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  1. #21
    Registered Member BamaNomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56 wagon View Post
    Sorry, just saw your question. I really like the chassis. No problems whatsoever. Back when he first started I thought they sat to high (factory height). I asked if he could build it 1 in lower and he said yes. I think mine was the first one he did that way. I believe he started building them all that height since then or it could be my imagination. Anyway I haven't met a nicer or more honest individual in the car business than Billy, and would buy from again in a second. Good luck on your build.
    I totally agree with your comments about Billy... so much so that I bought from him even though I had a 930 mile drive each way to get the chassis, and I've two good custom chassis builders within 20 minutes of my home!

  2. #22
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    One downside I see to their chassis, as well as Newman's and the Newman clone from RR Frames is that they are not set up with an option to use coilovers. The upper shock mount in front is set up for a stud top mount which is what a C4 uses. You can get coilovers with a stud mount but they're not common. Also, the mount has to be able to carry the weight of the corner of the car, and designed so the springs clear the frame which I think could be an issue. In the rear, the shocks look too close to the halfshafts to use coilovers. Some guys may not want to use coilovers, but it sure makes it a lot easier to set up the desired ride height, especially in front. Otherwise you end up taking the entire front end apart to add or remove shims between the leaf spring and k-member. And changing spring rate is very limited with the stock springs.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension

    You can see my 56 Nomad build here http://www.picturetrail.com/chevynut

    For affordable C4 Corvette Suspension conversions for your car, visit http://www.classicedgedesigns.com

    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax

  3. #23
    Registered Member BamaNomad's Avatar
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    CN.. In *your* opinion, that might be a downside, but in my opinion, it's not.

    Billy's design uses the stock Corvette transverse urethane springs, front and rear. There are a variety of them for different options, different years of C4 Corvettes, and the Corvette weights are not very different than TriFives. I drove the '55 sedan he did, and it drove/rode *perfect* in my opinion; I'm a little concerned about the extra weight of the Nomad in the rear, but I suggested he use one of the higher spring rate springs in the rear, and I think he did that... the proof will be in the pudding once I get it completed and drive it... I have only ONE car with coil overs (the '56 Nomad had QA1's in the front), and I personally don't like them. I will replace those as soon as I can with stock type springs, and stiff shocks.

  4. #24
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    Billy owns both of those cars; you apparently saw his display at the show? or maybe he and his wife just drove the cars to that show? They are in Seguin, not sure how far that is from Lockhart?
    Lockhart is not far from Seguin at all, maybe 30-40 miles. The guy that was there was not Billy, I took it he was his right hand man. Unless he doesn't admit to being himself, LOL. Talked to the same guy last year.

    The Corvette was not orange. It was a green metallic. There was no real display, just those two cars amongst all others. This is an outdoor show, just lots of cars parked on streets of Lockhart, centered around the town square but extending several blocks from the square. I don't know how many cars they had this year, but last year they had 1200, claimed 30000 people attending. This year was similar. Huge turnout for early February, and the weather was not all that great - upper 50s with mist midday, rain early morning. This show REALLY rocked 2-3 years ago (can't remember which) when it was 70° and sunny. Lockhart is about 30 miles SE of Austin.

    Probably the best show I've been to in recent years. Yeah all 3 I've attended.
    Last edited by Rick_L; 02-06-2018 at 09:26 PM.

  5. #25
    Registered Member BamaNomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_L View Post
    ...

    The Corvette was not orange. It was a green metallic. There was no real display, just those two cars amongst all others. ...
    Ah... too bad you didn't get to meet Billy... And I'm not recalling seeing the green C1 Corvette before, maybe it's a new one they have done, or my memory is failing me..

  6. #26
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaNomad View Post
    CN.. In *your* opinion, that might be a downside, but in my opinion, it's not.
    Well it's a limitation, so imo it's a downside . Having the OPTION to use coilovers increases the flexibility for setting ride height. I know Newman fought the spring issue with his frames that use stock C4 springs. Several of my customers tried using the stock springs and they weren't happy with them and were glad to have a coilover option. I have one customer who said he couldn't get his car to sit where he wanted it to sit with the stock springs, so he went to coilovers and solved the problem. If you don't have the option, your solutions are limited. My frames allow either the stock springs or coilovers, depending on what the customer wants or what works for him. I had advised several of my customers to try using the stock springs, mostly to save money since coilovers add around $1200 to a chassis.

