Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
Here we go again....it's always something.Originally Posted by NickP
First the way I do the pinion support on my customer frames is no good and a torque arm is "better". Now the torque arm is no good even though it's essentially a ladder bar that doesn't move.
I don't have a heim at the front of my torque arm, it's a poly-bushed rod end. How much load is there at that point, what's the stress on the rod end, and what the breaking strength of that 5/8" thread rod end, RD?
I think you should warn everyone who makes ladder bars that they've been doing it all wrong for the past 50 years too.
Oh, and you should start another thread since it has nothing to do with this one.
Last edited by chevynut; 04-10-2016 at 02:47 PM.
56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension
Other vehicles:
56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
1962 327/340HP Corvette
1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
2001 Porsche Boxster S
2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax
I wasn't the only one that derailed the thread, like on how much torque a 502 has over anything else. Breaking strength has very little to do with dynamic fatigue strength. 600ftlb of torque X gear reduction, plus shock loads, is nothing to worry about, I guess. Poly, or spherical it doesn't matter, because they are designed for push/pull loads. Ladder bars split the loads on the joints, not just a single mount, and it is still not a great idea to put a threaded shaft in a bending moment, period. A coat hanger has a lot of tensile, and shear strength, but bend it back and forth a few times, and snap! You won't find much info out there on bending loads for heim joints, since they are not designed for 90 degree forces. Here is a ton of rod end info. It's great that wagon crazy's project is working out though.
http://www.aurorabearing.com/technical-resources.html
Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 04-10-2016 at 03:38 PM.
Despite the OT stuff, I got the information I wanted, and thank you for any ON TOPIC discussion.
I get the discussion of crate engines, that's only slightly OT, but where does handling and torque arm design come into this? It damn sure doesn't.
The last time I got into shit with Cnut, I was standing up for you, RD. I now realize you're not worth standing up for.
After running the numbers, it looks like I can get there basing the install off my driveshaft length. I'll have to move the trans mount 1/4" forward - there's already a slot in the crossmember to accommodate that. The hole in the tunnel may have to be elongated up to 1/2" forward, that's easy. That leaves me with a calculated 2" forward location of the bellhousing which is at least close. And I could get slightly more if needed and still keep my driveshaft. Looks like I'd need a 1-1/4" forward engine mount adapter plate, which Hooker sells.
Your post #23 was the first post that I consider off-topic on this thread. We were discussing options for Rick's engine and transmission, and I was trying to help, unlike you who just looks for an opportunity to criticize what others do. You threw in your engine weight issue and how it affects handling, as you're so fond of doing.
That's how you always work....you start off-topic posts and question everything and criticize other people's projects when you haven't shown ONE GODDAM PICTURE of your own projects or anything about anything you've designed or built. If you want to critique someone's design, and claim it to be inadequate, show some numbers that support your ongoing bullshit not just vague claims.
It's obvious you know nothing about the subject. There's nothing to worry about if the stresses are well below the strength of the materials in question. But you can't seem to understand that concept, you only throw out vague generalizations. I proved how FOS you were several times with your claims of my alleged "inadequate" designs, but it doesn't matter because you don't understand anything about engineered designs. You still criticize because you have ZERO knowledge of engineering calculations. Oh yeah, you claim engineering calculations don't matter because only driving it will tell you if it works, yada, yada.Breaking strength has very little to do with dynamic fatigue strength. 600ftlb of torque X gear reduction, plus shock loads, is nothing to worry about, I guess.
Ladder bars have been around for decades with heims on the ends, and they work fine if engineered correctly. The application is similar to my torque arm. It doesn't matter if there's one or two joints, only whether the load can be carried by the joint(s) safely. So what is the actual load on my torque arm, since you're so concerned? Truth is, you don't know.Poly, or spherical it doesn't matter, because they are designed for push/pull loads. Ladder bars split the loads on the joints, not just a single mount, and it is still not a great idea to put a threaded shaft in a bending moment, period. A coat hanger has a lot of tensile, and shear strength, but bend it back and forth a few times, and snap! You won't find much info out there on bending loads for heim joints, since they are not designed for 90 degree forces. Here is a ton of rod end info. It's great that wagon crazy's project is working out though.
http://www.aurorabearing.com/technical-resources.html
Besides, why the hell are you so worried about MY design of MY car? Show me calculations that show that the design is inadequate for the loads, if you have any idea how to do it. Throwing out a link with "a ton of rod end info" proves nothing, imo. Show me one thing that website says that proves that my design is "bad" as you seem to think.
