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WagonCrazy
04-12-2012, 05:54 PM
First...some background info:
I bought this 57 Nomad in mid 2008 shortly after completing a frame-on restomod build of my first wagon (9 Passenger wagon called "Harriet"). The previous owner of this Nomad approached me at a local car show, after looking for what seemed like a half hour at the detail of the 9 passenger build. Turns out after talking with him for a while, he was in the middle of this Nomad build and was losing interest (and his eyesight). I was not looking for another Tri5...but a 57 Nomad was one of my dream cars since childhood, so when he told me about his build and I found out we lived less than 10 miles apart...curiosity got the best of me. Turns out, he had done a nice job of doing a frameoff LS1/T56 conversion, using the stock frame with a stock front A arm/CPP500 steering setup and a Ford 9"/rear leaf spring setup. The LS1/T56 combo came out of a 2002 Camaro. It was lust at first sight, so we finagled a deal and I bought it.

It looked good nearly NO rust or bondo, and my initial plans were to just finish it up and drive it. Here's a pic of it in his garage the day I went over to load it up on my trailer and bring it home.

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Fast forward a couple of years to 2010, and with 3 kids in high school and all their activities and booster club stuff, I hadn't really done much on it. Mostly because I had started to see better builds...like custom frames and suspension setups, better mods, etc. All that waiting time allowed a better build plan to galvanize in my head, and in 2010 I had Laszlo (aka ChevyNut) build me a custom frame set up with a C4 suspension in mind, and also some AME center bracing to stiffen it up. I decided I wanted a Tri5 that drove MUCH tigheter and better, and was growing tired of the stock lumbering feel of my 9 passenger wagon. I placed my order with the Fabricator of Frames (that's you Laszlo) and then made a road trip from Los Angeles to Ft. Collins Colorado (on what had to be the coldest weekend in January that year...it minus 10 degrees driving back thru Utah that morning!) and picked up the frame. Here's some pics...

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Over that next year, I managed to buy some C4 components pretty reasonably, including a Dana 44 rear end setup, and got them bolted into the frame...along with a set of C5 Corvette wheels/tires that I bought from a guy off Craigslist for $300!

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Then kid's # 1 and 2 hit college in 2010,2011 and low and behold...there went a boatload of money OUT of my car fund and into the states of Calif and Ariz college systems. Good grief...

Now it's 2012, and the boatload of cash transfering to the 2 states continues (with 1 more on the way next year), but I managed to pull the body off the existing frame and swap in the new C4 frame setup, and now I'm right in the middle of finishing up a new firewall (fabbed from scratch out of 16 gauge sheetmetal) and will then move around the back end and fab up the rear floor, rear seatback-bulkhead, fuel tank, etc. The stock frame with the previous owners placement of the LS1/T56 allowed the body to be bolted on with no firewall mods, but with this new C4 setup...the firewall needed to be changed. (Secretly admitting here that I hated the look of the stock firewall anyways....so it was a good reason to break out the Lincoln 110V MiG welder and start at it...)

go to the next post...more pics there...

WagonCrazy
04-12-2012, 06:03 PM
So I am doing this build in my 2 car garage, and without a 2 post lift...have devised a workable way to lift the body off the frame (nearly every day as I work on it). You'll see that in the next set of pics.

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Don't laugh...those "poor mans 2 post lifts" are actually old-school cabover camper jacks with a 2x4 horizontal support between them at the top. And they are SOLID and they work pretty darned good for a po' man like me! It allows me to work on the car at my leisure and lif the body up and down often to check fittment, etc. The rockers in this Nomad are solid and there's no evidence of any flex when supporting the body at the rocker seam area. It balances well on about 36 inches of 1/4 inch plate steel .

So at the moment, I'm working on the trans tunnel sheetmetal fix, since the T56 sat so high...and will soon get that all buttoned up.

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And then it's on to the back end, where I have to figure out the fuel tank strategy, which in-tank pump setup, plumbing the fuel and brake lines along the frame to the front, etc. Fun, fun, fun.

I have a zillion questions to ask you guys as I move forward, and am looking forward to your expertise as I come across decisions to make. That's what I like the most about the forum community...the collective brain trust being shared amongst us all.

Paul

chevynut
04-12-2012, 08:42 PM
It's looking good Paul! Keep at it and you'll get all those issues resolved in no time. Bruce is here too, and he's done just about exactly what you're in the process of doing with the LS-1/T56 and C4 setup. Keep the pics coming!

misuraco
04-12-2012, 10:02 PM
Very Nice.

MadMooks
04-12-2012, 11:08 PM
awesome Paul!

smooth 56
04-13-2012, 09:39 AM
Look's good ,I like the lift you made wouldn't have thought of that.

WagonCrazy
04-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Look's good ,I like the lift you made wouldn't have thought of that.

I really only need to lift the body about 36" off the ground, in order to roll the chassis out, so that puts the top of the roof below my cieling height.
it does work well...other than tripping over the tripod feet once in a while. :rolleyes:

Blown_Shoebox
04-14-2012, 06:57 AM
Cool story and real neat build you have there Paul. I did something similar with a side lift when I restored my old Camaro years ago. On my 55 body, I mounted a couple 4x4 posts across the rafters in the garage and ran some chain down and around it as an anchor point for 2 come-a-longs and ratcheted my car up at the firewall and the rear. Worked great to allow me to work on smoothing of the firewall and dropping it down to test fit everything. I ended up setting it on blocks when I was ready to start banging and welding the firewall on and it worked great.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/00119.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/00117.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/00110.jpg

I look forward to seeing more of your build as you grind along. Thanks for sharing Paul.

Graeme

carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)
04-15-2012, 06:41 AM
good read, enjoyed the story and pics. thanks paul.

56-210Sedan
04-15-2012, 07:03 AM
Very nice, keep up the good work and keep the pics a coming :cool:

WagonCrazy
04-17-2012, 03:23 PM
Update:

Still messing with the final fab of the firewall. Lately I've gotten the mastercylinder-brake bracket mounted in, and put the hydroboost on to check fitment. Everything seems to fit OK. I'm now starting to figure out the clutch mastercylinder & rod alignment and how to fab a bracket and mount it to the firewall. What you see in this pic was designed and fabbed by the previous owner, where there was a 7" vacuum booster in play. it may still work, but I need to check the clutch pedal movement and make sure the clutch rod will engage enough (but not to the point that it bottoms out on the MC or it will break it...it's plastic after all).

And I discovered after reinstalling the Ididit steering column (that came with the car when I bought it), that it's about 2 or 3 inches too short. doesnt fit thru the firewall enough to get that bottom mount on. Aargh...need to get a longer one I guess. This was originally intended to mount to a CPP500 on the stock frame, and a vibration dampner style ujoint. This steering column is a 30 inch unit. I need a 32 or 33 inch unit to extend all the way thru the firewall...then connect it with ujoints and DD bar down the the C4 rack.

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I also decided (after fabbing up this new firewall) to move the engine/trans FORWARD about a half inch...since there's room to do it and it was just too tight (back of engine to firewall). The firewall has a 2 3/4 inch setback, but in the end...that wasn't really enough. So I'm going to remove and relocate the motor mount "perches" that Laszlo welded onto the C4 crossmember for me when he fabbed up my frame. I want the motor mount and the perch under it to be all lined up nice and centered. Right now, it's off quite a bit.

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Lots more tweaks to sheetmetal and Mig welding to do here...

Double Nickel
04-17-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm running the Ididit 1140550010 column and it doesn't come through the firewall very much on mine either, so I added a rubber seal around the center shaft on the firewall side. I think they keep it short so the rag joint can fit between the column and the box, and there wasn't much room for error in mine when I mounted it up. My firewall has a second overlay welded on for smoothing and I ended up ditching my CPP500 box because of poor header clearance with my big block. I went to a power rack and ordered the polished stainless couplers and the D shaft from Borgeson. Works out just fine!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/Testing.jpg
Not a great shot but you can see the column here.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/IMG_3247.jpg
(it's as short as yours so you may have the right one. I used a Borgeson floor mount on the inside to align & hold it firmly.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/1955%20Chevrolet%20Build/Feb12008.jpg
Stainless shaft from Borgeson.

chevynut
04-18-2012, 12:23 PM
Hi Paul,

As we discussed, we have been installing the LS engines further forward than we did yours. We used your actual measurements to locate your engine, and it should have worked out, but I did notice later that Wade's engine was further forward than yours and his fit very well.

If you would like new LS mount perches (the ones on the k-member), I'll send you a pair for free. Let me know.

WagonCrazy
04-18-2012, 04:50 PM
If you would like new LS mount perches (the ones on the k-member), I'll send you a pair for free. Let me know.

yez, boz. that would be great. I want to move 'em forward and think by the time I cut the existing ones out, they won't look good to refit them.

Thankyou.

WagonCrazy
04-18-2012, 04:55 PM
That looks nice DN. Whose rubber gasket did you use there? Wondering if it will hold the water out on a rainy drive.
I'd like to get a column that goes competely thru the firewall an inch or two...just because it seems like it would mount firmer, and I could avoid any kind of seperate inside bracket holding it to the firewall that way. That's just me being picky.

Problem is, not sure I can find an Ididit column, with the collar for a 57 (they are different than the 55,56) and one that is LONGER than the usual 30 inches meant for a CPP 500 setup. I need to call someone at Ididt and discuss it with them to know for sure.

And they are pricey too boot. gonna be $500 just to get a plain steel one shipped to me probably.

one step forward- two steps back- fall on your face- get up and do it again...with a grin...:rolleyes:

WagonCrazy
04-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Another update:

So I stared at that short steering column long enough to decide to try using the mount on the inside, rather than the outside. The column (at 30 inches) technically will work, as long as I can get a firm mount at the very end of it where it passes thru the firewall. So I goofed around with it a bit this morning, and this is what I came up with.

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While I was at it, I also cut thru the firewall and mounted the clutch MC and got both the clutch and brake rods attached to the pedals.

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Then I put in the Vintage AC Condensor unit under the dash and marked where I will be welding in the studs on the inside of the firewall, to "hang" it from.

More to go...

Still need to figure out where I will pass the AC lines thru the firewall and cut those in, fill all the unused holes, as well as re-think and re-do the way the hood hinges mount. I'm not happy with the bolt heads on the inside of the cabin...so far up under the Vintage AC unit that you can't get to them. I'm thinking of welding in all 3 nuts (for each hinge) to the inside firewall, and then slotting the hinge bracket so I can adjust it up/down and tighten all 3 bolts from the under the hood. Anyone else ever done this?

chevynut
04-21-2012, 03:43 PM
Paul, IMO you should move your column forward some if you can. I sat in a 57 with a tilt column and it felt like the steering wheel was in my chest...and I'm not a big guy. I moved mine forward a couple of inches. Wade did some mods to his that you might want to look at here:

http://linger.com/nomad/Interior.htm

http://linger.com/nomad/Interior33.jpg

http://linger.com/nomad/Interior36.jpg

WagonCrazy
04-23-2012, 12:23 PM
This column that I have is about 6 inches or so from the end to end.

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If I cut that gauge pod down like Wade did, then I'm dealing with a different shaped collar than what he has... and I dont' think it's gonna look good. I might be able to dissassble the column, then shorten the collar from the steering wheel side (on the gauge pod side) and maybe gain 1" shorter overall...

I've also discovered that the column I have doesn't have any mount holes/nuts built into the column, (below the instrument gauge pod...where the round bracket mounts from under the dash) so not sure how to mount this in without dissassembling this column completely and adding holes/nuts to make it work.

Aarrgh...always a chore to build something unique.

chevynut
04-23-2012, 12:28 PM
Paul, Wade's column is a Flaming River. I don't know how much shorter he was able to make it. If you could push it forward, you would gain on the firewall end, obviously. Mine is a 35" column.

BTW, e-mail me your mailing address and I'll get those mounts on the way to you.

jim '57
04-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Cnut I wish my Ididit had been 35, that would have made life a lot easier.
Jim

WagonCrazy
05-09-2012, 05:59 PM
Well there's really no update at this time. I had to move the Nomad out of the garage for a few weeks, to get some subterrainean termites executed. Darned boogers been coming out of the crack in the slab-footing every spring for 4 years now, getting more and more of them. Had to completely dismantle EVERYTHING on or near the floor of my 2 car garage (including the workbench) and have the slab drilled every 24 inches and had some chemical called Termidor injection sprayed in the dirt under the garage and house. Was NOT planning to do that this year but the first warm spring weekend arrived and thats' when they exit the nests...looking for mates and more wood to eat. NOT MY HOUSE THANKYOU. It's dropped $250K in value in 4 years now, and I'm protecting it from the termites anyways. What a fool.

So I will be putting it back in about 2 weeks (business trip becons between now and then)and get back to that steering column issue. I'm wondering if I can dissassemble the column completely, trim down that collar and pickup the 1 inch that I need to get it closer to the instrument panel AND thru the firewall a bit more. We'll see...

Paul

BAM55
05-10-2012, 12:44 PM
I really like your project man it looks to be coming along great.

WagonCrazy
05-10-2012, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the compliment BAM. I'm a little bit wiser on this one, having done a major "frame on" restoration-build of the 9 passenger wagon first. With those experiences and choices in mind, I move onto the Nomad and want to make it even nicer. One of these days we'll meet up since you and I are in the same region of the country. I'm considering driving the 9 passenger wagon out to a show in June in San Pedro called Cars and Stripes Forever. Its an afternoon-evening show with fireworks over the harbor after dark. My buddy designs alot of fireworks shows around here, so he mentioned this one to me. Its Friday night June 29. Will have to brave the 405 south thru the westside of LA to get there, but that goes with the territory when you live around here in sunny SoCal. Talk to you sometime soon.

WagonCrazy
06-06-2012, 05:15 PM
and get back to that steering column issue. I'm wondering if I can dissassemble the column completely, trim down that collar and pickup the 1 inch that I need to get it closer to the instrument panel AND thru the firewall a bit more. We'll see...

OK. Back into car building mode. Got rid of termites, kids out of school-college for the summer (with gainful jobs I might add) and work is busy but my head needs a break so back to the Nomad build.

The latest on this is that the column I've been assuming all along I would use, is really too short for this Corvette rack setup. It barely exits the firewall and it's missing a tilt lever and the hazard button is broke off and the collar at the dash doesnt quite fit over the gauge pod correctly, so I think I'm gonna bit the bullet and get a new tilt column that is several inches longer than this one, so it exits thru the firewall more completely.

