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Thread: Nomad final assembly

  1. #141
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    Sorry for the delay here, I've been busy working on the house and not checking the computer that much.... Let me do my best to answer all of your questions between the last 2 posts.

    Regarding your amp selection, the Rockford Fosgate R600X5 (also kind of answers the 5 channel amp vs 4 channel + a sub amp)

    Judging by the specs listed for the amp I don't think that you will be able to mix and match impedance between the door speakers and the sub while retaining 4 channel speaker control ( basically you will lose the fade between front and rear speakers, and you will have to wire all 4 door speakers in PARALLEL to run at a 2ohm load) See chart below

    If you hooked up the amp in 4 channel mode, the amp will default to whatever the higher ohm value is (which is your door speakers @ 4 ohm). So the door speakers would run @ 50 watts and the sub would be running @ 200 watts RMS @ 4 ohm).

    Below are the specs from crutchfield notice how the only mix and match is specific and running bridged on 2 channels.


    • 5-channel car amplifier
    • 50 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 200 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms
    • 75 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms + 300 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
    • 150 watts RMS x 2 bridged at 4 ohms + 300 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms

    I've always wanted to run a single 5 channel amp, but never quite found an amp for my application that was efficient enough and cost effective. It's almost always cheaper/better (unless space is a big issue) to just run multiple amps and wire each to application for specific impedance without leaving efficiency on the table.


    Shallow Mount SUBS and 500W sub vs. 300W SUB

    Regarding the shallow mount subs.. I haven't ever installed one that I honestly felt was worth the extra $$ or the hassle.. (It has been 4 years or so since I've put one in). They're usually just, meh IMO.......

    Here are the size specs for shallow sub you posted vs. the Kicker 10" L7 that I prefer. These are the exterior box dimensions, the Kicker is smaller in the width, and only slightly larger in the height and depth..


    Rockford Fosgate P300-10T

    Width: 23-3/8"
    Height:=13-3/8"
    Depth One: 8-9/16"
    Depth Two: 5-3/4"


    Kicker TS10L7


    • Width: 21-1/2"
    • Height: 15"
    • Depth One: 10"
    • Depth Two: 6-11/16"



    Whats most important is matching impedance and maximizing efficiency, a speakers job is to move air... To put it in engine terms, If you slap a huge flowing set of cylinder heads on a Chevy 305, whats going to happen? Or if you put a restrictive intake/MAF/Carb on a well built 350 long block whats going to happen?

    Regarding your quote "I'm not looking for any heavy-duty thumping".. That's why I'm recommending a 10" L7... It is tight, punchy, responds quickly.... kick drums, stand up basses, and low frequency string instruments, etc... It's the best overall sub I've ever heard, I find most subs to be laggy, engineered for thump, and mostly for music that I don't care to listen to... but it absolutely will also "thump" if you want it to.


    Ported VS. Vented Enclosures

    The sub will usually dictate which type of enclosure to be used. The L7 uses a vented (ported) enclosure, and that's what helps it shine in such a small space. If you follow the sealed box specs for the L7, the box has to be considerably larger. I prefer subs with ported enclosures, I find most sealed box subs are for "thump".. but again, its what the sub calls for, I haven't heard them all so I hate to make a blanket generalization.

    Amp location

    Generally speaking, you don't usually have to access them once you have them dialed in. I usually spend a day or so tuning my system, which requires access to the amp occasionally to change settings. (crossover points, gains, etc). You could probably dial it in ahead of time, and tweak via the built in EQ on your kenwood reciever.. So i wouldn't be too worried about hiding them.

    RCA connections / Speaker Level

    Yes, get shielded twisted pair RCA's. Speaker level connections are an amplified signal from the amp in the head unit (reciever), the signal is then "de-amplified" inside the external amp and then re-amplified, thus degrading signal quality.

    IMPEDANCE
    Impedance can be tricky when dealing with Single voice coil speakers and dual voice coil subs. Here's an additional article on single voice coil wiring to supplement the other article I posted.

    Single Voice Coil wiring

    You are correct regarding my statement on my DVC L7 wiring, I wired in parallel, not in series (as I incorrectly stated) for a load @ 2ohm.

    Power Cabling
    I always run my 4 gauge wires directly to the battery or alternator take off, and run it straight back to the amp. They make distribution blocks as well, so you can run 1 wire back to a distribution block, then split that power between multiple amps... I usually run 4 gauge on everything I install


    Picking Amp VS. SUB

    I pick the SUB first based on how it sounds and the application it is for, then I find an amp to power it that matches the specs... But to be honest, since I came across the 10" kicker (started with an L5 10 years ago, now I'm on the L7's) I haven't installed anything else in any of my personal vehicles.. I have one in the audi and one in the silverado as we speak.

    Let me know if I missed questions or if I can help answer anything else...

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrifiveRichard View Post
    Isn't 100W RMS per channel pretty high for the front speakers? Is 350W RMS enough for a sub?

