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Thread: One Piece Nomad Liftgate / Tailgate

  1. #11
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    I think that making the Nomad liftgate/tailgate one piece with hinges at the top and keeping some style to it is darn near impossible.
    Rick, I tend to disagree. I don't think it would be that difficult to do, and it's been done before. I'm pretty sure I could do it if I wanted to. Heck, Chevy did it with the delivery!

    I think a roll-down window would be a lot harder to do.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


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  2. #12
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    What I'm talking about is not having to rely on an original pot metal or brass liftgate as a structural member. A delivery liftgate is way different. All steel and has some structural shape.

    If you're confident, get going and post some photos.

  3. #13
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    Onepiece Liftgate - Nomad

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_L View Post
    What I'm talking about is not having to rely on an original pot metal or brass liftgate as a structural member. A delivery liftgate is way different. All steel and has some structural shape.

    If you're confident, get going and post some photos.
    AWWWWWWWW SHHHHHHHHHHHUCKY DUCKY!!

    You both beat me to posting a new post here! (cool!).

    I have had many thoughts marinating in the back of my mind on different ways to go about making this onepiece liftgate. I have come to realize that I want to retain my original tailgate and original liftgate for several reasons. Simply put, I can reduce the amount of custom fabrication needed for the conversion and I don’t have to scrap my shiny investment in potmetal (my liftgate straightened and restored by madmook). Okay, after looking over the pics of other nomads with onepiece liftgates and thinking over particular concerns I have for each, this is what I am considering to attempt. I am thinking of welding together a onepiece liftgate frame for the stock potmetal liftgate and stock tailgate to mount onto. This onepiece frame will basically be made from 7 different pieces that would require welding (two of the seven pieces will be my nomad’s stock liftgate hinges). This one piece frame will also require removal of some material from the stock potmetal liftgate (I cringe as I type that) and also the long horizontal lower interior molding that mounts to the liftgate.

    material removed 1.jpg

    I am reluctant to take apart my Nomad (for a lengthy job such as this one) because when ever I do, I tend to get busy and then my Nomad just sits disassembled for months because it is apart and I am unable to drive it as well. All sorts of things have happened to other trifives I have owned in the past. I have had family members kids wanting to play in there, cat decides to urinate on my interior, rats make it their home, spider webs everwhere,….you get the idea). Currently I find myself only having time to do simple 1-day remove and replace work days on the Nomad when I do work on it (or I just wash and polish). Other than that, I’d rather be driving it when I do get time to enjoy my Nomad.

    So…if anyone has laying around a spare tailgate and liftgate….what I need is:
    The weight of a fully assembled Nomad tailgate (minus hinges if possible - if you can wiegh a liftgate, just let me know how much it is assembled/disassembled)
    The weight of a fully assembled Nomad liftgate (minus liftgate gas struts or stock latching supports if possible-again, just let me know how much together it is)

    I found various gas spring rate calculator's online and knowing the total weight of the stock liftgate and tailgate will be needed in determining the pressure rating the onepiece liftgate gas struts will require.

    Another consideration…
    How do I determine if the stock liftgate hinges were heat treated to strengthen them? Is it possible to weld on heat treated materials and also retain their strengthened properties? I don’t want to go through all the effort of fabricating the seven pieces only to have the liftgate begin showing stress cracks at some point. That would really upset me. I have this concern because someone had commented that they had seen stress cracks on the onepiece liftgate for a blue Nomad turned Sedan Delivery (it had a surfboard on the roof). I am aware that this liftgate is going to be heavy (I'm guessing 80 to 100 lbs) and I want to be sure I design a onepiece liftgate frame that will handle the load it will have to operate under.

    I am also strongly considering to relocate the liftgate supports to mount in a similar fashion as they do on a 2007 Chyseler Town and Country.

    Liftgate Strut Relocation Proposal.jpg

    I am considering mounting the bottom of the gas strut where the steel cable mounts on the tailgate, and the top portion of the gas strut will mount near the roof of the body of the Nomad.

