Floor shift installation

Have a question...... For my '57 Chevy sedan, I have decided to swap in a stronger Borg Warner T-85 3-speed transmission with the R-11 overdrive (came out of a '66 Ford truck). Floor shifts for these particular transmissions are hard to find now of days. So will need to get parts together and make my own mounting bracket for shifter. T-10 shift levers for side cover look like they will fit. May possibly need to shorten and rethread shifter rods depending on where new bracket positions shifter unit.

My question is really about which shifter mechanism to use. In the past, I have used a Hurst Synchro-Lock 3-speed shifter and I liked it. Others available used or NOS (all Hurst) include the Synchro-Lock, the Master Craft, the Indy and some used 'original OEM' types made by Hurst having no other designation as to type and in many cases, no adjustable stop bolts and jam nuts.

If using one of these 3-speed shifters, is the Synchro Lock the best unit to go with?

Also...... If I cannot locate a good 3-speed shifter unit...... Is there any reason why I cannot use a Hurst Competition Plus 4-speed shifter and only use the 2 levers and rods on the H-pattern portion (leaving the 'reverse' lever and rod of the 4-speed shifter unused)?

Thanks,

Harry

Harry, I have a used (but good) Hurst shifter for a 3 speed which was in my '55 Nomad when I purchased it in 1974. I sold the trans a year or so ago, but still have the shifter and linkage. I'm not sure it will work with an OD trans.. but it might? I can send pictures of if you think you might be interested in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BamaNomad

Harry, I have a used (but good) Hurst shifter for a 3 speed which was in my '55 Nomad when I purchased it in 1974. I sold the trans a year or so ago, but still have the shifter and linkage. I'm not sure it will work with an OD trans.. but it might? I can send pictures of if you think you might be interested in it.

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Bama, could you post on this thread? If Harry cant use, I have a friend putting a three speed in his 55 and is looking for a shifter. He might be interested if Harry passes and you still wish to sell.

Scorp

I believe the Hurst shifter for an original 3 speed mounts with the bolts that hold the extension housing to the main case. If the main case on the T85 is longer than the stock 3 speed main case, then the shifter is going to interfere with the bench seat, just as it does with a generic shifter on a 4 speed. Also the mounting bracket may not fit a T85. The solenoid can for the overdrive may also interfere.

You could probably adapt a 4 speed shifter and replace the reverse arm in the shifter body with a blank plate of the same thickness. You'd still have to find a way to mount it.

I thought that most T85 transmissions were used in Fords which have a different bolt pattern than a GM transmission. This would require a Lakewood housing with a Ford bolt pattern or something similar to be able to bolt the transmission to the bellhousing.

Thanks, Bama! Much appreciated. Can you PM me with particulars? What brand and type shifter is it? I'm looking for a Hurst Synchro Lock if I can find one. Will probably need to make my own bracket to hold shifter mechanism to transmission. These T-85 transmissions are quite a bit different than the "55-'57 Chevy Saginaw with 4-bolt side cover. This is what I am starting with......

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...2-jpg.4015750/

The T-85 3-speed was what Borg Warner modified to create the T-10 4-speed. That's why the 9-bolt side covers of both the T-85 and T-10 are nearly identical.

I swapped one of these transmissions into a '55 Chevy I was building back in '72. They are about 6 inches longer than the '55-'57 Chevy transmission. Was fortunate and found a Hurst Synchro Lock shifter for an early '60s Ford Galaxie with T-85 OD transmission back then. But so far, have not found one that will just bolt on this time 'round. So will need to improvise a bit.

Thanks,

Harry

Harry, After your more thorough explanation of what you're doing, I doubt seriously if this shifter would work, but I can post a few photos later today. I think it's a 'Hurst Mystery Shifter'? which works fine for the original 3 speeds used in '55-57. I'll go take some photos and update this post... (and here they are). The shifter is dirty from laying in my shop for 40 yrs, attached to the '55 3sp trans until last year, and the shifter handle would need to be rechromed or replaced to be NICE...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick_L

I believe the Hurst shifter for an original 3 speed mounts with the bolts that hold the extension housing to the main case. If the main case on the T85 is longer than the stock 3 speed main case, then the shifter is going to interfere with the bench seat, just as it does with a generic shifter on a 4 speed. Also the mounting bracket may not fit a T85. The solenoid can for the overdrive may also interfere.

You could probably adapt a 4 speed shifter and replace the reverse arm in the shifter body with a blank plate of the same thickness. You'd still have to find a way to mount it.

I thought that most T85 transmissions were used in Fords which have a different bolt pattern than a GM transmission. This would require a Lakewood housing with a Ford bolt pattern or something similar to be able to bolt the transmission to the bellhousing.

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Yes, that's true, Rick. If I cannot find a shifter for a T-85 with overdrive, I'll have to make my own bracket to hold the shifter mechanism to the gear case, using the bolts that hold the mid plate and OD tailhousing to the gear case to secure the plate.

The Borg Warner T-85 transmission was used wherever a heavy duty 3-speed tranny was required from the mid-'50s through the early '70s. '56 Packards and Studebaker Avantis and Fords offered them with overdrive. Most had the same R-10 3-pinion OD planetary gear as was fitted to '55- '64 Chevy OD transmissions. Ford trucks and big block passenger cars with OD got the stronger R-11 4-pinion OD planetary gear, though. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, MOPAR, Jeep and others used the T-85 as well, but without OD as an option. My '60 Plymouth ex-Sheriff's car had a column shifted T-85 tranny behind the 413 police interceptor engine.