    Billy's design uses the stock Corvette transverse urethane springs, front and rear. There are a variety of them for different options, different years of C4 Corvettes, and the Corvette weights are not very different than TriFives.
    There are a "variety" but not that many . And they're designed to support a C4 Corvette at a particular height, regardless of spring rate. In other words, using any other weight will cause the suspension to sit at a different height than a C4. The rear isn't such a big issue because you can easily adjust the ride height with the spring end bolt that's attached to the knuckle, or you can shim the spring at the differential case. The front gets nastier.

    A Corvette's total weight is SIMILAR to a tri5 but it's lighter at 3200-3300 pounds depending on body style. Also, the engine sits at least 4" further back than in a tri5. Wade's blue 57 Nomad weighed 1870 pounds in front and 1816 pounds in the rear, with an LS engine and 4L60E transmission. A stock C4 Corvette is supposed to have 51% of the weight in front, so about 1660 pounds. That's over 200 pounds more and 100 pounds per corner even with an LS engine. With a wheel rate of around 100-150 pounds or so for the stock C4 suspension, depending on the particular spring, the Tri5 front end with C4 suspension and stock spring should sit around 1" lower than a C4 with that SAME SPRING. This could theoretically be at least partially corrected with more shims between the spring and k-member. Or you could use a stiffer spring and cut that droop down some, but at a sacrifice of ride quality. And it's a PITA to add shims or change a front spring. A heavier engine with an iron block makes it even worse. That's where coilovers help, especially in the front. They just give you an easy way to adjust the ride height if it's not correct. And they give you a relatively easy way to adjust spring rate, within a range.


    I drove the '55 sedan he did, and it drove/rode *perfect* in my opinion; I'm a little concerned about the extra weight of the Nomad in the rear, but I suggested he use one of the higher spring rate springs in the rear, and I think he did that... the proof will be in the pudding once I get it completed and drive it...
    I would be more concerned about the front weight than the rear, especially if you're using an iron block/head engine. You might be able to find a stock front spring that works fine, and I know Newman used them. You're right.....the proof is in the pudding. I'll be interested to see how you end up, and how your suspension geometry is when the car is all together.

    I have only ONE car with coil overs (the '56 Nomad had QA1's in the front), and I personally don't like them.
    What don't you like about them? They're just a spring around a shock, not much different than a stock setup. When set up right, coilovers can give a good ride quality and good performance. Note that AME uses coilovers on all of their chassis and guys say they love them. So does Roadster shop, and most other chassis builders not to mention the supercars that use them. A lot of guys have said a stock C4 Corvette rides too rough for them, so everyone's preferences are different.
    Last edited by chevynut; 02-07-2018 at 09:24 AM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension

    You can see my 56 Nomad build here http://www.picturetrail.com/chevynut

    For affordable C4 Corvette Suspension conversions for your car, visit http://www.classicedgedesigns.com

    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax

  7. #27
    Registered Member 55 Rescue Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    Well it's a limitation, so imo it's a downside . Having the OPTION to use coilovers increases the flexibility for setting ride height. I know Newman fought the spring issue with his frames that use stock C4 springs. Several of my customers tried using the stock springs and they weren't happy with them and were glad to have a coilover option. I have one customer who said he couldn't get his car to sit where he wanted it to sit with the stock springs, so he went to coilovers and solved the problem. If you don't have the option, your solutions are limited. My frames allow either the stock springs or coilovers, depending on what the customer wants or what works for him. I had advised several of my customers to try using the stock springs, mostly to save money since coilovers add around $1200 to a chassis.



    There are a "variety" but not that many . And they're designed to support a C4 Corvette at a particular height, regardless of spring rate. In other words, using any other weight will cause the suspension to sit at a different height than a C4. The rear isn't such a big issue because you can easily adjust the ride height with the spring end bolt that's attached to the knuckle, or you can shim the spring at the differential case. The front gets nastier.