    Liftgate Strut Relocation Proposal 2.jpg

    I am leary using my gas supports in their current stock location for the onepiece liftgate. The only way I would continue to use them is if I could determine that I can safely do so without any future issue of twisting, tweaking, or excess stress to the onepiece frame. I did find some sites that give formulas to calculate spring rates; however, I need to get all the measurements and the total weight of the one piece liftgate to begin calculating.

    Below are links to sites I have found so far:

    http://www.springmasters.nl/calculations.html
    http://www.engineeringexchange.com/f...n-calculations
    Last edited by Michaelmotorcycle; 12-26-2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Forgot to add some other pictures

  4. #14
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    Okay, so I'm gonna digress a little on the idea I have so far on the frame. In the picture below, the red portion will be a metal rod that will handle the stress that was applied the stock liftgate by the torsion rod springs.

    Onepiece Liftgate Frame 1.jpg

    Even though the torsion rod springs are removed from my Nomad, I plan to have the liftgate opened for several hours when at car shows and drive in theatres. So I need to be sure that the top portion does not twist. When I purchased my restored and straightened liftgate from madmook, he said not to leave the liftgate open for long periods of time because it is still potmetal and will twist again. The red rod I have outlined will be three pieces - two of which will be the stock Nomad liftgate hinges. The side supports of the liftgate will have to be fabricated from angle iron and then welded to the top red rod that is made of three pieces. The fabricated side supports will need to extend into the tailgate. I am thinking of mounting the tailgate to the side supports by utilizing the bolts that mount the cable and the latch. I am uncertain if I should thread the extended side support and remove the two or three of welded in place nuts in the same row, or if I should leave the nuts and install extra long bolts and just slide the extended side support onto the threads sticking out of the nuts, and then tighten down the extended side bracket with nylon lock nuts.

  5. #15
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    OK, I refined my idea a little more as my plan to weld on my stock liftgate hinges has not been sitting well with me. I noticed that Madmook made some and they are stainless (I had been thinking of using stainless material for the frame I want to build). If I got a set of Madmook's hinges (getting them without being welded together would actually be what I prefer since I am going to be welding my frame to them), then I could save myself a step in having to fabricate my own hinges and also having to weld together the top five-pieces, two of which would be my hinges. Hey Madmook, what kind of stainless steel are you using for the hinges and what options as far as stronger stainless steel available could you make the hinge out of? I'd be interested in a set; however, I'd want to research the strength of the material the hinge will be made out of. I just want to be certain it will handle all of the weight from the frame, liftgate, and tailgate under under a hot CA summer day (say 110 degrees Farenheit worst case scenario).

    LGswingarm12.jpg
    Last edited by Michaelmotorcycle; 12-29-2012 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Added picture.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    Rick, I tend to disagree. I don't think it would be that difficult to do, and it's been done before. I'm pretty sure I could do it if I wanted to. Heck, Chevy did it with the delivery!

    I think a roll-down window would be a lot harder to do.
    You got me thinking about the Delivery's swing arm on the liftgate hinge. I noticed that the Delivery's swing arm is much wider. I'm now considering asking madmook to make a wider one (I keep getting these ideas just after I submit a post....I'm sure when someone reads my posts it will drive them a little batty to follow).
    LGswingarm12.jpg P1010022-1_zpsa7168a6b.jpg

    I am thinking that the Nomad's liftgate hinge swing arm will need to be widened to strengthen the hinge and prevent twisting and tweeking of the custom fabricated liftgate frame. Since the potmetal liftgate will now only be a cosmetic part, I think only the two outter hinge bolts on each hinge would be needed (that and also the fact that a widened swing arm will overlap the two inner bolt holes).

    Below is an example of what I am talking about:

    LGswingarm2.jpg
    Last edited by Michaelmotorcycle; 12-29-2012 at 10:01 AM.

  7. #17
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Michael, personally I think you're worrying too much about the hinge strength. They are not hardened, I'm sure, but just plain mild steel. However, making them wider if it's easy is not a bad idea. I'd actually be more worried about the strength of the bolt threads in the liftgate. I would not eliminate any of the bolts, and I would probably heli-coil all of them.

