Nomad final prep and paint

[chevynut]

Now that my Nomad's C4 chassis is essentially finished and the Ramjet 502 BBC engine is upgraded and installed, I have moved back to the body to do the final priming and blocking to get it ready for paint. I had already prepped and primed the body with PPG DPLF, followed by Slicksand, lots of blocking, and a coat of PPG K36. This is where it was before I started the interior construction and then blew it apart to paint and assemble the chassis....can't believe it's already been 5 years. :eek:

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To get all the dust and shop crap off of it, I washed the body with Simple Green and water, and then wiped it all down with PPG Oil and Wax Remover. I sanded the roof without guide coat because I could see pretty easily where I sanded and where any low spots were. The roof was already very straight and this is after blocking with 400 grit:

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Then I applied some Evercoat guide coat to both sides.....

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I blocked the doors and quarters with dry 400 grit using 9", 16", and 24" sanding blocks, depending on where I was on the panels. I have a couple of very minor low spots left that I believe will be addressed with another coat of primer.

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I also guide-coated the tailgate and tailpan areas and sanded with 400 grit. I think it's pretty darn straight now.....

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I still have the firewall to finish since I had to add new mounting studs for the Gen IV Vintage Air. My plan now is to do the final seam sealing, then spray the last (I hope) coat of PPG K36 urethane primer. I want to do a little more work on the interior before I remove everything and put the body on the rotisserie for final priming of the underside. Everything has PPG DPLF on it but I need to do some touchup after welding for the console, etc. A little seam sealer and sanding and the bottom will be ready too. Hopefully I can get to paint by early summer.

One question for Robert or whoever can reply without any of the typical snide remarks....once I spray the final coat of primer, should I sand with 400 or 600, or both? Wet or dry?

[MP&C]

So what I'm hearing is that K36 was the last thing applied? That's their high build, correct?


Here's what my answer is in using SPI. The SPI is more impervious to water intrusion, as compared to Slick sand, which is about a sponge. So with an epoxy as my final coats, I would have no fear of wet sanding, where using slick sand should be blocked dry. Not sure of the properties of K36 re: how much it likes water, if it is a high build. I would want to wet sand the final coat to 600 grit, and would want to do that on something that isn't going to soak up water. If K36 tends to absorb water (IDK, I don't use it) then I would use something like the SPI to seal and a final 600 grit wet sand. If it doesn't soak up water, use wet sanding directly on the K36. DO you have enough build on the K36 to prevent sand throughs? I think the problem you may have is K36 and SS being the same/similar color, any sand throughs may be hard to detect. Where if you had a black primer on top of the light grey SS, you can see when you're getting close to sanding through..

[55 Rescue Dog]

All friction aside...It looks great.

[55wagoncrazy]

I am not a fan of wet sanding primers PERIOD. Too much is uncontrollable when water is used around iron. I dry sand everything except color sanding paint and clear. Why ask for trouble when you don't have to.

I agree with Robert on the guide coat. I tint any final coats of primer with a contrasting color. When sanded you will find the highs and lows faster with this method. I don't worry about blocking the lows that have a tint out, because it is all the same material, just tinted. Apply the next layers and then the final with a tint. I use 5 basic color tints so when I take photos I know what block sanding it was because of the color of the guide coat.

Myself, I don't use any sandpaper finer than 320 on urethane primer. Only when I get to sealer do I use any 400 or finer. The final grit is determined by the material that will be going over it. Too fine and the new material will not have enough surface to grab. Too coarse and the solvent will swell the scratches uniformly like with base before clear.

[567chevys]

Looks really Good :)

[BamaNomad]

I am not a fan of wet sanding primers PERIOD. Too much is uncontrollable when water is used around iron. I dry sand everything except color sanding paint and clear. Why ask for trouble when you don't have to.

I agree with Robert on the guide coat. I tint any final coats of primer with a contrasting color. When sanded you will find the highs and lows faster with this method. I don't worry about blocking the lows that have a tint out, because it is all the same material, just tinted. Apply the next layers and then the final with a tint. I use 5 basic color tints so when I take photos I know what block sanding it was because of the color of the guide coat.

Myself, I don't use any sandpaper finer than 320 on urethane primer. Only when I get to sealer do I use any 400 or finer. The final grit is determined by the material that will be going over it. Too fine and the new material will not have enough surface to grab. Too coarse and the solvent will swell the scratches uniformly like with base before clear.

I agree with 55WagonCrazy on this.. 320 grit dry on primer prior to paint; wet sand only after paint. for all the reasons he states.. and this is what most paint shops and painters recommend as well.

[chevynut]

Thanks for the advice guys. I haven't wet sanded anything and I used a fairly light pressure on the semi-flexible sanding blocks (K-Block Firm & Flex). I can pretty easily tell when I hit the Slicksand because it's more brown than the K36, which is a urethane primer (not hi build like K38 is). In fact, I can even see the low spots in just the K36 pretty well, but the guidecoat helps a lot. When I go through the Slicksand I hit the dark gray DPLF but since it's all previously blocked there's almost no sand-throughs to epoxy.

We don't plan to use an epoxy sealer before basecoat. Instead, we're going to use a white urethane basecoat that goes on thin and smooth under the orange basecoat. It's my understanding that sealer is used to make the surface a uniform color before the basecoat and the white base does that. I was going to use a white epoxy sealer, but my painter says we'd have to sand it to get the finish he wants. The white is supposed to make the orange "pop" more in the sun, and it really seems to work on the frame.

I don't know about the 320 grit....it doesn't seem smooth enough to me. I'll consult with my painter, but I think he said I need to get to 600 before basecoat. Maybe dry versus wet makes a difference. The main hassle with the dry sanding is constantly getting the powder off the paper. I used my air gun and it works pretty good.

[rustay56]

Lazlo when I finish sand my jobs I go from 320 dry and use a product called Purple Haze, its a Purple tinted liquid which you pour onto a rag and apply to your panels, I then use 500 dry on a DA sander with an Interface Pad. If you have a shop vac connect it to your sander and use discs with holes in them. The paper lasts longer and you can see where your going easier. The purple haze soaks into the primer and shows up the scratches more than dry guide does, only downside is it only comes in 1 gallon containers ( In Australia ) which is enough to do 5 cars. Call your painter and see if he has some, If you choose to use a D/A and pad stay away from your edges as the pad tends to wrap over the edge and expose metal as it is very thin there. I use Norton soft touch super fine pads for my edges, they are good for getting into tight areas. I wouldn't paint basecoat over 320 dry, 400 dry would be ok because you are putting down a white base first. 400 dry = 600 wet for Solid colours, 500 dry = 800 wet for Metallic's but that's only if you are painting direct to primer.
If you choose to go the D/A route I will give you a some more suggestion to help, If not it's all good.:) Good Luck and I look forward to seeing some colour on.

Regards Andrew

[Custer55]

Looks great, all good advice above. If it were me I would dry sand everything. With the work you have in it to this point why take chances. You'll go through more sandpaper dry sanding but sandpaper is pretty cheap compared to the cost of the materials for your paint job, and you won't care about how much of a pain in the butt the dry sanding was when it's done.
Brian

[chevynut]

Andrew, I'm glad it works for you but a DA will not touch my car. ;) I think there's an experience level you have to have with one and I don't have it. I know sanding blocks are more work, but I feel much more comfortable with one in my hand than a DA.

I checked the PPG Deltron DBC P-sheet and it says to go to 400-600 grit before applying basecoat. I also searched the internet and most guys say to go to 600 grit, especially on lighter metallic or pearl colors since they tend to show scratches more.

I appreciate the feedback and I'll talk with my painter about it. I might wait to do the final sanding at his shop just prior to painting. I don't think I can really sand it at my place, load it on a trailer on a rotisserie, and expect it to be ready for paint when I get it there. I want him to help me go over it one last time before paint. He's been doing this for 40+ years and paints $1 million plus cars so I trust his advice. :)

I still have to block the tailgate, hood, and fenders. I want all the exterior panels painted at the same time, but the inner fenders and the other under-hood stuff can probably be painted separately if he wants to do that.

[55wagoncrazy]

A couple of tricks I have learned. Air blower works well, but the powder goes everywhere. I use a shop vac and a nylon brush end to vac the sandpaper. Another thing that works well is a cheap piece of carpet. Wipe the sand paper on it and it will be clean.

600 under base is a good place to be.

I'm not in favor of using a white base as a sealer. I understand the white to give the orange a pop. But the white base is NOT A SEALER. A sealer will provide a barrier between all the substrates used before the basecoat or first layers of single stage. It works to keep different materials reacting differently to the solvents in the new materials. A base paint will NOT DO THIS. The result can be different appearance of the base in different areas because of what is under it being different. A sealer will make it all uniform. Many sealers have a window of use, and if sprayed and top coated within that window you will be good to go. Outside the window and a scuff sand or reapplication is needed.

[chevynut]

Found this on the PPG p-sheet:

"K36 is a premium quality primer surfacer for today’s advanced technology finishes. K36 is a gray, high build, fast drying product that has superior sanding characteristics and excellent gloss holdout. It may also be used as a tintable primer surfacer and as a wet-on-wet sealer. For use as a wet-on-wet sealer see bulletin P-169S. K36 can be used over sanded original finishes and/or properly prepared and treated bare steel, aluminum, fiberglass and plastic substrates. K36 must be mixed with K201 hardener for use as a primer surfacer."

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/p-169P_PRIMA_Acrylic_Urethane_Primer_Surfacer.pdf

It does sand very well. :)

[chevynut]

A little update....

I re-shot the roof with K36 and noticed some very slight low spots right at the top of the b-pillars on both sides that I could see while the primer was wet, as well as two small spots near the windshield above the drip rails. So I made a couple of passes there to try to add primer for blocking. It's a little tricky to keep the block in the right orientation at the top of the b-pillar, and it's easy to sand up and down on the b-pillar and cause a dip at the top. After sanding, it looks like the low spots are virtually gone and one more coat and some careful sanding will eliminate them.

I had removed the drip tabs on the sides of the cowl at the a-pillars long ago so I primed them and re-attached them with Evercoat 822 2K seam sealer and screws, and smoothed the seam sealer around them. I also reached inside the cowl vents at the base of the windshield and sealed the seam to the firewall to keep water from getting in there. It was really difficult to do since the openings are so small, but I managed to do it by putting the sealer on my fingers and smearing it down the seam as far as I could, then using tools through the cowl access panels to apply it where I couldn't reach. The only place I can't figure out how to seal is about 8" in the center of the cowl, because it's so tight in there. Seems like I need a flexible tip on the sealer tube. I had to order another tube of $ealer so I can't finish that until it comes in.

I repaired the new A/C mount weld areas on the firewall and sanded them down then shot another coat of K36, blocked it out with guide coat and shot another coat. It's amazing when you think you're close to being done, and how much stuff you end up finding when you sand carefully. I used a little U-Pol 2K glazing putty here and there to fill some minor imperfections. The firewall engine setback is pretty difficult to sand too, since there are a lot of angles. But now the firewall and cowl are 95% complete.

Once the cowl is fully sealed and primed I'll sand one more time and apply what I hope is the final coat of primer that I'll sand just before paint. The tailpan and tailgate area is also ready after blocking with guide coat and shooting one more coat of K36. I still need to detail sand the tailgate opening too.

Once I get the body on the rotisserie I plan to prime and sand the door openings and detail them as much as I can.

I also want to locate and mount the side mirrors and I have two stock-type mirrors I want to use. I find I use both the driver's side and passenger side mirrors a lot on all my vehicles so I want to mount both of them on my Nomad. Any tips on where they should go? I think I may have to put the driver's seat in to sit in to locate them.

[chevynut]

I have a question that's been bugging me for a long time. Do I paint the inside of the body or not? My interior guy thinks I should, but I see cars that are only primed inside, and only a few that are fully painted. He says he thinks I only need the base and not the clearcoat but that seems half-assed to me :confused:.

The paint is really expensive, but I don't want to cheap out now. If I shoot the inside, do I mask off the outside so I don't paint it...I would think so? I'd probably do the interior in my shop instead of in my painter's booth. I may even paint and clearcoat the dash myself, so he can focus only on the outside of the body.

[LEE T]

As long as you understand that the dash needs metal work, filler, lots of sanding, and proper spraying techniques just like the outer body. Of course, the top of the dash is sprayed through the windshield opening, and keep in mind that it is easier to mask the dash while the outside is painted, then it is to properly mask the outside while the dash is painted.

Personally, I don't understand painting hidden interior parts with body color. Does the Good Guys custom of the year have body color on all of the interior?

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx119/from7/Forum%20photos/e803660c-7e38-455a-9696-1b5918970167_zpslpjjokob.jpg

[Bitchin'57]

It seems like a waste of time and money to shoot base/clear on areas like the floor. For what? It will never be seen after the sound deadener goes on. If its to seal it from moisture, then the epoxy primer will take care of that.

[chevynut]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Take a look at Bamanomad's new red 57....it's completely sprayed body color inside. I don't know if the GG car has body color sprayed throughout the interior or not, because it's all covered with upholstery ;). New cars are sprayed inside and out...why do they do that? In any case I probably need to at least re-shoot epoxy on the interior because there's some areas I've welded on or re-worked. Maybe I should do that with a different color than gray DPLF. :)

I don't plan to put sound deadener over every square inch of the interior like some guys do because I think it's waste and just adds weight. I'll put some large pieces here and there, on the floor and inside the doors, but that's about it. I already applied it inside the tailgate. The roof will get some deadener and thermal insulation inside as will the firewall. All the sound deadener needs to do is keep the panel from vibrating to be effective. I'm using RAAMmat that I bought years ago because I think Dynamat is grossly over-priced for what it is.

The top of the dash isn't even an issue as far as paint but it does need to be smooth. It will be covered with charcoal leather as will the beltline moldings...at least that's the current plan. I still have some work to do on the lower dash (below the dash trim) since I welded it together and I need to tweak it a little to fit my valence pieces better. I haven't really even started to detail the interior yet. My interior guy needs the windshield out when he gets the car.

Any tips on mirror location, or how to determine where to put them?

[Bitchin'57]

CN, you brought up a good point about the overuse of sound deadener by most builders. I watched a demonstration where a 1 square inch piece of Dynamat was applied onto a drum cymbal. When struck afterward, it went from a shimmering crash to a dead thud.

[NickP]

CN, you brought up a good point about the overuse of sound deadener by most builders. I watched a demonstration where a 1 square inch piece of Dynamat was applied onto a drum cymbal. When struck afterward, it went from a shimmering crash to a dead thud.

But do you only want one square inch protected from heat? Even if you only use the heat shield material in the floor, some degree of noise cancelation is bound to be present too.

[Bitchin'57]

But do you only want one square inch protected from heat? Even if you only use the heat shield material in the floor, some degree of noise cancelation is bound to be present too.
I'm talking about Dynamat Xtreme, which is a sound deadener. It isn't sold as a thermal barrier. Dynamat brand sells Dynaliner, which is a thermal barrier.

CN, sorry to get your build thread off course! Back to our regularly scheduled Nomad build...

[chevynut]

But do you only want one square inch protected from heat? Even if you only use the heat shield material in the floor, some degree of noise cancelation is bound to be present too.

Nick, the typical butyl sound deadeners aren't made to be heat barriers. You need to add thermal insulation on top of it.

[WagonCrazy]

Most effective way to spot your 2 mirrors is to put he seat in and then spot them.
If you plan to keep the wind wings (instead of deleting them for one piece door glass), they will need to be present, so you can spot the mirrors where the vertical wing stainless divider won't interfere with your sight line.
If you are looking for exact measurements, sorry, I don't have them...

[NickP]

Nick, the typical butyl sound deadeners aren't made to be heat barriers. You need to add thermal insulation on top of it.

I am aware that the two compounds/materials work specifically toward different issues but there has to be some crossover benefit from either material. In the past, I have attempted to find white paper on results from each application specific to use and manufacturer but haven't had much success. We are using (not applied) Lizard Skin product which as you know is a spray on material.

[BamaNomad]

It has appeared to me that the manufacturers of these materials rely on the 'misinformation in the market' to sell more material.

From an engineering perspective, it's pretty clear what potential benefits might derive from the materials:

1) the 'heavy' materials (primarily the butyl based thicker products which have mass) will dampen out resonances and minimize sound reflections/transmissions, and have little/no benefit as a thermal material.

2) lighter weight (thicker materials) which contain 'air', will provide thermal benefits, but little benefit for sound control. (Air space, particularly static airspace, is still the primary/best thermal insulator; the 'materials' that hold it (air) are only for minimizing air movement within the material to minimize convection losses.

[chevynut]

Most effective way to spot your 2 mirrors is to put he seat in and then spot them.
If you plan to keep the wind wings (instead of deleting them for one piece door glass), they will need to be present, so you can spot the mirrors where the vertical wing stainless divider won't interfere with your sight line.
If you are looking for exact measurements, sorry, I don't have them...

