Brake conversion

[craig j]

I about to convert my brake system on my 57 Belaire. I want front power disc and rear drum. Any ideas on what products to use and best prices and service. Thanks, Craig

[NickP]

Budget?

[chevynut]

Avoid the disc brake conversions based on the 68-72 Chevelle rotors as they move the wheel mounting surfaces out by 7/8" per side. These tend to cause tire rubbing problems on lowered cars while turning if the wheel offset isn't corrected to account for the wider mounting width. There are better solutions out there that don't move the wheels out nearly as much.

[craig j]

2 grand

[NickP]

2 grand

Present front suspension modifications to include wheel/tire if any? Wheel size (diameter) now or will be bart of overall package?

[craig j]

I have 18" rims all around. this work for brakes only, I'll convert to power steering at a later date.

[NickP]

I have 18" rims all around. this work for brakes only, I'll convert to power steering at a later date.

So, presently no dropped spindles or other modifications to your front suspension? Any plans to do so later?

[craig j]

All I intent to do later is add power steering.

[markm]

Since you are in to the gang banger look you need to listen to the king of gang banger look Cnut not me. normal cars with 15 inch wheel do fine with Camaro/ Chevelle stuff.

[Rick_L]

Everyone is beating around the bush here as far as giving you much in the way of facts.

The "baseline" conversion uses 11" Chevelle/Camaro rotors and calipers on the stock spindles. As said, the Chevelle rotor pushes the wheel outboard by 7/8" which may be a tire rub concern.

A similar conversion that won't push the wheels out is a "zero offset" kit for stock spindles. It uses a separate hub, usually one from a 61-68 full size Chevy, a "hat" type rotor usually the rear rotor for a 79 TransAm, and the Chevelle/Camaro calipers. It's an 11" rotor.

A higher end conversion for stock spindles is a Wilwood setup. They offer them with 11", 12", and 13" rotors, and either 4 piston or 6 piston fixed calipers.

Dropped spindles don't use the Chevelle rotors. The baseline package is 10.5" Malibu rotors and calipers. You can get upgrades for the Heidts and Ridetech spindles, but some of the others can't be upgraded.

[BamaNomad]

Avoid the disc brake conversions based on the 68-72 Chevelle rotors as they move the wheel mounting surfaces out by 7/8" per side. These tend to cause tire rubbing problems on lowered cars while turning if the wheel offset isn't corrected to account for the wider mounting width. There are better solutions out there that don't move the wheels out nearly as much.

Can you name / list a solution that you consider 'better'??

[BamaNomad]

Everyone is beating around the bush here as far as giving you much in the way of facts.

The "baseline" conversion uses 11" Chevelle/Camaro rotors and calipers on the stock spindles. As said, the Chevelle rotor pushes the wheel outboard by 7/8" which may be a tire rub concern.

A similar conversion that won't push the wheels out is a "zero offset" kit for stock spindles. It uses a separate hub, usually one from a 61-68 full size Chevy, a "hat" type rotor usually the rear rotor for a 79 TransAm, and the Chevelle/Camaro calipers. It's an 11" rotor.

A higher end conversion for stock spindles is a Wilwood setup. They offer them with 11", 12", and 13" rotors, and either 4 piston or 6 piston fixed calipers.

Dropped spindles don't use the Chevelle rotors. The baseline package is 10.5" Malibu rotors and calipers. You can get upgrades for the Heidts and Ridetech spindles, but some of the others can't be upgraded.


Thanks Rick! That's the information I was hoping to see, and possibly what the OP desired as well...

[chevynut]

Can you name / list a solution that you consider 'better'??

No I can't, can you? I just know there are several of them out there and I have personal experience with the problematic Chevelle rotors. Lots of guys have rubbing problems with them when turning, and the car doesn't even have to be dropped to experience it. If the suspension compresses enough to "simulate" a 3" or so drop, the tires can rub at full lock. You can run into that turning hard into an elevated driveway, or something similar. It also depends on the width of the tires and the offset of the wheels.

The point is, why mess with them when they widen the mounting surface so much and there are many known better options? Others here like Rick have a lot more experience than I do with disc brake conversions, as all of my recent tri5 work has been with C4 setups.

[chevynut]

https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172693

"Just getting my car back together and have a problem. I installed a CPP 5557SWBK-D with a 12-UG 2" drop upgrade kit. Running 225/50-17 tire on 17X7 4.5 backspace American Racing wheels. They are rubbing when I turn the wheels and I don't think there is anyway I can get the car aligned due to mounting alignment heads. The combination of the offset of the knuckles and the Chevelle style rotors moved the wheel to far out. Any suggestions? Will I have to replace knuckles or just rotors or install a different kit?"

There's lots of posts like this complaining of rubbing problems with the Chevelle rotors. Note also that this is on dropped spindles, so Rick's statement that they're not used on dropped spindles is incorrect.

[NickP]

If you go in for a custom fit suit and they don't measure you for it, how will it ever fit you. My particular, "beating around the bush" was to determine ALL possible scenarios so what he purchased fit forever.

[Rick_L]

Chevynut, the CPP 5557SWBK-D brake kit doesn't use Chevelle rotors - it has 13" rotors. On the other hand they also claim it moves the wheels in 1-1/8" (but doesn't say compared to what).