    A Corvette's total weight is SIMILAR to a tri5 but it's lighter at 3200-3300 pounds depending on body style. Also, the engine sits at least 4" further back than in a tri5. Wade's blue 57 Nomad weighed 1870 pounds in front and 1816 pounds in the rear, with an LS engine and 4L60E transmission. A stock C4 Corvette is supposed to have 51% of the weight in front, so about 1660 pounds. That's over 200 pounds more and 100 pounds per corner even with an LS engine. With a wheel rate of around 100-150 pounds or so for the stock C4 suspension, depending on the particular spring, the Tri5 front end with C4 suspension and stock spring should sit around 1" lower than a C4 with that SAME SPRING. This could theoretically be at least partially corrected with more shims between the spring and k-member. Or you could use a stiffer spring and cut that droop down some, but at a sacrifice of ride quality. And it's a PITA to add shims or change a front spring. A heavier engine with an iron block makes it even worse. That's where coilovers help, especially in the front. They just give you an easy way to adjust the ride height if it's not correct. And they give you a relatively easy way to adjust spring rate, within a range.




    I would be more concerned about the front weight than the rear, especially if you're using an iron block/head engine. You might be able to find a stock front spring that works fine, and I know Newman used them. You're right.....the proof is in the pudding. I'll be interested to see how you end up, and how your suspension geometry is when the car is all together.



    What don't you like about them? They're just a spring around a shock, not much different than a stock setup. When set up right, coilovers can give a good ride quality and good performance. Note that AME uses coilovers on all of their chassis and guys say they love them. So does Roadster shop, and most other chassis builders not to mention the supercars that use them. A lot of guys have said a stock C4 Corvette rides too rough for them, so everyone's preferences are different.
    I would love to disagree with about most of what you just posted, like sprung weight/un-sprung weight, but it has nothing to do with Richard's welcome thread. Millions of C2-C7 cars work pretty good with a traverse spring, and even the 1964 Corvair, (GM's fix for IRS weight jacking). My old 1930 Model A cornered pretty flat with only simple F/R traverse springs sitting high in the sky.
    Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 02-07-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  8. #28
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55 Rescue Dog View Post
    I would love to disagree with about most of what you just posted.
    Of course you would, but you'd still be wrong, as usual.

    Also, another deficiency of the Corvette Correction chassis that I noticed is he doesn't use a rear swaybar for some reason. That can't be right, because that's not the way GM designed it. Every modern car I know of has both front and rear swaybars, even the C5, 6, and 7 Corvettes. Heck, I'll bet my mom's Toyota Yaris has one!

    If you're just going to cruise around town in a great driving car with the C4 suspension, a rear swaybar maybe doesn't matter. But then why would a Toyota Yaris have one?
    Last edited by chevynut; 02-07-2018 at 10:12 PM.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension

    You can see my 56 Nomad build here http://www.picturetrail.com/chevynut

    For affordable C4 Corvette Suspension conversions for your car, visit http://www.classicedgedesigns.com

    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax

  9. #29
    Registered Member 55 Rescue Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    Of course you would, but you'd still be wrong, as usual.

    Also, another deficiency of the Corvette Correction chassis that I noticed is he doesn't use a rear swaybar for some reason. That can't be right, because that's not the way GM designed it. Every modern car I know of has both front and rear swaybars, even the C5, 6, and 7 Corvettes. Heck, I'll bet my mom's Toyota Yaris has one!

    If you're just going to cruise around town in a great driving car with the C4 suspension, a rear swaybar maybe doesn't matter. But then why would a Toyota Yaris have one?
    Of course you are always right, but the base C7 doesn't use a rear sway bar, and doesn't a traverse spring add roll stiffness all by itself? I'm not going to use a rear bar unless I determine it has to have one after testing it. Many vehicles and race cars do not need, or use a rear bar. Have you ever even driven a C4 Vette, or a C4 tri-five of anyone's design including your own? I think I know the answer, not knowing if you have explored the limits of the handling of any car at an autocross, or at any track. Or, just cruising?
    Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 02-08-2018 at 05:48 PM.

  10. #30
    Registered Member 55 Rescue Dog's Avatar
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    For anyone using C4 traverse springs, it is very easy to work on them, with the factory Kent-Moore tool. Found the complete $1500 tool for $280. ACH]8289[/ATTACH]20160628_152716.jpg20160628_120747.jpg
    Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 02-09-2018 at 05:50 PM.

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