That's what I have read in the past, but since I work by myself 99% of the time it's hard to do. And my vent windows aren't installed either. Was hoping someone had the measurements. I am not doing vent window delete.

So you look at the mirrors THROUGH both vent windows?

[chevynut]

I think that "Lizard skin" is kind of a scam as are similar spray-on materials. It's not heavy or flexible enough to provide a lot of sound dampening, and it's not thick enough to provide much thermal insulation. At least that's my take on the stuff, though I haven't researched it much.

[BamaNomad]

CN: I agree with you re 'Lizard skin'... I've been skeptical since the stuff first came out and even though I 'stop and listen' to their spiel occasionally at shows, I've remained skeptical of any real benefits (especially wrt the cost).

re your mirror placement question: are you wanting the *original factory placement for the mirrors? Or?? I can measure and provide for you the factory placement if that's what you are wanting (although my original cars only have the drivers side).. Let me know and I can check/measure and reply back pretty quickly.

[BamaNomad]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but if it is.... :)

1956 Nomad stock drivers side mirror position:

[chevynut]

Thanks BamaNomad, that's a start!!! My car had holes for a mirror but I welded them up a long time ago.

[Custer55]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but if it is.... :)

1956 Nomad stock drivers side mirror position:

That is pretty close to where mine are mounted. Mine might be 1/4" to 1/2" closer to the front of the door. The drivers side one I have full visibility from the drives seat and the passenger side is just cut off on the very inside edge by the vent window. If I was sitting back a bit farther it wouldn't be cut off at all and as it is it's not enough to be an issue (I'm only 5'7" so if you taller you would most likely sit back farther). Most of the time I just look over my shoulder to that side anyway. You can see everything by just turning your head in my 55, no blind spots at all unlike the newer cars. A Nomad may not have the same visibility but it can't be much different since it's side windows go all the way to the back.
Brian

[chevynut]

Brian, are both your mirrors set in the same exact location?

[Custer55]

Brian, are both your mirrors set in the same exact location?

Yep, mine are located the same on both sides. The one I added on the passenger side is just a drivers side mirror mounted on the passenger side.

[DocHarley]

Chevynut, Are you using guide coat as your only source for laser straight panels? I hope not, there's more to it when perfection is your goal. I've seen cars that were guide coated only and look horrible. Just saying. :)

[chevynut]

Docharley, what else do you recommend using? I'm using my eyeballs and guide coat. :)

[chevynut]

I took a little detour and went back to re-consider putting a fuel pump access hole in my cargo floor. I talked myself out of it when I put the new floor in, but decided it's probably a good idea, if only to troubleshoot a potential problem with the pump. I made the hole big enough to pull the pump out, though.

First I measured from two different locations on my frame to the center of the fuel pump module and marked the location on the cargo floor. Then I decided how big I wanted the hole to be and made a cover and ring. I put 6-32 PEM fasteners in the ring and drilled holes in the cover for flat head screws.


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With the parts built, I cut the hole in the floor and trimmed it out to fit the cover.

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Then I plug welded the ring in place.

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Here's the final result...

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Now I have to cut a hole in the cargo floor plywood, which I previously marked, and make another cover for that.

[NickP]

It shouldn't move! Take longer to get to than to fix it once you're there ;)

[Rick_L]

Doc Harley, if guide coat isn't good enough, what is? I realize the sanding block has to be long enough.

[WagonCrazy]

Now I have to cut a hole in the cargo floor plywood,

plywood? really? curious...why not just carpet over padding on top of the sheet metal floor?

[chevynut]

plywood? really? curious...why not just carpet over padding on top of the sheet metal floor?

I wanted to keep it "original". :D

I posted pics of the plywood floor several times in the past, and NOW you comment about it? :D The plywood is light, flat, and gives me something solid to screw to when I put my trim on at the tailgate and attach anything in the storage compartment. Otherwise, I'd have screws going through the sheetmetal floor visible from below which I don't want. It also insulates from heat and noise so I don't think I'll need any thermal insulation back there. I plan to use epoxy primer on all the wood to waterproof it.

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[chevynut]

Today I made a cover plate out of .090" aluminum and cut out the access hole in the plywood. I recessed the cover into the plywood so it's perfectly flush and installed 8-32 t-nuts on the backside. I feel better about being able to access the fuel pump now without dropping the tank if I ever need to. :)


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With that done I can set the cargo plywood aside for epoxy priming and get back to other stuff. :)

[55 Rescue Dog]

You might need to add air shocks to hold all the extra building material you're hauling around.

[NickP]

You might need to add air shocks to hold all the extra building material you're hauling around.

Fishing again?

[BamaNomad]

I think your allowing fuel pump access is a great idea, CN... I assume you're planning to put carpet over the cargo area? not glued down so you can 'lift it up' if necessary??

[chevynut]

I assume you're planning to put carpet over the cargo area? not glued down so you can 'lift it up' if necessary??

It's a pretty thin Mercedes wool carpet and I think I'm going to ask my interior guy to Velcro it down so it comes up easily for access. That is unless I make some custom curved stainless pieces on the sides like Madmooks makes to hold it down. I plan to put a piece of stainless trim on the very back edge that covers the edge of the plywood. I may never have to get into it, but it's nice to know I can now. :)

Nick, don't bother with the troll. ;)

[BamaNomad]

It's a pretty thin Mercedes wool carpet and I think I'm going to ask my interior guy to Velcro it down so it comes up easily for access. That is unless I make some custom curved stainless pieces on the sides like Madmooks makes to hold it down. I plan to put a piece of stainless trim on the very back edge that covers the edge of the plywood. I may never have to get into it, but it's nice to know I can now. :) ...



Mike's reproduction stainless kit for Nomads is 'beyond excellent' (I've bought two sets already and probably will for the other Nomads as well).. but aren't you going to use it all to trim out the cargo area?? Or do you plan to only use the front and rear stainless pieces and velco down the sides??

[chevynut]

Mike's reproduction stainless kit for Nomads is 'beyond excellent' (I've bought two sets already and probably will for the other Nomads as well).. but aren't you going to use it all to trim out the cargo area?? Or do you plan to only use the front and rear stainless pieces and velco down the sides??

None of Mike's cargo floor stainless pieces would fit my Nomad. I eliminated the spare tire well, and the tubs are 4" wider than stock. I didn't have to go that wide to fit the 345 tires, and if I had it to do over again I wouldn't. I didn't really think about all the implications in the interior. I could have gotten by with about 2.5" wider tubs but I just made the tubs a little wider than the narrowed frame.

But the pieces Mike makes still wouldn't have fit. They would have to be curved on the sides as you can see in the pics. I might make some custom ones, or I might just butt up the carpet to the tubs with a leather edge sewn onto it. I'll decide when the interior is getting done.

[WagonCrazy]

wood or not, the back end of your wagon is as well thought out as the front end. ;)
Was just curious as to your methods and materials.

The fuel pump access door is a must. Otherwise, you have to to drop the tank any time you have any issues. Good workmanship with your solution. :)

[chevynut]

I guess this can be considered "final prep" lol :) but it should have been in a bodywork thread long ago. :p I've been trying to epoxy prime the interior of my car for the last time to address all the welding I've done and decided I needed to address a project I've been putting off for a long time. When I replaced my quarters I removed the small baffles between the inner and outer quarters. On a Nomad, there's a 2" hole through them so I wondered what they really accomplished and didn't make new ones when I replaced the quarters. Later, I decided I probably should have. This is what the stock ones look like:

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I was worried about being able to install them with the quarters on and it's pretty tricky to do. The first thing I did is make a rough aluminum pattern that I tried to install from the back of the car, but it wouldn't go in due to the formed depressions in the wheelhouse. I attached a long rod to help me reach the pattern into the right area since it was right in the middle of the wheelhouse and I was able to get it in from the front using the rod.

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I kept sanding the pattern down until I got the shape I needed to fit into the cavity. Once there, I determined the right angles and details to make the final part. This pattern then gave me a rough idea of what the final part should look like.

I used some 18 gauge steel and bent two flanges on each part for plug welding. Again, I attached the rod to the parts and sanded them until they fit the way I wanted to. Then I drilled some plug weld holes Borrowing Robert's idea of using the bulb seals, I trimmed them after marking a fixed distance from the inside of the quarter panels to get the curvature right. I used a sharpie with spacers left over from a prior project on it to roll along the inside surface of the quarter.

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The holes on the stock part are 2" but I really don't know if they need to be that large. I may put a grommet and a slit rubber seal on them to help seal the area better and prevent rattles from the cables. I cut some 1 1/4" holes in the parts until I figure out the final size.

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Also whipped out a couple of new covers for the cable access hole.

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[LEE T]

The holes on the stock part are 2" but I really don't know if they need to be that large. I may put a grommet and a slit rubber seal on them to help seal the area better and prevent rattles from the cables. I cut some 1 1/4" holes in the parts until I figure out the final size.

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I could be mistaken, and I did look to see if I had pictures of it, but I think there was originally a grommet in that hole.

[chevynut]

I've been cleaning up and straightening all of my interior access covers and made a couple of replacements too. I've always wondered....what are the tabs on these for?

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[LEE T]

The tabs help support the door panel.

I found a picture of a grommet on line that is somewhat similar to the tail gate cable grommet.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx119/from7/Forum%20photos/56%20Custom_Silicone_Rubber_Cable_Grommet_zpspoj4g mni.jpg

[BamaNomad]

I've been cleaning up and straightening all of my interior access covers and made a couple of replacements too. I've always wondered....what are the tabs on these for?

7347

It's been many years since I disassembled a complete car, but I am thinking those might be for helping hold on (hang on) the side panels ??

[chevynut]

Thanks for the info on the tabs, that makes sense.

Lee, those grommets look exactly like what I want. Any idea where to get them? I can't find anything like those at McMaster. There was nothing in those holes on my car, and no evidence anything ever was in them.

[LEE T]

The one pictured is the only one I have seen available.
If you are willing to order 1,000 min. you can design your own grommet.:cool:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Custom-Silicone-Rubber-Cable-Grommet_406135596.html

[Bitchin'57]

Thanks for the info on the tabs, that makes sense.

Lee, those grommets look exactly like what I want. Any idea where to get them? I can't find anything like those at McMaster. There was nothing in those holes on my car, and no evidence anything ever was in them.
They are on mcmaster's site. They are called expandable locking grommets: https://www.mcmaster.com/#push-in-grommets/=182ubgn

[chevynut]

They are on mcmaster's site. They are called expandable locking grommets: https://www.mcmaster.com/#push-in-grommets/=182ubgn

Those are way too small. The only two ID's listed are 3/8" an 13/16". The cable clevis has to go through them and it takes a minimum of about a 1" hole.

[MP&C]

Laszlo, I thought the retractor has a smaller "hook" on it that went through the hole, I haven't been out to check but thought the hole we installed was in the neighborhood of 7/8.. will be in the shop tonight so I'll take a look..

[chevynut]

Laszlo, I thought the retractor has a smaller "hook" on it that went through the hole, I haven't been out to check but thought the hole we installed was in the neighborhood of 7/8.. will be in the shop tonight so I'll take a look..

Robert, a wagon may be different than a Nomad. A Nomad has two holes to access the cables. The front hole is where the retractor goes and the rear hole, right in the center of the wheelwell, is where you can access the connection to the cable. The cable has a fairly large clevis on it and it also has a clevis pin and cotter pin to attach it to the retractor. I think the clevis might go through a 7/8" hole, but the problem is I believe it has to go through it during tailgate operation so it needs to be quite a bit bigger or it will hang up.

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzkxWDY1MA==/z/13EAAOSw~OdVagWi/$_58.JPG


http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/%7EAQAAOSw14xWQkCb/s-l500.jpg

[LEE T]

If you can find an original wagon with good ones, then that would definitely be the way to go.
You owe me a couple of frame conversions for finding this photo.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx119/from7/Forum%20photos/b1d6d173-4b2d-4051-9010-b2d49ca4d504_zpszarxtufh.jpg

[Bitchin'57]

I found them! For a 1.250 dia. hole, and has a 1.02 inside dia.

[chevynut]

Lee, thanks for the pic....I was beginning to believe there was nothing in that hole. I wonder if there's any of those left anywhere. Why can't I find them re-popped? They make every grommet, seal, screw, and other part for these cars. :confused:

[BamaNomad]

I found them! For a 1.250 dia. hole, and has a 1.02 inside dia.

Bitchin'57... we need MORE information.. :)

[Bitchin'57]

Bitchin'57... we need MORE information.. :)
It would be nice to at least get a "thank you" this time.

https://www.heyco.com/Hole_Plugs/product.cfm?product=Universal-Bushings

[chevynut]

It would be nice to at least get a "thank you" this time.

https://www.heyco.com/Hole_Plugs/product.cfm?product=Universal-Bushings

Thanks for trying ;) but those probably won't work. They're made of Nylon66 which I think is too stiff and imo the fingers would probably break quickly with the large clevis going back and forth through it. I think it needs to be rubber, or at least have rubber flaps.

The stock hole that the grommet goes into is 2" in diameter on a Nomad. Looks like it's smaller on a wagon for some reason, per Robert's pics. So getting one from a wagon (if that's even possible) probably doesn't help.

Here's the baffle for a Nomad again:

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7341&d=1497448886

And here's the ones for the wagon.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/1955%20Chevy%20Wagon%20Restoration%20Album%205/Picture%204783.jpg

[BamaNomad]

OK... After ordering two of the 2155 part, I then read CN's post that the Nomad holes were larger, so THEN i thought to go check my 57 Nomad (which is not assembled) and I found that on the passenger side, the rubber seal was still in place (but missing on the driver's side). I then used CN's measure of 2" and went back to the Heyco site and ordered two of the 2422 part (2" diameter). CN may also be correct re the nylon part 'not surviving' in the Nomad application (we'll test it and see when I get the parts). Thank you Bitchin'57 for pointing to those parts (whether they will work or not!)... :)

Attached are a couple of photos I made of the one in place on my '57 Nomad.
These photos were made with the Tailgate *closed*, so the cable and the attached spring *almost* comes to the rubber seal, but doesn't come thru it. When the tailgate is *opened* to about a foot or 15" or so, the clevis and retractor band does go thru the rubber seal, and that is probably what damages/destroys most of the original seals??

[Bitchin'57]

OK, I found a rubber version. https://www.primochill.com/collections/rubber-hole-grommets/products/mod-smart-1-inch-cable-tubing-rubber-pass-thru-grommet

[chevynut]

These photos were made with the Tailgate *closed*, so the cable and the attached spring *almost* comes to the rubber seal, but doesn't come thru it. When the tailgate is *opened* to about a foot or 15" or so, the clevis and retractor band does go thru the rubber seal, and that is probably what damages/destroys most of the original seals??

Wow bamanomad, that looks like one SOLID Nomad body. No rust in that area? Amazing. ;)

I think that was a rather poor design on Chevy's part. Seems like they could have somehow designed it so the clevis didn't have to go through the grommet every time the gate was lowered. Putting the baffle further aft might have solved the problem assuming the cable was long enough. They could have put the retractor further forward and used a longer cable too.

[chevynut]

OK, I found a rubber version. https://www.primochill.com/collections/rubber-hole-grommets/products/mod-smart-1-inch-cable-tubing-rubber-pass-thru-grommet

thanks Bitchin'. I still don't think those are large enough, but they're sure getting close. They need to fit into a 2" hole and the ID probably has to be at least 1.25".....preferably larger. If they're too small, the clevis will probably just pull them out of the holes. I'm curious what they did on the wagons with the smaller hole.

[Bitchin'57]

thanks Bitchin'. I still don't think those are large enough, but they're sure getting close. They need to fit into a 2" hole and the ID probably has to be at least 1.25".....preferably larger. If they're too small, the clevis will probably just pull them out of the holes. I'm curious what they did on the wagons with the smaller hole.
Maybe I missed something, but I thought you wanted a grommet that fits a 1.25 dia.hole with a 1" ID. I'll look for a 2" version.

[chevynut]

I wonder about this one.....

https://www.grainger.com/product/1APU1&AL!2966!3!50916797157!!!g!82166218077!?gclid=Cj0KE Qjwg47KBRDk7LSu4LTD8eEBEiQAO4O6r5rTkpOwv1z0U2e261r-hbfG03C4KpYrE94Fv9mpJAAaAjsi8P8HAQ&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA?campaignid=184590717&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916797157!!!g!82166218077!&ef_id=WEWOVAAABCbw87oQ:20170616170639:s

[chevynut]

Maybe I missed something, but I thought you wanted a grommet that fits a 1.25 dia.hole with a 1" ID. I'll look for a 2" version.

Yes, I said this above where I posted the pics of the Nomad baffle and the Wagon baffle:

"The stock hole that the grommet goes into is 2" in diameter on a Nomad. Looks like it's smaller on a wagon for some reason, per Robert's pics. So getting one from a wagon (if that's even possible) probably doesn't help."

