Handling with slicks

[55 Tony]

I have a bunch of threads started but I would please like to keep this thread on track about slicks and only slicks. These are the slicks I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOO-18140
They are a medium compound tire that can be run without inner tubes. Problem is that they get hard to handle when I pick up a little speed, swaying side to side. I've read that inner tubes can help, but do they help a lot?!. With the price of the inner tubes about the same as the slicks I'd like to know what I'm buying before I do it. I'm also going to try adding 2 more psi of air to see if it helps. Also would like to know if there are tubes that don't require drilling the valve stem hole larger, or does someone make larger valve stems if these wheels where someday to be used with street tires again?
As far as these slicks sticking, last weekend doing my burnout for less time than normal friggen launched me up to be staged!
Thanks

[Rick_L]

These are always going to be a bit spooky as far as driving on the street. More air pressure will help.

They will also be a HUGE handful in the rain.

You really need to run regular tires on the street, and just run these at the track.

The only reason to run tubes is if they leak, and most will.

[markm]

I run Mickey Thompson 2 sets with tubes 1 without. The without leaks down fairly quick. No big deal because I NEVER let a car with slicks sit overnight unless it is jacked up. I find my 60 foot times are just as good with 15/16 pounds as 10/12 pounds, However my handling is much more stable with more air. I remember the time we turned a friend of mines son loose with my BBC Camaro on the 1/4, we suggested a 1/2 track pass. He responded with a 10 something. He told his Dad that old Camaro was more stable in the 1/4 than Dads CJ Mustang in the 1/8. FYI I remove front sway bars from my Camaros. I have been caught in the rain at race track and can tell you for a fact6 that slicks and rain very dangerous. It is all but impossible to even get a car on the trailer.

[55 Tony]

First, like I said, they are advertised as not needing tubes and they haven't leaked any for me. Yes, I knew I couldn't drive them on the street, although I did do a couple miles and yes they were worse than on the track and at the track they were bad. On the street I had to fight to keep it straight going only 60mph. I now know that it isn't only rain that makes them dangerous on the road. Lucky for me the track is just over a mile away on back roads so I do drive it there with the slicks. Top speed maybe 30mph. I'll try the tubes and add baby powder like I've heard. Reading how a little spin of the tire on the wheel can easily tear a stem off, I'm going to take the glue approach. Permatex red sticky gasket stuff seems to be the favorite but I have some contact glue that is a lot stronger. Could be tricky keeping it off were there is contact with the tube.

[markm]

When I was young I bought some brand new Supertricks for my 67 SS350 and could not bring myself to drilling them. This was a bad plan as spun the slick on the rim and the tube wadded up creating a sever imbalance at high speed. The slick did not go flat, I went back to pits visually inspected car, found nothing out of place and then made a another pass. Same issue, this time we jacked car up and went through gears and found issue. Next step here comes the drill and screws.

[55 Tony]

I had put a paint mark on both tires/wheels to see if they spun, and they didn't. So I'll try the glue method as an extra safety measure.

[Rick_L]

What are you going to do when you want to take those tires off the rim if you glue them? What's wrong with screws?

[55 Tony]

What are you going to do when you want to take those tires off the rim if you glue them? What's wrong with screws?
According to what I read, they come off easy. The tacky gasket spray is tacky enough to keep them from slipping but can you really imagine it holding so hard that you can't break the beak with a tire machine? Here you go since this is new to you and you don't know how to use google. Just hover your pointer (moving it with your mouse or other method) and click on this link. Then click on the other links. It's not very difficult.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gluing+slicks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

[markm]

What are you going to do when you want to take those tires off the rim if you glue them? What's wrong with screws?

Absolutely nothing its been proven to work by tens of thousands of racers for the last 50 or 60 years.

[Rick_L]

Permatex Hi Tack isn't going to do anything other than make a mess. The bond strength doesn't even come close to what screws provide. And yes it won't challenge a tire machine. If Permatex Hi Tack works, I'd have to venture that doing nothing works on the same application. I thought you would be proposing something substantial, not Hi Tack.

Right now, your weak combo probably doesn't need any help in this area, especially with an automatic trans.

[chevynut]

Seems to me that "slicks" and "handling" don't belong together in the same sentence. :D

[55 Tony]

Absolutely nothing its been proven to work by tens of thousands of racers for the last 50 or 60 years.

markm, are you talking about screws or glue?

[55 Tony]

Seems to me that "slicks" and "handling" don't belong together in the same sentence. :D

Yes, I learned that quickly without any warning! How about "how to make them go a little more straight"? Handling does imply turns which I didn't mean to talk about. I ordered inner tubes. I'll try it first with them, then try adding 2psi and try that.

[markm]

markm, are you talking about screws or glue?

Screws .

