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Thread: Firing up the Ramjet 502!

  1. #71
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCW View Post
    I still have an old Dell XP unit if you need it.
    Thanks for the offer Nick. I messed around with the PC last night and everything seemed to work fine. I could upload and download maps with no issues, no run-time errors, no "not responding" warnings. I told my neighbor I'd take the one he offered me and if the one I'm using starts acting up again I'm done with it. If there's any issue with his I may take you up on your offer.

    I did find out what was causing the fuel problem with my map....somehow the hardware setting got changed to TBI from MPI. It's a little confusing if you're not careful when you're uploading and downloading programs and changing things directly in the ECU. I don't know if that setting was a result of a data transfer problem or what caused it. I changed just that setting in the ECU and it fired right up. All the RPM cells seem correct now and everything is looking good for now.

    I adjusted idle screw down so the IAC is controlling the idle and it seems to be working fine. Then I re-calibrated the TPS settings. The WB O2 also looks like it's working well. I'm unsure where I should have the idle spark advance set and the Holley map has it at 18 degrees. How do you determine what's optimum? Maximum vacuum? I haven't measured vacuum yet.

    One other thing I tried......I got the engine to about 200F and wired the fans on at full speed. In just a couple minutes the temperature was down to 160 and stayed there. It was about 60 degrees in the shop (it was 70 here yesterday) but based on that test I think my cooling capacity is going to be fine. I thought I had a 180 thermostat although I really can't remember what I bought.

    Still can't get the PS pump to work. I may have to remove it and see what's wrong. It's turning clockwise and I thought all of them turned the same but I found out they don't. I wonder if S&P screwed me up and sent me a reverse-rotation PS pump....how can you tell by looking at it?
    Last edited by chevynut; 11-24-2017 at 08:26 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
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  2. #72
    Registered Member NickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    Still can't get the PS pump to work. I may have to remove it and see what's wrong. It's turning clockwise and I thought all of them turned the same but I found out they don't. I wonder if S&P screwed me up and sent me a reverse-rotation PS pump....how can you tell by looking at it?
    Thinking back to when all of that took place, it wouldn't surprise me if they (S&P) did mess up. If you never had the opportunity to be in their store, the place was a mess. I liken it to a hoarders home. Being 40 minutes down the road from my house I made the trip often and was always amazed at the mess. Really sad.

  3. #73
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    Type 2 pumps can have either rotation direction, depends on the belt routing. They are different bodies for CW vs. CCW. Real common either way. As you said, with a reservoir above the pump, priming won't be a problem. Bleeding some air by rotating the steering wheel saves time and a lot of weird noises, perhaps even some wear and tear. You'll still have to bleed by turning the steering wheel after the pump is operating. No self bleeding noises indicate to me that the pump isn't pumping.

    You have vacuum readings from your logs. It's the MAP sensor reading. Lowest MAP is highest vacuum. Adjusting from your 18 degrees in small steps should give you an idea of what it likes.

  4. #74
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    So here's what I found with my PS pump. I took the belt off and spun the pump both ways by hand....it turns real easy but there's no indication of any pumping action either way. The fluid in the reservoir never moved. Then I drained the fluid from the reservoir and removed the lines and removed the pump from the engine. It was full of fluid so I drained it. I tried blowing into both the inlet and outlet fittings, and it acts as if it was completely blocked....no air goes through either fitting even while rotating the pump. I happen to have C4 pump and I blew through both fittings....air goes through the pump without rotating it.

    I decided to try to take the pump apart but it's giving me fits. I can't get the aluminum pulley off and don't know how it's attached. When I look through the hole in the center I see a hex in the pump shaft. But the pulley hole is smaller than the shaft. So I assume it's pressed on, and I really don't want to press it off if I don't have to. If I mess up the chromed aluminum pulley I'm screwed because I can't get another one like it.

    So I took the round snap ring off the back of the pump figuring I can take it apart that way but the back plate won't come out. Now I'm stuck and don't know what to do. I've searched the internet for instructions or a video on disassembling and rebuilding a Type 2 pump and can't find anything useful.

    The pump I have has an aluminum body and some casting marks on it. I don't know what it's made for, I just ordered it from S&P with the rest of the accessory drive.

    Any help? Not sure where to turn now but I believe there's something wrong with the pump.
    Last edited by chevynut; 11-24-2017 at 11:01 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  5. #75
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_L View Post
    Adjusting from your 18 degrees in small steps should give you an idea of what it likes.
    What does "what it likes" mean? Should I be shooting for the maximum vacuum I can get, or what do I look for? I can't go by the idle because the IAC will control that.