Thanks for looking ;) I'm sure lots of other guys need these too, they just don't know it. :)

[Bitchin'57]

These are interesting. Certainly big enough for what you want to do. Would need to be screwed or riveted on. Not stock appearing, but then again, your 'Mad is far from stock. https://greatlakesskipper.com/lund-oem-1983788-black-2-1-2-x-1-3-4-inch-rubber-boat-oval-grommet-pair

[chevynut]

I just bought these....I'll slice them for the cables:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/a34AAOSw4A5YwhIi/s-l500.jpg

[BamaNomad]

Wow bamanomad, that looks like one SOLID Nomad body. No rust in that area? Amazing. ;)

I think that was a rather poor design on Chevy's part. Seems like they could have somehow designed it so the clevis didn't have to go through the grommet every time the gate was lowered. Putting the baffle further aft might have solved the problem assuming the cable was long enough. They could have put the retractor further forward and used a longer cable too.

Yes, it is, but there was some metal replaced before I purchased the car (the floor in particular, and perhaps some more), but the work appears to have been in an outstanding fashion. This car is an LA car that was transplanted to Texas in the late 70's or early 80's, and then to Nashville, TN in the late 2000's..

I agree... having the clevis pass thru that slitted grommet doesn't appear to be a very apt design, but remembering that the Nomad (in '55) was a 'late addition' to the model lineup and didn't appear until after Jan 1955.. it could be that the design was 'borrowed from the '55 wagon, with the only change being to go to the larger 2" diameter hole with the clevis passing thru it? I wonder if on the reg wagon, does the clevis have to pass thru the grommet??

CN: Those look to be a perfect material for modification to achieve the purpose IF they are for a 2" dia hole??

[chevynut]

CN: Those look to be a perfect material for modification to achieve the purpose IF they are for a 2" dia hole??

50mm.....1.97" :) ID is 38mm or 1.50". The only minor issue I see is the panel thickness is .118". I will probably make a washer to take up the gap.

I'll let you know if they work. ;)


https://m2.uxcell.com/photo_new/20150505/d/ux_a15050500ux0912_ux_d03.jpg

[chevynut]

Talked to my painter yesterday and he says he's really busy but will find time to slip my car in when it's ready. Now I have to keep moving so it's not another 2 years later. :)

[Bitchin'57]

Yes, I said this above where I posted the pics of the Nomad baffle and the Wagon baffle:

"The stock hole that the grommet goes into is 2" in diameter on a Nomad. Looks like it's smaller on a wagon for some reason, per Robert's pics. So getting one from a wagon (if that's even possible) probably doesn't help."

Thanks for looking ;) I'm sure lots of other guys need these too, they just don't know it. :)
You cut a 1.25" hole in those new plates, and that's the size I was looking for. If you wanted a 2" hole, then you should have cut a 2" hole. No big deal, you found a solution, and that's what matters.

[chevynut]

You cut a 1.25" hole in those new plates, and that's the size I was looking for. If you wanted a 2" hole, then you should have cut a 2" hole.

I cut a 1.25" hole using the holesaw I had, with the intention of increasing them to whatever size I settled on. I planned to use a die grinder to take it out to the correct size which is what I originally said in my first post on these here:

"The holes on the stock part are 2" but I really don't know if they need to be that large. I may put a grommet and a slit rubber seal on them to help seal the area better and prevent rattles from the cables. I cut some 1 1/4" holes in the parts until I figure out the final size."

Anyhow, thanks for looking for a solution for the grommet, and getting me to look some more. ;)

[BamaNomad]

Having my curiousity aroused, I went out and went thru the boxes I got with the car looking for the cover plates that were removed from the car by the person who did the metalwork restoration and paint, and in the box with the driver side parts (reel, cable, cover plates, etc) was another of the grommets. I suppose the fella totally disassembled the car for paint, but only installed back the reel/cable/parts for the passenger side (wtih the grommet). The grommet I found was nasty and was missing a 'quarter section' of the slitted center, but after cleaning I found PN's on it.. the following: D-3 55XP7548 and 4687027. I did a quick search in ebay and on google but didn't find anything for those numbers.

I suppose that's my bit of 'learning' for the day; that the Nomad tailgate cables went thru grommets in the body that are no longer available, OR reproduced... If I ever knew that these were installed at the factory, then it was so long ago (1974 or so), that I'd forgotten.. Maybe we should contact Steele Rubber parts and see if they want to repro them for resale...

[chevynut]

Yeah Bamanomad, I'm really surprised nobody has repopped these grommets. I didn't even know they existed, and I'll bet a lot of other guys don't either. Steele Rubber may be a good place to have them repopped. I still wonder if wagons had them, but since the hole is so small I doubt it. Strange stuff. :)

[MP&C]

here's the 55 wagon version..


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/1955%20Chevy%20Wagon%20Restoration%20Album%206/IMG_3592.jpg

[chevynut]

Robert, I'm assuming there's no grommet in the wagon part. Does the clevis have to pass through it when the tailgate is opened and closed? Seems awfully tight at 1".

[BamaNomad]

7362736373647365
Yeah Bamanomad, I'm really surprised nobody has repopped these grommets. I didn't even know they existed, and I'll bet a lot of other guys don't either. Steele Rubber may be a good place to have them repopped. I still wonder if wagons had them, but since the hole is so small I doubt it. Strange stuff. :)

Update: I sent a message to Steele Rubber Products last week, and today received email and phone followup. I was told just the mold for a small rubber part would cost them around $2500, and they would need one of my parts in order to evaluate further. I plan to send one of my parts to them for their evaluation/ they said they would return it after.

Attached are a few better photos of the factory part that I will sent them. It is missing one of the 'flaps', but I think they can work from this one. Didn't someone post a photo or a better (near perfect?) part? That would be a better part to send them if the owner is agreeable...?

[chevynut]

Here's my version of the part using the grommets I posted. I punched some holes at the end of the flaps to help prevent tearing (per Bamanomad's phone call today :)) and it looks like they're larger than necessary but it's all I had to work with. Then I opened up the holes to 50mm. Now I just have to fit and install the quarter panel seals then prime them and plug weld them in. The grommets are pretty snug in the holes but I'll probably just use some weatherstrip adhesive on one side to keep them in place since the slot is .118" and the metal is only .045".

7366

[BamaNomad]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but if it is.... :)

1956 Nomad stock drivers side mirror position:

Followup on LH/RH mirror position...

I made a couple more photographs today of the LH mirror position on my 56 Nomad and also my '57 Sedan. Both these cars have mirrors *(factory position) in the same location (*relative to the windwing).. see photos... For these photos, I turned the mirror head so it was perpendicular (facing straight rearward) and you can see on both cars the reflective surface of the mirror is aligned to the same point re the windwings.

The third photo is a 'simulation' for how a RH mirror might be viewed from the driver's seat. I turned the LH mirror as much as possible to allow rearward viewing from the front PASSENGER seat and I took the photo from the passenger seat perspective. I was not able to turn the mirror enough so I could view the side of the car from that perspective, so adjusting a RH mirror to get full range of view from the driver's seat might pose a challenge? From this, I do think that viewing an adjacent lane of traffic would be achievable when mounting a factory mirror on the RH side at the same consistent location as the LH mirror position.

[BamaNomad]

Here's my version of the part using the grommets I posted. I punched some holes at the end of the flaps to help prevent tearing (per Bamanomad's phone call today :)) and it looks like they're larger than necessary but it's all I had to work with. Then I opened up the holes to 50mm. Now I just have to fit and install the quarter panel seals then prime them and plug weld them in. The grommets are pretty snug in the holes but I'll probably just use some weatherstrip adhesive on one side to keep them in place since the slot is .118" and the metal is only .045".

7366

That looks like it would work fine to me, CN... and the part isn't viewable in an assembled car in order for someone to compare to an original one (if someone cared that much?).. :)

PS. I looked on ebay and could not identify for certain the parts you purchased... If you have extra parts to sell, I'd be interested.. as well as knowing where you purchased them from? Let me know..

[chevynut]

Bamanomad, my only concern with the parts is the flaps are pretty thin. I think they'll work just fine though. Who knows how many cars have been driving around for decades without them. :)

[chevynut]

I think I finally understand all this tailgate cable stuff....maybe :D. The cable on a Nomad has to be longer than the cable on a regular wagon, because the tailgate travel is longer on a Nomad. It leans forward quite a bit more and to go flat it travels through more of an angle than a wagon's tailgate. Since the cable guides/stops are in the same place, the Nomad cable has to be longer.

So that means the cable clevis on a Nomad also travels further into the quarter panel area. To allow this, the hole in the baffle has to be larger, hence the grommet. I believe, but I'm not absolutely sure, that based on this the wagon cable clevis doesn't have to go through the baffle hole. That's how they're able to get away with only a 1" hole, which would barely be big enough for the clevis. I still wonder if the regular wagons had grommets in those holes but Robert's pics show no evidence of them as far as I can tell. I think I'd put them in. ;)

[chevynut]

Thanks for the mirror info Bamanomad. I went by your original measurement showing the front of the mirror 4" behind the a-pillar and marked both sides. These are the mirrors I have....the passenger side is convex. Note the plastic/rubber gasket that goes around the base and shows when mounted.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/f5EAAOSwCmZZOr5J/s-l500.jpg





Here's one like it, but it's mounted a lot further forward than yours.

http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/data/3537/Mirror2.jpg

[BamaNomad]

I think I finally understand all this tailgate cable stuff....maybe :D. The cable on a Nomad has to be longer than the cable on a regular wagon, because the tailgate travel is longer on a Nomad. It leans forward quite a bit more and to go flat it travels through more of an angle than a wagon's tailgate. Since the cable guides/stops are in the same place, the Nomad cable has to be longer.

So that means the cable clevis on a Nomad also travels further into the quarter panel area. To allow this, the hole in the baffle has to be larger, hence the grommet. I believe, but I'm not absolutely sure, that based on this the wagon cable clevis doesn't have to go through the baffle hole. That's how they're able to get away with only a 1" hole, which would barely be big enough for the clevis. I still wonder if the regular wagons had grommets in those holes but Robert's pics show no evidence of them as far as I can tell. I think I'd put them in. ;)

I've never worked on a std wagon or owned one, so I'm 'blank' about the std wagons, but I did measure the Nomad cables I have (45" from end of ball to hole in the clevis), and I also measured the 'range' of the reel (43"). It would help clarify all this if someone with std wagon parts did a similar measurement for comparison?

PS. It seems to me that the added distance in motion (from closed to open tailgate) would be accommodated in the REEL, rather than the cable length?? Do the tailgates on std wagons open all the way flat?

[BamaNomad]

Thanks for the mirror info Bamanomad. I went by your original measurement showing the front of the mirror 4" behind the a-pillar and marked both sides. These are the mirrors I have....the passenger side is convex. Note the plastic/rubber gasket that goes around the base and shows when mounted.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/f5EAAOSwCmZZOr5J/s-l500.jpg

Here's one like it, but it's mounted a lot further forward than yours.


Your repro mirrors appear design-consistent with the original mirrors on the two cars I pictured, but the mounted location on the one you pictured is VERY MUCH more forward than the original factory position. Based on my limited sample size (Nomads and Sedans), it seems that all the mirrors were mounted in the same location (on the driver's side) - Trifives were not outfitted with RH mirrors from the factory!).

Perhaps a RH mirror with a convex surface (would widen the field) and alleviate the issue I raised in my previous post...

I was wrong about having an NOS mirror in the box. I looked yesterday and couldn't find one. I had a box 'hand labeled' 57 NOS mirror, but once I opened it, it was clearly NOT a TriFive mirror... I don't even know how long I have had it or where I got it.. :)

The original mirrors on the two cars I pictured seem to have thin rubber gaskets between the mirror and door (which are deteriorated) and I seem to remember from installing an NOS one long ago that the thin gaskets were difficult to keep positioned when installing the mirror, so in that sense, the plastic 'gasket' is probably better even if not original.

[chevynut]

Did some reading on mirror position last night and it seems you have to watch out for a couple of things....one being able to see past the vent window, and the other being able to OPEN the vent window without hitting the mirror. Some guys complain there's not enough adjustability in the passenger side mirror to see the side of the car, but I think the convex one addresses that.

I'm going to mount my driver's seat and the vent windows and see how it all works out before I start drilling. ;)

[chevynut]

PS. It seems to me that the added distance in motion (from closed to open tailgate) would be accommodated in the REEL, rather than the cable length?? Do the tailgates on std wagons open all the way flat?

I'm pretty sure that both tailgates are supposed to lay flat when opened.

Ecklers sells two different cables


Chevy Tailgate Cable, Nomad, 1955-1957
Reproduction Of Original
45-1/8" Overall Length
2 Required Per Car


Tailgate Support Cable, Wagon, 1955-1957
Reproduction Of Original
Fits All Wagons Except Nomad & Sedan Delivery
37" Overall Length
2 Required Per Car

[chevynut]

Today I finished plug welding my front seatbelt b-pillar mounts and ground down the welds. Then used my 0.8mm tip touchup gun to do a little priming. I shot the baffles and my new tweeter mounts and touched up a few other small areas inside the car with PPG DPLF and I was surprised at how well the touchup gun worked. I thought it would be too small of a tip for primer but it works very well and it can handle small quantities of material and works great in small areas.

Over the weekend I sanded and primed the cargo floor plywood one more time with SPI black epoxy, and put it in storage until it's needed.

I also cut some spacers out of 1" DOM to use between the body and rotisserie arms when I get to that point.

Next I'll be installing the seals on the baffles and plug welding them in. Then working on finishing up some fiberglass work on the rear side panels......moving forward. :)

[BamaNomad]

CN? How do you plan on installing the cargo area plywood? In the factory, they apparently installed them with screws; not even sure there was any specified spacing or location...? I have a new floor in my 57, and I'd like to do something *better* in some respect... at least with specific screw placement? and I don't really like the screws poking thru the floor... Is adhesive a feasible alternative??

[NickP]

CN? How do you plan on installing the cargo area plywood? In the factory, they apparently installed them with screws; not even sure there was any specified spacing or location...? I have a new floor in my 57, and I'd like to do something *better* in some respect... at least with specific screw placement? and I don't really like the screws poking thru the floor... Is adhesive a feasible alternative??

Adhesive, though a viable means of attachment does spark a question. Would there ever be a need to remove the section?

[chevynut]

CN? How do you plan on installing the cargo area plywood?

I have a new custom cargo floor with new tubular steel bracing. I'm using 1/4-20 flat head screws to hold it down. The screws go into the bracing and don't show under the car. If I were you I'd consider screwing it in from below the car with the screw heads showing under the floor. That would look better than having the screws sticking out the bottom, imo.

7370

[Custer55]

Another option to hold the plywood in place would be to layout the attachment pattern on the plywood, place it in the car and then drill through the plywood and the floor pan at the same time with a small bit (1/8" or so) so the holes in the plywood and floor pan would be registered to each other. Then remove the plywood and drill out the holes in the floor pan for nutserts, 1/4" as Lazlo used would be good, then drill out the plywood for the 1/4" fasteners and every thing will line up to re-install. The nutserts with bolts would look better underneath than plain screws sticking through the floor pan.
Brian

[chevynut]

What I did with my other plywood on top of my "package shelf" is use t-nuts on top and 10-32 screws from below. I also used 8-32 t-nuts to hold my rear speakers to the plywood and 1/4-20 t-nuts for my rear seat back brackets. This helps keep regular wood or sheetmetal screws from tearing out of the wood.

http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/12012301/images/t-nuts-stainless-steel.jpg

[BamaNomad]

I like both those ideas better than the factory method, in fact, I'm wondering if following CN's last suggestion with Tnuts on top and screws in from the bottom would look better from the bottom, and even allow for the possibility of removing the cargo plywood (with linoleum) intact (although I cannot imagine why I might want to do that).. :)

Would you fellas suggest using something between the plywood and the floor (besides adhesive). A long while ago I was thinking 30 lb tarpaper, but now maybe the 'carsinsulation' or 'dynamat' material might be better...?

[WagonCrazy]

I believe, but I'm not absolutely sure, that based on this the wagon cable clevis doesn't have to go through the baffle hole.

I can confirm that's how it worked on my 9 passenger wagon. With the gate closed, you could reach up inside the wheelwell and get to the clevis pins. They did not retract thru that baffle hole...
And I don't remember seeing a rubber grommet. It may have been long gone from 50 years of use though...

[chevynut]

The bulb seal material arrived and I attached it to the baffles. This seal has a larger bulb than what Robert used, I think, and it's pretty much fully compressed inside the quarter. I think it looks pretty good for a home-made piece. :)

I still have to plug weld them in but may wait until I trial fit my wheelhouse seals to do so. I don't want any problems putting them in.

I may even use this type of bulb on the wheelhouses, and for sure on my front fender shields. I have two sets of the stock split rubber I'll try first.