Then I need to figure out the steering ujoint-tube situation. The Corvette rack is a 17mm DD style nub. I need to put a rag joint or a vibration dampner style ujoint on it and then configure it to go around the header tube and up to the 1" DD steering column shaft.
Been lurking around Summit building a wish list of parts I'll need and I'm over $250 for the linkage and ujoints and $400 more for apaintable tilt steering column. Yikes....
Thought I could use what I had, but it doesn't seem to want to work well...
More to come...maybe some pics if I get out there in the garage tonight after the LA Kings win the Stanley cup!

chevynut
06-07-2012, 02:42 PM
Paul, I used Borgeson stainless u-joints and a splined stainless shaft for my steering. Top u-joint is the dampening style with the 1" DD and splined lower end, and the bottom one is 3/4" (I think) DD on top with splines on the bottom.http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/667324/57161057.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/667324/377006853.jpg

WagonCrazy
06-25-2012, 01:13 PM
Spent the better part of the weekend in the garage, thrashing out the removal and replacement of new motor mount perches (to move the engine 3/4" forward). Along with that, built the connection between the steering box and the steering column.

Ended up going with the existing short column, as it does protrude (ever so little) thru the firewall. Used a 1" to 3/4" dd "coupler", then lengthened the column reach using 3/4 dd shaft, to a billet ujoint, then re-used the existing Corvette rag joint and modified one end of the existing Corvette aluminum shaft to complete the connection. Bascially just cut it to the necessary length, and sanded/filed it to fit the 3/4 DD shape. Worked like a charm!

I didnt' start out this way, but using the existing Corvette lower rag joint and shaft worked way better than plumbing in an aftermarket rag joint (17mm DD on one end & 3/4 DD on the other end) and 2 billet steering joints. I tried that, cut and plumbed it all in and it was so loose at the rag joint connection that it hit the C4 cradle and header when you turned the steering wheel. So I'm returning about $150 worth of un-needed parts back to Summit.

Here's some pics.

453 454 455

The Hooker headers are "LS for tri-5 with aftermarket rack n pinion steering". I forget the Summit item # at the moment, and they are really not the right ones for this C4 application, but they will work. That clearance to the #1 header is about 1/8th inch...

I might pull the drivers side header off and have a custom tube bent up for the #1 spot, and then cut and reweld it in there...to increase the spacing for the steering shaft. It's functional as it stands now, but very close. That header heat will transfer to anything in that close of proximity...

Progress...ever so slow. But continues.
Paul

smooth 56
06-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Lookin good my friend glad to saee you'r making some progress, will be glad when mine get's that far along.

Geoff
07-03-2012, 06:44 AM
Really nice job!

You actually inspire me talking about how you're juggling kids, work, and the Nomad.
Keep up the good work.

NickP
07-03-2012, 10:31 AM
HOT ROD POWER TOUR will inspire you.

WagonCrazy
07-31-2012, 08:09 AM
I have nearly every aspect of this Nomad torn apart at the moment, with no pics to post...but here's the rundown:

Pulled the rear axle-hub assemblies apart to media blast, and put in new Energy Suspension bushings, new hub-bearing assemblies (it's all one piece...you can't replace just the berarings) new drilled & slotted rotors, cleaned up and painted the stock calipers, longer wheel studs and 1/2 inch spacers to get the C5 wheels positioned in the stock wheelwells properly, etc.

Working on the custom firewall, to finish it up to include a sleeve over where the steering column protrudes. To clean that up a bit, since I ended up putting an extension on the end of the column to lengthen it to where I needed it to be in order to align wiht the rack connection point.

Re-doing the trans cross mount piece that Laszlo originally made. I ended up moving the engine-trans forward 3/4 inch from where I had him spot it originally, so all the mounting points changed...

Still have the trans tunnel floor sheetmetal all opened up. Once the trans is fitted in it's permanent spot, will close that all up and figure out the center console layout so I can incorporate the mounting points.

Plumbed in the MAF and air cleaner "temporarily". It makes a sharp 90 degree turn towards the driver side with the air filter just behind the top radiator support bar. Pics coming soon.

Still need money for:
Custom fuel tank with in-tank pump setup
Plumb stainless fuel and brake lines
Determine and order coilover shocks on alll 4 corners
figure out where I will spot the ECU and wiring harness routing. One day it's inside the cabin, the next day it's in the inner fenderwell. Can't make up my mind. I dont want to look at a bunch of wires in the engine compartment once it's all done.
Finish the interior cabin sheetmetal work (front and rear seat mount bases, rear bulkhead, floor mods for the C4 dogbone connection points, etc.

All that and more just to get to the point where I can start it up and see if this LS1 engine will run...

chevynut
07-31-2012, 09:29 AM
Sounds like you're making progress Paul. Glad you got that engine positioning corrected. I just wondered why you moved it forward if you were replacing the firewall anyhow.

Also, I put my ECU inside the console, and have almost no wiring showing in the engine compartment.

WagonCrazy
07-31-2012, 01:15 PM
Also, I put my ECU inside the console, and have almost no wiring showing in the engine compartment.

If I pass the wiring thru the firewall, it's 70 wires. Seventy... Nobody makes a plug that handles even half that.
I want to be able to unplug the wires so painting and reassembly is a snap. Looking for the right place to pass that many wires thru without making it so obvious.

chevynut
07-31-2012, 01:31 PM
I have something like 36 wires going to my engine. I just put a grommet in the hole, and passed the wires through it. I can unplug the harness from the engine and pull it back into the inside of the car, I believe. There is some sort of connector or terminal on every wire to the engine.

5Clint7
07-31-2012, 02:15 PM
If I pass the wiring thru the firewall, it's 70 wires. Seventy... Nobody makes a plug that handles even half that.
I want to be able to unplug the wires so painting and reassembly is a snap. Looking for the right place to pass that many wires thru without making it so obvious.
I found this.
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=605&d=1343769095

Rick_L
07-31-2012, 05:21 PM
How much does that little baby cost?

WagonCrazy
07-31-2012, 08:59 PM
Google search on Deutch DRB128 connector turns up all kinds of sites selling it and NOT ONE OF THEM shows a price.
Guess it's whatever they think you'll pay when you have to call in and inquire...

The firewall hole needed for this connector would be big enough to pass the whole ECU connector thru with all the wires attached. Granted, I'd have to figure out a way to seal it with all the wires passing thru, but I'll bet this little pupply goes for over $100. Too spendy for me...

Rick_L
08-01-2012, 09:05 AM
I was thinking it wouldn't be cheap either.

chevynut
08-01-2012, 10:20 AM
Why are there 70 wires? Do you really need them all? I re-wired my Holley C950 ECU and took out some unused wires. You should only have about 6 sensors, 8 injector wires (mine are batch fired 2x4) and some ignition wiring (coils, knock sensor, etc.), AC, Alternator, and fuel pump control. Is there a separate wire to each coil?

I was just wondering if perhaps some of those wires could be deleted.

Rick_L
08-01-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't know about the deletions, but many of the wires you mention don't have to go through the firewall anyway, do they? Especially if you have an underhood fuse/relay center. I guess that ends up in the passenger compartment if you're very vain about hiding stuff, but there's other places too (inner fenders/compartments).

WagonCrazy
08-18-2012, 12:17 PM
It could be possible to delete a few wires, but most of them seem necessary. Many of those sensors and injectors have 2 or more wires each. As for ecu mount location, was trying to mount it in the center console behind the shifter but thats just a stink load of wires to put thru the firewall somewhere, so am considering moving it to engine compartment inner fender well area somewhere.
Main fuse panel will go behind the rear bench seat in a new bulkhead seat back area I'm going to fab up soon. Battery and stereo amp and bass speaker will go in there also. I'm planning a secondary fuse-relay panel in the engine compartment also. Haven't yet crystallized on the overall wiring strategy just yet. So many variables to consider.

WagonCrazy
11-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Update: investigating a fuel tank solution...

Custom made? or prefab? It all depends if it will fit. There is a bunch of room now that the spare tire well is out of the picture, but the limiting factor is the rear swaybay location as it crosses over the frame. Makes it a bit narrower between it and the frame cross piece in front of the rear bumper.

Boo hoo because for about $484 + tax and shipping...I can get a fairly stock looking fuel injection tank, in-tank pump, sending unit and straps.
here's a pic
969

it's about 2 inches too "long". Won't fit up tight to the bottom of the cargo floor. Would have to move the swaybar out of the way.

This stock C4 rear swaybar pointing to the rear and over the frame is not helping to avoid a custom tank...

Maybe I could mount it pointing forward...attached to the AME cross member? Anybody done that with a C4 conversion frame? got any pics?

chevynut
11-15-2012, 08:20 PM
Paul, I put Wade's swaybar in front of the rearend, below the frame. I don't like how it looks, because you can see it hanging down below the frame rails. The Wagons have a lot more vertical room from the frame to the floor....I think my tank is 10.5" deep. I had a custom swaybar made to be able to make the tank larger.

I think you can mount the stock tank spaced down a bit from the floor on a sedan or a HT. I have also seen them notched. Most guys use custom tanks like a Rick's tank which WILL fit behind the swaybar.

I have also seen the swaybar mounted below the frame, behind the IRS. The guy built new links to connect it to the knuckles.

chevynut
11-16-2012, 10:00 AM
Paul, that looks like a pretty nice tank. Is it baffled? I wondered for a long time why someone didn't offer a direct replacement EFI tank.

What are the dimensions? Do you have a link?

I have been thinking about offering my own tanks, but I'm not sure I have time to design and build them.

chevynut
11-16-2012, 10:03 AM
Paul, you can see Wade's swaybar in this picture.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/1279938/191215948.jpg

And you can see it uner the car here:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/1279938/397391684.jpg

chevynut
11-17-2012, 06:47 AM
Hi Paul,

Thinking about your tank some more....I noticed a problem with the one you posted. The filler is in the wrong location for a wagon. My filler is at the very front of my tank, in the same location as a stock wagon filler as you can see in the pic below. In fact, I used part of the stock filler tube. I don't know how you could deal with that, but I suppose you could relocate it.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/14164434/233590905.jpg


http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465705/14164434/357619384.jpg



If you resolved the filler issue, in my opinion the easiest and cheapest solution to the swaybar problem would be a custom swaybar. I had mine made for only $250 to my specs but that company is now out of business. I would make it like the stock C4 swaybar back to the bushings, then I would have the center of it between the frame rails bent so it's 2" further forward to clear the tank. A lot of OEM swaybars are bent to go around other things on the car. I think Hellwig makes custom swaybars.

chevynut
11-17-2012, 08:00 AM
One problem with putting the swaybar below the frame, behind the IRS is that it causes exhaust routing problems. I remember looking at that option at one point. You would have to drop it significantly below the frame to clear the tailpipes, and it would look like crap, imo.

chevynut
11-17-2012, 08:11 AM
Here's some pics of a Rick's tank in a frame we built. NCW has used the Rick's tank in his frames too. The swaybar is in the same location on his frames.

WagonCrazy
12-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Update- I ended up buying the Tanks Inc. setup mentioned a few posts ago. Got their FI tank 570-CG (its made for a sedan...they don't make 'em for a wagon just yet). Also got the GPA-4 in-tank pump setup for up to 600hp, and TAN-GME fuel sender unit (for my 0-30ohm Classic Instruments gauge) and the 567-STS stainless steel tank mounting straps and hardware. This tank appears to be 18 gallons and has the filler tube at the rear of the tank (not the front as on wagons and nomads). So...since my stock Nomad filler tubes dont line up for this rear filler tank, for another $100 in new parts (from Danchuk), I will swap the Nomad filler tubes out with new sedan upper and lower filler tubes. It should fit just like it came off the assembly line like that.

1098 1105

So now the issue is the swaybar bushing/bracket mounting location at the very front of the tank. Without raising the swaybar up off the top of the frame, it hits the front of the fuel tank. I really wished this tank was made about 1 inch narrower (front to back) because it would have allowed use without any swaybar mounting mods. As you see in the next pic, the swaybar bushing/bracket mounting point at the frame (left and right) will need to be raised up minimum 2 inches and more like 2 1/2 inches in order to slide the tank far enough forward. I put some 1" square tubing in here for temporary spacers...

1099 1102 1103

So now I need to come up with a design for a "raised swaybar mounting perch" that can be welded to the frame. I will be removing these mount perches placed when I had the frame originally built. It will look wrong to just put a 2 1/2 inch spacer in there permanently. So I'll have to come up with something for new mounts.

The fuel tank is only 8 inches deep, so with it placed where you see in these pics...it sits up parallel with the bottom of the frame rails, and this still gives another 2 inches of clearance between top of tank and bottom of wagon floor. You can't see the tank from the back of the Nomad! Nice...

1100 1101 1104

I need to fab up some top-tank framework to weld between the frame rails "over the tank" so that I can use the stainless steel tank mounting straps and mount it tight to the bottom of that framework (not to the bottom of the wagon floor...I want this mounted using the strength of the frame...not the sheetmetal floor.)

So my cost to date...with the tank + pump + sender + straps + new upper and lower fuel filler pipes + misc stock brackets, hoses and o-rings for those filler pipes...I now have about $700 in this tank setup.

It's not the polished stainless that a custom tank would have been, but I'm about $500 under that deal.

More than anything I wanted to figure out if an "off the shelf" set of items can be configured to deal with a tri-5 FI tank setup that ends up saving significantly over the higher priced stainless tank setups offered in the marketplace. Hopefully this can become a lower cost way of doing it, for the next guys coming along...

I'll post more pics and notes as I move along here and build that "swaybar bracket perch" and "top-of-tank framework" for mounting the tank tight against it.

chevynut
12-09-2012, 04:49 PM
Paul, looks good so far. I really wonder if your stock filler is going to work. The stock sedan tank sits pretty far forward of the rear crossmember, and I'm sure you're is all the way back. It will likely work, but not without some modification.

The extra parts sure added some cost to the tank setup. I think Rick's tank is "off the shelf", but it would also require a new filler tube.