    If I wanted to use regular wires in a harness between the receiver and the amp to keep everything "clean", would I use the "speaker level" inputs on the amp? I don't know the difference between using the RCA cables and using the main receiver connector but I assume the RCA cables would be for pre-amp signals. Is one better than the other? I need to understand this so I can wrap up my console harness wiring.[/QUOTE

    considering power level, I prefer to have power in reserve, rather than turning up the volume and getting significant harmonic distortion. That’s also where the Dynamat, or Hushmat in my case,used liberally pays for its self. This is probably all a personal preference, but it works for me. FYI, the system I installed was about $2,200 from Crutchfield.

    concerning connection the receiver to the amp channels, the shielded RCA cables are the only way to OMO. You get a cleaner signal without the added receiver output noise, and you don’t have to twist the pairs.

    Considering the amp, the amp literature usually has the preferred routing, gauge and fuses, and often comes with it.

    I think most of your questions I answered with my reply to chevynut, but in summary.

    Always use RCA inputs with if you're running from the RCA output of the head unit / receiver. Speaker level inputs are for amplified signals, RCA's are for pre-amplified signals.

    Matching amp to subs in both watt & impedance will maximize efficiency and there will be no need for power in "reserve" as the speakers will be operating as efficiently as possible....

    the RCA's Cnut posted will work fine, the twisted pair will help reject interference.. You really shouldn't need shielded unless you're running up next to a bunch of AC power



    Also, I love crutchfield and have used them for years.. I ALWAYS buy my head unit from them because they make it so damn easy to install... I always get everything I need and never have to run to the store or place another order... when I can, I buy anything else I need from them.. but often they're a LOT higher on amps and peripherals.... But I will say, their service is ALWAYS top notch and I can't recommend them enough.
    Last edited by 56Safari; 04-10-2019 at 08:37 PM. Reason: grammar

  3. #143
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    A couple of additional things to add to my previous post for Cnut.


    Apparently kicker has discontinued the L7 loaded in a truck box enclosure.. I'm not sure if the new version is too deep to install in a truck box, or if it just isn't hitting their target market.. you can still find loaded truck box versions of the L7 new on ebay. Judging by the pics of the new versions of the L7 on the kicker website, it looks much deeper than the older models.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kicker-44TL...QAAOSwrhha-cpo



    Also, regarding my post about the L7 box size, sealed vs. ported... I technically mis-spoke... Technically you CAN install an L7 in a smaller sealed box vs. ported (overall volume), but a sealed box requires specific panel lengths that make it more square and harder to conceal... A truck box mounted L7 is almost twice as wide but really thin and much easier to put under a seat or conceal.

    Speakers have changed a TON in the last 10 years, so If you're still on the fence and I haven't sold you, it might be worth going to a local shop and listening to some stuff.. but I would make sure to bring your own music that YOU listen to. Make sure to bring multiple different styles to see how well they do in each genre... make sure you have some old songs you know like the back of your hand so you'll instantly know if something doesn't sound right.. I listen for tightness, punch, responsiveness, and frequency range... some subs are laggy and suited for the lowest of the lows, you don't wan't those..

    A good test I find with subs is how well they perform when they have multiple tasks to execute at once.. If a bass player is playing long, sustained notes and a kick drum comes in... Does the bass disappear? does the kick barely hit? or does the sub keep the sustained bass riff and let the kick drum punch through... thats my .02

  4. #144
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    56Safari, thanks for the great reply. I understand most of what you said but I have a couple more questions or clarifications.

    Judging by the specs listed for the amp I don't think that you will be able to mix and match impedance between the door speakers and the sub while retaining 4 channel speaker control ( basically you will lose the fade between front and rear speakers, and you will have to wire all 4 door speakers in PARALLEL to run at a 2ohm load) See chart below

    Hmmmm, I assumed the sub was more or less an independent amp since it has its own inputs and outputs. The total power of the RF amp is supposed to be 600W RMS. I thought you could run each pair of speakers configured the way you wanted to. How do you run the front speakers in parallel when they have their own dedicated outputs? If you run the LF and RF in parallel you lose left and right control, and if you run the LF and LR in parallel you lose fade control.

    Isn't the voice coil wiring you posted referring to multiple subs, not speakers? It's hard to believe they would design an amp that required you to parallel speakers meant for different channels.

    So can't I just wire the front speakers and rear speakers to present 4 ohms impedence to the amp to get 50W per channel, and the sub voice coils in parallel to present 2 ohms impedance to its amp to get 300W? That's still only 500W total. Or do all speakers/subs always have to have the same impedance?

    If it doesn't work that way, I could go with two separate amps if necessary. Space under the rear seat and/or in the console is not a problem. If I put them under the seat access isn't a problem. In the console is a lot more difficult once it's put together, unless I make an easily removable top.

    I always run my 4 gauge wires directly to the battery or alternator take off, and run it straight back to the amp. They make distribution blocks as well, so you can run 1 wire back to a distribution block, then split that power between multiple amps... I usually run 4 gauge on everything I install
    Where do you put your circuit protection? I thought I would run 4 gauge from the starter into the console, about 2 feet, to a 80A MIDI fuse, then to the amp in the rear. I can put a distribution block in the rear if I need it for more than one amp. From the "hot" side of the MIDI fuse I would run another 8 gauge wire to my other breakers that feed the fuse panel. Perhaps a MIDI fuse holder is too small to connect those large wires, so I could use a MAXI fuse holder instead. Essentially, I'd use the fuse as a distribution block in front.