7379

7380

[chevynut]

I tried installing my original-type wheelhouse seals and found out it's a bitch to get them in, especially near the rockers. I think they need to be installed before final blocking or they may affect the panel slightly. I tried starting one about a foot above the rocker and pulling it down to the bottom, but it doesn't move very easily. Have you guys installed these? Do they need some sort of lube like soapy water? Any other tricks?

At one time I thought I'd trial fit them and remove them until after paint, then put them in. Now I'm thinking it would be easier to install them and mask them off if I don't want them painted. I'm afraid I might damage the panels trying to get them in after paint. Any thoughts? I considered using the bulb seals there and the type I have does fit and are a lot easier to install, but don't seem to seal as tightly as the original type.

[BamaNomad]

Is this the part you installed? stock type? weren't the originals stapled to the inner wheelhouse?

I assisted a friend Wednesday installing a different type (he obtained from Woody's, but I couldn't find it in their product list). It had a metal reinforced plastic coated 'clip' on one edge and maybe a 2" wide seal from that. It was difficult to install (My knuckles have missing skin from rubbing against the inside of the quarter while pushing those on the inner wheelhouse). He said that Woody's told him these were 'easier' to install than originals, and they don't have to be stapled.

Edit: The second photo shown is the seal we installed... I found it on the woody's site finally.
http://cdn3.volusion.com/tafrw.fremz/v/vspfiles/photos/DAN-851-2.jpg?1408446380
http://cdn3.volusion.com/tafrw.fremz/v/vspfiles/photos/WHR-IQS-5557-2T.jpg?1461046768
http://www.woodyshotrodz.com/product-p/whr-iqs-5557.htm

[chevynut]

Thanks BN! :) I'm not much of a fan of that Woody's seal just by looking at the cross-section. When installed, it seems to me like it would want to twist in one direction and try to come off the wheelhouse sheetmetal since it's non-symmetrical. Most of my wheelhouse to quarter panel gap is pretty uniform in the 1/2" to 5/8" range, but it narrows down to around 3/8" to 1/2" or so at the bottom at the quarter panel (I haven't measured it). That's still room for the stock-type seal you posted above, once you get it in. It just seems to me the Woody's seal would not want to stay on unless it was stapled or screwed in place. The "bulb" type seal like I used on the baffles and like Robert used on his baffles and wheelhouse seems like a better alternative to me. It slides on easily,is symmetrical, it's soft, weather resistant, and flattens down where needed. I think a 3/4" or 1" bulb would work well.
http://cdn3.volusion.com/tafrw.fremz/v/vspfiles/photos/WHR-IQS-5557-3T.jpg?1461046768
Here's the bulb seal I used. It fits across the gap everywhere but it's not really tight:

7381

[chevynut]

"Fender"??

http://image.superchevy.com/f/131635337+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/woodys-hot-rods-1955-giveaway-car-17-seal.jpg

16. This seal, designed by Woody’s, wraps around the inner fender and keeps moisture from getting in between it and the outer fender. The yellow section in the center has small teeth that rigidly lock the seal in place once it is applied. The flexible, tapered edge allows it to form to the fender for a watertight seal.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/1507-how-this-1955-chevy-could-end-up-in-your-garage/

[chevynut]

Here's some discussion on the subject that I forgot about because it's been so long. LMAO! :D

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/137404/

https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40927

[BamaNomad]

What they said is correct except for saying it sealed to the 'fender'.. it actually seals to the inside of the quarter panel via the soft rubber... (we had to 'slit' the soft rubber seal in a few places around the wheelhouse where it wanted to 'bow'; after slitting, it laid up tight to the quarter all the way around. Knowing how difficult it was to get it seated, I don't think it's going to come off!)

Here is a photo of it installed:

[chevynut]

Thanks for the pic BN. How did it fit down by the rockers? Was the gap tighter there? I was told I should put them in before paint and make sure they don't distort the quarter panel.

If you looked at the links I posted you'll see that it's supposedly "easy" to install the stock-type seals :p. I already have two sets of them so I think I'll continue trying to get them in and if I can't I'll consider the Woody's seals or the bulb seals. I like the design of the stock-type seals if I can get them installed. Mine certainly aren't what I'd call "soft" like a door weatherstrip. They're solid rubber, not foam.

[BamaNomad]

Thanks for the pic BN. How did it fit down by the rockers? Was the gap tighter there? I was told I should put them in before paint and make sure they don't distort the quarter panel.

If you looked at the links I posted you'll see that it's supposedly "easy" to install the stock-type seals :p. I already have two sets of them so I think I'll continue trying to get them in and if I can't I'll consider the Woody's seals or the bulb seals. I like the design of the stock-type seals if I can get them installed. Mine certainly aren't what I'd call "soft" like a door weatherstrip. They're solid rubber, not foam.

Yes, it was tighter and one has less room to work. We kinda 'got it started' by the rocker (at the front end), then worked towards the middle. In the middle it's easier (but not *easy*) to get it in place; then we worked to the rear. Once it's mostly in place, one can go back around and using your fingers between the quarter and the seal, squeeze it further into place. The backside of my middle fingers are mostly missing the skin now from rubbing/scrubbing against the inner side of the quarter! We used our fingers rather than any type of tool in order to prevent damage to the quarter (it was already painted); it may have flexed a little as we worked around the wheelhouse, but not enough to damage the quarter. I'd say the gap on his car was around 5/8" (certainly no more than 3/4"), and got closer to 1/2" down by the rocker on the front side. I think if I'd been working by myself, I'd have 'given up'.. :) but with the two of us swapping out turns scrubbing our fingers and giving encouragement, we got it totally tight on the wheelhouse all the way around.

I read your posted links; RickL mentioned he had some from H&H that were softer? I need to purchase and install some on my red 57 Nomad; I like how the Woody's stuff seals off and looks, but it was 3X the price of the original type. Nor do I want to have to 'staple' them to the wheelhouse. Maybe obtain the softer ones referenced by RickL and use a little adhesive??

The Woody's tech told my friend Richard that the ones he purchased were 'better and easier to install' than the originals... for whatever that is worth. He may have been comparing them to stapling the originals?

The bulb seals you referenced *appear* to be easier than either to install? if they seal off against the quarter then maybe that's the way to go?

[chevynut]

Well I got them installed. I found it was a TON easier when I lubed them.....I used a mixture of water and Simple Green. I started at the rocker as you did, after trimming the seal to match the angle. I installed the seal about 3-4" and pulled it down to the rocker and worked my way around. It's not that bad when you figure out how to do it, but I still wouldn't say it's "easy" to do. You have to get the inside of the seal flared out like the outside on the stock-type, which I don't think you have to do on the Woody's seals. But I like the double seal the original style provides.

If you get the seal over the wheelhouse sheetmetal you can work the inside of the seal with your fingers and a smooth flat object. I used the handle of a pair of pliers, but I'm make sure they were covered with plastic if you're dealing with a painted car. Once you get the seal "flared" on the inside a little, you can put the tool between the seal and quarter panel and just pull it along the length of the seal to "flip" the inside lip where it belongs. It helps to lube the tool too.

Now that I have them in I'm going to finish the blocking of the car with them installed, and I may still remove them and reinstall them after painting. I will probably use some sort of textured finish in the wheelwells and I think it would be cleaner to leave them out for applying that. Once they're installed, I'll probably run a bead of some sort of adhesive or sealer between the seal lip and the wheelhouse sheetmetal. I made a joint at the back because they don't make the seals long enough to go all the way down. So I'll probably seal that with some black RTV or something like that.

One question. I once saw where someone said the Nomads and wagons had a brace between the wheel opening on the quarter and the wheelhouse flap. Does yours? My lower flap on the passenger side is removable to access my battery. That allows the quarter panel to move away from the seal on that side. I may have to add some sort of a brace to keep the quarter panel from moving.

7383

7384

7385

7386



This is INSIDE the quarter panel...


7387

[BamaNomad]

CN: Your seal looks great as installed. Was that one of the 'original type' seals that you had previously stated was 'rubber'? Is it your impression that those will need mechanical retention to stay in place (adhesive or screws or staples??)...??

Yes, my '56 Nomad has a brace that runs from the rear of the wheelwell back towards the inner splash. I will get a photo for you..

Edit: actually two photos: 1st is from the LR of the 56 Nomad. 2nd is from the RR of the 57 Nomad.

[chevynut]

Thanks BN....Yes I used the Danchuk stock-type seals. I think they turned out good.

My car didn't seem to have any braces back there, but there's a lot of stuff I forgot about in the decades I've owned it :geek:. Was that brace only on wagons and Nomads or did sedans and hardtops have it too? Seems like all of them would need it.
Also, I wonder why they didn't just use a short brace and attach it to the wheelwell flap near the quarter panel instead of on the opposite side up so high.

I think I may plug weld a small tab onto the quarter panel lip to bolt a brace to instead of running a bolt through it like they did stock. I'd rather not have a bolt head sticking out like that. Just another damned thing to do. :D

[chevynut]

Is it your impression that those will need mechanical retention to stay in place (adhesive or screws or staples??)...??

Personally I don't think the seal is going anywhere because it's "balanced" across the wheelhouse and it would have to twist to come out. I think GM stapled them because they installed them before the quarter panels were installed. After final installation I'll probably use some urethane caulk between the seal and the wheelhouse, and maybe a small bead between the seal and quarter panel just to make it leakproof. I really don't think anything is needed, though.

I personally like the stock design a lot better than the Woody's design seals. Just make sure the lip on the inside is turned correctly if you use them. Oh yeah....I used two sets of seals, and didn't use the flat one that comes in the set. Danchuk should sell these extra long as an option.

[Troy]

The bulb seal material arrived and I attached it to the baffles. This seal has a larger bulb than what Robert used, I think, and it's pretty much fully compressed inside the quarter. I think it looks pretty good for a home-made piece. :)

I still have to plug weld them in but may wait until I trial fit my wheelhouse seals to do so. I don't want any problems putting them in.

I may even use this type of bulb on the wheelhouses, and for sure on my front fender shields. I have two sets of the stock split rubber I'll try first.
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7380&d=1498255711

7380

Chevynut, I see that what looks like the inside of a quarter weld is unground, do you plan on cleaning it up or is it out of site?

[NickP]

That would be a waste of time. It's well hidden.

[BamaNomad]

Personally I don't think the seal is going anywhere because it's "balanced" across the wheelhouse and it would have to twist to come out. I think GM stapled them because they installed them before the quarter panels were installed. After final installation I'll probably use some urethane caulk between the seal and the wheelhouse, and maybe a small bead between the seal and quarter panel just to make it leakproof. I really don't think anything is needed, though.

I personally like the stock design a lot better than the Woody's design seals. Just make sure the lip on the inside is turned correctly if you use them. Oh yeah....I used two sets of seals, and didn't use the flat one that comes in the set. Danchuk should sell these extra long as an option.

CN: I appreciate your comments and I think I agree re making the seals longer... Wonder if making that suggestion to Danchuk would make a difference? :)

[Rick_L]

As I said in those old linked posts, the seals I got from H&H are relatively soft and were easy for me to install on my car. If the gap was smaller they might be more difficult. As I posted back then, I was able to install them with my fingers, no tools. Mine don't "push" on the quarter panel.

It would be "nice" if they made a "long" seal like the front part for modified cars, so you wouldn't have a joint or discontinuity when using two sets and deleting the original flat seal for the rear 1/3. But I'll bet there would be no cost savings, and I don't see a big deal with the fact that it's not one piece.

I also don't think that adhesive is needed to "seal" either the outside or inside. The adhesive I'll use on the inside is just to make sure it will stay there. But there's little risk.

And for the record, in my world "quarter panel" = "fender", at least on a 50s or later car.

[chevynut]

It would be "nice" if they made a "long" seal like the front part for modified cars, so you wouldn't have a joint or discontinuity when using two sets and deleting the original flat seal for the rear 1/3. But I'll bet there would be no cost savings, and I don't see a big deal with the fact that it's not one piece.

Of course there would be a cost savings. You get two of the split seals and two of the flat seals in one set, so you have to buy TWO sets which doubles the cost. If they made the split seals 18" longer they could eliminate the flat seals and you'd only have to buy one set. I don't see how it couldn't be cheaper, at least for them. I have one whole split seal left and 4 flat ones.


I also don't think that adhesive is needed to "seal" either the outside or inside. The adhesive I'll use on the inside is just to make sure it will stay there. But there's little risk.

Probably not needed but doesn't hurt either, imo. My car won't see much driving in water.

[chevynut]

I'm trying to figure out how much more work to do on my car myself before I take it to Matt, my painter. I am still working on a few interior things and will be meeting with Larry my interior guy tomorrow to finalize the tan leather perforation pattern and the charcoal leather order. After the interior stuff I want to do is done I need to get the car ready for paint. I have the rotisserie ready for the body.

I'm paying Matt by the hour to do as much or as little as I want him to do. I originally only asked him to shoot the exterior paint and clear it, but there's more than that to do. He's seen the car and ran his hands up an down it and said it looked really good over two years ago :p. I'm done priming and sanding the roof until it gets to his shop where I'll hit it one last time. I still have a little priming and blocking to do on the rest of the body, doors, fenders, hood, and tailgate to make sure they're all ready, but they're really close.

One question is what I do inside the car, and whether I have him finish all the under-hood sheetmetal or paint it myself. The radiator support is done (painted with the frame) but the covers need to be painted on both sides. I'm still considering painting the entire interior of the car, which I likely will do myself. I'm thinking of checking if I can have a single-stage paint mixed to get fairly close match to my exterior color....it can be a less expensive paint. I know it'll mostly be covered, but even new cars are painted inside and out so it seems like the right thing to do.

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm going with some sort of textured finish in the front and rear wheelwells, painted car color. I see lots of high end car builders doing this but I'm not sure what to use or whether I should do that myself. The upper dash is leather so Larry said I can leave that epoxy primed but the lower dash is going to be charcoal so I may just paint it all charcoal....with the ashtray and glove box door. That's something I could do myself too, but I'm not sure it's worth it. It seems like it might take my painter several hours to mask everything, shoot the dash, let it dry, then mask the dash to get ready to shoot everything else. I'll probably help him with all of it anyhow.

The bottom of the car is currently planned to be car color (orange) with a matte clear. That may extend up the firewall to the hood seal unless I change my mind about it :eek:. I go back and forth on whether the inner fenders would look better orange or charcoal in the engine bay and whether matte or gloss clear. The air intake will be orange with gloss clear since it will flow into the upper intake.

So the things I am going back and forth on is whether I should finish all those areas myself before the car goes to my painter? I probably need to ask Matt, but opinions are welcome. ;)

[LEE T]

I'm pretty sure that both tailgates are supposed to lay flat when opened.



Don't be concerned when your tail gate doesn't lay flat, at least not like a pick up.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx119/from7/Forum%20photos/2cb6b6c5-1178-458d-886d-c2b5680c761e_zps6ds7nkwy.jpg

[Bitchin'57]

I'm in the camp that votes to paint the interior with single stage that matches the exterior color, and paint the lower half of the dash yourself. I would paint the dash first, cover it, and then shoot the interior with the single stage. That's what I plan to do on my car, but then again, I AM the painter for my car. ;)

[chevynut]

Thanks for the feedback on painting, Bitchin57. I'm going to see if I can get the paint in single stage urethane. I talked to my interior guy today and he says to use body schutz in the wheelwells to protect them. I see 3M has a product for that. I'm not sure how it's different than tinted bedliner.

[SonicRaT]

I used 3M Body Shutz a number of years back on an '86 Silverado to line the inner fenders. It seemed to behave more like a non-hardening, "tar" like coating (I believe it is still rubber/asphalt based?). It did harden quite a bit, but when something became lodged and dragged over the surface, the result looked like "streaks" as opposed to scratching and scoring. Sometimes the area was slightly tacky where it had rubbed the coating off. This was about a month after it was sprayed. I recall it was labeled as "non-paintable" and lived up to that name -- we tried painting over a sample to see what happened and it interacted negatively with the paint and had trouble curing / discolored the paint. That was nearly 10 years ago, so I'm not sure how much formulas have changed since then.

I'm with Bitchin' on a single stage interior -- although, possibly for different reasons. I've been in so many cars with a high gloss b/c dash and interior that the damned things just blind me in the light. I like the balance that the single stage gives when cut and buff -- still good shine, but without the high gloss.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I try to use Plasti-dip for a lot of different stuff. It's cheap, easy, tough, endless colors, and easily peeled off if needed. Will stick to almost anything clean, even chrome. I would hate to try and remove bed liner, or anything similar for a repair, or mod.

[chevynut]

I used 3M Body Shutz a number of years back on an '86 Silverado to line the inner fenders. It seemed to behave more like a non-hardening, "tar" like coating (I believe it is still rubber/asphalt based?). It did harden quite a bit, but when something became lodged and dragged over the surface, the result looked like "streaks" as opposed to scratching and scoring. ['quote]

Looks like it's still rubber and asphalt. Not using that crap. :geek:

Material Natural Rubber, Asphalt

http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Body-Schutz-Rubberized-Coating-Black?N=5002385+3293241345&rt=rud

What are all the top builders using? I know Troy Trepanier uses some textured coating under some of his cars. It needs to be either tintable or suitable for painting over with BC/CC. Seems like a tintable urethane bed liner would save a lot of work. I don't want it rough like some of the bedliners I've seen (LineX), just some texture to it. Southern Polyurethanes (SPI) used to make some bedliners but they don't sell it anymore.

