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Thread: Suspension Bushings - Delrin, Rulon or Other

  1. #11
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    LOL! Hope you're better this morning after a cup of coffee.

    The best way to think about coilover shock loads, imo, is to simply multiply the total spring compression at rest by the spring rate. If I have a shock with a 4" stroke and it runs 2" compressed with a spring preload of 1" that's 3" of total compression and the static axial load with a 400 lb/in spring would be 1200 pounds. If the shock bottoms out the total compression is 5" and there would be a 2000 pound axial load. QA-1 says the maximum axial load on these nylon race bearings is 2000 pounds. Summit's specs say 5000 pounds for the same part.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


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  2. #12
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    All friction aside, I think if you take a good look at the Banski trailing arms, or something similar, it is the way to go for the C4 IRS. I have no problem with poly bushings anywhere in the suspension, except the trailing arms.
    https://www.banskimotorsports.com/c4-trailing-arms.html
    They use Aurora rod ends rated at 8200lbs static load each.
    https://www.banskimotorsports.com/ke...-rod-ends.html
    Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 11-19-2016 at 03:17 PM.

  3. #13
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    I have no problem with poly bushings anywhere in the suspension, except the trailing arms.
    Here we go again ....clearly your "problem" is that you don't understand what's really going on in a C4 IRS or you wouldn't make comments like that and buy those harsh riding, wear-prone, over-priced non-GM trailing arms meant for racing, not street use. And what's the need for those expensive custom-machined cones that are made for high offset angles? You don't need them and will never see anywhere near 22 degrees of offset in a C4 IRS application. You could have bought 4 swaged aluminum rods and 8 of those cheap Aurora low carbon heims and made them yourself for less than half their price if that's what you wanted. And you wouldn't have "panicked" either.

    I already showed that poly bushings are not an issue for use in a stock C4 dogbone. The deflection angles are small and poly is not rigid material. If you have data (numbers) proving differently, then post them.
    Last edited by chevynut; 11-20-2016 at 08:36 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  4. #14
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    Of course poly dog bones probably feel nice, and free hanging off the ground in the shop, but under heavy acceleration/braking/cornering loads, it's just not convincing at all.

  5. #15
    Registered Member NickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55 Rescue Dog View Post
    Of course poly dog bones probably feel nice, and free hanging off the ground in the shop, but under heavy acceleration/braking/cornering loads, it's just not convincing at all.
    RD, if you're going to make a statement then please provide data, numbers, a white paper or something, be it yours or from some qualified source that validates your hypothesis. Shit man, anyone can drop a turd but until you compare them for texture, color, smell and resident chemicals, it's still just a turd.

  6. #16
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    Dammit, I'm sorry I keep forgetting this is the CN NP engineering forum where everything is proven on paper without ever driving a car from their R&D department. Me neither, but it is only simply a discussion until someone actually drives their car to show what works, and what doesn't. I have plenty of white papers that I wipe with, and a good vent fan too.

  7. #17
    Registered Member oceangoer's Avatar
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    I have decided to utilize spherical rod ends for my control arms.. Lowest friction and many other issues.

    I've used them in the lower caster struts for many years with great results.

    Has anyone used poly-graphite front control arm bushings ??

    http://p-s-t.com/series-220203-polyg...ke%3DCHEVROLET


    C4 Adj Dog Bone-5.jpg

  8. #18
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    According to this article, rubber bushings have no friction in rotation, but poly bushings do have friction that can change under load, and miles.

    http://www.elephantracing.com/techto...nefriction.htm

  9. #19
    Registered Member BamaNomad's Avatar
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    That's a pretty good article with some good information, although the bottom line suggestions seem to apply only to Porsches..

    A point was made that there was no 'friction' in rubber bushings which is true up until the rubber 'separates'... While there is no friction in a good rubber bushing, there is something else that we would prefer not to be there ... 'a spring constant'. Ideally, in a suspension system there would be no friction, no stiction, no spring constant, and no translation of the rotating axis, but of course we do not live in a perfect world, and there's no perfect solution to this problem... thus we have several options available depending on where we place the primary emphasis.

  10. #20
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    A point was made that there was no 'friction' in rubber bushings which is true up until the rubber 'separates'... While there is no friction in a good rubber bushing, there is something else that we would prefer not to be there ... 'a spring constant'.
    A rubber bushing is bonded to the sleeve and the shell, so by it's design it acts as a spring as you said. Add up all the little springs in each bushing and you get a lot of "binding" in the suspension which inhibits articulation. It's very hard to move a stock C4 rear suspension, or even a front C4 suspension. I have to loosen the nuts on the upper a-arm shafts to get them to move in my jig. They're always under shear loading, so they eventually fail by tearing.

    A poly or other polymeric bushing slides on the sleeve so there is no such "springiness" when designed and installed correctly. I found that mine worked a lot more smoothly when the bushings were the same width as the sleeve length. I think that's how they're supposed to be designed, but the manufacturers can't anticipate the tolerances in the suspension parts so they seem to cut them to the large side which causes friction on the sides of the bushings. In any case, you should lube the sides too when assembling the suspension.

    The spherical bearings probably provide the best articulation but the tradeoff is NVH and wear. I think the poly bushings are better for a street-driven car. Even a solid axle with a 4-link has some angular displacement as the car rolls. But poly bushings work well there too.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

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