    One thing I'd be thinking about is whether you have room for a gas cylinder once you put the metal frame on the tailgate and liftgate. I do think you should attach the gas strut to the tailgate, and not rely on the liftgate to hold the tailgate up. You want to take as much stress off the liftgate as you can. I would attach the strut as low as practical on the tailgate, as they did on the Chrysler you posted. I would try to almost "balance" the assembly when it's in the up position to minimize twisting at the hinges.

    BTW, I can't imagine how leaving the liftgate with gas struts and torsion rods removed up for extended periods of time would twist it. The twisting occurred in the DOWN position with the torsion rods applying their stress to the top of the liftgate. In the up position, the torsion rods apply less stress. With the gas struts, the torsion rods are removed and there is very little stress on the liftgate.
    Last edited by chevynut; 12-30-2012 at 07:33 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  8. #18
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelmotorcycle View Post
    OK, I refined my idea a little more as my plan to weld on my stock liftgate hinges has not been sitting well with me. I noticed that Madmook made some and they are stainless (I had been thinking of using stainless material for the frame I want to build). If I got a set of Madmook's hinges (getting them without being welded together would actually be what I prefer since I am going to be welding my frame to them), then I could save myself a step in having to fabricate my own hinges and also having to weld together the top five-pieces, two of which would be my hinges. Hey Madmook, what kind of stainless steel are you using for the hinges and what options as far as stronger stainless steel available could you make the hinge out of? I'd be interested in a set; however, I'd want to research the strength of the material the hinge will be made out of. I just want to be certain it will handle all of the weight from the frame, liftgate, and tailgate under under a hot CA summer day (say 110 degrees Farenheit worst case scenario).

    LGswingarm12.jpg
    I'm pretty sure Madmook's liftgate hinges are aluminum. The TIG welding on them looks like aluminum too. If you want stainless, imo it wouldn't be that hard to make some especially if you have access to a CNC plasma or laser. 304 stainless would be a good choice since it's commonly available. It also has a higher yield strength (resistance to permanent bending) than mild steel, though the tensile strength isn't much higher.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    I do think you should attach the gas strut to the tailgate, and not rely on the liftgate to hold the tailgate up. You want to take as much stress off the liftgate as you can. I would attach the strut as low as practical on the tailgate, as they did on the Chrysler you posted. I would try to almost "balance" the assembly when it's in the up position to minimize twisting at the hinges.
    So this is what I am thinking about making as far as the portion of the bracket that will slide into the tailgate. I am considering cutting an access door and then reinforcing the sheetmetal using "step-vise grips". Ideally like to make this portion and the angled support bracket (that bolts onto the sides of the liftgate) from one piece of metal; however, I am thinking that I will have to make it from two pieces that will be welded together after mock up and making a several reference marks to ensure everything will fit properly once it is all assembled. The one thing that I am unsure of is if I want the ball stud to be threaded into this bracket (from where the cable retainers mount) or if I should make special brackets that the ball stud will mount to. I ended up wieghing my liftgate and it was 40 pounds. My tailgate was 45 pounds (I will be removing the hinges so I will have to weigh it again to get an accurate weight). I figure that the location I plan to mount the ball stud is fairly close to the center of gravity. I know how to find the center of gravity of a 2-dimensional square and a 3-dimensional cube; however, for good measure (and general principle) I would like to figure out how to obtain the center of gravity of an object that does not have the same mass through out and varying shape. Any ideas? I wish I had this question when I was taking physics (I remember the professor had found the center of gravity on a cardboard cutout of California. It spun around just like a tire in balance (it was a pretty cool demonstration).
    Tailgate bracket with access hole.jpg

    Below is how I am thinking of making the gas spring mount to the tailgate:

    Tailgate gas spring mount.jpg
    Last edited by Michaelmotorcycle; 01-05-2013 at 11:15 AM. Reason: wanted to add more information

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