This looks good to me:

http://www.spray-lining.com/images/Muskingham_08.JPG



[quote] I've been in so many cars with a high gloss b/c dash and interior that the damned things just blind me in the light. I like the balance that the single stage gives when cut and buff -- still good shine, but without the high gloss.

My upper dash will be padded charcoal leather, and Larry wants to cover the beltline moldings in charcoal leather too. If I end up painting them they will probably be BC/CC with matte clear or PPG DBI. The lower dash will be charcoal BC/CC and the top of the console will likely be painted orange or charcoal with gloss clear.

The "interior" I'm talking about painting with single stage is the underside of the roof, inside firewall, inner quarters, interior floor pans and cargo floor. Everything outside the car and under the hood will be BC/CC.

[chevynut]

TCPGlobal sells this "Custom Coat" 2K Urethane tintable clear bedliner that looks like it's Raptor Liner by UPOL.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/CUS-KIT-TBL-4-GUN_2.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwp83KBRC2kev0tZzExLkBEiQAY xYXOnN9-mGVR4HK-xQP-whbXJbqOgF446mICSLsLAYH-vUaAm8q8P8HAQ#.WVSEKVGQzyE

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Raptor-Tintable-Urethane-Spray-On-Truck-Bed-Liner-Spray-Gun-4-Liters/50626630?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1250&adid=22222222227038240028&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=c&wl3=85426561010&wl4=pla-193447266290&wl5=9028895&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112562674&wl11=online&wl12=50626630&wl13=&veh=sem#about-item

The descriptions are identical but TCPGlobal has a better price.

SEM has a tintable bed liner too.

http://www.repaintsupply.com/sem-42260-rock-it-liner-tintable-bedliner-p1195.html

I don't want to buy enough to do a whole truck bed so these smaller kits make sense to me.

[BamaNomad]

You can find Raptor tintablekits available for around $100 via ebay (shipped to you).. black is less $$... They also sell smaller kits (1 liter)..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-POL-UP4802-Raptor-Tintable-Urethane-Truck-Bed-Liner-1-Liter-kit/272330556330?_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D 1%26asc%3D44728%26meid%3D5db37c1f190b48d2bb980d99d bd63fa6%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

[Bitchin'57]

This is a DIY 2 part product called Monstaliner. It's available in 39 colors. I used it on my last Jeep project. I plan to use it on the underside and wheel wells of my '57. The more you reduce it, the finer the texture. It's sprayed with a schutz gun. http://www.monstaliner.com/

http://hemiduster.com/monstarearflares1.jpg

[NickP]

My guess, any texture will hold grime from the road better than a smooth surface. More cleaning for your shown cars, if you drive them. JMHO.

[hotrod4dr55]

I love watching your progress and quality of craftmanship! I used two different kinds of tintable bed liner under my car. I liked the SEM Rock-it liner the best because the texture was more subtle. I went back and forth on using no texture, but I've been happy with it after doing it. For the floor pans I tinted the liner, then I sprayed a coat of base on top of it and then cleared coated it. It wipes clean easily with the clear on top.

I used a black version from my paint store (I cannot remember the name of it, but they carry mostly AkzoNobel products) for the wheel wells. It was fine for the wheel wells, but I would not have been pleased with it for the floor pans as it was thicker and had much more texture...and it was quite a bit more expensive. I don't have a great pictures, but here are a few:
74057406

Here is a picture of the trunk without any extra base or clear:
7407

[chevynut]

BN, it looks like TCPGlobal still has the best deal at $99.99 with a free spray gun and free shipping. The best I see on eBay is $103.89 without the gun.

Bitchin', I read that Monstaliner was supposed to be applied with a roller (that's what their site says too), but I don't see why that's the only way to apply it. Also, their tintable version is more expensive than Raptor. I want the wheelwells to match the car color so I'll tint it myself. They say you add 3 ounces of tint.

HR4D55, your car looks great. I've read several places that some guys say NOT to spray anything over the top of bedliners because it will eventually peel off. Some guys have had that happen. I've also read that the tintable versions do a great job of matching the car color so I'm not sure why I would want to over-coat it. Any experience with tintable bedliners, especially with metallic paints?

I want a fairly smooth surface but probably with a mild orange peel-like surface that's easy to clean. One company I found has a clearcoat that you can apply over the colored bedliner to make it smoother and shinier and I think it's just clear bedliner. I think the Raptor Liner is clear so I'm not sure why you couldn't do that with it. I don't think I want to use it on the entire underside of the car, though. I may change my mind if it looks good in the wheelwells.

I also read where some guys say just pour some of your urethane paint into the tintable bedliner, and others say to get just the solvent-based "tint" from a paint supplier without the "binder". Not sure what the heck that means.

[chevynut]

By the way HR4D55 and others, does it make sense to use the bedliner in the area inside the rear quarters too, around the taillights and bumper? I've heard that rocks can cause paint to crack if something isn't done to protect the underside in that area. Seems like a good idea to me but I don't know if there's any downside.

And don't say I'm not going to drive it......I noticed Dan is driving Bruiser, so I think I can drive my car too. :D

[Bitchin'57]

Bitchin', I read that Monstaliner was supposed to be applied with a roller (that's what their site says too), but I don't see why that's the only way to apply it. Also, their tintable version is more expensive than Raptor. I want the wheelwells to match the car color so I'll tint it myself. They say you add 3 ounces of tint.

Monstaliner CAN be rolled, its not mandatory. I tried rolling it, and spraying it is MUCH faster and easier. But, it sounds like you want a product that has almost no texture, so Monstaliner isn't for you.

[hotrod4dr55]

BN, it looks like TCPGlobal still has the best deal at $99.99 with a free spray gun and free shipping. The best I see on eBay is $103.89 without the gun.

Bitchin', I read that Monstaliner was supposed to be applied with a roller (that's what their site says too), but I don't see why that's the only way to apply it. Also, their tintable version is more expensive than Raptor. I want the wheelwells to match the car color so I'll tint it myself. They say you add 3 ounces of tint.

HR4D55, your car looks great. I've read several places that some guys say NOT to spray anything over the top of bedliners because it will eventually peel off. Some guys have had that happen. I've also read that the tintable versions do a great job of matching the car color so I'm not sure why I would want to over-coat it. Any experience with tintable bedliners, especially with metallic paints?

I want a fairly smooth surface but probably with a mild orange peel-like surface that's easy to clean. One company I found has a clearcoat that you can apply over the colored bedliner to make it smoother and shinier and I think it's just clear bedliner. I think the Raptor Liner is clear so I'm not sure why you couldn't do that with it. I don't think I want to use it on the entire underside of the car, though. I may change my mind if it looks good in the wheelwells.

I also read where some guys say just pour some of your urethane paint into the tintable bedliner, and others say to get just the solvent-based "tint" from a paint supplier without the "binder". Not sure what the heck that means.

This is the first time I used the bedliner products. For the tintable I just poured the urethane base into the product per the instructions and the match was perfect. I was a bit nervous at first because the product is milky looking and not clear. The product I used called for the paint as the tint, but I believe some use their own tint. I went with a product that used the actual paint for the car since I wanted the color to be exact. I didn't have a metallic color, so I cannot answer the question on metallic colors.

I originally was going to just do the wheel wells and inner side of the quarters and trunk, but decided to do the floor pans too. I wanted to do something inside the quarters because both times I had the car painted I eventually ended up with a few stars in the paint under the tail lights from rocks hitting. I also hadn't planned to clear it at first, but I thought it would be so much easier to clean underneath and figured my product would be compatible with urethane products since they combined per the instructions. I did roll the dice on this, but it still looks great after 3 years, but I haven't drove my car yet. I didn't clear inside the trunk, since I figured it shouldn't see much dirt.

Have you looked into the rock/chip guard product? I've seen it on several Toyota's. I have a Toyota Tundra and it has it along the rockers. I think I would have looked into this more if I did it again. I used to only see it in a spray can, which is why I didn't look into this too much before. However, I noticed recently SEM has a 2k system called Pro-Tex 2k Chip Guard that may be more for what you are looking for keeping the base color, but adding a more durable clear protection. I'm sure there are other manufactures other than SEM.

[chevynut]

HR4D55, why did you tint AND overcoat the bed liner? Sounds like it matched well before the base was applied. What color is that? :geek:

So did you spray the bed liner around the taillights too? Your floor looks really nice.

I ordered a kit from TCP Global this morning since I believe it's the Raptor Liner with a different label. If I don't like it I can always use it on something else. I'm building a 2 ATV hauler for my truck bed and I need to coat it too. :)

The SEM Pro Tex stuff sounds just like bedliner. What's the difference?:?

https://www.semproducts.com/refinish-chip-guards/pro-textm-2k-chip-guard-kit



(https://www.semproducts.com/refinish-chip-guards/pro-textm-2k-chip-guard-kit)

[hotrod4dr55]

I wasn't planning to clear at first, but I went slightly light on the coverage for a lighter texture. Plus, I was afraid it was going to be hard to clean after seeing it. Spraying the base covered the areas that were light in covering the gray epoxy primer...I just put a light coat of base to ensure coverage was good. I did spray inside the quarters by the tail lights...I basically sprayed a few coats of SPI gray epoxy primer and then put bedliner underneath from the front floor area behind the firewall all the way to the tailpan. I used black inside the wheel wells, but body color everywhere else. The color is a late 60's Ford Mustang color, but it is close to the factory sea mist green...just slightly more turquoise. Here's a better picture of the color:
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After reading the Pro-tex it does sound similar to bedliner and has to be tinted. I saw this at the store and just assumed it was clear like the stuff that comes in a can. I would think there has to be a product that is clear and 2k though . My Tundra has it along the bottom and it just looks like a heavy orange peel clear. My truck is a gray metallic, and it looks the same under.

[55 Rescue Dog]

To me anyway, anything other than black on inner wheel wells are visually distracting by taking your eyes away from the exterior lines of the car. You can't look away. I bought a new white Chevy truck years ago and couldn't stop looking at the white inner rear fenders. After I painted them black the truck looked like it was suppose to. As far as textured finishes on anything, anything other than black very seldom looks better. and would be another focal point. Show off the shiny good looking parts.

[chevynut]

Nice car HR4D55. Looks like the body and paint work turned out great. How soon before you're driving it?

According to the tintable Raptor Liner specs the stuff is clear. I'll post a confirmation when I get it.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I wasn't planning to clear at first, but I went slightly light on the coverage for a lighter texture. Plus, I was afraid it was going to be hard to clean after seeing it. Spraying the base covered the areas that were light in covering the gray epoxy primer...I just put a light coat of base to ensure coverage was good. I did spray inside the quarters by the tail lights...I basically sprayed a few coats of SPI gray epoxy primer and then put bedliner underneath from the front floor area behind the firewall all the way to the tailpan. I used black inside the wheel wells, but body color everywhere else. The color is a late 60's Ford Mustang color, but it is close to the factory sea mist green...just slightly more turquoise. Here's a better picture of the color:
7419

After reading the Pro-tex it does sound similar to bedliner and has to be tinted. I saw this at the store and just assumed it was clear like the stuff that comes in a can. I would think there has to be a product that is clear and 2k though . My Tundra has it along the bottom and it just looks like a heavy orange peel clear. My truck is a gray metallic, and it looks the same under.
Your 55 looks beautiful, but as what I was trying to convey, after a couple of seconds eyeing your car the first thing that I noticed were the body colored inner front fender extensions, which would be easy to change if you agree?

[SonicRaT]

I've used SEM Rock-it like HR4DR55 did above and found the texture to be rather subtle as well -- I'll be going with it again on my '57. I tinted it in the same fashion -- just pouring in paint to the mixture. This was a solid color, so can't comment on how it'll look with a metallic. It did match the rest of the body color just fine though, there wasn't any noticeable difference outside of the texture and shine. It cleaned up fairly well, but we never got it all that dirty to begin with.


To me anyway, anything other than black on inner wheel wells are visually distracting by taking your eyes away from the exterior lines of the car. You can't look away. I bought a new white Chevy truck years ago and couldn't stop looking at the white inner rear fenders. After I painted them black the truck looked like it was suppose to. As far as textured finishes on anything, anything other than black very seldom looks better. and would be another focal point. Show off the shiny good looking parts.

I don't think that problem is nearly as pronounced on the Tri-Five -- the inner fenders are hardly noticeable from most angles due to the rear quarter overlap and how far inset the fronts are. That, coupled with how low his car is, you're not likely to notice them unless you're getting up close and personal.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I know it might not show up much in person, but it pops right out in the picture at that angle.

[chevynut]

I personally like the front inner fender extensions to be body color. Then it doesn't look as much like an afterthought as if they were black. Mine will be body color...... I think they stick out more if they're not.

[hotrod4dr55]

Nice car HR4D55. Looks like the body and paint work turned out great. How soon before you're driving it?

According to the tintable Raptor Liner specs the stuff is clear. I'll post a confirmation when I get it.

Thanks, it's not my best paint job, but it wet sanded and buffed pretty good after painting it in my garage with poor lighting. I did block it pretty extensively, so I'm pleased with the straightness. I hope to be able to drive it in a month or two. I put the interior in last month. I'm only lacking a few odds and ends like finishing up the A/C, painting the garnish moldings, etc... It's been 15 years since this one has seen the road.

I forgot to mention I put tinted bedliner under the front fenders too, but I had the inner fenders and extensions powder coated satin black. The extensions are just not installed in the picture I posted. My grandmother bought this new, so I wanted a more stock look on mine other than the drivetrain, wheels and stance on this one. I personally the inner fenders and extensions body color on high end builds.

[Tabasco]

I don't understand why anyone would put expensive paint on the underside of the roof, inside firewall, inner quarters, interior floor pans and cargo floor. If these areas are covered with epoxy primer then they won't rust. And these areas won't show, so why do it?

I can see why Foose or Kendig would do it. They are charging six figures for custom builds. If the owner shows up occasionally to check on progress and everything is painted, then he thinks he is getting his money's worth. If you are building your own car in your shop, you are just wasting time and money to paint these areas.

But it is your time and money. If you have plenty of both, go for it. I'm short of both, so if it doesn't show on my cars it doesn't get painted.

[chevynut]

I don't understand why anyone would put expensive paint on the underside of the roof, inside firewall, inner quarters, interior floor pans and cargo floor. If these areas are covered with epoxy primer then they won't rust. And these areas won't show, so why do it?

A third of my firewall won't show and will be totally covered with inner fenders when the car is assembled, so why paint it all? :D There's a lot of stuff that I've done that won't show....it's just my nature to do the best job I can everywhere I can. I understand your point though, and I really need to get this thing done.

[55wagoncrazy]

I've been using the Raptor Bed liner for a while now. The tintable is not clear like a quart of cleat paint. It is milky. I believe this is due to the fact that it has a flattening agent in it. I have used it with different colors and also on my current sedan Delivery project. My Color is Regal Turquoise and is a metallic. You can see this in the finished product. I went on line and did some research about it. I found out that you can change the texture SIGNIFICANTLY by reducing it with urethane reducer. I like to spray it with a large tip primer gun and the texture is very nice. When I want it to be lumpy and look like factory undercoating, I use the gun supplied with the kit. Once you buy the gun, you can easily clean it and re-use it again and again.

You can use straight base or single stage paint to get the same result.

7481748274837484

[chevynut]

Finally got around to locating my outside rear-view mirrors. It's kinda hard to take a drill to a nice primed and blocked surface :eek:. I really debated what I wanted to do with them, but in the end I located the passenger side one and put the driver's side in the same place fore and aft. It ended up that the ideal location for me was about 3/8" behind the stock location, so I could see the entire passenger side mirror. With the convex passenger side mirror I can see the side of the car and a wide view behind me. Another project scratched off the list. :)

Instead of using the included sheetmetal screws for the rear mount, I epoxied some of these 10-32 nuts inside the door using some of my super-duty aircraft epoxy. I think they give a much more secure mounting. I was afraid the sheetmetal screw would be hard to "adjust" the height correctly, and it could rip the sheetmetal "threads" out easily if the mirror was bumped. The front screw is still a sheetmetal screw because it goes in at a slight angle.

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Here's the final locations.....the lines represents the "stock" location per BN.

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[BamaNomad]

That positioning looks great to me, CN... and the difference from stock is so slight, I don't think it would ever be detected by anyone who didn't know.. and the slightly rearward location will help viewability of the passenger side from the driver's seat. I think I will do the same on my '57 Nomad... :)

[chevynut]

Bamanomad, realize that I'm only 5' 7" so my seat is further forward than most guys by at least a couple of inches :eek:. In the "stock" location, my passenger mirror was only slightly blocked on the very edge by the window track but most of it was visible for me. Moving it back slightly made it all visible so that's what I decided to do. The convex mirror really helped and I had no problem getting it adjusted to the correct position.