If you want to discuss specific parts, engineering calculations, or whatever, start your own goddam thread and quit derailing the threads that others post to discuss their projects or to ask for info.
56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension
Other vehicles:
56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
1962 327/340HP Corvette
1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
2001 Porsche Boxster S
2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax
Rick, sorry for falling for RD's off-topic crap trap again on your thread.
It looks like everything is going to work out pretty closely. I do think you'll have to change transmissions, or at least change the input shaft. I remember seeing somewhere where you can buy input shafts for that swap....that may be a cheaper way to go.
Also, I'm not sure about your 1 1/4" forward mounts. Do they specify that from the bellhousing face? If so, I guess they would get you to 2" as you showed. I have seen some slotted LS adapter mounts that allow you to move the engine wherever you want it. I'm not sure what the range is.
56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension
Other vehicles:
56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
1962 327/340HP Corvette
1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
2001 Porsche Boxster S
2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax
You always know. Why does the NHRA require safety loops on the front heim joint on ladder bar suspensions? They also require a minimum 3/4 inch joint, not 5/8ths. If your gear ratio in first gear was 3 X 3.70 rear X 600ftlb, wouldn't you have over 6000 pounds of torque on the differential housing, if you had traction? BTW you went OT on post #19, and on every response on a OT comment.Your post #23 was the first post that I consider off-topic on this thread. We were discussing options for Rick's engine and transmission, and I was trying to help, unlike you who just looks for an opportunity to criticize what others do. You threw in your engine weight issue and how it affects handling, as you're so fond of doing.
That's how you always work....you start off-topic posts and question everything and criticize other people's projects when you haven't shown ONE GODDAM PICTURE of your own projects or anything about anything you've designed or built. If you want to critique someone's design, and claim it to be inadequate, show some numbers that support your ongoing bullshit not just vague claims.
It's obvious you know nothing about the subject. There's nothing to worry about if the stresses are well below the strength of the materials in question. But you can't seem to understand that concept, you only throw out vague generalizations. I proved how FOS you were several times with your claims of my alleged "inadequate" designs, but it doesn't matter because you don't understand anything about engineered designs. You still criticize because you have ZERO knowledge of engineering calculations. Oh yeah, you claim engineering calculations don't matter because only driving it will tell you if it works, yada, yada.
Ladder bars have been around for decades with heims on the ends, and they work fine if engineered correctly. The application is similar to my torque arm. It doesn't matter if there's one or two joints, only whether the load can be carried by the joint(s) safely. So what is the actual load on my torque arm, since you're so concerned? Truth is, you don't know.
Besides, why the hell are you so worried about MY design of MY car? Show me calculations that show that the design is inadequate for the loads, if you have any idea how to do it. Throwing out a link with "a ton of rod end info" proves nothing, imo. Show me one thing that website says that proves that my design is "bad" as you seem to think.
If you want to discuss specific parts, engineering calculations, or whatever, start your own goddam thread and quit derailing the threads that others post to discuss their projects or to ask for info.
Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 04-11-2016 at 05:53 AM.
Cnut, I looked at several mounts. Most do reference off the bellhousing face. I also saw three styles of adjustable mounts, plus a drawing for a DIY mount. Lots of choices, something will work. Keep in mind that I'm already 3/4" forward, so that 1-1/4" mount ends up 2" with what's already there.
There is no way I use the transmission "as is", it just doesn't work at all. Either get a 98-02 Camaro trans, or change the input shaft, mid plate, and bellhousing on mine, about $800 worth of parts. Or more if I considered an SFI approved bellhousing.
On the OT ladder bars, not only does NHRA require 3/4" ends with a safety loop, they must be solid eye style, not a spherical bearing.
It really does not matter what Cnut uses on his car because it is a show car.
Interesting, I haven't seen the 2016 book.
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