So the moral of that story is not "don't use Chevelle rotors", it's "don't buy from CPP" because they misrepresented their product. I won't buy anything from CPP any more because of that, as well as their quality and customer service issues.

Nick, not rapping your response, it's just that the thread was starting have a lot of replies and few facts.

At least my reply got some discussion started, even if it's not helping the OP.

Also there are other choices besides the ones I listed. I just tried to hit the highlights.

[chevynut]

This info is from CPP. I don't know if it's correct or not.

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/165598/

This is a list of wheel offsets for the 55-57 cars. All measurements where taken from the wheel mounting surface to the center of the lower ball joint using a surface plate and height gauge. Many companies claim different measurements for the exact same rotor and spindle combination. If in doubt, ask which brake rotor they are using.



0.0 CPP drop spindle = No change in track width. Minimum wheel: 14” disc type.



+3/8” O.E. spindle with narrow hub and CPP 13” rotor = 3/8” wider per side. Minimum wheel: some 16” all 17”.



+3/8” O.E. spindle with CPP “Zero Offset” 10.8” rotor = 3/8” wider per side. Minimum wheel: 14” disc type.



+7/8” O.E. Stock spindle with standard hub and CPP13” rotor = 7/8” wider per side. Minimum wheel: some 16” all 17”.



+7/8” O.E. Stock spindle with standard 11” rotor (common Chevelle rotor) = 7/8” wider per side. Minimum wheel: 14” disc type.



+7/16” O.E. spindle with ECI “Zero Offset” 10.5” rotor = 7/16” wider per side. Minimum wheel: 14” disc type.



+3/16” Heidts drop spindle with 8215 rotor = 3/16” wider per side. Minimum wheel: 14” disc type.



+7/8” Heidts drop spindle with CPP 13” rotor = 7/8” wider per side. Minimum wheel: some 16” all 17”.

Thanks,
Aaron @ Classic Performance
www.classicperform.com (http://www.classicperform.com/)
aaron@classicperform.com
800-522-5004

[Rick_L]

That's great but the kit in question said minus 1-1/8" (that from CPP too). Right now with all the negatives associated with CPP I question anything they say or do. They are just not reliable.

[Rick_L]

By the way Cnut, I'm not arguing with you or the OP because I think what you guys are saying is the way it is - just saying there's conflicting info out there. Conflicting bad info.

[56Mark]

I put this kit on from CPP a few years ago. http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1955_1970_Fullsize_Cars/5557SWBK-D12.htm

It does not come with the stainless hoses shown but that is noted. It says does not change "steering geometry". I would disagree. I called before hand and asked about how far it would set the wheels out and was told 3/8". I decided I could live with that. Before and after installing, I measured carefully and about 5/8" is how much each wheel was pushed out. I was not happy and complained uselessly. When I bought new wheels, I compensated and bought with an extra 1/4" offset, so I am back to about 3/8". They are 15" wheels.

Other problems with the kit: 1. the rubber brake hose are/were tooooo dang long. I could not get them routed where they didn't want to rub the wheel. 2: the hose connection on the calipers came off at the wrong angle and made the hose problem worse (there are at least a couple of versions of these D52 style calipers with different hose connection locations). 3. one of the spindles did not have the tapered hole cut deep enough for the tie rod end to go in far enough to get the castle nut on with the cotter pin through.

My fixes: Buy new calipers. Buy correct stainless braided hoses from Inline Tube. Drill the taper a few more thousandths. After all of that I am happy with them. Would I buy this kit again? NO WAY. I am done with CPP too.

[markm]

I have never used anyone's kit just brackets because I have a supply of VG OEM rotors off early 70s Chevelle and Monte. Just add reman calipers and 74 Z28 hoses. Total cost ends up around $150.

[Troy]

I have never used anyone's kit just brackets because I have a supply of VG OEM rotors off early 70s Chevelle and Monte. Just add reman calipers and 74 Z28 hoses. Total cost ends up around $150.

Mark,

what are the reman calipers off of? I have GM Metric calipers on the kit I just bought, it didn't come with hoses so I was wondering what to use. Thanks

[markm]

Mark,

what are the reman calipers off of? I have GM Metric calipers on the kit I just bought, it didn't come with hoses so I was wondering what to use. Thanks

You can do it two ways, I prefer to use larger early 70s Monte calipers {non metric} and longer Camaro hoses. If you have brackets for Metric calipers I would start with 1985 Olds Cutlass stuff.

[Troy]

You can do it two ways, I prefer to use larger early 70s Monte calipers {non metric} and longer Camaro hoses. If you have brackets for Metric calipers I would start with 1985 Olds Cutlass stuff.

Thanks Mark, I bought the whole shabang with Metric Calipers, late 70's early 80's rotors, 2in drop spindles and I need to figure out what hoses to use. I may just order them from Mcnaughteys.

[markm]

Troy, I would bet that if you went to local parts house and looked at a mid 80s Cutlass, Monte Carlo or 2wd S10 you would find a hose that worked.

[NickP]

For the sake of the website and keeping things in some semblance of order, I think that rather than hijacking a thread, regardless of the similarity of ones personal experience, it's probably best to start a separate thread of your own.

[Rick_L]

That's fine but we have also lost any continuity on the original question which was pretty vague anyway - which prompts discussion of similar topics that could be OT to some. Sometimes things just turn out that way.