[chevynut]

I've been working on finishing up the Nomad body quite a bit lately, and keep finding more details to take care of before paint. I found some stripped trim screw holes so I welded them up and re-drilled them.

I ordered one of the stainless liftgate weatherstrip retainers from Mr. Nomad and installed it. GM said it needed 13 screws but I found that out after I fitted it for nine 1/8" steel pop-rivets I plan to use at final assembly. $55 seems like a lot of money for a small piece of bent 22 gauge stainless, but I decided to fork it over instead of trying to make one. :razz:

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Next I took my sill covers and re-located the screw holes so they wouldn't show under the floor. They're inside the braces now....

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Then I did some filling and sanding on the lower part of the dash to make it straight so the valence halves fit tight.

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I installed my new instrument cluster bezel and didn't like the way it fit, so I did some metalworking and filling to tighten it up some. This is before....

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And this is after....

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I fixed what I thought was bad looking factory spots on the front of the b-pillars under the stainless drip rails. No pics yet of them fixed but this is what one side looked like before.

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I did a lot of work on the door jambs ad c-pillars and tailgate openings to smooth them and prep for paint.

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I've also done a bunch of seam-sealing with Evercoat 2K seam sealer and it's getting a lot closer to going on the rotisserie. One more coat of K36 on the body and another coat of SPI epoxy on the dash and I think I can put it on the rotisserie to finish up the bottom.

[567chevys]

Looks Good

going to be a very Nice Car soon


Sid

[chevynut]

Thanks Sid. I hope "soon" isn't another few years. :D :geek:

One thing I found out that may be of interest to other Nomad owners. After a few coats of K36 and some sanding, I tried to fit the stainless drip rail trim pieces and they wouldn't go on. You have to be VERY careful not to build up too much primer on the drip rails. I discussed this with Frank at Mr. Nomad and he mentioned that this is a common problem. So I sanded the primer back down to epoxy and will try to finish it off in one coat. I hope the BC/CC doesn't cause a problem as well or I'll be sanding most of the clear off :eek:.

I only have a few spots left where I need to spray the K36 again. Then I can start tackling the fenders, hood, and tailgate along with the rest of the under-hood sheetmetal. Lots of pieces to paint. :)

[chevynut]

Since I've been doing a lot of work on the Hemi 55 and building seat mounts I haven't worked on the Nomad that much lately. I try to work on it a little every day (except weekends) but it's been very little lately.

I got all the jambs primed and sanded, and primed again, and sanded again, and I finally got the body on the rotisserie yesterday to finish the underside. Contacted my painter and I'm trying to get him to confirm a timeframe for paint. I still have work to do on the doors, fenders, hood and tailgate but that shouldn't take too long. I think I can be ready for paint in 2-4 weeks, depending on what else I have going on.


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[Custer55]

Thanks Sid. I hope "soon" isn't another few years. :D :geek:

One thing I found out that may be of interest to other Nomad owners. After a few coats of K36 and some sanding, I tried to fit the stainless drip rail trim pieces and they wouldn't go on. You have to be VERY careful not to build up too much primer on the drip rails. I discussed this with Frank at Mr. Nomad and he mentioned that this is a common problem. So I sanded the primer back down to epoxy and will try to finish it off in one coat. I hope the BC/CC doesn't cause a problem as well or I'll be sanding most of the clear off :eek:.

I only have a few spots left where I need to spray the K36 again. Then I can start tackling the fenders, hood, and tailgate along with the rest of the under-hood sheetmetal. Lots of pieces to paint. :)

Never would have thought of the drip rails having to much paint on them. I wonder if it would make sense to take them back to bare metal and then file down the metal just a bit to avoid the problem after painting. It would sure suck to not be able to get the trim back on after the car is all painted!!

[chevynut]

Never would have thought of the drip rails having to much paint on them. I wonder if it would make sense to take them back to bare metal and then file down the metal just a bit to avoid the problem after painting. It would sure suck to not be able to get the trim back on after the car is all painted!!

Actually I think they're too "thick" side to side but I'm not sure. It would be hard to remove metal when it's only probably 20 gauge. When I tried to put the stainless over it, it wouldn't wrap around to the bottom of the roof at the door opening. I sanded a bunch of the primer off the sides of the drip rails and I guess I had better try the stainless on again to make sure it fits. Maybe it is too "tall" and I need to deal with it now because like you said it would suck to have to fix it after paint.

[WagonCrazy]

You're nearing the home stretch. Keep at it Laszlo...the hardest part of this whole project is dealing with the many decisions during prep-for-paint stage.
Thanks for posting your progress. It's inspirational for the rest of us.

[chevynut]

Thanks Paul. I'm nearing the point now where I'll need to decide about spraying the tintable bedliner myself or having Matt do it. I've never sprayed the stuff but it sounds like it's easy to do. The masking is probably going to be the hardest part. :)

[WagonCrazy]

Heck, you did everything else on this build...just spray that yourself. Its under the car...no one will see any rookie mistakes. Just do it.

[Bitchin'57]

Thanks Paul. I'm nearing the point now where I'll need to decide about spraying the tintable bedliner myself or having Matt do it. I've never sprayed the stuff but it sounds like it's easy to do. The masking is probably going to be the hardest part. :)
I gained experience spraying tintable bedliner when I built a Jeep Wrangler. Its very easy to spray, anyone can do it. Just follow the directions. As you said, the prep is the most time consuming part. The stuff I sprayed (Monstaliner) required about 80 psi, and any overspray will travel far, so cover everything and the floor within a 10 foot radius with plastic sheet.

I'm going to bedline the bottom of my '57. I'm going to paint the body on the rotisserie first , and then bedline it.

[chevynut]

Thought I'd update so you guys don't think I gave up. :)

I've been working a lot on the Nomad body prep lately along with working on the Hemi55. Got the body turned on it's side and finished a little bit of welding and grinding I needed to finish under the car. Then I seam-sealed everything with Evercoat 2K seam sealer. I sealed around all of my cargo floor braces as well as along the body braces and other joints. I did a little filling, sanded the entire underside of the car, and applied a coat of SPI epoxy. Then I sanded that and did a little more filling in places I missed before. After sanding that, I applied a second coat of SPI epoxy and that's where I'm at now. I'm not trying to make the bottom of the car like the outside, just address welds, dents, and a few factory defects in the braces and floor pans and make it as presentable as I can since it's not getting bedliner on it.

I also realized that I didn't do a very thorough job of blocking the rockers since I had to lay on the floor to do it, so I'm addressing that now. I'll probably do one more round of sanding and minor filling on the floor, then shoot the final coat of primer. Don't know if it will be SPI or PPG K36 but I want K36 on the rockers. After that last primer coat I can address the bed liner in the wheelwells and quarters, and the body will be ready for paint.

Oh yeah....I turned the body upside down and I'm still getting a little sand out of it. :eek: I blew everything out and I hope I now got it all. I'll probably roll it over a few more times just for fun. ;)

[chevynut]

The stuff I sprayed (Monstaliner) required about 80 psi, and any overspray will travel far, so cover everything and the floor within a 10 foot radius with plastic sheet.

I think I may plan to do mine outdoors, for that reason. Might have to wait for a warm day....it was 65 degrees at 6PM on Wednesday. :)

[hurddawg]

Progress is looking good Laszlo! Saw the video of the 502 fire up too, sounds great!
I need to work on my 4DHT...been sitting as a pile of parts for a few years now.

[WagonCrazy]

Good to hear you're under the Nomad again. :-)
We got a warm temp trend here too last weekend, so I prepped and sprayed epoxy primer on some front end sheet metal parts...so that I could continue assembly and wiring the front of the Nomad. Gawd this stuff takes alot of time and meticulous planning...

[TrifiveRichard]

CN, I noticed you use PPG K36, mixed as a high build primer I'm understanding. We've been using K38 for some years now for the high build, based on the PPG reps recommendation. We use the K36, mixed as a sealer prior to base coat. The K38 builds quicker and blocks nicely. fyi, Dick

[chevynut]

Dick, yes I've been using K36 as my final primer. For high build, I used Evercoat Slicksand and I love it. I did PPG DPLF as the first coat of epoxy, followed by Slicksand, then PPG K36. By the time I get to the K36 it's already blocked a couple of times.

My painter uses a product called All-U-Need by Clausen, and I tried it on a frame. He goes to bare metal, then sprays a thick coat of All-U-Need and blocks that down. He touches up any bare areas and low spots and just keeps blocking until the body is perfectly straight. Then he seals it and sprays the topcoat. All-U-Need is an interesting product.....it's a zinc-enriched, waterproof high-build polyester primer. It's like a modified Slicksand and it's fairly inexpensive. I like the way it sands after a couple of days. He's used it for 40 years and he's painted a lot of $1 million plus cars with it with no issues. He swears by it and says it really cuts prep time and cost. The damn PPG primers cost $300+ per gallon!

Today, due to my obsessive nature :p, I actually did a little more minor filling of the bottom of the car with U-Pol Dolphin Glaze, sanded all that, and did some more touchup of the sanded areas with SPI epoxy.

Next, hopefully tomorrow, I plan to finish blocking the lower quarters and rockers, final sand the touched-up areas on the bottom of the car, and shoot the K36. I'll probably just leave the areas that I'm going to spray the bedliner on in the SPI epoxy.

[TrifiveRichard]

the All-U-Need sounds interesting for frame work, who makes it and where can one get it?

[NickP]

the All-U-Need sounds interesting for frame work, who makes it and where can one get it?

https://www.clausenautobody.com/

[chevynut]

the All-U-Need sounds interesting for frame work, who makes it and where can one get it?

I blasted and sprayed a customer frame with it and I wish I knew about it when I did mine. It would have sure saved a lot of time without having to touch up the epoxy sand-throughs when sanding the Slicksand and the K36. I finished my frame using the same materials and process as the body. My painter uses it on bodies as well as frames and he swears by it.

The only place I'm aware of that you can buy it is from Clausen directly. The website only shows 4 gallon purchases but if you call them they'll sell one gallon at a time.

"ALL-U-NEED Ultimate Hi-Build, One Step, Polyester Primer-Surfacer-Sealer “Finishing System” is available in Light Gray, Dark Gray, Tan, White and Red. It replaces metal prep, etching primer, primer-surfacer and sealer. Containing 86% solids, it sands easily with no shrinkage. No recoat time, no sanding prior to recoating and no sanding after long periods of air dry, it sands the same after two years. Waterproof and solvent proof, self-etching to all ferrous and non-ferrous metals, fiberglass and wood, it is compatible with all paints and primers as well as repairs hail damage. As with our other innovative product ideas, a guide coat was developed within this product. The guide coat allows users to easily detect low or high areas in their panels. "

https://www.clausenautobody.com/proddetail.php?prod=all-u-need

[BamaNomad]

Interesting words associated with that product... including "As with our other innovative product ideas, a guide coat was developed within this product. The guide coat allows users to easily detect low or high areas in their panels. "

Any idea what that means?? Use of alternate colors of their product ? or ??

[TrifiveRichard]

Thanks NCW and CN. Interesting it replaces an etching primer and is high build.

[chevynut]

Interesting words associated with that product... including "As with our other innovative product ideas, a guide coat was developed within this product. The guide coat allows users to easily detect low or high areas in their panels. "

Any idea what that means?? Use of alternate colors of their product ? or ??

It means that when sanded, the color changes enough that you can use it as a guide coat. If you've ever used SPI black epoxy, it does the same thing. When sanded it turns to a flat dark gray instead of shiny black.

[BamaNomad]

Thanks CN.. no, I've never used SPI, or this Clausen product, but heard good things about them...

[chevynut]

Here's a couple pics of the bottom of the floor. The first one is with the PPG DPLF that I applied years ago. It's been sanded and everything sealed with 2K seam sealer, and a little filler to smooth some welds, dents, etc. The second picture is after a couple coats of SPI Epoxy with sanding and minor filling between coats. The final touchup areas aren't sanded yet. I'll add the pic with the K36 when it's done....didn't get to it yet :(

8286


8287

[chevynut]

Finally got the K36 shot. When I turned the body completely upside-down I found some other areas that needed attention, like the "armpits" below the a-pillars and some spots on the toe boards that might be visible. :) This stuff is a ton of time-consuming work!

After drying a day or so, I'm going to do some fine sanding and filling/sealing if required, then touch-up the K36. After that I'll be ready to mask and shoot the bedliner.


8321

[55 Rescue Dog]

Looks great, and over the top. As tough as bed liner can be, that I really would like to use on many things, it's always been my concern, is to as how do you ever get that stuff back off as needed?
I would love to know, really.

[Rick_L]

Seems to me that you could remove it the same way you'd remove paint, either with sanding, a stripper wheel, or blasting. I'd guess chemical stripping would work too.

[BamaNomad]

That's true, re 'removing' anything on the floor ( My wife and I used a propane torch on one side, and a scraper on the other to remove undercoating off mine, the mineral spirits and scrubbing to get the residue off before sandblasting to get a paintable surface...), but due to it's irregularities, it's much tougher to remove anything on the floor than on a smoooth exterior body surface.. :)

PS. CN, your floor is definitely over the top... it's way past 'good enough', and besides you... no one will ever know how much nicer it is than it has to be.. :) Couldn't you be better spending your time on the things that 'function' or make it look/go better? :)

[chevynut]

Couldn't you be better spending your time on the things that 'function' or make it look/go better? :)

Thanks, but I already did all that. The chassis is virtually done except for coating headers, which I plan to do soon. Everything else was done during the build. The only thing not done is the rest of the interior but it's also quite a ways along.

I need to get the body into paint so I can start assembly. I think one needs to be meticulous about paint prep because once it's painted, it's too late to say "I should have...." A little more blocking on the rockers and some touch-up priming and the body will be done.....this week. I only have a little more priming and blocking to do on the doors, hood, fenders, and tailgate since I prepped all of those things some time ago before the last mockup (primer should be good and dry :D). Then after the bedliner it will all go off to paint.

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[BamaNomad]

There's about 1000 'incidental' parts that have to be painted body color also... Are you sending those to the painter, or do you plan to do them yourself? (ie. tailgate hinges, hinge covers plus those little tiny ones on the outside, the cover plates for the interior panels, etc.. You may have eliminated some of those with 'custom parts'...?

[chevynut]

Bamanomad, you said things that "make it function or look/go better" so I assumed you meant more fabrication work :eek:. I have some little details to do later but they would just be a distraction now.

Yes the tailgate hinges, hinge covers, door hinges, door hinge covers, glove box door, ash tray, and all the under-hood sheetmetal needs to be painted too. I haven't decided what color to paint some of the under-hood sheetmetal yet. :eek: And since I STILL haven't chosen the final color of the rear of the car, I can't paint some of those parts yet. I may paint some myself to keep my painter focused on the big stuff and I would rather do everything I can myself anyhow. Everything on the chassis is polished, plated, powdercoated, or painted already. ;)

The interior panel covers and seat mount brackets, as well as all the headliner tackstrip brackets in the rear are already blasted and primed with SPI or DPLF epoxy and I don't know if I'm going to do anything more to them. I had a bunch of the interior stuff like the glove box door hinge, support arm, glove box lock retainer, ash tray, dash support rods, and everything else I could think of at the time zinc plated along with my chassis hardware. The entire pedal assembly is powdercoated, plated and assembled. All the interior trim has been re-chromed and the beltline trim has been blasted and primed (may be all covered in leather). So I don't know what the remaining "1000 incidental parts" might be. :)

The pimary car color is orange, with the rear of it some off-white or beige color in the stock Nomad color scheme. The engine, transmission, torque arm, and differential are charcoal and I'll have charcoal leather and paint in the interior. So I may use some more charcoal under the hood too. My interior guy suggested to eliminate the off-white and use charcoal on the rear of the car, but I'm not real crazy about that idea. So I have to figure out where else to use that color.

So I'm trying to stay focused on getting the body and the other pieces ready to paint. I'll need to choose a final rear color soon and get more paint and clear ordered after I discuss what all I need with my painter.

[BamaNomad]

:) Well.. it SEEMS like 1000 pieces.. every day I seem to find more parts that I need to prep... Sounds like you have a good handle on most of your 'small items'...

PS. I like the idea of a beige to go with the orange on the exterior... and the same beige might be nice on the inner fenders as well if it 'highlights' your engine?

[chevynut]

BN, this is what I'm looking at for my exterior colors....the orange is already decided but none of the pics I've seen of it do it justice, not even my own. It's an amazing color in person especially in the sunlight. The beige is what I'm leaning toward and it's not nearly as white as some of the zillions of colors I've looked at. It's a tri-coat metallic and I don't care that it's not a GM color. :)


https://driveviper.com/forums/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fi937.photobucket.com%2F albums%2Fad212%2Fbkbldgmn%2F104.jpg



http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/106960025.jpg

I have some powerpoint slides showing several different under-hood color schemes but can't figure out how to post them. The firewall will be flat clear (I think) over orange. The air intake and inner fenders could be either orange or charcoal (flat or gloss clear), and the beige could be on the air intake too. I don't think I'll do beige on the inner fenders. I may carry the beige into the interior on top of the console too.