    Apparently kicker has discontinued the L7 loaded in a truck box enclosure..
    Isn't this it? https://www.kicker.com/solo-baric-l7s-10-subwoofer-box

    I take your word on the L7 since I have zero experience with any sub. I will probably delay the sub purchase until I get to finishing up the car's interior, but I need to get wiring done now. So I want to get the amp(s) and cabling so I know what I need to run.

    I plan to run the RCA leads I posted from the receiver back to the rear seat area, then from the amp I'll run 16 gauge wire to the front crossovers and to the rear speakers which are just behind the rear seat. The sub will sit in the storage area behind the rear seat. Would it make sense to build my own custom enclosure to make it fit exactly in the space?

    Also, I noticed some guys put a grille between the rear seats...I assume that's to get more bass sound through it? Everything I've read says you don't need to do that.

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    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  5. #145
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    56Safari, I called Crutchfield and the rep told me that any 5-channel amp can be configured to run the speakers at one impedance, and the sub at a different impedance. So he confirmed I can run the R600x5 at 4 ohms each for the front and rear speakers, and the sub at 2 ohms. He said the design is basically two separate amps in the same box. He confirmed that with another rep.

    I assume to get the full 600W of output you'd have to run two 4-ohm speakers in parallel for each channel, to get 2 ohms each or run 2 ohm speakers on each channel. I didn't even know they made them .
    Last edited by chevynut; 04-11-2019 at 09:26 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  6. #146
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    In fact, it looks like you could run two 4-ohm front speakers to get 50 watts per channel, four 4-ohm rear speakers with each pair in parallel to get 2 ohms and 75 watts per channel, and the sub at 2 ohms to get 300W. I understand that any configuration of impedances works per channel since each channel is essentially an independent amplifier.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  7. #147
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    Z=E/I. Impedance always make my head spin, since the resistance changes with frequency. The total opposition to the flow of current in an AC inductive circuit is called impedance and is measured in ohms. Bottom line is, there is a lot of resistance/low current at high frequencies, but not much resistance, and more current at zero hertz. And then there is power/watts. P=E x I
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
    Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 04-11-2019 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #148
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    Mixing & Matching Amplifier Impedance

    I sent an email to kicker just to confirm what the crutchfield rep. said regarding matching impedance for that amp...They're probably right as it is their day job... but I want to make sure.... I'm haven't had to mix and match the impedance on an amp before.

    Regarding Bridging the amp.. If you HAVE to bridge the amp, you would want to bridge the channels front to back and not side to side. So Left Front and Left Rear would be 1 channel and Right Front and Right Rear would be 1 channel....

    A sub can have more than one voice coil, so 1 10" L7 dual voice coil speaker will have 2 positive and 2 negative connections.

    Circuit Protection

    I usually run the fuse on my vehicles 12" or less from the battery.. A lot of places recommend 18" or less, but definitely consider the path of destruction if the postiive became grounded..... I think a MIDI fuse is okay, its a Mini version of the ANL fuses which are commonly used in car audio.


    Kicker L7
    Apparently kicker has discontinued the L7 loaded in a truck box enclosure..


    Isn't this it? https://www.kicker.com/solo-baric-l7s-10-subwoofer-box

    You found it! I must have been going blind last night.. but that's good to hear, I was disheartened last night when I was having trouble finding it.

    As far as the custom enclose goes, I would only make one if it was necessary for space or for some aesthetic value. The L7 truck box kicker provides is great, comes with the fiber filling and the port length is calculated to spec. If it fits, I wouldn't bother just secure it from sliding around. An interior facing grill is irrelevant, at that frequency bass is omnidirectional with one speaker and the wavelength is so long it will make no difference.

  9. #149
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56Safari View Post
    A sub can have more than one voice coil, so 1 10" L7 dual voice coil speaker will have 2 positive and 2 negative connections.
    I understand the L7 sub with the enclosure only has one pair of connections (one + and one -) at 2 ohms. I thought that's what I read.

    I usually run the fuse on my vehicles 12" or less from the battery.. A lot of places recommend 18" or less, but definitely consider the path of destruction if the postiive became grounded..... I think a MIDI fuse is okay, its a Mini version of the ANL fuses which are commonly used in car audio.
    My battery is behind the passenger rear tire. The positive side (2 gauge) goes to a jumper lug, then to a Moroso disconnect, then INSIDE the frame through conduit to the cowl area where it exits and goes to the starter. From the starter I'll have 4 gauge about 18-24" into the interior of the car. just behind the firewall. I could put a fuse on the engine block but it would be something like the 175A MIDI fuse on the alternator side.

    I plan to use this block right at the firewall, inside the console. It will allow me to connect the 4 gauge and split it into a 4 gauge to the amp and an 8 gauge to the breakers. I think it's pretty small and I don't have a lot of space there.


    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  10. #150
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    Sorry I don’t know squat about audio but your fabrication on all the rest of the interior lay out looks great.

    I enjoy the coverage. Thank you

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