So all you lack is 1" from making it work with the swaybar? I still think the custom swaybar may be the way to go. Problem is, then you're up near the cost of a Rick's tank. What about cutting and re-welding the swaybar? I think that can be done successfully. You could just move the mounts forward the 1" that you need then. I'd cut it close to the link end. If it's hollow like many of them are, you could reinforce it with another tube or rod,

WagonCrazy
12-11-2012, 08:08 PM
It turns out that our favorite west coast tri-5 parts vendor is out of stock on the 57 sedan "upper and lower" fuel filler tubes...so I'm going to try a different route....

I have a 57 9 passenger wagon also. Got under it to see what that filler tube situation looked like, because the fuel tank sits at the very rear of the wagon, between the spare tire carrier and the rear-most frame crossmember. Son of a gun...the lower filler pipe passes thru the underfloor in the EXACT place I need it to run for this new tank.

1106 1107

So I'm going to try using the upper fill tube from the 9 passenger wagon, and then cut and modify the lower fill tube I have from the Nomad.

More to come when parts show up and I figure this all out. I can't make the tank mount to frame apparatus until I can spot this tank exactly where the filler pipes need to come in, and then determine the swaybar mounting options.

I might even cut an inch off the ends of the swaybar and re-drill new end link mount holes...

WagonCrazy
12-12-2012, 09:37 PM
What was I smokin? None of the usual tri 5 suppliers have filler tubes in stock, much less the now rare 9 passenger ones :eek:
So I'm gonna hack up the nomad filler tubes I have and just make a modified filler tube combo to get this new tank spotted in place.

Was trying to avoid that as these nomad tubes and stock tank are all painted up and would sell for a good buck as a complete set.

Oh well, two steps forward...one step sideways. Carry on...

chevynut
12-13-2012, 07:54 AM
Paul, just get a new upper part and use the neck. That's what I did.....cut the neck off and used a new mandrel bent tube for the rest.

WagonCrazy
01-17-2013, 08:05 PM
Ok. The holidays and flu are now behind me. Back to work on figuring this out.

Found a set of filler tubes from a sedan (used) and they seem like they will work with a little bit of fabbing modifications.

Still stuck on just exactly where to mount this tank and deal with that stock Corvette C4 swaybar being somewhat in the way. The best bet is to just raise it up from where ChevyNut welded the swaybar mounts on the frame. That gives extra clearance to get the tank in there.

I've been all over the internet looking for custom swaybars, make your own swaybars, etc. and no matter what I do....buying another one adds $200 to $300 more to this. For that...I would have just bought a Ricks Tank and called it a day....

But I'm resolved to make this work so here's a quick pic I took today.

1238

You can see where I unbolted the swaybar from the frame mounts and slid it forward 2 1/2" to clear the front of the tank. But that won't work on the front end of the swaybar (where it mounts) and I can't really shorten it 2 1/2 inches...so I'm going to just raise it up from the existing frame mounting point and then figure out how to fab up a way to hold the tank to the frame back there.

1239

More to come in the days ahead.

WagonCrazy
01-27-2013, 07:25 PM
Update:
I fabbed and welded up a fuel tank mount bracket that bolts to the frame. Set it up so that I could use the stainless tank straps that came with the Tanks Inc tank. It's actually 2 pieces...the other piece being the 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" square swaybar riser with a 1" square tubing crosspiece welded in that alse doubles as the front tank strap mounting point.

1248 1249 1250 1251

There's more work to do to clean this up, but the tank is mounted in there now, and the body can be lifted off the frame without touching the tank. And theres room to make a trap door in the wagon floor for access to the pump and sending unit.

The trick was to raise the rear mounting point of the swaybar 2 1/2 inches from where the original mounting brackets were welded onto the frame, so the tank could be slid forward under it. Rather than cut those off the frame (such nice tig welding Laszlo does!) I decided to just add a 2 1/2" spacer. The bottom plane of the tank is now ABOVE the bottom of the frame rails! Yeah baby...

Next I need to make a slight modification to a sheetmetal brace under the passenger side of the wagon floor, where the filler tube comes thru it to connect to the tank. Need to get that filler tube to align exactly to the tank opening, so that a stock sedan filler tube can be used. I'll take a pic of that when it's done, so you can see what I'm trying to describe.

The whole point of this exercise was to avoid spending $1400 on a custom made FI tank with the intank pump setup. I think I'm almost there for about half that....

WagonCrazy
02-04-2013, 03:47 PM
Update:
Got the fuel filler hose and tubes plumbed in yesterday. Used a stock upper from a 57 sedan and cut it down just a bit, then used a stock lower from a 57 sedan and cut it down and used 3 solid pieces + 3 rubber hose pieces and 6 clamps ($22 total) and ...it's plumbed in.

laying on your back on the floor, looking straight up at it...
1265

standing above the cargo area, looking down thru the hole in the floor
1266

underside of where the filler tube exits the back of the fin
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underside where the filler tube passes thru the wagon floor underside brace. Notice I had to open that up a bit...
1268

Still a little bit more metal cleanup to do...but it's functionally plumbed in.

So for about $700 total cost (tank, pump, sender, steel for custom tank bracket, fuel filler tubes, clamps, etc) I have the fuel tank system (for an LS1 engine) in place.

Now I need to plumb the fuel pump forward to the engine and plumb the brake system while I'm at it...

chevynut
02-04-2013, 05:48 PM
Nice job Paul. I have thought about offering a custom frame-mounted tank solution for my C4 frames, but haven't embarked on that just yet. The tank you got looks like a nice solution, but it's too bad it doesn't clear the swaybar. I don't know if I could even build one for near that price. Mine cost about $400-450 for just the materials and parts.

I think I could offer that tank with the mounting framework and a custom swaybar that would work well for less than the cost of a Rick's tank.

Is that tank baffled?

chevynut
02-04-2013, 06:40 PM
Hey Paul, I was looking at the Tanks, Inc. website and I was curious if you had considered using the 41-48 Chevy or the '53-54 Chevy tanks. They are shorter front to rear, and a little wider.

55-57 tank is 24 1/2 x 25 x 8
41-48 tank is 29 1/4 x 21 1/4 x 9 1/4
53-54 tank is 29 1/2 x 21 1/4 x 9

Seems like 21 1/4" front to back would fit very well behind the swaybar. I don't know the orientation of these, but I think they could be turned so the filler is on the correct side. There would only be 3" in either side of the tank to the frame, so the exhaust would have to run below the frame like stock. Whatcha think?

I think these tanks are identical except for the filler location. I don't know how you put an in-tank pump in it but they say you can.

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=123/category_id=144/home_id=143/mode=prod/prd123.htm
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=114/category_id=144/home_id=143/mode=prod/prd114.htm
http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prdp_75.jpg






http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_114.jpg (http://www.trifivechevys.com/index.cfm?ptype=results_w&mode=zoom&image=prd_zm_114.jpg)

WagonCrazy
02-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Is that tank baffled?

Yes, and there is a tray welded within that the pump sits down into. I'll pull the pump out and try to get my camera inside and snap a shot just to confirm.

Would either of these other tanks fit better?
Yes. The shorter "front to back" length means the swaybar can move back down onto the top of frame location "in front" of the tank. However, for "non wagon" builds, the trunk floor sits much lower relative to the top of frameraiils, and shoves the tank even lower down...hanging somewhat below the frame rails. So a 9 inch deep tank is not the end of the world, but is fully visable from the back view...so you just want to conisder this.

We're definately on the right track here, and my goal was also to help you figure out just which FI tank setup WOULD work for your future builds. It's an important cost factor when considering a C4 frame setup. I think fewer guys are building Foose quality (and cost) builds (necessitating a $1300 polished Ricks tank) and more and more are moving over to nice drivers with LS drivetrains with performance suspension setups in mind. If you could do that for under $15K total (c4 frame + c4 suspension hardware + used LS engine/pcm/harness/trans setup)...you could buy a resonably bodied tri-5 "junker for $5K...then put this $15K setup in, and for another $10k in paint and upholstery...have yourself $30K into a very nice driver resto-mod car. Obviously at this proposed cost...it means "you build it yourself" and your time is NOT factored in.

I liked the idea of trying to stay with the stock rear C4 swaybar on this build, because it makes swapping out for a stiffer one "easy" later on...should I find the ride to be too soft with the 24mm bar. (vs the Z51? performance 26mm bar which I'm in the hunt for..or an even stiffer one from the custom corvette performance vendors).

I'll snap that pic of the inside of my tank and post it soon.

WagonCrazy
02-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Update:
Here's some pics of the inside of the TanksInc tank that I'm using.

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You're looking down thru the fuel pump hole which is less than 2 inches in diameter and I can't get my camera all the way down inside to get a better pic.
There is a tray immediatly under the pump hole approx. 6 inches x 9 inches wide x approx. 3 inches tall. The tray is spot welded to the bottom of the tank, with a couple of 3/8 inch holes drilled at they very base to allow fuel to pass thru slowly.

There doesnt appear to be any other baffling within the tank.

WagonCrazy
03-01-2013, 09:35 PM
Update:
This may seem out of sequence for the stage my Nomad build is in...but it needed to be done before this could hit the road...so I did it.

Got my lifgate back from MadMooks yesterday after a coulple of months of him having it and doing the full monty resto on it. This thing was in marginal shape at best when I brought it to him, and now it looks BETTER than the day it rolled off the assembly line. Freakin Awesome!

1308 1309

While I was at it (spending money that is) I got his liftgate "anti-rattle" piece. Super nice polished stainless!!!!!!!!!

1310

And while I was at it (spending more money) I got the:
Lower liftgate hinges (billet aluminum)
Upper liftgate hinges (polished billet aluminum)
Lower liftgate "strikers" (polished stainless)
Upper liftgate gas struts (stainless)
Lower liftgate hinge "covers" (polished stainless)
Lower liftgate outer hinge sleeves (polished stainless)
New glass rubber seal.

Mike (MadMooks) is working on some new parts, and I have an order in for those too (cable guides in stainless material...hopefully out soon) + some other stuff I've been sworn not to mention. :razz: Trust me on this...he's on a roll with filling a niche in this tri 5 market. Not bad for a guy who's half the age of most of his customers! Thanks for the extra measure of customer service on my gate resto Mike. Stay with it...

WagonCrazy
03-06-2013, 08:27 PM
Update:
Got to messing around with the top of the LS1 engine over the last few days. I had not ever pulled the fuel rail or injectors off it (since I bought this about 4 or 5 years ago now) so I decided to pull take a look at the injectors and try cleaning them. Found a bunch of YouTube videos on how to clean your injectors in a home-made setup, so I pulled 'em and did the deed. They seem to all spray just fine and the cleaning was certainly warranted.

I went to put on new o-rings and found that I had a o-ring stopper piece missing on one of them. Turns out that was the one I blasted across the garage with compressed air when I didnt' get the hose clamp on tight enough before I filled the chamber with injector cleaner and compressed air. :cry:

So I figured that I'd just go to my local auto parts store and buy a new one, and found out that was a $150 screw up.

One fifty for a single injector for a 2002 LS1 out of a Camaro. Sheesh...

A full set would be more than 2 carburetors!!!!!!!! (but I'm not going back to carburation).

Yes, I'm whining now.

WagonCrazy
03-10-2013, 07:57 PM
Update:
You guys ever get excited about acquiring a very cool tool?
I'm at that point in this build where I need to plumb in new fuel lines and brake lines, and being this is a Nomad with a C4 chasis and LS powerplant...I didnt' want to run plain old steel lines. I've loved the look of stainless plumbing against a painted frame ever since I first saw custom cars built. There's something about it that says "high-tech look" to me. So I decided to run stainless steel lines. The first thing is the fuel lines from this new tank to the engine compartment.

I've never played with AN fittings before and wanted to use those on this build. So in order to do flared stainless tubing, you gotta have a quality flaring tool.
I've never owned anything but the junk...so I went online and got a very nice new 37 degree (AN) single/double flaring tool made by Mastercool. Nice set, with fittings for 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2 tubing. This thing uses a hydraulic action to flare the tubing, and makes it sooooooooo easy to get them right on the first try. Here's a pic of the tool:

1312

And here's a pic of how far I got today. Just a supply line and return line to the Corvette filter/regulator.

1313

Bending 3/8 stainless is really not fun, and takes a bit of strength and finesse when you are using a tubing bender tool with a fairly short handle. I could use a better one, but the one I have will work for this build. The brakes will probably be plumbed in 1/4 inch stainless tubing, so that will behave a bit friendlier in the tubing bender.

That's it for now. ;)

NickP
03-10-2013, 10:30 PM
I have that same tubing flare unit, makes good flares.

Run-em
03-11-2013, 04:30 AM
Congrats on your "cool tool". Tubes look good on the chassis.

chevynut
03-11-2013, 07:58 AM
Paul, I bought a full set of 3/16" to 1/2" tube benders on eBay for a pretty good price. The ones made by Parker are very good and we used to use them to plumb gases in the IC fab I worked in. There's another good brand but I can't remember the name right now....don't get cheap ones. I'd loan mine to you if you lived closer. ;)

WagonCrazy
03-12-2013, 10:11 PM
I definately need to get " real" tubing bender. Not the junk that I currently have.
Was looking online and see that the Ridgid 600 series is made for industrial grade bending (stainless, etc)
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/600-Series-Tubing-Benders/

Was looking at Google shopping for the model 604 (1/4 inch) and 606 (3/8 inch) which I'll need for both fuel lines and brake lines, and it's north of $300 for both of them together.
Will I ever make up another set of bent hard tubing if I spend that? Tempted to do it. I'm staring at 4 other types of tubing benders I somehow acquired over the years and all of it is great for very soft stuff (which I will probably NEVER install on any future build). Hmmm....

chevynut
03-13-2013, 09:10 AM
Paul, look on eBay. I think I paid something like $25-40 each for my benders.

For a one-time use I would be happy to ship my benders to you as long as I get them back when you're finished. I don't need them anytime soon, as far as I know.

So if you can be done in a few weeks, the offer is there.

WagonCrazy
03-13-2013, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the offer Laszlo. Let me ponder that a bit...

This is my current collection of junk tube benders. Work fine for anything EXCEPT HARD STAINLESS LINES!

1316

And this is what I get from using the junk to bend 3/8 stainless. No matter how slow I go...deformation of the tubing to the point that I would suspect it restricts flow...