Here's a shot of the under-hood area in primer. I plan to build a cover to go over the intake hose and throttle body.

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[NickP]

I have some powerpoint slides showing several different under-hood color schemes but can't figure out how to post them.

http://download.cnet.com/Office-Convert-PowerPoint-to-Image-Jpg-Jpeg-Free/3000-2075_4-10900924.html

[BamaNomad]

Your 'orange' looks like 'Sunburst Orange' that showed up on Corvettes several years ago... I think a beige would look good with it on a '56... There were two or three beiges used on Trifives.... adobe beige and dune beige are pretty close to that beige you show...?

[chevynut]

I've decided that paint prep is a lot like one of these cars.....you're never really "done". :p:geek:

[BamaNomad]

... but at some point, one has to say 'good enough'... and 'roll on'.... :)

[Bitchin'57]

I've decided that paint prep is a lot like one of these cars.....you're never really "done". :p:geek:
When you think you're done block sanding, paint the car black. If the reflections look great, you're done! ;)

[chevynut]

Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever finish this thing.:( I moved the Hemi55 into the new shop a few weeks ago so I could set up the jig and do a C4 frame build that has to be done soon and we're almost finished with that. Then 3 weeks ago I started getting a little back pain that culminated into a really bad case of sciatica that sent me to a chiropractor, then to urgent care for x-rays and shots. I was hardly able to walk for a few days and could barely stand up. It's getting better but still not healed. I helped my son lift a 350 pound frame out of the jig a couple days ago and it was kinda ugly....shouldn't have done it but I had no choice. As a result I've slowed down my progress on my Nomad.

I sure learned the value of guidecoat though. I didn't use any on the roof because I could pretty well see where I sanded, and thought I was done. Yesterday I was doing a little more sanding since somehow I apparently got overspray from epoxying the interior of the car on the roof. I have no idea how that happened but it needed to be sanded. While hand sanding I noticed a small dent behind the windshield on the passenger side. I don't remember if I knew about it when I sanded the roof and forgot about it or what :confused:. Don't see how I could have missed it. So I guide-coated the roof from the b-pillar forward and sanded that tiny dent out....didn't go to bare metal. Now I have to re-prime the spot and make sure it's truly gone.

Every time I think I'm done I find some other little spot to work on. I've blocked both quarters with guidecoat again and they look good. The entire underside is done as far as I'm going to take it. The firewall is finished and the rockers look good now. I've been working on the front of the door jambs and they need one more coat of primer in spots. The tailgate area and tailpan is done. So I'm 99% there and it's almost ready to move into the new shop so I can put the Hemi55 in there.

I haven't even started on the fenders, doors, hood, or tailgate but all of them are 90%+ blocked out from before.....without guidecoat. :(

[BamaNomad]

It won't (can't) ever be perfect, regardless of how long you prime/sand... and you need to leave something for your painter to do... :)

[Bitchin'57]

Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever finish this thing.:( I moved the Hemi55 into the new shop a few weeks ago so I could set up the jig and do a C4 frame build that has to be done soon and we're almost finished with that. Then 3 weeks ago I started getting a little back pain that culminated into a really bad case of sciatica that sent me to a chiropractor, then to urgent care for x-rays and shots. I was hardly able to walk for a few days and could barely stand up. It's getting better but still not healed. I helped my son lift a 350 pound frame out of the jig a couple days ago and it was kinda ugly....shouldn't have done it but I had no choice. As a result I've slowed down my progress on my Nomad.

I sure learned the value of guidecoat though. I didn't use any on the roof because I could pretty well see where I sanded, and thought I was done. Yesterday I was doing a little more sanding since somehow I apparently got overspray from epoxying the interior of the car on the roof. I have no idea how that happened but it needed to be sanded. While hand sanding I noticed a small dent behind the windshield on the passenger side. I don't remember if I knew about it when I sanded the roof and forgot about it or what :confused:. Don't see how I could have missed it. So I guide-coated the roof from the b-pillar forward and sanded that tiny dent out....didn't go to bare metal. Now I have to re-prime the spot and make sure it's truly gone.

Every time I think I'm done I find some other little spot to work on. I've blocked both quarters with guidecoat again and they look good. The entire underside is done as far as I'm going to take it. The firewall is finished and the rockers look good now. I've been working on the front of the door jambs and they need one more coat of primer in spots. The tailgate area and tailpan is done. So I'm 99% there and it's almost ready to move into the new shop so I can put the Hemi55 in there.

I haven't even started on the fenders, doors, hood, or tailgate but all of them are 90%+ blocked out from before.....without guidecoat. :(
I've had sciatica once, so I know how bad it is. Fortunately for me, a couple trips to the chiropractor took care of it. Anyway, yes, guide coat is a must. I'm at that stage right now with my quarters. I'm trying out two different kinds, one aerosol type and one that's a dry powder.

[Bitchin'57]

It won't (can't) ever be perfect, regardless of how long you prime/sand... and you need to leave something for your painter to do... :)
That's actually a good point. The painter's reputation is on that paint job, and he might want to block the panels himself.

[chevynut]

. and you need to leave something for your painter to do... :)

The plan is that I do all the prep work and he just shoots the paint. I may have him help me with the cut and buff too.....if he has time.

[chevynut]

I've had sciatica once, so I know how bad it is. Fortunately for me, a couple trips to the chiropractor took care of it.

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm dealing with a hip problem because it still hurts after 3+ weeks. Oxycodone doesn't even help. I initially felt a pain in the lower back and down my butt and the back of my leg, all the way into the calf. Now it seems like it's concentrated in my butt, and my back doesn't hurt but it's "tired" feeling. I hope to hell it's not my hip.


Anyway, yes, guide coat is a must. I'm at that stage right now with my quarters. I'm trying out two different kinds, one aerosol type and one that's a dry powder.

I have both Evercoat aerosol and 3M powder guide coat and I like the powder better because you get full coverage. I used the aerosol for the first blocking and it seemed ok but I think you can miss stuff with it if you're not careful. Plus you can sand the powder immediately. The downside is it's awfully expensive for black powder.

I'm at the 400 grit stage now. I need to see if my painter wants me to go to 600, and if I should use guidecoat for handsanding just to make sure there's no scratches or other defects.

[Bitchin'57]

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm dealing with a hip problem because it still hurts after 3+ weeks. Oxycodone doesn't even help. I initially felt a pain in the lower back and down my butt and the back of my leg, all the way into the calf. Now it seems like it's concentrated in my butt, and my back doesn't hurt but it's "tired" feeling. I hope to hell it's not my hip.



I have both Evercoat aerosol and 3M powder guide coat and I like the powder better because you get full coverage. I used the aerosol for the first blocking and it seemed ok but I think you can miss stuff with it if you're not careful. Plus you can sand the powder immediately. The downside is it's awfully expensive for black powder.

I'm at the 400 grit stage now. I need to see if my painter wants me to go to 600, and if I should use guidecoat for handsanding just to make sure there's no scratches or other defects.
From my understanding, Sciatica is a pinched nerve from a misaligned back. I suffered with it for about a month. I didn't know what was wrong with me, and I figured it would go away on its own. I did some research, and thought I'd try a chiropractor. The chiropractor put me on this specialized bench, and laying sideways on it, she straddled me (wearing a skirt no less, and yes she was attractive :) ) cracked my back a few different ways. On the first visit, I hobbled in there a cripple, and walked out 98% better. After the second visit, I was a new man.

[BamaNomad]

Lifting heavy objects incorrectly, and even worse, lifting and turning iwth those heavy weights can shift your lower back vertebrae out of position. A GOOD chiropractor can fix it if you allow them to, but first Xraying to verify your problem, then multiple procedures including traction, electrical stimulus, mechanical massage, etc... My chiropractor moved my back into position after having it 1.25" out of alignment at the lower joints! She gave me some stretching exercises to do each morning (takes less than 5 minutes) which will help to prevent further occurrences, but one still needs to REMEMBER what it felt like when the back is screwed up, and be smart when lifting...

[567chevys]

The plan is that I do all the prep work and he just shoots the paint. I may have him help me with the cut and buff too.....if he has time.

I know lots have changed since I was young , But the body shops I worked in the painter would not spray it with out him first going over it to make sure it was done Right .

Sid

[chevynut]

I know lots have changed since I was young , But the body shops I worked in the painter would not spray it with out him first going over it to make sure it was done Right .Sid

When I first went to Matt's shop he was really hesitant to commit to painting my Nomad. He told me what his shop rate was and said he was interested, and I told him what I wanted done and asked for an estimate. He said it depended on how much sanding and buffing the paint took and what level I wanted it taken to. So I told him I wanted to help prep the car and have him go over it with me just before paint, and that I would help sand the car for buffing. He said he would drop by and take a look.

He was in town one day and stopped by to see the car. He ran his hands down the body and looked it over closely, and said "you obviously know how to sand" and said he would do it. He painted the frame almost 3 years ago and I thought the body would follow in 2-3 months. :( Then I decided to finish the chassis before I got the body painted because I didn't want the body sitting around risking the paint getting damaged. So I did all the suspension rebuild and polishing, part painting, plumbing, differential rebuild, engine re-fresh work, and chassis assembly and wiring first before I got back to work on the body.

Time just keeps clicking by :geek:. I thought it would take me a couple of weeks to finish the body prep....it's been a month or more since I got back on it. I decided I'm calling the body priming and sanding "done" as of last Friday. I still have to finish the bolt-on parts and spray the bedliner. I'm shooting for around Easter for paint, if he can do it then and my leg/back cooperates. We'll see what happens.

[chevynut]

Well I've been fighting that sciatica problem and it's finally getting better. It's been a real pain (literally) just sleeping and getting around for the past few weeks.

The body is done and sitting on the rotisserie with a tarp on it to keep it clean. I still haven't shot the bedliner and I need to ask my painter if he wants me to do that before or after paint.

I've been working on the Nomad fenders and doors the past week or so. I got one of the fenders blocked out and it's looking good, ready for some minor filling and another coat of K36. The other fender is ready for blocking but I've been working on the doors for a few days. The outside of the doors look great since they were blocked on the car. But the door edges were still pretty "raw" since I hadn't done anything on them for years since shooting DPLF epoxy.

I first sanded the DPLF and tried to sand out as much of the roughness everywhere that I could. I shot a coat of SPI black epoxy, let it cure, and did some filling with U-Pol Dolphin Glaze. After curing, I sanded everything again and got it pretty smooth. I'm not trying to get all the numerous factory wrinkles out of it because most of it won't be seen. Next I seam-sealed the entire perimeter of the door skin and a few other places with Evercoat 2K seam sealer and let that cure. After a light sanding to smooth the seam sealer I shot another coat of SPI epoxy. That's curing and tomorrow I'll do one more light sanding before shooting K36 on the door edges.

I'm not trying to make the doors perfect, but I do want the back of the doors to be really nice because they're seen when the door is open. Same for the area under the a-pillar. So I've been doing a lot of work there to make everything as smooth as possible.

No pics right now but maybe later after the K36. :) Still a lot of work to do, and as usual it's taking me 10 times as long as expected.

[WagonCrazy]

You're in the thick of it man. But stay with it. I can see that orange color shining in the sunlight SOON.

[Bitchin'57]

Well I've been fighting that sciatica problem and it's finally getting better. It's been a real pain (literally) just sleeping and getting around for the past few weeks.

The body is done and sitting on the rotisserie with a tarp on it to keep it clean. I still haven't shot the bedliner and I need to ask my painter if he wants me to do that before or after paint.

I've been working on the Nomad fenders and doors the past week or so. I got one of the fenders blocked out and it's looking good, ready for some minor filling and another coat of K36. The other fender is ready for blocking but I've been working on the doors for a few days. The outside of the doors look great since they were blocked on the car. But the door edges were still pretty "raw" since I hadn't done anything on them for years since shooting DPLF epoxy.

I first sanded the DPLF and tried to sand out as much of the roughness everywhere that I could. I shot a coat of SPI black epoxy, let it cure, and did some filling with U-Pol Dolphin Glaze. After curing, I sanded everything again and got it pretty smooth. I'm not trying to get all the numerous factory wrinkles out of it because most of it won't be seen. Next I seam-sealed the entire perimeter of the door skin and a few other places with Evercoat 2K seam sealer and let that cure. After a light sanding to smooth the seam sealer I shot another coat of SPI epoxy. That's curing and tomorrow I'll do one more light sanding before shooting K36 on the door edges.

I'm not trying to make the doors perfect, but I do want the back of the doors to be really nice because they're seen when the door is open. Same for the area under the a-pillar. So I've been doing a lot of work there to make everything as smooth as possible.

No pics right now but maybe later after the K36. :) Still a lot of work to do, and as usual it's taking me 10 times as long as expected.
You do a good job making the boring part of car building an interesting read. ;)

[BeachGirl55]

Well I've been fighting that sciatica problem and it's finally getting better. It's been a real pain (literally) just sleeping and getting around for the past few weeks.

I've been dealing with Sciatic on my left side for about 5 years now, some days it is a no go to the garage/shop and then other days it's tolerable , plus I deal with the problem guys don't have to, 38D Boobs , while they might look good they kill my back and depending on the Bra they make my shoulders hurt , plus being a petite (5' tall) doesn't help .......

[Florida 57]

Did you test fit the stainless moldings prior to polishing them? I ask as it seems that many miss that step until after paint.Also not many have the advantage of test fitting several pieces until the one(s) are chosen.

[chevynut]

Did you test fit the stainless moldings prior to polishing them? I ask as it seems that many miss that step until after paint.Also not many have the advantage of test fitting several pieces until the one(s) are chosen.

Which moldings are you referring to? The BA side stainless should all fit....at least I don't see why it won't. If the quarter window moldings don't fit I don't know what I'd do about it :eek:. The ones I know about that can have issues are the drip rail stainless, which I have trial fit. I probably need to check it again before paint. I've trial fitted some of the other pieces but not all of it at the same time. Not sure I see the reason to do it. Hope I don't find out later. :)

[Florida 57]

Which moldings are you referring to? The BA side stainless should all fit....at least I don't see why it won't. If the quarter window moldings don't fit I don't know what I'd do about it :eek:. The ones I know about that can have issues are the drip rail stainless, which I have trial fit. I probably need to check it again before paint. I've trial fitted some of the other pieces but not all of it at the same time. Not sure I see the reason to do it. Hope I don't find out later. :)

I have seen on builds at car shows where the stainless side moldings don`t fit correctly after different metal work was done.One recent 57 had a quarter changed and the upper and lower quarter stainless was off by one inch. Visible perhaps only those who look closely but off non the less.Car sold for $100,000.00 and way over valued.Nice car and owner but admitted he did`nt check proper fitment prior to the quarter`s installation.I have also seen belt line trim being off as well.It`s not that time consuming prior to paint.I guess I`m just a "safe than sorry" kind of person and I was just curious and understand how meticulous you are. I know for a fact one has to check the aftermarket moldings as all not stamped the same.I also understand the value behind your 56 hockey sticks and the difficulty should an owner need to purchase.(PS., should you have a few dozen sets you have no use for....LOL.)

[LEE T]

Depending on how much repair work was done it can change the shape, and the heat and pressure of buffing can also, so its a good idea to test fit and tweek it before paint.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I've been dealing with Sciatic on my left side for about 5 years now, some days it is a no go to the garage/shop and then other days it's tolerable , plus I deal with the problem guys don't have to, 38D Boobs , while they might look good they kill my back and depending on the Bra they make my shoulders hurt , plus being a petite (5' tall) doesn't help .......
Really? I would much rather hear about the specs on your tri-five.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I have seen on builds at car shows where the stainless side moldings don`t fit correctly after different metal work was done.One recent 57 had a quarter changed and the upper and lower quarter stainless was off by one inch. Visible perhaps only those who look closely but off non the less.Car sold for $100,000.00 and way over valued.Nice car and owner but admitted he did`nt check proper fitment prior to the quarter`s installation.I have also seen belt line trim being off as well.It`s not that time consuming prior to paint.I guess I`m just a "safe than sorry" kind of person and I was just curious and understand how meticulous you are. I know for a fact one has to check the aftermarket moldings as all not stamped the same.I also understand the value behind your 56 hockey sticks and the difficulty should an owner need to purchase.(PS., should you have a few dozen sets you have no use for....LOL.)
I have one front 55 OE fender with 2 sets of 1/4 inch holes in it for a Bel Aire, that I want to put on my 210. I either have to weld them all up, or run Bel trim, and see which holes work best.