[chasracer]

I am a little lost here and maybe missed something. Are you talking about handling at the drag strip? Are the wheels matched up to the slicks as in the recommended wheel width for the slick? Tubes are normally not needed unless the manufacturer of the slick says you need them. How many pounds of air are you running in the slicks? And forget the freakin glue - you can get a small kit from Moroso and other outfits that has the screws you need along with the correct size drill bit. Usually for this type of application about 5-6 per side. I would recommend making yourself a cardboard template to keep the screws fairly uniform in distance around the circumference of the wheel. Just as a note, I use 8 per side on my dragster. They are Hoosier 33 x 16 /15 on 16" wide wheels. Car runs 7.70's @ 182.

[55 Tony]

The poor handling was at the track. The back end was going right and left. I'm going to add more air and see if it makes a difference. They were at 16psi and are 9", wheels are 8". Recommended size is 8" to 10". Right now the street tires are on but when I put the slicks back on I'll try more air. They launched great! I was told it was close to lifting the front tires this time.
What will happen if say only one slick spins on the wheel? Will it turn the car one way or another? Or damage them?

[Bitchin'57]

There is something else that can lead to bad handling. With the slicks pumped up to exactly the same air pressure, measure the circumference of each slick, at the center. There should less than 1/2" difference between them.

[markm]

I am a huge fan of M/T slicks they are a low heat tire that when ran at 14-16 psi I do not have the issue to which you refer. The folks selling screw kits used to recommend 8 per side and included a math formula for spacing. An old timer just told me to get a ruler and line it up with lug nut holes and do 5 per side. I have 7, 8 and 10 inch wide Supertricks with slicks, I have ran 28x9s on both the 7 and 8 inch ones for years.

"What will happen if say only one slick spins on the wheel? Will it turn the car one way or another? Or damage them? "

With or without tubes, I told you my experience.

[55 Tony]

"What will happen if say only one slick spins on the wheel? Will it turn the car one way or another? Or damage them? "

With or without tubes, I told you my experience.

I don't believe you did tell me about your experience with slicks without tubes what happens when they slip/spin on the wheel?

[markm]

I don't believe you did tell me about your experience with slicks without tubes what happens when they slip/spin on the wheel?

See response #5 in this thread.

[55 Tony]

See response #5 in this thread.

I see nothing about a tire slipping with no tube inside???

[markm]

From my earlier post.

bad plan as spun the slick on the rim and the tube wadded up creating a sever imbalance at high speed.

Out of balance like right rear tire coming off the ground at speed.

[55 Tony]

From my earlier post.

bad plan as spun the slick on the rim and the tube wadded up creating a sever imbalance at high speed.

Out of balance like right rear tire coming off the ground at speed.

Without a tube?

[Rick_L]

Biggest problem with the tire bead slipping on the rim is loss of air pressure as well as ruining any balance work because the weights are now in the wrong place. That's without a tube. With a tube, add in the possibility of cutting the tube's stem.

When I had a race car, I never ran tubes except in the very early days. I got away from them due to weight and expense. The tires would lose pressure when the car was stored between races. I always stored the car on jack stands so that the weight of the car was never on a flat or nearly flat tire. And I always used screws, tubes or not.

[567chevys]

Had many Race cars over the Last 40 Years

They all had screws in the real wheels , BETTER SAFE than sorry !


Sid

[markm]

Completely agree with the both of you[Sid & Rick], but its Tony, he likes to ask a question he has already decided his answer to and then argue.

[55 Tony]

Completely agree with the both of you[Sid & Rick], but its Tony, he likes to ask a question he has already decided his answer to and then argue.

If you could read you would see that I didn't ask about glue. Not once. I stated that I was going to use it. Do you know the difference?
Also if you could read, you wouldn't have kept up with the same reply about the inner tubes when I kept asking about the tires slipping without tubes. Then when you finally caught on and saw that your multiple dumb replies were not addressing the question I asked, you then ignored the question and posted another incorrect statement.

[Bitchin'57]

If you could read you would see that I didn't ask about glue. Not once. I stated that I was going to use it. Do you know the difference?
Also if you could read, you wouldn't have kept up with the same reply about the inner tubes when I kept asking about the tires slipping without tubes. Then when you finally caught on and saw that your multiple dumb replies were not addressing the question I asked, you then ignored the question and posted another incorrect statement.


There is something else that can lead to bad handling. With the slicks pumped up to exactly the same air pressure, measure the circumference of each slick, at the center. There should less than 1/2" difference between them.
55Tony, I addressed your bad handling with the above reply, and you ignored it. Did you consider that a "dumb reply" as well? Before you look into tubes, glue, or anything else, you should start out be making sure your slicks are in fact the same circumference. I know of what I speak here. BTW, I'm with the others, glue is a bad idea.

[NickP]

I just don't understand. Why does it become necessary to carry on like this?

[55 Tony]

55Tony, I addressed your bad handling with the above reply, and you ignored it. Did you consider that a "dumb reply" as well? Before you look into tubes, glue, or anything else, you should start out be making sure your slicks are in fact the same circumference. I know of what I speak here. BTW, I'm with the others, glue is a bad idea.