1317 1318

Do your benders look like these? with the wheels?

http://www.drillspot.com/products/1620507/Ridgid_606_38043_Tube_Bender_Lever_3_8_In_OD_15_16 _Bend

chevynut
03-13-2013, 08:32 PM
Paul, I just looked at my benders and they are Imperial-Eastman. They all look like this one....

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Imperial-Eastman-tubing-bender-1-2-/00/$(KGrHqZ,!lwE2FneCBc9BNpQHDtyBw~~_35.JPG

We used both Imperial-Eastman and Parker benders in the IC Fab. Mine do a great job on stainless lines. Here's my 3/8" fuel line plumbing.....

NickP
03-14-2013, 07:53 AM
Thanks for the offer Laszlo. Let me ponder that a bit...

This is my current collection of junk tube benders. Work fine for anything EXCEPT HARD STAINLESS LINES!

1316

And this is what I get from using the junk to bend 3/8 stainless. No matter how slow I go...deformation of the tubing to the point that I would suspect it restricts flow...

1317 1318

Do your benders look like these? with the wheels?

http://www.drillspot.com/products/1620507/Ridgid_606_38043_Tube_Bender_Lever_3_8_In_OD_15_16 _Bend

Are you using Anealed 3/8" Tube? I have bent a pot full of 3/8 with none of the issues you are experiencing. My particular benders are two Rigid and the little Eastman.1321

chevynut
03-14-2013, 08:27 AM
Good question Nick, but I didn't think you could even buy anything but annealed stainless tubing. Paul, do you have the specs on your tubing? What's the wall thickness?

It's important that the tubing bender supports the sides of the tube when it's being bent. Stainless is especially tough to work with if you don't have top-notch tools.

WagonCrazy
03-14-2013, 08:41 AM
I bought a 20 foot roll of 3/8 stainless tubing from Summit.
Here's the specs...right off their website...

Brand: Summit Racing Manufacturer's Part Number: SUM-220238 Part Type: Tubing Product Line: Summit Racing® Stainless Steel Fuel and Brake Hard Line Summit Racing Part Number: SUM-220238

Tubing Material: Stainless steel Tubing Outside Diameter: 0.375 in. Tubing Finish: Natural Tubing Length (ft): 20.00 ft. Quantity: Sold individually. Notes: Wall thickness is 0.028 in. These stainless steel multipurpose lines are ideal for plumbing fuel or brake systems. These aircraft quality stainless lines are double annealed for easy flaring and bending. All of the lines have been pressure tested and checked for safety.

WagonCrazy
03-14-2013, 08:47 AM
I have been using the gray colored bender in my pic...and each time I bent a section, the quality of the bend went south.
It appears as if there is NO side support occuring due to tool deforming (because its JUNK for hard stainless lines)

Laszlo...your bender has a longer set of handles which (right off the bat) would make this process easier, but the bending bar itself looks like it just slides down the tube via friction. The $200+ benders I've been looking at all have 2 small wheels thre, so the wheels roll on the tubing as you bend it. The mfg specs say that means no marring (which is not a big deal for hard stainless). I'm gonna have to re-do some of this line at some point, but I may just continue on using the black tool (also in my pic) and get the Nomad runnign and streetable for a shakedown session, then when the car gets dissassembled down to every last piece, rebend new lines at that point.

One step forward, fall down, curse a few times, dust myself off, stand up and move forward again...all the while nursing the healing scabs.
I'm gaining a very new perspective on these guys that build custom cars for a living. I'm just a privateer doing this in my garage for myself. You guys that do this for money can't possible make a buck unless you charge WEALTHIER individuals for ALL of your time, no?:-?

NickP
03-14-2013, 09:40 AM
Hang in there! The light at the end of the tunnel is just the WhiteHouse with all of the lights on - keep on diggin!

chevynut
03-14-2013, 08:20 PM
Paul, my benders don't have the rollers, but I don't think they're necessary. I haven't noticed any problem with my benders at all. One thing...it seems like your tubing has really thin walls. I think mine were .035" or so. I got mine in straight lengths from the Parker Store locally. I hate trying to straighten coiled tubing and make it look good.

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.bb22d5a82bbb5b147cf26710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=a2d9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCR D&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextcatid=2578596&vgnextcat=INCH STAINLESS STEEL TUBE 316/316L&vgnextdiv=687614&vgnextpartno=R3/8X0.035TP316/L&Wtky=

NickP
03-15-2013, 01:26 PM
My tube comes from inline tube

Rick_L
03-17-2013, 06:00 PM
"I didn't think you could even buy anything but annealed stainless tubing."

I think most of the tube you buy at a metals supply is not annealed.

I am with Nick, if you buy from Inline Tube, it will be annealed. Perhaps it's annealed after making it into tubing. I do know the Inline stuff is easier to flare and bend than other choices. And there's no big price difference.

chevynut
03-18-2013, 07:33 AM
Sure you can buy tubing from Inline tube or other places, but I believe it's all coiled. How the heck do you straighten it to make it look decent without waves in it? That's why I buy mine from The Parker Store in straight lengths. They sell them up to 20 feet long, and there's no shipping cost.

WagonCrazy
04-17-2013, 12:52 PM
Update:
I haven't made any progress on the Nomad build in about a month now. I'm still looking for a used Swagelok 1/4" bending tool before I buy the brake line and fittings. I want to try one of these tools on stainless. Problem is they are expensive. Like darned expensive for using them "every now and mostly then".
Here's what I'm searching for.

1481

1482

They don't come up too often used, and when they do, go for close to $150 for the 1/4" and over $200 for the 3/8" bender.
Don't know why I'm so fixated on Swagelok, but I haven't see anything else out there that looks like it can handle stainless tubing. All the conventional "friction bending" style benders I've used so far get messed up and the bend quality goes south after 5 bends or so. The tools aren't make for hard stainless.

Forgot to mention that I'm preoccupied with the last of the high school booster activities for my youngest son, and college trips to look and get him to pick one. After June, I get my life back for my hobby again. But the money...don't get that...goes to the colleges. Am I whining loud enough yet? :mad:

Rick_L
04-17-2013, 05:03 PM
I don't see anything different about the Swagelok bender in the photos that isn't a feature on an Imperial Eastman or Ridgid bender. But I've never had one in my sweaty hands.

chevynut
04-18-2013, 05:15 AM
Don't know why I'm so fixated on Swagelok, but I haven't see anything else out there that looks like it can handle stainless tubing. All the conventional "friction bending" style benders I've used so far get messed up and the bend quality goes south after 5 bends or so. The tools aren't make for hard stainless.


I have made a bunch of bends on stainless with my 3/8 and 1/4" benders, and they work great. I'm sure they've made a lot of bends before I bought them too. We made thousands of bends on stainless gas lines with the benders I used at work....Imperial eastman and Parker. They are made for stainless. The rollers might be a nice feature, and probably make it easier to bend, but I doubt the bends are of any better quality.

WagonCrazy
05-02-2013, 09:49 PM
I just picked up a used set of Swagelok benders (3/8 and 1/4 inch). Now I can resume with the fuel line install and the new brake lines...

Next up: need to figure out the brake fittings and get them ordered with new tubing also.

Once again, out of time...out of money. Maybe next month.

WagonCrazy
05-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Played around with these new benders a bit and what a difference it makes bending the 3/8 stainless! Like night and day vs. the POS benders I was using before.

1579 1580

chevynut
05-05-2013, 09:52 PM
Looks good Paul, now get to bending!!! ;)

BTW, I'm working with a customer on setting up a reasonably priced gas tank solution for my C4 conversions. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

WagonCrazy
06-03-2013, 09:57 PM
Well, OK...but I can't take all that much credit for what was on the internet and just needed to find it!
My only regret with my setup is that tank is only 16 gallons, and while thats not exactly small, it's not exactly large either. Wish I could find one in the 20 gallon range in that same shape. Too late for me, but maybe not the next guy.

Next up, I need to finish running the fuel line up by the engine. I did a quick job of it and dont' like how it came out. Need to buy more tubing and re-do a section.

Where do you guys order your straight stainless steel tubing lengths from? Need a 6' length of 3/8 for the fuel, and about 24 feet of 1/4 inch for the brake lines.

I did the first runs of fuel lines with rolled stainless and getting that straightened out was a pain. Want to try with straight lengths on the next go-round.

NickP
06-04-2013, 06:22 AM
In Line Tube.

http://www.inlinetube.com/

chevynut
06-04-2013, 07:26 AM
Where do you guys order your straight stainless steel tubing lengths from?

Look for a Parker Store near you. That's where I got all of mine. They have straight tubing to 20 feet long.

WagonCrazy
06-04-2013, 05:14 PM
There are several Parker stores in the LA area. Called the one in Burbank and they didnt have it in stock. Said the closest was south orange county and if i paid shipping could have it.
Not worth it...will just get my order together and call Inline tube and have them ship it all.

Now that I have this beautiful Mastercool AN tube flaring kit, I realize that most guys don't put their brake system together using AN fittings. Can't even find AN fittings for brake systems...

Going to have to order the 1/4 inch dies for the normal 45 degree "american" flare...so I can do up the brake system.

Aargh...

Love the tools I'm getting along with building this car! Those may be worth more than the car when it's all done. :p

NickP
06-04-2013, 05:55 PM
HUH!? I do all of my chassis brake lines in AN Stainless Fittings - double 37 degree with the same tool you have.

Rick_L
06-04-2013, 06:14 PM
Nick, I think he's complaining about fitting availability, not flaring.

You won't have much luck finding stainless fittings from the traditional hot rod brands like Russell, Earle's, etc. or at the easy sources like Summit or Jeg's. You can get plated fittings in those brands from those sources. If you must have stainless, google is your friend. Try Godman, there's others.

And 37 degree flares are always single flares, not double.

On the other hand, I don't have any problem doing a 45 degree double flare on the Inline tubing with my Ridgid flaring tool - if you want to use stock style inverted flares.

NickP
06-04-2013, 06:18 PM
As I said, I use AN fittings throughout my chassis builds. My point was that the fittings are out there if you know where to look for them. The plus side of his adventure is he has a great tool for the job - just takes some practice.

chevynut
06-04-2013, 07:08 PM
I used stainless AN fittings on all my brake and fuel lines. All 37 degree single flares. I got a lot of my fittings from http://www.jdaent.com/. You can also find them on eBay.

Some guys use stainless lines and aluminum fittings too.

hurddawg
08-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Greating looking Nomad!:cool: Have you been able to start your line running?

NickP
08-05-2013, 09:07 PM
And 37 degree flares are always single flares, not double.

Really? I have purchased a ton of brake lines in stainless from several suppliers that are double flare 37°. Every preformed brake line kit from AME is 37° double flare. Not trying to be argumentative, but just sayin.

WagonCrazy
08-07-2013, 08:17 PM
So far I've run my 3/8" fuel lines as 37 degree double flare. this tool makes it a breeze...
Haven't yet gotten to the brake lines. I do need to find the stainless fittings first.
I did the fuel with aluminum fittings but with the smaller brake lines...I'd like to stick with all stainless. Seems I would be able to tighten it that much tighter with stainless.

chevynut
08-07-2013, 08:45 PM
Paul, I wouldn't worry about aluminum fittings on brake lines. Check the fitting pressure specs to be sure. And you really shouldn't have to tighten them that tight if the flares are good. That being said, I used stainless fittings on all of my brake and fuel lines.

WagonCrazy
09-23-2013, 09:29 PM
Been bending stainless line and assembling brake system. No pics to show, but ran out of line and am waiting on more to come from Summit. Took more than the 20 feet I thought it would...following the contours of the frame and all.
I'll post some pics when it's done.

chevynut
09-24-2013, 07:59 AM
Took more than the 20 feet I thought it would...following the contours of the frame and all.


How many times are you going around the frame? :)

WagonCrazy
09-26-2013, 09:04 PM
Technically once...but there's a fair amount of bends on this build. Ill post some pics in about a week when I lift the body again and finish it up.
I decided NOT to do thru frame fittings, but instead just bent the lines around/over the frame for each corner.
Came out OK...should be functional. Most of this is covered up anyways...

sleeper55
09-27-2013, 07:18 AM
nice build

WagonCrazy
10-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Slowly moving forward with the plumbing...

Brakes are done.

Now moving onto the power steering to hydroboost to rack plumbing.

Hundreds and hundreds of dollars in AN fittings, stainless line, bending/flaring tools. :(

2602 2603

WagonCrazy
10-30-2013, 09:45 PM
Hydroboost to power steering rack and fluid tank…

2630

WagonCrazy
11-07-2013, 09:45 PM
2642

May be difficult to see what's going on here, but I'm finished with plumbing the power steering pump/rack/reservior TO Hydroboost.
Have yet to start the engine and put pressure thru this to check for leaks, but will do that when I get to the point of firing up the engine. (many months away)

WagonCrazy
03-23-2014, 02:35 PM
Geez, its late March and i havent hardly touched the Nomad since the holidays. Work got busy, but im starting back at this build...as i want to get it running this summer. More to come soon.

chevynut
03-23-2014, 04:25 PM
Good to hear from you Paul. Hope you get that Nomad running soon. It looks like you're not too far from doing that.

I've been back working on my interior, and I have 4 color panels painted to try to pick my final interior and exterior colors.

WagonCrazy
04-23-2014, 08:02 PM
Geez, it's late April and after the IRS got thru with me (on the 15th) there's no $ left for Nomad build parts. Aargh...

Lets just say I paid in enough on the 15th to buy another nomad....

I hate that I'm always financing other peoples lifestyles instead of my own. :cry:

chevynut
04-23-2014, 08:15 PM
Geez, it's late April and after the IRS got thru with me (on the 15th) there's no $ left for Nomad build parts. Aargh...

Lets just say I paid in enough on the 15th to buy another nomad....

I hate that I'm always financing other peoples lifestyles instead of my own. :cry:



I used to pay enough taxes every year to buy a new finished tri5...almost as much in Federal and State taxes as the median family income. This was the first year I filed as "retired" and it worked out well. I paid at a 4.09% federal tax rate, my income is at below poverty level, and I'm getting a nice refund. LOL! :) I hope Obama decides to give away "Obama Bows" so I can shoot my own meat and can stay off of food stamps. I paid NOT ONE CENT to Colorado. Yahoooooooooooo!!!

LMAO! I'm luvin' it!! Gonna play the games as much as I can, since they screwed me over so many years.