    The Holley manual only says "Optimizing timing is vert important for best idle" and "The timing an engine needs at idle varies widely depending on its specifications. Typically the bigger the cam the more qdvance the engine needs for the best idle". They give no information as to what "best idle" means or what to look for and I'm not experienced in that area.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  6. #76
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Update on the PS pump . I took the bracket off of it and started hammering on the back plate with a plastic mallet, trying to loosen it and knock it out so I could look inside....but it wouldn't budge. For some reason I tried to blow through it again and I could! I must have dislodged something with the mallet, maybe a stuck vane or something. So I put a hex key in my drill and went over to my solvent bench and put the solvent nozzle in the inlet of the pump and spun it. I got it to pump solvent . I ran it a while to try to clean out whatever was making it hang up (it's been sitting for over 10 years) and it seemed like it was pumping pretty strong. Not sure what was stuck.

    Anyhow, I put the lock ring and bracket back on, reinstalled the pump, reservoir, and lines, filled it with fluid, purged it a little, and started the engine. Now I can clearly see I'm getting fluid circulating back into the reservoir.

    I tried steering it and it still doesn't seem to have any assist with the engine running, but it's not hard to turn. I'm only turning the steering u-joint with no wheels on the chassis, so there's no load. So I'm assuming that the fluid is supposed to circulate continuously through the pump, rack valve, and reservoir, and the assist only happens when the valve senses a load at the rack, then it directs fluid to the rack cylinder.

    Does that sound right? I sure don't want to pull the rack out later. How can I test the pump to make sure I'm getting full pressure? How can I test the rack?
    Last edited by chevynut; 11-24-2017 at 02:46 PM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  7. #77
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCW View Post
    I still have an old Dell XP unit if you need it.
    Got another runtime error today after installing the ps pump. When I get that I have to re-boot the computer and it takes forever. My neighbor told me his computer is actually a W7 computer but he has some kind of bootable XP emulator thingie he thinks may work. He's an IT guy so I'm taking his word for it but I'm not really optimistic since he told me today it's taking a lot longer than he expected to load it.

    So I may take you up on your offer after all. I'll let you know.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  8. #78
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    Idle quality assessment is dependent on your ear and feel as well as the higher the vacuum, the better it's running. No need for over complication. It's what YOU want it to be.

    On the p/s pulley, you need a special puller/installer tool for the GM pump. HF has one that's somewhat decent for not too much.

    The power steering valve in your rack is "open center". This means that when you aren't steering the car, fluid moves through the valve and returns to tank. Under this condition, there is no pressure generated other than what it takes to move fluid through the lines. It won't even register on a gauge. Maximum pressure and flow is maintained by the flow/pressure regulator valve in the pump outlet. Any excess pressure or flow is bypassed back to the pump inlet. Your flow/pressure control valve may have been stuck open and freed up by the hammer blows.

    Not sure how you'd be able to feel assist without having tires on the ground. I've never been able to with them in the air, or with the wheels/tires removed. There's just not enough resistance.

    Keep in mind that the system only has the pressure it needs to overcome resistance. You'll only see maximum pressure when you take the box or rack to full travel.

  9. #79
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_L View Post
    Idle quality assessment is dependent on your ear and feel as well as the higher the vacuum, the better it's running. No need for over complication. It's what YOU want it to be.
    Okay I guess that helps a little. It's idling at 850 RPM and don't think it can go too much lower. It was a little higher and it sounded a lot different. On cold startup it goes to 1100 RPM and drops as it warms up based on what's programmed into the IAC table. I'll mess with the timing and see what the vacuum does. I also think the fuel map may be a little rich on a cold start but I haven't really looked closely at that. It just smells like it's rich. Once it gets to 120F I have it set to go closed loop and idle at 15:1 A/F which it seems to do pretty well. I haven't done any other tuning.

    On the p/s pulley, you need a special puller/installer tool for the GM pump.
    The special GM tool won't work on my pulley. The pulley is a custom aluminum one from S&P and doesn't have anything to grab onto. I think maybe the best way to get it off would be to support the pulley on a press and press on the shaft through the center of the pulley. I don't think I need to do that now.

    20171009_002.JPG



    The power steering valve in your rack is "open center". This means that when you aren't steering the car, fluid moves through the valve and returns to tank. Under this condition, there is no pressure generated other than what it takes to move fluid through the lines.
    Looks like that's what I'm getting. I can clearly see flow back to the reservoir when looking into it.

    Your flow/pressure control valve may have been stuck open and freed up by the hammer blows.
    Not sure I see how that would have prevented me from blowing through the pump. Anyhow, something came loose.

    Not sure how you'd be able to feel assist without having tires on the ground. I've never been able to with them in the air, or with the wheels/tires removed. There's just not enough resistance.
    Thanks for confirming what I concluded. The rack feels the same whether the engine is running or not. Once I got the pump working I noticed the engine loads down a little near the ends of the rack travel, so it must be building pressure. I'll call it done and keep my fingers crossed that everything works when the car's together. Thanks for the input!
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

  10. #80
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    Looking at your pulley, I can see it doesn't have the flange that the puller uses for a GM pulley. The tool when used for installation also pushes a stock style pulley on to the correct fore/aft location. So it's purely a custom deal and you have to use other means to install or remove.

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