As you noted, the Ford gear case has a different bolt pattern than a Chevy where it bolts to the bellhousing. Fords also have a longer input shaft of larger diameter and a correspondingly longer and larger diameter front bearing retainer. And to complicate matters, Ford trucks fitted with these transmissions had 2 different diameter input shafts and 2 different shaft lengths (and corresponding bellhousing depths).

When I did this swap back in '72, I used a T-85 overdrive transmission from a '62 Ford Galaxie passenger car with the 390 engine. Adapted it to my Chevy bellhousing by using the gear case, input shaft and front bearing retainer from a '60 Pontiac non-OD T-85 to fit it to my Chevy bellhousing. As luck would have it, both passenger car input shafts had 19 tooth gears and it was a bolt-in once I drilled a hole in the back of the Pontiac gear case. This was either for a reverse lockout shaft or to allow lubricant to flow from gear case to OD unit (cannot remember which it was now, its been so many years).

I actually located another T-85 Pontiac gear case and input shaft a few weeks ago (front bearing retainer was missing and I was going to see if an early GM T-10 retainer would interchange)......

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/crQAA...R3/s-l1600.jpg

Cannot go that route this time, though. The T-85 I have now is from a truck and it has different gearing with a 20 tooth gear on the input shaft. So will need to have an adapter plate machined to allow me to bolt the Ford gear case to my Chevy bellhousing. Fortunately, the Ford has a longer input shaft than GM so thickness of adapter plate will be determined by that. Will need to use Ford clutch disc matching Ford input shaft diameter and spline count, have a bronze pilot bushing machined with Chevy OD and Ford ID and work out differences in clutch release bearing and release fork dimensions this time.

When I did this swap in '72, I replaced the bench seat with bucket seats from a '64 T-bird, so having the shifter farther to the rear wasn't an issue. Would like to keep my bench seat this time 'round, though.

Regarding the T-85 shifter...... I have located a used shifter from a '62 MOPAR 413 Max Wedge car. These cars used the T-85 3-speed until MOPAR had their A-833 4-speeds available as an option. The Max Wedge T-85 3-speed is an odd animal, though. It has a shifter mounting pad on the tailhousing same as a 4-speed. So if I went with that shifter on my Ford T-85 OD transmission, I would still need to build a mounting bracket for the shifter.

Best regards,

Harry

Thanks for posting pics of your shifter, Bama. Much appreciated. I could use the shifter mechanism and I could use the bracket as a starting point and cut/weld/drill until it fits my transmission.

Let's give scorpion's friend first dibs though, as it would bolt right onto his Chevy transmission. If he doesn't take it, let me know and I may be able to make it work on my T-85 OD transmission.

Best regards,

Harry

Harry-

I will see if he has any interest. and post back ASAP. Thats very nice of you.

Bama, idea on cost? If so PM me and I will pass along to him and try and connect you guys up.

Scorp

http://speedtalk.com/forum/images/sm...eusa_dance.gif

Bama, you have a pm.

Scorp

Update: Regarding fitting the Borg Warner T-85 N 3-speed with R-11 overdrive from '66 Ford truck to my '57 Chevy bellhousing...... I have come up with a Plan A and a Plan B.

Plan A......

I managed to score an empty '62 Pontiac T-85 gear case from a guy on e-Bay...... The one in the foreground in this pic......

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nHQAA...R9/s-l1600.jpg

The Pontiac T-85 (non-OD version) was used in the early '60s Super Duty cars when the T-10 4-speed wasn't ordered as an option. Like the Ford passenger car T-85s with OD of those years, the Pontiac passenger car T-85 (non-OD) input shaft had 19 teeth. So you could substitute the Pontiac gear case, input shaft and front bearing retainer when rebuilding the Ford T-85 OD tranny and it would bolt right up to a GM bellhousing (I did this back in '72 - '73...... Worked great, only had to drill 1 hole in rear of non-OD gear case).

Unfortunately, the T-85 Ford truck version I have this time 'round has different gear ratios with a lower 1st gear and a 20-tooth input shaft. (And I was unable to locate the matching Pontiac T-85 front bearing retainer this time). So I picked up a NOS 20-tooth input shaft and bearing retainer for an early GM T-10 4-speed and will see if they will work. Won't know for sure until I have the Ford T-85 OD tranny apart and can measure and eyeball the Ford truck T-85 and GM T-10 input shafts and front bearing retainers side by side.

Plan B......

If GM T-10 input shaft and front bearing retainer won't interchange with Ford truck T-85 pieces...... Will retain Ford input shaft and take Ford front bearing retainer to a good machine shop and have flange and neck of bearing retainer turned down to GM dimensions. In this case, the Ford truck T-85 has a 1-1/16" dia. 10-spline input shaft (takes same clutch disc as Ford top-loader) and is actually a bit shorter than a GM input shaft. So will need to have a machine shop make a bronze pilot bushing having GM OD and Ford ID and make it longer than standard pilot bushing to make up for shorter Ford input shaft. If I have to go this route, will need to trial fit GM bellhousing and flywheel to my engine along with an old Ford clutch disc and the modified Ford T-85 to measure just how long pilot bearing needs to be and verify full engagement of clutch disc on input shaft splines.

I'll let you know how it works out. Am helping youngest son with engine for his Camaro this Winter and should be back on T-85 transmission project this Spring.

Happy Motoring,

Harry

P.S. >>> For anyone wanting to do this conversion...... If you can locate a Lakewood scattershield that will fit a Ford toploader tranny behind your engine, that should work...... If you have the '65 - '71 Ford T-85 N truck transmission as I do. In addition to the shorter, smaller diameter input shaft I have...... there were at least 2 longer input shafts and 2 different (larger) diameter input shafts used in the Ford T-85 transmissions over the years.