LEE T
04-24-2014, 12:37 PM
Played around with these new benders a bit and what a difference it makes bending the 3/8 stainless! Like night and day vs. the POS benders I was using before.

1579 1580

These really look sweet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo95bjm7WFM

WagonCrazy
06-26-2014, 08:47 PM
Well I bit the bullet today and called up Vi-King shocks and discussed my needs and ordered a complete set of double adjustable coil overs. $1098 shipped to my door, including spanner wrench, thrust bearing kit for each shock, and "t-bars" for the bottom of the front shocks (mount to the lower a-arm)
Went with a C-218 Front shock body, with 500# springs. 12.5 inch ride height.
Went with a C-210 Rear shock body, with 400# springs. 14 inch ride height.
Made in Minnesota...

http://vi-king.com

WagonCrazy
06-26-2014, 08:52 PM
I'll post some pics when they come and I get them installed.

I've also been welding up the trans tunnel, and other misc floorpan mods. Still working on that. Geez it takes lots of time and grinder/sanding discs!

chevynut
06-27-2014, 07:15 AM
Sounds like a pretty good deal on those coilovers Paul. I assume you set the car at your desired ride height and measured the shock length. We usually set the front at about 12" with the lower a-arm level and the rear I believe is 13 5/8" with halfshafts level. Of course you can run it a little higher if you want.

As for springs, I believe we have found that 450# works well in the front with an LS engine and 500# works in the rear. For some reason the IRS requires a heavier spring than expected. I will be interested to see how yours works out. I have 600# springs in front with the BBC now and I will probably go with 500 or 550# rear springs.

WagonCrazy
06-27-2014, 02:33 PM
I assume you set the car at your desired ride height and measured the shock length.

Yep. Seems like 12.5 in front is where I want it. 500 may be too stiff, but I'll find out when I get it roadworthy and then go from there. The coil springs themselves are $50 each from Viking.
Rear measured out at 14 ride height. 400 may be too light back there...

Front springs are 10 inches "unsprung" and rears are 12 inches "unsprung" so if they don't work, I can't swap 'em with each other. Will have to get new ones.

The main engineers from the King family were formerly with QA1 and started this company 2 years ago. They only make double adjustable coil overs, as well as straight shock only applications.

I almost went with Aldans (more local to me) but they were much pricier. About $1500 or so shipped to me + CA sales tax.

WagonCrazy
07-02-2014, 05:09 PM
UPS just delivered the coil overs. I'm so excited. Christmas in July!
Will try to get them all put together and installed over the long weekend and post some pics soon.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
07-02-2014, 05:29 PM
Awesome build !!!! I've just started my LS nomad project. I was considering C nut's C4 frame. I thank it's probably the best bang for the buck on the market. I wanted to keep my wheel well and run a stock tank so I decided to go another direction or else he would have had my business also. Good luck with it gonna a be way bad azz.
Rocky

WagonCrazy
07-06-2014, 05:24 PM
3229323032313232

Got the front coil overs put together and installed. It's a tight fit. Less than 1/8 inch to 2 main "touch points'.

The upper shock mount...near the top of the spring cap.
The lower (stock C4) sway bar mount...the spring almost touches about 1 inch from the bottom of the spring...about where the 2nd coil comes around....

Once installed though, and the weight put on them, the clearances seem to be ok (barely). But there's no room for error...thats for sure.

CNut, lets talk sometime about how this might affect future frames you build. Specifically, the design of that top shock mount, and the positioning of the holes in the front sway bar mounts (so it will allow the sway bar ends to be moved "fore" about 1/4 inch more.)

On to the rears!

WagonCrazy
07-06-2014, 05:35 PM
For some reason, the process of adding pics here gets them rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise.
I tried to adjust that on the pic end, to no avail...

Oh, you may notice I haven't sinched the coil springs up (with the spanner wrench) yet. They are set at the bottom for now. Will do the fine tuning next time I get under there.

chevynut
07-06-2014, 06:14 PM
Paul, I would be glad to consider your design feedback. ;) I don't think there's any need for "excessive" clearances, but if there is interference of it's too close for comfort, it surely needs to be addressed. After 50 C4 projects, you're the only one who has ever mentioned this to me. Your frame was #11.

I am surprised that the upper shock mount is an issue at all. Is there clearance fully extended? If so, there should be no problem. When I went to laser cutting the upper shock mounts, I re-designed them slightly and I think they have better clearance. What is the distance from the outboard side of the frame to the center of the shock bolt hole? I may have increased that slightly and I think the "legs" may be a little narrower than on yours. You can grind some clearance there if you feel you need more.

I always knew the swaybar was close, so we position the swaybar mount as far forward as we can without slotted holes. Your swaybar bushing clamps should be slotted, so it can be moved further forward if needed. I would recommend trying a different type of end link to allow it to move a little further forward. The stock link works, but it's pretty restrictive. Mine is close too. I ground the end of the swaybar down a little for more clearance.

WagonCrazy
07-06-2014, 09:08 PM
I am surprised that the upper shock mount is an issue at all. Is there clearance fully extended? If so, there should be no problem. When I went to laser cutting the upper shock mounts, I re-designed them slightly and I think they have better clearance. What is the distance from the outboard side of the frame to the center of the shock bolt hole? I may have increased that slightly and I think the "legs" may be a little narrower than on yours. You can grind some clearance there if you feel you need more.

Distance from the outboard side of the frame to the center of the top shock bolt hole is 1.25 inches.
When fully extended (jacked up the front end letting the wheels hang), the top shock hat binds ever so slightly at the thin portion of the mount. I can grind that down if needed.
But...when the front end is compressed to ride height, that top hat/collar rotates slightly...taking the binding off. I stood on the front frame horns and jumped up and down...articulating the suspension and it didn't seem to bind up there, so I think it's probably OK as is.


I always knew the swaybar was close, so we position the swaybar mount as far forward as we can without slotted holes. Your swaybar bushing clamps should be slotted, so it can be moved further forward if needed. I would recommend trying a different type of end link to allow it to move a little further forward. The stock link works, but it's pretty restrictive. Mine is close too. I ground the end of the swaybar down a little for more clearance.
I'm using Energy Suspension sway bar bushings and clamps, and I don't remember if they are slotted at this point. I need to get under there and loosen it all up and see if I can get the "forward" sway bar movement I want. Grinding some meat off the end of the bars really won't help, because its not the bars that bind. It's that stock square shaped end link setup that is very close (less than 1/16" inch at ride height). But again...jumping up and down on the front end didn't actually bind anything...so I will readjust it all and see if I can create a bit more clearance.

I think this will work out well without too much more fuss.

Want to get to the back end of the wagon and put the rears in next. :)

WagonCrazy
07-21-2014, 10:02 AM
Update:
Rear coil overs are in, and are a bit long. Wagon sits too high. Even though there will be about another 500 pounds when it's all assembled, I may still get a set of slightly shorter springs to see about lowering it more. The current 12 inch springs are adjusted all the way 'loose" to get it as low as possible. Ratcheting up on the adjustment nut just raises the wagon up more by extending the shock.

I started back on the sheet metal repairs to the floors and headed for the cargo area yesterday. Finished the floor and access panel for above the fuel tank.

3269

No on to fixing the floor above the "doggone" connections at the frame (under the rear seat). Those dog bone ends stick up about 1/2 inch above the plane of the existing floor. Will shoot a pic when I get done with that.

small steps forward...

chevynut
07-21-2014, 08:46 PM
Paul, I was wondering if you ran into dogbone interference issues with the floor or not. Wade did and I did, but for some reason some guys didn't seem to (or didn't mention it). Maybe it has to do with the body mount thickness or body placement on the frame. It's a minor thing, and I try to mention it to guys looking at the C4 setup. You can't avoid it by putting the dogbone lower in the front, because that will mess up the anti-squat geometry. The only way to really address it would be to move the rearend rearward slightly, extending the wheelbase, or lowering the position of the rearend in the frame which will raise the car. Both of those things would allow you to lower the dogbone and not affect the geometry.

By the way, I checked my new upper shock mounts and they are slightly longer from the frame to the center of the bolt. Perhaps I should increase it even more, but I'm not sure it's necessary. The "legs" are 1/2" wide.

If I were you I would not mess with the springs until you get all the weight on the car. I think the 400# springs are going to end up being a bit too light. I don't remember when I decreased the shock angle but I believe it was before we built your frame. So you should be able to use a lighter spring than Bruce and Wade used but I still think 400# is too light.

You don't want to try a shorter spring.... a lighter spring is the right way to address it. But again, I would wait until you have the car finished, full of fuel, etc. before I messed with final spring selection.

WagonCrazy
11-07-2014, 09:26 AM
I did end up with slight dogbone - to- floorpan clearance issues, so I made these sheet metal pieces and cut the floor and welded them in place. They will end up under the rear seat, so the welding ain't pretty, but it's done. Bottom pan gets fresh seam sealer all over the joints before final painting anyways...

3741 3742

Next up: I have to re-do the hydroboost & hydraulic clutch firewall mounts. I had that all done and plumbed in, then decided to use CNut's new hydroboost mount (no bolt heads showing) and that completely meant re-engineering the hydraulic clutch master cylinder mounting bracket which sits adjacent to the hydroboost, as the existing mounting bracket for it was incorporated into the old hydroboost bracket. I shoulda just left it alone...it was all plumbing in, but it didn't look "sano".

More pics to come on that next.

WagonCrazy
12-13-2014, 04:18 PM
What started off as an innocent changeover caused a bit of a domino effect...

After I got the hydroboost and stock Camaro clutch master cylinder mounted on the firewall and all plumbed in, I saw Chevynut's new hydroboost bracket (with the hidden bolts) and really thought that was a much cleaner look than what I had....so I bought one off him and started in with the changeover.

Not realizing all the stainless brake lines I plumbed in are now 1 inch closer to the firewall...so they are not aligned. Same with the clutch master cylinder...it doesn't fit anymore because the existing bracket cannot be used with CNut's new bracket. (Aargh...didn't consider that before I got started toppling dominos!) So I abandoned the idea of using that stock Camaro clutch MC and went with an aftermarket Tipton unit that is very compact and fits better.

So it used to look like this.
3819

Now looks like this.
3820

Back to plumbing stainless lines all over again. :(

Custer55
04-13-2015, 09:07 PM
How much travel do you have in your camper jacks? I looked at some online and most only have about 15". It looks like a good way to lift the body off and on with out investing a bunch of money. When I did my original frame off 25 to 30 years ago I jacked up the whole car and put the jack stands under the frame. Then took all the running gear, suspension etc. off the frame, removed all the body mounts, put a second set of jack stands under the body and then lowered the frame down away from the body. This worked good, but your set up looks like it would work a lot better. :)
Brian

WagonCrazy
04-15-2015, 09:23 PM
I can lift it 3 feet or more with these camper jacks. Works well. I can roll the frame out from under it if needed, or just lift it up enough to check clearances, etc.
Wish I had the room for a legit 2 post lift in my garage, but I don’t. So this is 2nd best option.

WagonCrazy
06-16-2015, 04:41 PM
Well life takes its toll on fabrication time. But I've managed to get ONE seat base set of brackets fabricated and bolted down. Now onto the other one.
These lexus buckets are nice, but I have to dang near take them competely apart to get the rivited mounts removed, and then weld to the base channel pieces.
I'll post some pics when I get the passenger side done.
time...marches...on....

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
06-17-2015, 08:07 AM
Do you have a picture showing hydro boost to head clearance or relation. I to bought the Cnut hydro bracket and wish to keep my vet coil covers on my Ls2 on the engine if I can. Worst case Ill just notch the cover to clear booster like I had to do to keep factory battery box on my 55.
Thanks
Rocky

WagonCrazy
08-23-2015, 09:07 PM
Got some work done today, time for an update.

The clutch master cylinder that came with the Nomad when I bought it was the stock 02 Camaro one. It was mounted at a funky angle to the firewall, so the previous owner fabbed up a bracket to allow it to mount in the proper angle, so the pushrod would fit to the inside clutch pedal. it was fugly.

Fast forward a few years during this build, and I decided to trash that stock Camaro Clutch MS and go with an aftermarket one (Tipton) that mounted flat against the firewall.
4835
Looks much better.
Also abandoned the flexible stainless clutch hydraulic line (clutch MC to the hydraulic slave cylinder in the T56 trans), and plumbed in a stainless hard line instead.

That meant the stock disconnect fitting at the slave cylinder needed to be changed out with an adapter to AN male.

In order to do that, I had to pull the trans to get to the slave cylinder.

That was today's job... lift the body up, pull the trans, swap out the disconnect for the AN adapter, then put it all back together.

I had not pulled the trans apart from the engine (since I bought the Nomad 5+ years ago) so was curious to see if I was dealing with a worn out clutch setup.

Much to my surprise, it was not worn or even dirty in there. The face of the throwout bearing was freshly coated with a copper colored grease and the disc looked great.

4837 4838

Last thing to do now is cut the hardline and install the AN fitting on it.

Hey Rocktopper: You asked about the hydroboost mount location in relating to the coils on the valve cover.
I will say that mine are close, only because of the style of master cylinder I'm using. Here's a pic.
Not sure if LS2 coil locaitons are different that LS1 (what I have)?

4836

chevynut
08-24-2015, 06:18 AM
Looking good Paul!

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
08-24-2015, 07:50 AM
Thanks!!! Looking good!!!!

WagonCrazy
04-01-2016, 09:49 PM
Decided to put the front clip together to see what this Nomad looks like with all the little things Ive been doing to it. Hadn't ever put the front fenders on since I bought it (disassembled). So there's alot of things going on in here. Most of this is fabricated, but not all of it hooked up (if you look very closely).

Here we go:

Stance (bottom of framerail sits 4 1/2 inches high off ground). ViKing coilover shocks.
5897

5898

Engine compartment. There's alot going on in here. I haven't started fabbing up the wiring loom(s). Need to get that all figured out (where to come thru the firewall, etc)
5899 5900 5901 5902 5903 5904 5905

Go ahead...ask your questions. Pick it apart. :-)

Custer55
04-01-2016, 09:57 PM
Looks good to me!! Nice to see some progress. :cool:
Brian

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
04-02-2016, 06:22 AM
Whats to pick looking Great!!!!

chevynut
04-02-2016, 06:51 AM
Looks great Paul. Are you planning to get it to the point of driving it before you tear it down to finish it?