Actually I checked the air and measured them much earlier today, but trying to keep up with markm led me astray and I forgot to reply. I do appreciate your input. The tires are within 1/4" of each other with the same air pressure in both. As far as the glue, thanks but it was never a question. There are many people doing it with good results, people with a lot more HP than me.

[55 Tony]

I just don't understand. Why does it become necessary to carry on like this?

Because I'm a sucker and fall for bullcrap from some here. My apologies.

[Bitchin'57]

Actually I checked the air and measured them much earlier today, but trying to keep up with markm led me astray and I forgot to reply. I do appreciate your input. The tires are within 1/4" of each other with the same air pressure in both. As far as the glue, thanks but it was never a question. There are many people doing it with good results, people with a lot more HP than me.
I'm glad you measured them. 1/4" is great!
Just an FYI, I used screws to secure my ET Streets to the rims, went tubeless and used Dawn dish detergent to eliminate leakdown. I will confess that on a couple screws, I had to seal them up with YamaBond 4 case sealer.
If you really want to stiffen the sidewalls for better handling, go beadlocks.

[55 Tony]

I'm glad you measured them. 1/4" is great!
Just an FYI, I used screws to secure my ET Streets to the rims, went tubeless and used Dawn dish detergent to eliminate leakdown. I will confess that on a couple screws, I had to seal them up with YamaBond 4 case sealer.
If you really want to stiffen the sidewalls for better handling, go beadlocks.

After sitting almost 2 weeks the one still had the same pressure and the other lost a little. I was going to question screws causing leaks. I've seen beadlocks but don't know how they install/work. Do you still have to drill the wheels? My wheels match my fronts and I guess I'm worried about quiting the racing and needing another rear wheel due to some mishap. They are the same as my rear street wheels, and they are discontinued and hard to find. When I got them for the slicks I got the last one at Summit and found a "blemished" one from Jegs on ebay. The only "blem" I found is that it was obvious it was mounted on a car, didn't really show signs of a tire being on it.

On a side note, a few days ago I went for a little ride in the morning when it was cool out. WOT on the interstate on ramp which is concrete, for the first time I'm pretty sure it chirped 3rd! (street tires) And before someone scolds me for doing that, the speed limit is 70 and everyone is going 80, so after letting off the throttle, I was at the right speed to merge.

[JT56]

I've seen beadlocks but don't know how they install/work. Do you still have to drill the wheels?

Beadlocks do not drill into the tire. The bead of the tire is squeezed between the two. I have no leaking issues at all with mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VaZZj1h9_4

[markm]

Everyone I ever knew with a street/strip car had two sets of wheels and rarely did they matcj the front. My first slicks were recaps on stock steel wheels.

[55 Tony]

Everyone I ever knew with a street/strip car had two sets of wheels and rarely did they matcj the front. My first slicks were recaps on stock steel wheels.

I don't know why, but around here spare 15" 5 x 4.75 rims are as rare as hens teeth, even ones that are too narrow for slicks let alone some 8 or 9" ones.

[55 Tony]

I've seen beadlocks but don't know how they install/work. Do you still have to drill the wheels?

Beadlocks do not drill into the tire. The bead of the tire is squeezed between the two. I have no leaking issues at all with mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VaZZj1h9_4

So do you need either a beadlock wheel or a beadlock that gets welded to the wheel?

[chasracer]

Hmm... With that much air pressure there might be two things going on here. One is that while a 8-10" wheel is recommended, anytime your wheel width is smaller than the tire width, you pinch the tire a bit leading to the center being more pronounced that the side areas. Secondly I would think that the sidewalls are pretty firm so I don't think that is an issue. You could be up on the crown of the slick down track which in turn could mean you are riding on maybe 5-6" of tire width on each tire. I also take that the rear suspension is basically stock? No air shocks right? Weight bias of the car front/rear could also be having an affect on the handling. Typical instant center point of a stock vehicle can be sitting out in front of it. If I remember correctly, a leaf spring vehicle is measured as an imaginary line drawn through the rear upper spring attachment bolt and the front spring attachment bolt. Traction bars will move the IC in much closer to the engine. Don't overlook the front suspension alignment and condition in relation to steering inputs (from you or worn components) that could be affecting keeping the car straight and true.

[55 Tony]

chas, when I had less air, doing a burnout in my driveway left rubber on only the left and right sides of the tire, nothing in the middle. Adding air made it more even across the width. As for the sidewalls, I "think" they are pretty flexible. Giving it throttle not much more than off idle easily wrinkles the tires. I have Caltracs and the front end is all basically still new and tight. With street tires it runs straight as an arrow on the street and track. No, no air shocks.

[markm]

I have a couple 15x8 Vette Rallys set up for slicks, In nthe 70s I used 15x7 Monte Rallys..