 gauge. Now I'll have to measure....

The GM spec on the frame is .090" thick or 3/32" (in the 57 specs). I think that's more like 12 gauge.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/56030.htm
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/57034.htm

[chevynut]

The front and rear dog bone bolts appear to not be the same size?

I think your pictures of the bolts are a pretty deceiving. The difference isn't as big as it seems because one is a flange bolt and the other is not. The flange bolts have much smaller heads on them. That flange bolt uses a 15mm wrench and the same 12mm bolt with a standard head would take a 19mm wrench (~3/4"). You make it look like it's a 3/8" bolt or something.

No they're not the same size, but that doesn't mean the smaller one is inadequate. Do the stress calculations like I did and convince your self whether it's good enough or not. Also notice the larger bolt is 9.8 grade and the smaller one is 10.9. That's like the smaller one being grade 8 and the larger one grade 5.



It's pretty cool someone invented a new mount,
the "semi-shear" design.

I thought is was cool too ;), but it's called a "semi-double shear" mount :) :) ( I just corrected it above). The plate serves to help prevent the bolts from bending by supporting one with the other. They somewhat help share the load between the two bolts, and keep them from being so susceptible to potential bending stresses. I've been using this design for a few years now.


Also applied to the dropped toe rods, when going from 3 mounting bolts to just 2. Like tie rods, does moving the rear toe rods just a couple inches lower have no effect on bump steer?

What's going from 3 mounting bolts to two? The toe adjuster bracket? 2 bolts are just fine for that...why would you think otherwise? When the outer toe rod connection is lowered, so is the inner connection. Just about everyone does it this way.

If you want to discuss bolt strength, single shear vs double shear mounts, or toe adjusters start another thread please. This stuff is off topic for this thread. ;)

[Rick_L]

My 2 piece frame is pretty consistently around .110" thick where I've measured it after cutting into it on the front crossmember and the area for the pocket kit for the rear spring mounts.

The bottom of my front crossmember had jack damage from placing the jack in the center of it. Zipped that part off, straightened it, and welded it back on.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I have a one piece frame I assume is it the same thickness as a 2 piece?

[chevynut]

My 2 piece frame is pretty consistently around .110" thick where I've measured it after cutting into it on the front crossmember and the area for the pocket kit for the rear spring mounts.

The bottom of my front crossmember had jack damage from placing the jack in the center of it. Zipped that part off, straightened it, and welded it back on.

There may be a different thickness used on some parts of the frame, but GM spec'd the frame rails at .090" or 3/32". I assume they used a standard steel sheetmetal gauge thickness:

11 gauge .120"
12 gauge .105"
13 gauge .090"
14 gauge .075"

Of course the specific manufacturer could have used slightly thicker steel than specified, because it was probably a minimum thickness. I believe there were 3 different manufacturers of Tri5 frames.

[NickP]

My 2 piece frame is pretty consistently around .110" thick where I've measured it after cutting into it on the front crossmember and the area for the pocket kit for the rear spring mounts.

The bottom of my front crossmember had jack damage from placing the jack in the center of it. Zipped that part off, straightened it, and welded it back on.

Thanks for getting this back on track. If, it's a driver, why bother?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Thanks for getting this back on track. If, it's a driver, why bother?

You have a valid point. Like I told Robert I just want to pull the larger ones out if possible if not to much headache else as you say I'll just leave them as is..... I'm not going to spend any time trying to smooth and clean the factory welds. there so nasty in places that they make mine look like a pro did it lol....

[chevynut]

Thanks for getting this back on track. If, it's a driver, why bother?

I don't know about you guys but even for a driver I couldn't leave dents that I could easily fill or remove....it's just not my nature to do that.;) And even so-called "drivers" get into car shows now and then (I've seen lots of them at Goodguys events), and car guys often look under cars. To me, failure to clean up at least some reasonable amount of dents and other crap suggests overall shoddy workmanship. JMO.

I say if it's easy to do, and it's in a visible place, then make it as good as you can. If you don't, some day you'll have it on a lift and might look at the dents and say "boy, I should have fixed those". ;)