I'm curious where the adjuster is on your front shocks at this point. I realize you still have fluids and a hood to bolt on, as well as glass and a bumper. Going through the spring calculations with another customer recently, we decided to have him try a 350 lb/in front spring and run it near the top of the adjustment to get a lower wheel rate and a softer ride. His 56 HT is set up just like your Nomad using QA-1 shocks.

One thing I'm lacking is actual empirical data on spring rates on finished cars. I got some from Wade and Bruce long ago but really need more to validate my spring calculator. I'm pretty comfortable with the front spring calculations, but the rear is still fuzzy. Their rear shocks were set up differently than I do them now.

WagonCrazy
04-02-2016, 08:40 AM
Heading out the door for the day, but tonight i'll get the QA1 order and spring specs together and post those. Just so you know what I did as another baseline.

And yes, I''m going to get it together to drive it and work out the gremlins BEFORE I tear it all back down for paint, polishing,etc.

WagonCrazy
04-02-2016, 05:47 PM
Fronts are ViKing #C218. The shock body is advertised as 10.48 max compressed (eye to eye) and 15.05 max open (eye to eye). I have 10 inch 500 pound springs on them, and I have them adjusted to the very bottom of the shock (as uncompressed as I can get them). If I adjust the spring tighter, it raises the front end. Not sure if I need to go with shorter springs or just lighter springs so i can compress them. I dont' have the bumper, hood or glass installed yet, so there will be more weight before I can get this dialed in.

Rears are ViKing #C210. The shock body is advertised as 11.57 max compressed (eye to eye) and 16.78 max open (eye to eye). I have 12 inch 400 pound springs on them. Same thing...spring is set all the way "loosest" and the rear of the Nomad sits higher than I'd like. BUT...I don't have the interior, glass, bumpers or tailgate/liftgate installed yet, so they will compress a bit more when I install all of that.

With all 4 mounted, it looks like each shock will allow about 3 inches more of compression...before the shaft "bottoms out".

chevynut
04-02-2016, 07:17 PM
Paul, I think we've discussed your shocks in the past but imo the C218 is just a tad long for the front application. We set the front suspension up for around a 12" ride height length shock. At 1/2 compression yours are at 12.77".

Wade's Nomad weighed in at 1870 pounds in front and 1816 in the rear, for a total of 3686 pounds with a full tank of fuel, I believe. Yours should be a bit heavier with the AME center section that's around 70 pounds, distributed approximately evenly, perhaps a bit more in the rear.

So I estimate your front end at 1900 pounds and the rear at 1856 with no passengers.

Using those weights and your shock lengths and a 12.1" ride height length, this is what my calculations show for the front:

If the nut is at the bottom of the shock (no spring preload) the spring rate should be 489 lb/in
If the nut is 1" from the bottom of the shock the spring rate should be 367 lb/in
If the nut is 2" from the bottom of the shock the spring rate should be 294 lb/in

The reason for these low spring rates is that the spring is significantly compressed at the ~12" ride height. If you go higher than that, the spring rate will be higher.

Using the rear weight and your shock lengths and a ~13.5" ride height length, this is what my calculations show for the rear:

If the nut is at the bottom of the shock (no spring preload) the spring rate should be 667 lb/in
If the nut is 1" from the bottom of the shock the spring rate should be 508 lb/in
If the nut is 2" from the bottom of the shock the spring rate should be 410 lb/in

Again your rear shock is fairly long so it's more than 1/2 compressed at ride height. You have a lot of weight to install in the rear.

I'm much more uncertain about the rear calculations and I used a "fudge factor" off of bruce's car to "calibrate" my calculator. His shock angle in the rear was much more than I do now (he built them himself) and he was using different shocks than you are.

My standard shock recommendation is QA-1 401/402 in front with 14"/10.125" extended/compressed length. In the rear I recommend a QA-1 501/502 with a 17"/11.625" extended/compressed length. I like to run the rear springs softer so they're compressed more at ride height. A longer shock helps accomplish that.

chevynut
04-03-2016, 07:28 AM
Just to be clear, when I refer to the height of the nut from the bottom of the shock, it's really the preload on the spring from it's free length with the shock fully extended. Also keep in mind that no matter where the nut is adjusted, the spring rate and the wheel rate is the same with a given spring. Wheel rate does change slightly as the shock angle changes throughout suspension travel but I only calculate it at ride height.

WagonCrazy
08-01-2016, 06:23 AM
Just a quick note here to say that I haven't fallen off the earth, but have been preoccupied with a planned move across town from a tract house, to a house on 1/2 acre with room to build that nice garage I've always wanted. So I haven't done anything to the Nomad in months now, except stuff it (and everything else) into a small freestanding 2 car garage on the property and try and get moved into the house. I'll start a new post on all of that soon. Maybe by Sept I'll be back in the garage working on this Nomad build. Aargh....moving sucks. (after 24 years alot of chit needs to go...)

chevynut
08-01-2016, 06:56 AM
Congrats on the new house Paul. The problem is the new shop is going to take a lot of time too :eek:. Mine was supposed to be done in 3-6 months and it ended up taking around 2 1/2 years since I was plugging away at it myself after accepting an unplanned early retirement offer. It's still not really "done" since I haven't installed any cabinets and benches or air lines yet but some day I'll do that. At least it's usable. ;)

WagonCrazy
08-01-2016, 09:04 PM
At least it's usable.
That's the first goal...

WagonCrazy
08-01-2016, 09:11 PM
6195

Front of the house. Sits on a half acre, with the back quarter acre flat and buildable.

WagonCrazy
12-05-2016, 05:17 PM
Weather was nice last weekend, so I rolled the Nomad out of the garage for some sun and putzing around with it.

6638

6639

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
12-06-2016, 06:32 AM
Looking good!!! Is your avatar the planned look you are going for? I assume the C4 conversion forced the F-body alt to be moved up?

WagonCrazy
12-06-2016, 07:42 AM
Is your avatar the planned look you are going for?

Yes it is. That's not my Nomad...but the look I'm after.


I assume the C4 conversion forced the F-body alt to be moved up?

Yes. The alternator won't fit in the low position due to interference with the C4 crossmember. So I swapped its location with the power steering pump via a custom made bracket.

WagonCrazy
12-20-2016, 07:11 AM
Next up: ECM and wiring loom-thru-firewall. This has caused me to examine the ECM and existing wiring loom very closely to determine what is needed an what is not needed. And it appears the prior owner has removed all wires that were not needed. A huge source of info on ECM wiring for your modified cars can be found at http://lt1swap.com
The guy that put that site together has done a fantastic job of explaining alot. So much so that I have a fresh confidence in doing this ECM wiring job.

Watch for pics and wiring dilemas to come soon...

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
12-20-2016, 08:25 AM
There are wiring diagrams on ls1 tech that make it very easy to wire a first gen ls1. I have the one for ls1 a4 but there is one for the t56 also in their sticky section under conversions and hybrids. I used it with a stand alone fuse and relay box from PCI and it was very easy to make it run. I also have pictures of the factory connectors that are shown on the wiring diagrams makes it very easy to trace the needing wires out. the one I have is located in this thread along with just about anything you need to know about swapping an ls1.
I can email you the connector picture if you want it.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/312119-ls1-swap-faqs-4.html
Rocky

Rick_L
12-20-2016, 09:04 AM
wagoncrazy, I was unaware that your car had fresh paint on it. You've gotten to the fun part now!

Rick_L
12-20-2016, 09:09 AM
rocky do you have a link or a source for that fuse/relay center? A quick google didn't turn up anything for PCI.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
12-20-2016, 09:22 AM
rocky do you have a link or a source for that fuse/relay center? A quick google didn't turn up anything for PCI.
This is it see link
http://www.currentperformance.com/shop/stand-alone-fuserelay-module/

WagonCrazy
12-20-2016, 04:50 PM
wagoncrazy, I was unaware that your car had fresh paint on it. You've gotten to the fun part now!

Put yer glasses back on Rick. ;)That ain't fresh paint by any means. That's how I bought it. It's good enough to spray over again with a minimal amount of prep work though...

Bluegrass Trifive
12-20-2016, 05:44 PM
rocky do you have a link or a source for that fuse/relay center? A quick google didn't turn up anything for PCI. BP Automotive sells them as well as new custom harness. They make some really nice stuff.

Rick_L
12-20-2016, 06:52 PM
It's fresh enough for an Ebay ad. Looks ok in a photo.

But I understand.

Rick_L
12-20-2016, 06:59 PM
rocky thanks for the link. Bluegrass and rocky, what I really need is a source for a generic relay panel. I already have the relay/fuse center for my LS3 controller as well as the wiring harness. What I am going to need is a panel for a 3 relay half speed/full speed fan, as well as more relays for headlights and another item or 2. Not a lot of fuses needed. I have a candidate or 2, just looking for other options/sources.

NickP
12-20-2016, 07:24 PM
rocky thanks for the link. Bluegrass and rocky, what I really need is a source for a generic relay panel. I already have the relay/fuse center for my LS3 controller as well as the wiring harness. What I am going to need is a panel for a 3 relay half speed/full speed fan, as well as more relays for headlights and another item or 2. Not a lot of fuses needed. I have a candidate or 2, just looking for other options/sources.

The site provided has relays Rick - http://www.currentperformance.com/product-category/relays/

Bluegrass Trifive
12-20-2016, 07:49 PM
rocky thanks for the link. Bluegrass and rocky, what I really need is a source for a generic relay panel. I already have the relay/fuse center for my LS3 controller as well as the wiring harness. What I am going to need is a panel for a 3 relay half speed/full speed fan, as well as more relays for headlights and another item or 2. Not a lot of fuses needed. I have a candidate or 2, just looking for other options/sources. Take a look at this one. It maybe has more than you need? https://bp-automotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Premium-DIY-3-Watermark.jpg

BamaNomad
12-20-2016, 09:17 PM
BP automotive may not be in business any longer????

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/BP-Automotive/internet/BP-Automotive-BP-Automotive-And-Wiring-LS1-Harness-Rip-Off-Delay-Incompleted-work-Colum-1183341

WagonCrazy
12-21-2016, 06:42 AM
What I am going to need is a panel for a 3 relay half speed/full speed fan, as well as more relays for headlights and another item or 2.

Rick, do you plan to put this in the engine compartment somewhere (close to fans and headlights)? Do you need something with a cover over it all?

Bluegrass Trifive
12-21-2016, 06:54 AM
BP automotive may not be in business any longer????

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/BP-Automotive/internet/BP-Automotive-BP-Automotive-And-Wiring-LS1-Harness-Rip-Off-Delay-Incompleted-work-Colum-1183341 They've always done well for me and I know lots of folks with similar results as mine. They have Trifive experience and can easily work lengths and such to relocate items where you'd want them and if you want to take your engine to them they can do a custom fitting . I'm local so I've always worked directly with them. I do know they have recently moved to expand their operation. I've seen your referenced report before if I remember it was 3-4 years ago, as usual I'm sure there's two sides of the story. I don't mean to defend him as I don't know him well. I just know He does some really nice harness stuff!

Rick_L
12-21-2016, 07:50 AM
WagonCrazy, yes it will go in the engine compartment and yes a cover would be nice.

WagonCrazy
12-21-2016, 08:45 PM
Rick,
I've been trying to figure out a compact, somewhat water tight combination relay/fuse holder for the engine compartment in my Nomad. Something that i can wire up exactly as I want it...without using someones wrongly colored pigtails, etc.

I was in a auto wrecking yard several years ago, and came upon a nice 4 relay holder unit in the engine compartment of a Ford Aerostar van. I came home with 2 of them, intending to buy new connectors and rewire them. But i found out Ford uses a connector style that I can't seem to find. So I'm abandoning this strategy...

6681 6682 6683

After searching all over the internet for "automotive relay panel", I found one that seems to be priced right, has a cover, comes with all the connectors so I can wire it up myself, seems to hold 6 relays and 6 fuses. Found it at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F1PYJ1Y?psc=1

$15.88 and free shipping. I'm thinking about ordering it and seeing if it would work.
Here's a pic.
6684

What are you doing for engine compartment relays/fuses?

Rick_L
12-22-2016, 11:20 AM
WagonCrazy, that would seem to be the type of thing I need. Thanks for posting it.

WagonCrazy
12-22-2016, 02:32 PM
I ordered one last night. Says it takes 3 weeks to deliver. (must be coming from china via boat...) When it comes I'll take some pics and report my statisfaction with it.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
12-22-2016, 04:59 PM
I have used autoloc relays for last 26 years on my Rockytopper camper lift system with remote controller they have been pretty reliable to date. I have them on my cutlass A/C fan request? They are individual but pretty much weatherproof and have a mounting tab very easy to package your self and they sell a very nice single or double pig tail connector to gang two together that plugs in nice. I was a dealer haven't bought in years but I see summit carry's them.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfm-hornra?seid=srese2&cm_mmc=pla-msn-_-shopping-_-srese2-_-autoloc

chevynut
12-22-2016, 06:48 PM
Wow, $28 for a single relay with a connector? :eek: I can assure you Autoloc doesn't make those relays. They're probably made by some other company like Bosch or Tyco and are around $5 each. The connector can't be but a couple of bucks, and I'd rather terminate them myself than use a butt connector on a pigtail. You can do WAY better pricewise. I've bought a lot of stuff from Waytech and Del City for a lot less.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
12-23-2016, 07:56 AM
Lol ya that is a bit pricey but anyhow that was the only style I had found for mounting its very common among brands. But you got me searching and found this. Ever here of hella products?
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/hla-h84988001?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-hella&gclid=CPLVv43UitECFUMvgQod898AMg
they can be ganged together if needed.

Rick_L
12-23-2016, 09:41 AM
Hella has been in the offroad lighting business for many years. Products like you'd see above the cab on an offroad truck. Since many of these lights draw a lot of power, it makes sense for them to sell relays for their installation.

chevynut
12-23-2016, 09:43 AM
Lol ya that is a bit pricey but anyhow that was the only style I had found for mounting its very common among brands.

I've bought a lot of stuff from Waytek and DelCity and parts are cheap but name brands. I built my fuse block using their parts and my console is packed with their breakers and relays along with the Dakota Digital controllers. Now I have to replace my DD PAK-2700 fan controller with a PAK-2750 to avoid having to use another sender :eek:.