[Bitchin'57]

I've been dealing with Sciatic on my left side for about 5 years now, some days it is a no go to the garage/shop and then other days it's tolerable , plus I deal with the problem guys don't have to, 38D Boobs , while they might look good they kill my back and depending on the Bra they make my shoulders hurt , plus being a petite (5' tall) doesn't help .......
Have you tried going to a chiropractor? Your back probably needs an alignment.

[BeachGirl55]

Really? I would much rather hear about the specs on your tri-five.

yes really ! and I would really rather not hear anything from you but yet here you are.

[BeachGirl55]

Have you tried going to a chiropractor? Your back probably needs an alignment. I have no suggestions about your front "problem".......well I do, but......... LOL

see my bone cracker on a regular basis, as for the front I can only imagine your suggestions but we wouldn't want to offend 55RD now would we :evil:

[55 Rescue Dog]

see my bone cracker on a regular basis, as for the front I can only imagine your suggestions but we wouldn't want to offend 55RD now would we :evil:
Do you even have a tri-five?

[BeachGirl55]

Do you even have a tri-five?


lol, do you even pay attention while you troll ? I have a couple 55 two door sedans ..... I was at last years Tri Five Nationals , were you ? if you want to run your mouth start a dedicated thread and I will happily respond, I prefer not to mess up other peoples threads unlike you

[55 Rescue Dog]

A couple of pictures of just your car would make a difference in promoting the site, instead of beating up on me, like some of the gang, and your specs have nothing do with nomad final assembly.

[BeachGirl55]

A couple of pictures of just your car would make a difference in promoting the site, instead of beating up on me, like some of the gang, and your specs have nothing do with nomad final assembly.
I was responding to Laszlo's comment on his Sciatic acting up , you don't read much do you ? as far as beating up on you, well you kind of ask for it with your constant negative comments in other peoples threads, this is Laszlo's thread so if you wish to continue your debate with me go to chit chat I started a thread just for you..... so enough of your disrespect towards the OP and trashing his thread

[chevynut]

I have seen on builds at car shows where the stainless side moldings don`t fit correctly after different metal work was done.One recent 57 had a quarter changed and the upper and lower quarter stainless was off by one inch.

My quarters are new and they came with holes already cut. I've held the trim up to the side of the car and it looked like it was right to me. I have one NOS piece of long BA quarter trim and a couple of pieces of good used trim that hasn't seen the road for decades.


I have also seen belt line trim being off as well.

The beltline on the car is the original metal, so I don't think it's going to be off. I did install the upper and lower curved quarter trim and the stainless beside the liftgate. Madmook Mike did my liftgate and I fit it before it was chromed....I haven't fit it since it was done but I'm sure it will fit.


I know for a fact one has to check the aftermarket moldings as all not stamped the same.

None of my moldings are aftermarket. I have several sets of door and fender trim.


I also understand the value behind your 56 hockey sticks and the difficulty should an owner need to purchase.(PS., should you have a few dozen sets you have no use for....LOL.)

I did fit those pieces when I was installing the new quarters. They're the original ones from the car....and I don't have any extras. :)

[chevynut]

I was responding to Laszlo's comment on his Sciatic acting up , you don't read much do you ? as far as beating up on you, well you kind of ask for it with your constant negative comments in other peoples threads, this is Laszlo's thread so if you wish to continue your debate with me go to chit chat I started a thread just for you..... so enough of your disrespect towards the OP and trashing his thread

RD does that regularly which you can see if you go back and read any of my threads that he mucks up. I don't mind a couple of off-topic posts (my posting about my sciatica was off-topic too) but to ask a question about his car he should be starting his own thread. I've told him that repeatedly but he's obviously a slow learner. :D

[BeachGirl55]

RD does that regularly which you can see if you go back and read any of my threads that he mucks up. I don't mind a couple of off-topic posts (my posting about my sciatica was off-topic too) but to ask a question about his car he should be starting his own thread. I've told him that repeatedly but he's obviously a slow learner. :D


yea I've witnessed his theatrics in your other threads, he has no respect

[1320GASSER]

A couple of pictures of just your car would make a difference in promoting the site, instead of beating up on me, like some of the gang, and your specs have nothing do with nomad final assembly.

you want someone to help promote the site try starting with yourself, your badgering laszlo and other members every chance you get in other members threads is doing more harm to this site than anything else

[chevynut]

I've been working on my doors and fenders and have run into an issue. While blocking the passenger fender with guidecoat I found a low spot above the wheel centerline that I initially thought I could block out until I put a straightedge on it. I never saw this before, probably because I didn't use guidecoat initially on the Slicksand and I never did block the first coat of primer. Most of it was under the two stainless pieces, but it did extend above it a little. The low spot was maybe 5" long and 3" wide. I decided to take a hammer to it and I got it a lot straighter, to the point that I figured I could block the Slicksand and get it out.

I've been blocking with 320 grit paper and I did the first sanding with it, cutting most of the K36 away and getting into the Slicksand. When I started seeing hints of DPLF epoxy I stopped and applied a coat of K36. I blocked it again and it looks like pretty much all of the low spot is gone, but I can see slight "ripples" when I look at the surface at a low angle. I'm back into the Slicksand a little and I think it's cutting at a different rate than the K36, so I feel like I need to keep spraying and sanding K36 until it's all I'm blocking.

Does that make sense? What grit sandpaper should I be using at this stage? Seems like the 320 is cutting pretty well but it may be too fine to get everything perfectly flat. However, if I use coarser paper I'll cut through it again and will have to apply more K36. Seems like a never-ending process if I use coarser paper, moving to finer paper on the same layer.

[Rick_L]

I'd go with glazing putty on the low spot, then some K36. As you are try to level the area, don't use 320, go back to 180 until it blocks straight.

[Bitchin'57]

I'd go with glazing putty on the low spot, then some K36. As you are try to level the area, don't use 320, go back to 180 until it blocks straight.
I agree 100%. I've had pros tell me that you will block out a panel straighter and faster with a coarser grit, probably because you don't have to lean on the board to make it cut. Also, change out the paper as soon as it feels its not cutting as well as it did when it was fresh.

[MP&C]

How low is the low spot? Some of the roof blocking we did recently had lows that were bumped up until they blocked out. It was hands down much quicker than mixing anything else to fill and sand, but I suppose the depth of your low spot will be a determining factor here.

[chevynut]

I don't know how I missed the last replies to this thread. :confused: Thanks for the comments.

I've been working on some more sanding lately and have the doors blocked with guidecoat. They blocked out nice all the way to the bottom, but I cut into Slicksand a few places. Matt told me I had to have any polyester fillers covered before basecoat (we're not using sealer), so both of the doors will need one more coat of K36. That should make them really flat once I final sand with 400. Matt says I don't have to go past 400 grit.

I haven't done any more work on the low spot on the passenger fender but it's essentially gone after I hammered it and blocked it. There's just some very slight waviness near that area that you can't see unless you're at a very low angle. I know I need to get it out. Once I shoot another coat of K36 I'll block it with some new 320 and see where I am. K36 blocks really nice with little pressure. If it still won't come out I'll drop to a coarser grit. I'm confident I can get it flat.

I also blocked the front splash pan and it just needs one more coat of K36 too. I did some minor filling on the sides below the fender extension to make it smoother than it was from the factory. Most of it is covered up and not very visible anyhow so it doesn't need to be perfect. ;)

Matt gave me a list of materials I'll need to finish the paint work so I need to get that on order. I already spent about $2500 on paint materials and need to spend about that much more. :eek:

Also, Matt said I should shoot the bedliner on before paint so I need to do that. He says you end up with rough edges and they're easier to sand out before paint.

I have 4 pints of tintable Raptor Liner but I'm beginning to think that may not be enough, though I've never shot any before. He said I should put bedliner on the inside of the front fenders, in the rear wheelwells, inside the rear quarter panel area behind the wheelwells and around the taillight area, and I have a front fender shield that I'll spray on the bottom side. He thinks I should do the inner fenders in paint on both sides.

I want a slight, fairly smooth, texture so I guess I need to experiment with adding reducer to the bedliner to see how it works.

[LEE T]

The guys at SPI are big fans of using a sealer before base coat. They are totally convinced that there will be fewer chips when using a sealer coat. One coat of reduced epoxy just before base, will go on smooth and offer a chemical bond. Just food for thought.

[chevynut]

The guys at SPI are big fans of using a sealer before base coat. They are totally convinced that there will be fewer chips when using a sealer coat. One coat of reduced epoxy just before base, will go on smooth and offer a chemical bond. Just food for thought.

Thanks Lee, my painter and I discussed this at length. I'm not using SPI epoxy on the Nomad's exterior. I wish I had, but I used PPG all the way up from metal except for the Slicksand. I want a white coat under the orange base to make it pop more. We talked about white sealer, but Matt said it would be a lot more work because he insists that the sealer is sanded smooth. He said it will have a very slight orange peel in places that must be wet sanded after curing. And if I use white DPLF it sands like crap. So we decided to use white base under the orange base. I did some reading and I read that sealer is usually only used to get an even color under the base. However, using the white base I have to go over K36 only, not polyester.

[Rick_L]

Don't block that low spot with 320, use something coarser like 180/220, then 320/400. 320 just doesn't cut enough to use for blocking.

[chevynut]

Got the masking done for spraying the bedliner. I'm going to try it out this coming week and see how it goes.

8761

[chevynut]

Trying to figure out how to deal with holes in the outer sheetmetal when spraying bedliner in the wheelwells. I'm talking about the trim holes in the quarters and the V8 emblems below the taillights, among others. If I cover them from the outside with tape, the bedliner will have something to cling to and might plug the holes. If I leave them open, I think the bedliner might make it to the outside of the body. Also have to figure out what to do with the taillights since I'd like the backside of the sheetmetal covered with bedliner but the outside painted. Any advice from experience?

[Bitchin'57]

Trying to figure out how to deal with holes in the outer sheetmetal when spraying bedliner in the wheelwells. I'm talking about the trim holes in the quarters and the V8 emblems below the taillights, among others. If I cover them from the outside with tape, the bedliner will have something to cling to and might plug the holes. If I leave them open, I think the bedliner might make it to the outside of the body. Also have to figure out what to do with the taillights since I'd like the backside of the sheetmetal covered with bedliner but the outside painted. Any advice from experience?
Go ahead and use masking tape on the outside. When you pull off the tape, the bedliner in the hole will come off with it. Been there, done that. For holes around 3/8" diameter, you can plug them with foam ear plugs.

[NickP]

Paint Plugs might work: https://hightempmasking.com/products/big-160pc-high-temp-silicone-rubber-plugs-caps-kit-powder-coating-paint-masking?variant=25849795143&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuMrXBRC_ARIsALWZrIgIydnu2Q9-z_q5LjofJswrbqBXOmUNeVXnhlDRb_YjlaT_IS04lD0aAoMGEA Lw_wcB

[Florida 57]

Trying to figure out how to deal with holes in the outer sheetmetal when spraying bedliner in the wheelwells. I'm talking about the trim holes in the quarters and the V8 emblems below the taillights, among others. If I cover them from the outside with tape, the bedliner will have something to cling to and might plug the holes. If I leave them open, I think the bedliner might make it to the outside of the body. Also have to figure out what to do with the taillights since I'd like the backside of the sheetmetal covered with bedliner but the outside painted. Any advice from experience?

Tape the holes on the outside.From the inside fill the hole with a thick paint polish or glaze using a Q-tip.The oils in the polish-glaze will inhibit the bedliner to stick to the tape therefore reducing the chance of bedliner around the holes being pulled off when removing tape.When removing tape, remove pulling tape on an angle again reducing the chance of pulling paint-primer on the outside.

[chevynut]

Thanks for the ideas guys. My concern is getting bedliner on the outside of the body as well as plugging the holes and perhaps peeling the bedliner off inside. I'm pretty sure that if I didn't plug the holes I'd have bedliner running down the outside of the body. How about this.....tape from the outside, let bedliner set up, cut out the holes with a razor knife blade, then peel off the tape. Amazing how there are so many details you have to consider when doing this stuff.

[Florida 57]

"cut out the holes with a razor knife blade,"
Lot of work.Do a test on the polish-glaze idea that was offered.It has worked for me.

[chevynut]

I'm not afraid of "a lot of work" :p. I masked off these machined logos with liquid mask and cut them out with a razor blade after painting the calipers.:geek: I don't necessarily want the easiest, just something that works well. I'll give the polish idea some thought.

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[hurddawg]

Calipers look great!

[Bitchin'57]

Honestly Laz, you're over thinking it. Just plug the smaller holes with the foam ear plugs, and the larger holes with masking tape from the outside. You won't have any problems.
Something else I suggest is, masking off more of the undercarriage ahead of your rear wheel wells. The product will be spattering out of the schutz gun at least 40-50 psi, and when you go to spray the front portion of your rear wheel wells, some of that spatter can overshoot and travel quite far.

[chevynut]

Thanks Dave, I was actually looking at it yesterday and realized I'll need to mask off more of the bottom of the car. I'll probably just use some plastic sheeting I have to mask the rest of it. I wanted to spray this week but it looks like I won't get to spraying it until we get back from Florida. Had way too much stuff to do this week before the trip and I did get the headers back on :).

[55 Tony]

I believe those are the nicest calipers I've ever seen. Is this car going to get driven? I'd be afraid to!
(oh, if they were a fluorescent or other bright color I wouldn't be saying this)

[chevynut]

I believe those are the nicest calipers I've ever seen. Is this car going to get driven? I'd be afraid to!

Like everything else, I spent WAAAAAAY too much time on them....and money. I used G2 epoxy caliper paint color matched to the car. I rebuilt and painted the stock C4 rear calipers too. I plan to drive the Nomad about like I do the Porsche. I've owned it since 2002 and it has 36K miles on it and never driven in the winter. It had 6K when I bought it. But I'll take the Nomad to shows too, as well as a little cruising.

[TrifiveRichard]

I’m sure razor blades would work great, just like with bondo/filler!

[chevynut]

After a week-long trip to Montana and a 2-week trip to Florida, then catching up on yard work I finally got back into the shop. Amazing how fast you can piss away a whole month. I installed a 1 1/4 HP Genie garage door opener on the new shop this week because I got tired of lifting the big 8x8foot door so often. Then I did some more cleaning and masking on the Nomad and I still don't know if I've masked it enough to keep bedliner off the outside of it. I may have to just mask off the whole damned thing to be safe. :geek:

I was going to start shooting the bedliner today but it's windy and I'm not doing it inside. I thought I'd try shooting a few loose pieces and way up in the quarters to see what kind of texture I get and get used to the process. Since I'm leaving for branding in Casper this afternoon it looks like I won't be able to try it until Monday :(. Tic, tic, tic....

[chevynut]

Well I said "what the hell" and masked off the entire car except the wheelwells and rear inside quarters. Everything's covered except the firewall and if I get bedliner on that I deserve it. :D I just don't want to deal with any over-spray on the car. Only took a few minutes and now I can spray wherever I want to. I'll still drape some sheeting over my rotisserie when I get it outside. No wind all week......except today. :geek:

[Bitchin'57]

Its hard to mess up spraying bedliner. Just keep the gun moving and spray it somewhat evenly, and you'll be fine.

[chevynut]

I finally finished spraying the bedliner today. It was easier than I thought it would be, and the over-spray wasn't nearly as bad as I feared. I sprayed my front fender shields on the bottom side, the removable flap for my battery tray on the passenger side rear, up inside the quarters, and both wheelwells. It was tricky getting it up inside the quarters behind the wheelhouses without screwing it up but I think I did okay. Pretty happy with the results but I still have to un-mask it all. I used 4 liters (the entire kit) for all of this. Still plan to spray the inside of the front fenders when I get them completely primed and blocked, per Matt's advice, so I ordered another 4 liter kit.


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[WagonCrazy]

Keep those progress pics coming Laszlo. Lookin' good bro.

[hurddawg]

Looks good Lazslo! Where do you buy colored bedliner?

[chevynut]

Where do you buy colored bedliner?

It's a "tintable" bedliner from TCP Global, but it's just a re-branded Raptor Liner from their Custom Shop. You pour 3 ounces of your basecoat in it and add the hardener, then shake it up and spray. It comes with 4 liters including hardener and a gun for $109 shipped. I think I got it for $99 a few months ago but just ordered more at the higher price. In the sun you can see the metallic in it. It's pretty flat so it should go with my flat clear pretty good.

The only problem I had was the bottle doesn't hold all the hardener and tint for some reason. I added the 3 ounces of tint first and shook it up to get the color uniformly distributed, then added the 250ml of hardener....but it was completely full and I had 2 oz of hardener left. So I mixed what I could and poured it all into a mixing cup and added the rest of the hardener, mixed it up really good, and poured it back into the bottle. I called TCP and asked about it, and they acted surprised. The guy said perhaps there was too much material in the bottle. All of them were like that.

[hurddawg]

Its looks really nice, I'll have to look into it once I get to that stage. Thanks for the info :)

[Bitchin'57]

Looks great! Nice texture!