6688


Wish I'd looked for a weatherproof box for my fan relays....but I'll seal this one up. Have 12V and ground terminals in it. Sometimes on a fully painted car it's hard to find grounding points.

6689

WagonCrazy
12-23-2016, 09:47 AM
Laszlo,
What are you using for a grommet for where the loom passes thru the firewall/trans tunnel?

chevynut
12-23-2016, 09:55 AM
Laszlo,
What are you using for a grommet for where the loom passes thru the firewall/trans tunnel?

A grommet. :) :D

I moved the hole from the tranny tunnel area to the firewall. It was too hard to get wires down and around the bellhousing, and they're pretty well hidden by the intake manifold.

Here's how I originally did it....

6690

The penciled circle is where it is now....


6691

NickP
12-23-2016, 11:05 AM
I wonder if one or two AMP plugs would work (hidden of course)?

chevynut
12-23-2016, 11:27 AM
I wonder if one or two AMP plugs would work (hidden of course)?

This is what I'm using for the driver's fender electrical connections. There are 22 contacts and 3 wires go to the fan relays for power, and 2 others for fan control. The rest are for horns, lights, turn signals, hood release, brake pump, etc. I have around 30+ wires coming from the engine so it won't work there.

6692

6693

WagonCrazy
12-23-2016, 03:36 PM
So do you plan to have a disconnect at the firewall behind the intake manifold?
Or just a grommet to keep the water out?
This is what i just bought for mine....and your hole is almost dead on where I'm about to spot mine.

6694

NickP
12-23-2016, 03:44 PM
This is what I'm using for the driver's fender electrical connections. There are 22 contacts and 3 wires go to the fan relays for power, and 2 others for fan control. The rest are for horns, lights, turn signals, hood release, brake pump, etc. I have around 30+ wires coming from the engine so it won't work there.


6693

Good place for some nutserts.

chevynut
12-23-2016, 08:55 PM
So do you plan to have a disconnect at the firewall behind the intake manifold?
Or just a grommet to keep the water out?

Just a grommet. Too many wires to try to make a disconnect there and they really don't need to come out with the engine.


This is what i just bought for mine....and your hole is almost dead on where I'm about to spot mine.

That looks like a good solution. I think the hole I made in the firewall is 1.5" so I need a grommet that size, but I don't know how big the wire bundle is yet or what I'm using for a covering.

chevynut
12-23-2016, 08:57 PM
Good place for some nutserts.

Please explain :confused:. The studs sticking out of the firewall are part of the connector.

NickP
12-23-2016, 09:35 PM
Please explain :confused:. The studs sticking out of the firewall are part of the connector.

My apology, I assumed it was two 1/4" screws or bolts rather than an internal fastener to the connector. :!

WagonCrazy
04-09-2017, 06:47 AM
Not much progress to report on Ozzy at the moment. Just installed a set of Eddie Motorsport hood hinges.
7071 7072

And lately I've been working on a cardboard mockup of the center console, since it's time to get the wiring loom all figured out. No pics yet.

WagonCrazy
05-07-2017, 06:57 PM
Progress is slow... with lots of life's distractions. Managed to get a few hours out in the garage today to blow the dust off everything and figure out where I left off last time.

Wiring.

That's what I'm working on...locating most of the wiring, fuse panel, relays, etc. intended for the center console. I mocked one up in cardboard (very rough mockup...will not have square corners as you see in the pics) and I'm going to fabricate it out of 16 gauge sheetmetal. It will be covered in upholstery, and I'll have to come up with something different for the top/trim piece.

Anyhow, not much to report here. Just some pics of crappy workmanship. :(

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WagonCrazy
05-07-2017, 07:01 PM
I need to find the dimensions on a double din type stereo/screen. So I can see if it's deep enough as I've mocked it up. That will go right under the glove box.

And I need to get ahold of Vintage Air and order one of those alternate air box diffuser things that Laslo used. I'm not going to use their cheap plastic center dual vents. Will also mock up a cover that extends under the bottom of the dash left and right, and spot 4 billet style AC vents in there. And possibly one in the back of the center console, for the rear seat passengers.

Anyone have a part number on that?

chevynut
05-07-2017, 07:28 PM
Paul, Vintage Air has several choices for dash vents. I went with the oval ones from Clayton Machine, which VA also sells.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/cym-ac-902_ml.jpg
I'm pretty sure if you have a Gen IV Vintage Air evaporator you can just order the 4-hole vent that I used.

I have dimensions for MY Kenwood double DIN stereo, but I'm not sure they're all the same. If they are, I can get the dims for you. I integrated the Kenwood mount into my console. I think the depth is just barely enough for my stereo, but it fits.

7202

7203

I packed a lot of chit into my console....Holley ECM, 24 fuse panel, 6 re-settable breakers, engine timing controller, wideband O2, alarm system, fan controller, auto headlight/dome dimmer controller, auto-up/down window controllers, door lock controllers, and a dozen or so relays. No room for the Dakota Digital VHX controller so I have to mount it elsewhere.

The details on the console will drive you nuts. There's a lot going on there, and you want to make it look good because it's kind of a focal point of the interior, imo.

WagonCrazy
05-27-2017, 07:49 PM
Managed to get the front and rear bumpers rechromed and test fitted today.
Bought new (repop) bumper brackets and all new bolts too.
Here's the front...

7255 7256 7257 7258

WagonCrazy
05-27-2017, 07:51 PM
And the rear bumper...

7259 7260 7261 7262

WagonCrazy
05-27-2017, 07:52 PM
Adding chrome bumpers is definately "out of build sequence" but since I had them recrhromed and had no where to store them...I figured I'd at least bolt 'em up and see what they look like.

BamaNomad
05-27-2017, 08:33 PM
I know the problem WagonCrazy... :) Having 3 sets of Nomad rechromed bumpers which are NOT yet installed... :)

You can always call the early install ...an extended trial fit.... rather than temporary storage.. :)

BTW.. They look great. Did you have the original front sections welded up to make the 'one piece'? or is it a repro??

chevynut
05-27-2017, 08:35 PM
Looks great Paul! Who did the re-chroming? I'm probably going to have Ogden do my rear bumper.....was just informed that my A/C bracket has been though 5 layers of copper and should be done soon. :eek:

WagonCrazy
05-28-2017, 08:48 AM
Did you have the original front sections welded up to make the 'one piece'? or is it a repro??

Started with a factory one piece bumper. So that's 60 year old steel under that one.


Who did the re-chroming?

Same guy who did yours. I needed to get these done before he moves away to AZ.

BamaNomad
05-28-2017, 08:01 PM
Neato! :) I have seen VERY FEW one piece factory '57 bumpers...

WagonCrazy
05-31-2017, 07:46 AM
...was just informed that my A/C bracket has been though 5 layers of copper

I think that is a good thing Laszlo. More layers of base along with smooth finishing prior to nickel and then chrome equals a quality looking piece.

My bumpers both needed quite a bit of finessing prior to the final chrome dip/polishing as well.

MadMooks
05-31-2017, 06:24 PM
Looks good Paul, glad you were happy with them. 1 piece are a pain in the ass. 3s are a piece of cake .

WagonCrazy
10-05-2017, 10:09 PM
Still in wiring hell at the moment. There is so much wire, fuse panel, relays, circuit breakers, ECM, master shut off switch, and on and on in this center console area!

Tonight I'm baffled about why I cant seem to get the stock headlight switch to fit correctly.
Ive installed a milled aluminum dash insert (from Back Roads Fabrication-who bought Petes Fabrication who made these for years).
But when I go to install the chrome bezels on top of that dash insert, it puts the whole thing "out" too far for the pull switch to work properly.
The shaft in the switch handle is about 1/4 inch short.
I cant push it in far enough to shut off the lights. It stops at the parking light on position, and won't go in any further.

it's all because the dash insert adds bulk...and I need to figure out how to get a switch handle that is longer by about 1/4 inch.
The knob is pressed onto the shaft, so If I try to remove it I'm going to damage it I think (plastic).

Aargh.... I'm going to sleep on this one and think about it again in the morning.

7857

7858

55 Rescue Dog
10-06-2017, 06:37 AM
Looks like one way would be to section and weld another shaft on that one to make it 1/4in longer.

chevynut
10-06-2017, 08:46 AM
Paul, I don't know how thick that billet trim is but I have a hard time believing that 1/8" or so could cause the light switch not to work. Are you sure you have the switch properly seated into the dash from behind? I'm sure they've sold hundreds if not thousands of these trim pieces over the years. I know the temptation is to modify parts to make it work, but you shouldn't have to. Have you tried to call them to see if there's anything you're missing?

WagonCrazy
10-06-2017, 09:51 AM
Have you tried to call them to see if there's anything you're missing

Yes. I spoke with the folks at Back Roads Fab yesterday. The insert itself is only 1/8 inch thick but this is the curved piece on the left side of the instrument panel, so it doesn't sit completely, exactly flush with the surface of the dash. I have gently bent the insert enough to get it to sit as flat as possible, but it's still "out" by about 1/4 inch from the surface of the sheetmetal behind it right there where the light switch hole is. That's because the underlying sheetmetal is formed also.

They said the inserts often need to be "sanded" to fit in place exactly. And when used with the chrome knob trim pieces, those too need to be sanded.
Ive sanded the chrome trim piece enough (really, just removing the chrome plating from the backside enough to get it to sit exactly flush 360 degrees around the whole piece).
But I'm still "short".

The way to fix this is to use what I have and figure out a way to lengthen the rod (as RD suggested). But that's a super thin piece of metal (the rod part) and not sure how I'm going to lengthen it just yet.

As you know Laszlo (from your own recent mods), nothing fits exactly as planned.

The guy at Back Roads Fab asked me to call him again and maybe they could get me a new switch rod without the knob, so then I can maybe add a stock knob with a set screw or something...

chevynut
10-06-2017, 10:02 AM
Wow, a 1/4" gap between the insert and dash? Seems like it needs some more bending and/or sanding to make it sit flat against it. Something isn't right and imo it should not have a gap like that. That's where I'd be looking to fix it.

If you want to lengthen the rod it seems like it would be easy enough to do. Just weld on some steel rod and grind it to match.

WagonCrazy
10-30-2017, 06:55 AM
I have left the wiring stuff for the moment, and spent the day (yesterday) with the Nomad up on jackstands and dealing with a bunch of undercar things that still needed attention:
Replaced the 2 long bolts that hold the Dana 44 center unit to the frame (because the first bolts I assembled this with were too short)
Replaced the 4 long bolts that mount the dogbones to the frame (same reason, first round of bolts used to assemble were too short)
Ran the battery ground cable thru the wagon floor and mounted to the frame (just over the passenger rear tire, inside the frame).
Tightened every bolt up that I had left loose during fabrication over the last few years.
Mounted the fuel filler tubes/hoses to fuel tank.
Installed all the body to frame bolts/rubber cushions. (pain in the arse because I had to nudge the body to get it all to align properly)

Next up:
Continue finishing up the interior wiring
Continue finishing up with the gauge/dash wiring and assembly
Continue finishing up the engine bay wiring stuff (remote relays and fuse panel)
Figure out what to do for an exhaust system and get it installed so I can FIRE THIS THING UP. :-)

Hearing the cackle of Laszlo's engine startup motivated me to get 'er done.

BamaNomad
10-30-2017, 07:01 AM
Keep it going strong, wagon crazy! :) We need to show up with black (yours) and red (mine) '57 Nomads in the not too distant future.. :)

chevynut
10-30-2017, 09:02 AM
Keep at it Paul, you'll get there! Seems like a never-ending list of details to work on.

Part of the reason I worked so hard to fire up the 502 was motivational. There's a ton of little details on these cars after you think you're almost done with something. I spent two weeks finishing up stuff just so I could fire the engine and that was a big accomplishment and a milestone for me. I am 99.9% done with everything on the chassis and only have a few small things to do before I can drop the body on it. Sure don't want to be working under this thing. :)

TOXIC AVENGER
10-30-2017, 02:30 PM
This is what I'm using for the driver's fender electrical connections. There are 22 contacts and 3 wires go to the fan relays for power, and 2 others for fan control. The rest are for horns, lights, turn signals, hood release, brake pump, etc. I have around 30+ wires coming from the engine so it won't work there.

6692


6693



any chance you would share where you get the connector from ? looks like something I could use in my build, thanks

chevynut
10-30-2017, 08:53 PM
any chance you would share where you get the connector from ? looks like something I could use in my build, thanks

It's a Weatherpak connector and you can get it from AAW and other places. I don't know who's the cheapest but here's some:

https://www.delcity.net/store/Weather-Pack-22!Way-Bulkhead-Connector/p_810119.h_810120.r_IF1003?mkwid=swXjCkpyJ&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9vPBRCQARIsABAIQYc4KZxaVXqZp1eZsKRP 0m3HPxjPb-FTe_b5ReB8I0gDHA9ELoGTFnUaAoTaEALw_wcB

https://jet.com/product/detail/54912892597a4d5f9f7ee37561098166?jcmp=pla:ggl:nj_d ur_gen_automotive_parts_accessories_a2:automotive_ parts_accessories_automotive_replacement_parts_ele ctrical_components_a2:na:PLA_785913093_44722404887 _aud-320230129885:pla-307243676538_c:na:na:na:2PLA15&code=PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=785913093&is_retargeting=true&clickid=a1466905-63aa-45ca-b253-1f3879471222&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9vPBRCQARIsABAIQYf-vAK93VNvbPyqtPejBeQRt4oV4TWMI6Rkfl83Ly_sWZsqBSROf8 0aAk_6EALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/Weather-Pack-Bulkhead-22-pin-16-14/dp/B005O0V5JQ

TOXIC AVENGER
10-30-2017, 10:50 PM
It's a Weatherpak connector and you can get it from AAW and other places. I don't know who's the cheapest but here's some:

https://www.delcity.net/store/Weather-Pack-22!Way-Bulkhead-Connector/p_810119.h_810120.r_IF1003?mkwid=swXjCkpyJ&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9vPBRCQARIsABAIQYc4KZxaVXqZp1eZsKRP 0m3HPxjPb-FTe_b5ReB8I0gDHA9ELoGTFnUaAoTaEALw_wcB

https://jet.com/product/detail/54912892597a4d5f9f7ee37561098166?jcmp=pla:ggl:nj_d ur_gen_automotive_parts_accessories_a2:automotive_ parts_accessories_automotive_replacement_parts_ele ctrical_components_a2:na:PLA_785913093_44722404887 _aud-320230129885:pla-307243676538_c:na:na:na:2PLA15&code=PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=785913093&is_retargeting=true&clickid=a1466905-63aa-45ca-b253-1f3879471222&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9vPBRCQARIsABAIQYf-vAK93VNvbPyqtPejBeQRt4oV4TWMI6Rkfl83Ly_sWZsqBSROf8 0aAk_6EALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/Weather-Pack-Bulkhead-22-pin-16-14/dp/B005O0V5JQ

thanks for the info....

WagonCrazy
03-05-2018, 06:58 AM
My gawd, it's been months since I posted any progress. :(

It's been slow, but moving forward.

Have most of the front end and center console wiring done now, and this weekend I fabbed up a set of tire stands so that I could get the wagon up high enough off the ground in a "loaded" position to start fabbing up the exhaust system.

$75 in steel and a few hours later, I made these out of 3/16". I would have gone thicker to 1/4 inch, but my little Lincoln 110v welder struggles at even 3/16, so I chose to go lighter. They seem stout enough though.

8417

8418

Started to fabricate the exhaust yesterday, and will keep at it this week.

WagonCrazy
03-07-2018, 06:07 PM
The exhaust system is fabbed, and just tacked together for now. But I used the stainless clamps to join sections, making it easier to remove and weld up the joints permanently when I get to that point. For now, it's in (except for the hangers and chrome tips not welded in just yet).

8430

8431

8432

8433

8434

chevynut
03-07-2018, 06:41 PM
Looking good Paul! Have you run the engine yet?

BamaNomad
03-07-2018, 09:17 PM
Congratulations Paul... Another step forward is one fewer to go to completion!~ Your wiring if coming along and now so is the exhaust! Great news.. :) (I wish mine were done).

WagonCrazy
03-08-2018, 05:26 AM
Looking good Paul! Have you run the engine yet?

Nope. But inching ever closer to the day when I can fire it up. Still alot to do to get there, but hey...forward progress is forward progress.

Finish welding up the exhaust system.
Finish wiring underdash and to the rear taillights.
Mount the steering column back up and tighten up everything.
Put fluids in the power steering and hydroboost lines.
Fill the radiator and check for leaks.
Power up the battery and doublecheck circuits acting properly (ie no melting wires or blown fuses).
Tighten up all fittings in the fuel lines from tank to engine... then fill the tank with a few gallons of fuel and power up the pump and check for leaks and adequate pressure at the fuel rails.
Fire this bad boy up and see if the ECM will run it on first try...

hurddawg
03-08-2018, 10:13 AM
I'm Jealous! Exhaust looks great!

567chevys
03-08-2018, 12:19 PM
I'm Jealous! Exhaust looks great!

X 2

I like it , great Job . I need to get busy on my projects

Sid

WagonCrazy
03-08-2018, 08:07 PM
I spent $526 on all the aluminized steel pipe, bends, magnaflow 50 series mufflers, v-band clamps, exhaust tips, hangers, etc. And with a cut off wheel, sharpie, measuring tape, and 110v welder, I fabbed them up in about 3 days on and off. But what I better mention is more than 100 trips up and down off the creeper on my back to get each piece in place correctly, before moving onto the next piece. Meticulous work man. Tiring... but now I just need to go back under there and spot where each of the 4 hangers go, then disassemble it all and weld everything up tight. Then reinstall. Not going to jet hot coat it for now...will wait till I get it running a bit and then do that when I tear the whole car apart again for final prep, paint, polishing, etc.

Doing this twice. Because I'm a fool at times... :cry:

WagonCrazy
05-18-2018, 05:21 PM
Quick update.
Exhaust system is done.
90% of wiring is done. A few non critical circuits still to do, but not going to worry about them at this point (power windows, door locks, dome lights, etc).

The battery is all plugged in, and I'm starting to check the circuits for issues. I have one in the headlight switch system...when I pull it one notch out (park lights) it pops the circuit breaker. So I need to isolate that and figure out what I've grounded by accident when wiring it all up...

Once I get beyond that, it's fluild filling time and then we can see if this engine runs. I did bump the starter a few times via the ignition key, and it's ready to go!

TrifiveRichard
05-18-2018, 05:41 PM
It’ll be running soon! It’d be great to see a video of it running at that time.

chevynut
05-18-2018, 05:59 PM
I felt that excitement last October Paul. It was especially exciting since I tore the engine completely down and put it back together. :)

Your parking light issue shouldn't be to hard to track down. Sounds like you have a good handle on it.

Keep at it!

hurddawg
05-18-2018, 07:56 PM
Must be really exciting. I still have a long way to go but Can’t wait to get where you are at. I’m sure you’ll get that short figured out in no time!

WagonCrazy
05-18-2018, 08:00 PM
Going after it this weekend. Will post when I figure it out and for sure...a video of the startup (when that happens). :p

56Safari
05-19-2018, 10:30 AM
Looking great man, can't wait to see it running and hear it.

WagonCrazy
05-21-2018, 06:56 AM
Update:
Figured out why I was breaking headlight fuses...because i had a taillight pigtail socket that wasn't properly seated into the housing...and was grounding one of the contact ends to the housing. (oops).
Next issue to fix:
Headlights are on when (new) headlight switch is pulled out to the first position. (supposed to be running lights only in that first position).
When pulling all the way out, the headlights stay on (as they should).

Trying to figure out why headlights are coming on (at all) in that first position...

chevynut
05-30-2018, 08:43 PM
Going after it this weekend. Will post when I figure it out and for sure...a video of the startup (when that happens). :p

Almost two weeks later.....does it run? :) :) :)

WagonCrazy
06-01-2018, 09:35 PM
Almost two weeks later.....does it run?

Nope. For a dozen reasons, I haven't touched the car since that last post. Starting the underground/trenching work on the new garage and the Gas Co screwed me up with scheduling a service line install, then not showing up, only to find out they really didnt schedule it, so I'm still a week and a half out on that. That's the very first thing that has to happen to build the garage, because the existing 70 year old line runs thru the middle of where this garage goes. So that meant moving everything I own off the back 1/4 acre onto my long driveway, so we can dig ditches, move and compact dirt, etc. Too much to try to explain here, but maybe I'll start a new post on the build in chit chat...

WagonCrazy
07-17-2018, 05:42 AM
I think I've turned the corner on wiring...
Fixed a few gremlins that I had to troubleshoot lately, but all circuits seem to test out OK now, and I'm so ready to move "out of wiring jail" and into the next phase: putting fluids in and attempting to start this LS1 engine up!
Here's some wiring progress pics. What a cluster>>>>

8964

8965

8966

8967

BamaNomad
07-17-2018, 06:25 AM
Congrats WC! I know that's a milestone that feels good to be behind you!

I haven't yet started wiring on mine, but getting closer to that phase; I am told the person redoing my engine/trans/computer rework is finished, although my car is not yet ready to install it and test it...

chevynut
07-17-2018, 06:41 AM
Looks good Paul! Keep plugging away and you'll get there. You'll be driving it before you know it. ;)

hurddawg
07-18-2018, 06:06 PM
Wow!

Lots of time put in for sure. Not excited to do it on my own car, but I'm a ways off.

chevynut
07-18-2018, 07:18 PM
I'm actually excited to get to electrical stuff. I think it's fun, and you get "instant gratification" when you hook something up and it works! Not to mention it's close to the end of the build! :)

WagonCrazy
08-03-2018, 07:06 AM
Update. Just received the polished stainless door strikers from MadMooks. These are CNC machined and assembled to precision. More bling in the places you see it often...

9078

9079

WagonCrazy
09-02-2018, 02:01 PM
First try at start up...


https://youtu.be/T59dWii4fsg

Rick_L
09-02-2018, 02:16 PM
First time? Wow. WHAHOO is right! :cool:

chevynut
09-02-2018, 03:32 PM
Congrats Paul!!....I know the feeling. Mine fired right off too. I was even told I "cheated" and fired it before I had people over to watch it start for the first time. ;)

What's next?

hurddawg
09-02-2018, 09:41 PM
Awesome! Good job Paul!

WagonCrazy
09-02-2018, 10:49 PM
What's next is to figure out why it won't start again...

After 3 or 4 times of starting it up and letting it idle for a minute or so (it fired right up each time), the 5th time it just cranks but doesn't fire.

Have verified 50# of fuel pressure at the fuel bar, and have checked all fuses inside. Nothing obvious...

Need to pull a plug and do the spark test to see if it's throwing spark (I suspect its not for some reason) and then get into some more serious diagnosis. I don't have a ODB2 reader yet, so I may get one now to see what (if any)engine codes are being thrown.

WagonCrazy
09-05-2018, 06:49 AM
Got an OBDII reader hooked into it last night, and it hasn't thrown any codes...

Gonna check to see if any spark at the plugs while cranking...then work backwards from there.

Rick_L
09-05-2018, 08:22 AM
Have you disabled the VATS (security system)? I thought VATS would only allow it to run a few seconds, but I suppose that could vary.

WagonCrazy
09-05-2018, 07:22 PM
Have you disabled the VATS (security system)? I thought VATS would only allow it to run a few seconds, but I suppose that could vary.

the guy I sent it to for reflashing was supposed to disable the VATS. I'll need to check and see if that's stopping everything. It started 4 times, each time I let it idle longer. The last time was over a minute. Then #5...just cranks and cranks and no fire. VATS may very well be what's going on ...

WagonCrazy
09-09-2018, 09:25 PM
Update: Found a chaffed wire going to the Crankshaft Position Sensor. The 12 volt to the sensor. Short story: Operator error when installing it...was too short and it rubbed against a sharp edge coming thru the firewall and around the passenger head. it's the light green wire in the pic below. Sheesh...what was I thinking!

I lengthened it a bit, fixed the chaff, wrapped the wires in loom, and it fired right up. But I had no time to move onto other stuff to check out, so that's where it stands.

When all else fails, go for simple solution with wiring gremlins.

9178

9179

BamaNomad
09-10-2018, 04:48 AM
Yep, you need to have a talk with that 'installer'! :) But doesn't it feel GOOD when you find the reason for a problem?

hurddawg
09-10-2018, 07:02 AM
Good thing it happened now and not on the road!

55 Tony
09-10-2018, 10:48 AM
I recently replaced the hydroboost on my work van. 2 weeks later it kept blowing fuses for the wipers. I pinched a couple wires between it and the firewall and it took that long till it shorted out. I was lucky also, it happened at home!

MadMooks
10-13-2018, 06:17 AM
Congrats on the start up Paul

WagonCrazy
10-13-2018, 07:31 AM
Thanks MadMooks. I haven't had much time to spend on the Nomad. Been building a new garage on the back of the lot, and have about another 3 to 4 weeks to get thru final inspection, then I can move everything (including the Nomad) into it and get a lift and start working on it more.

Check that progress in the garages and workshops forum.

edwardw
10-13-2018, 11:27 PM
This is some nice startup. Really liked the pics and the way how you are doing all the car stuff in so much detail.

WagonCrazy
10-17-2018, 02:26 PM
Thanks edwardw What are you working on? Start a thread and post some pics!

WagonCrazy
12-13-2018, 07:51 PM
Back at this thing. Moved the Nomad into the new garage tonight and pulled the leaky power steering tank-to-return line apart to figure out why it won't seal when tightened.
The tank has a welded on AN fitting:
9382

And the hose fitting is supposedly an AN fitting. But I'm doubting that because no amount of tightening seems to get this to seal. It just leaks out all the fluid under no pressure...
Can any of you tell by looking at this fitting if its NOT an AN fitting?
9383

9384

chevynut
12-13-2018, 07:54 PM
AN fittings have a 37 degree flare. SAE fittings have a 45 degree flare. Can you eyeball the bung and see if it's 45 degrees? Maybe put a square on it with a 45 degree edge if you have one. If it's AN maybe the bung is distorted or something.

WagonCrazy
12-13-2018, 08:28 PM
I just measured the bung, and it's 37 degrees..so it's an AN bung.
I have to figure out which Fragola fitting this is...as maybe it's not AN 37 degree mating surface?
That doesnt seem possible...as most of their fittings are AN.

But this sucker doesnt seal. It just leaks out slowly, no matter how much I tighten it.

Rick_L
12-14-2018, 06:10 AM
I see a witness mark (or something) on the sealing surface in your first photo. Looks like you maybe have contact only on the outside of the sealing surface, not all the way across. This would be consistent with the welded fitting being 45° and the mating fitting being 37°. Thing is, a 45° male weld bung would be an unusual part to source if you wanted one.

There are sealing washers and "seat saver" tools sold for fixing problems like this. Worst case, cut the fitting off the tank and weld another on.

chevynut
12-14-2018, 06:33 AM
Do you have another AN hose end of the same size you can try to see if it seals? Maybe the problem is the hose end, not the bung. It also looks to me like there's a line around the bung seat indicating something doesn't fit right.

WagonCrazy
12-14-2018, 06:45 AM
You guys are both right. There is a seating issue with the fitting. I'm not convinced this fitting is truly an AN flare. So I've ordered another one that IS supposed to be AN flared, and we'll see what happens.
I hope I havent ruined the sealing surface of this weld on AN fitting...

asbicca
12-14-2018, 05:22 PM
You can buy thin soft copper or aluminum 37 degree sealing washer that should solve your problem. I got mine from an aircraft surplus supplier.

bigblock
12-15-2018, 07:59 AM
That hose end looks like pipe swivel thread.

Rick_L
12-15-2018, 10:48 AM
Good eye, bigblock, the rest of us missed that. Went back and looked and it's now pretty obvious to me. I think a sealing washer would fix any damage on the weld on bung after getting a proper fitting for the hose.

chevynut
12-15-2018, 12:35 PM
I disagree. A 1/4" FPT won't fit over an AN6 fitting, and a 3/8" FPT slides right over it. I just tried it and thread sizes aren't even close. That's not a FPT hose end, imo.

chevynut
12-15-2018, 12:39 PM
I disagree. A 1/4" FPT won't fit over an AN6 fitting, and a 3/8" FPT slides right over it. I just tried it and thread sizes aren't even close. That's not a FPT hose end, imo. Apparently the threads work fine but something is wrong with one of the sealing surfaces.