Measuring axle length

[markm]

BTW, these are not C-clip eliminators, they are big F*rd ends with the tapered Timkin "set 20" bearings. Everyone wanted to sell me the ball bearing set but I insisted on the tapered ones. I am saving the bill and making a copy of it too. I also measured and wrote down all the dimensions. I did happen to use the heavy Lucas lube, and even though it says it's good for posi clutches, I added that special stuff to it also but it wasn't the GM brand. So far no chattering around sharp turns.

Why did you want tapered roller bearings. These cars came with ball and so did many others in the 50s and 60s.

[55 Tony]

Yep, back in the 50's and 60's they were common, there is a reason they aren't used in new cars now. Tapered roller bearings are superior to ball bearings. Much more surface area, like about 85% more? Plus the taper is much better for lateral forces.

[chevynut]

Yep, back in the 50's and 60's they were common, there is a reason they aren't used in new cars now. Tapered roller bearings are superior to ball bearings. Much more surface area, like about 85% more? Plus the taper is much better for lateral forces.

Welcome to the 21st century. Some of us actually made it.

[Rick_L]

A single tapered roller bearing takes thrust only in one direction. One way to get thrust control in both directions is to use a pair of them in opposing directions, as is done on the front end of many cars. So how do you get thrust control in both directions on a rear axle?

On the other hand many but not all single ball bearings can take thrust in both directions. Neither one has much moment (bending) capability.

I don't know how you can say either one is better. Depends on what you need to do. Besides the thrust issue, tapered rollers generally have more capacity and longer life for a given size. But ball bearings have less rolling resistance. That's why they have come back into favor in recent years.

[markm]

Falls under the topic of if its not broke, don't fix it, either is better than c-clips.

[55 Tony]

At the two places I talked to about the ball vs tapered roller bearings, they both said the normally sell the ball to street/strip and the tapered rollers to offroad trucks. I would think that the forces applied to the bearings on a good launch would be greater than rock climbing. Or as I'm writing it comes to mind that a lot of off road trucks also have big wheel spacers and the forces from that would be a lot.

As far as lateral forces, in a hard turn the outside wheel would take a lot more of the load on the tapered bearing that is *working* in the direction.

I was unaware of ball bearings making a comeback. Is this in street cars? Or race cars looking to loose 0.0001 of a second on the track?

[markm]

I have been around a lot of drag cars in my time and they all have ball bearing. I am sure the comeback is due to the ridicules CAFE restrictions the Obummer EPA enacted.

[55 Tony]

I have been around a lot of drag cars in my time and they all have ball bearing. I am sure the comeback is due to the ridicules CAFE restrictions the Obummer EPA enacted.

As I've said many times before, I only go to the drag strip for fun. Sure it's cool to win a race, but like last Saturday, all I did was 5 runs during the tune and test. (or is that test and tune?) My car is STREET/strip. I didn't even go far last week on the road, but still the miles on it would be about 98% street and maybe, just maybe 2% strip.

[Rick_L]

I should clarify, the return to ball bearings has been for the front hubs. This is to lower the rolling resistance, indeed it's for the fuel mileage standards. Started way before Obama though, been happening for 20 years or so.

[55 Tony]

Well maybe I screwed up, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last.

[markm]

I should clarify, the return to ball bearings has been for the front hubs. This is to lower the rolling resistance, indeed it's for the fuel mileage standards. Started way before Obama though, been happening for 20 years or so.

Wouldn't the came apply to rear hubs on fwd cars, pretty sure most rwd stuff has c-clips on those few models.

[Rick_L]

Of course it would.

For some time now Corvettes have had a sealed front hub assembly with two ball bearings, factory preloaded and lubed. 2WD pickups have had them almost as long. But I'd guess that FWD cars have had that arrangement on the rear for much longer. These setups are not serviceable, you have to buy a new hub if there's a problem. And that's where the pain comes because they cost far more than tapered roller bearings.


And you're right, C-clip stuff has a non-tapered roller bearing. The c-clip is what takes the thrust load.

[chevynut]

A lot of unitized hubs are made with tapered roller bearings as far as I can tell. Timken makes a lot of them. I'm not sure what the OEM C4 stuff uses. I think SKF uses ball bearings quite a bit.

https://www.timken.com/products/timken-engineered-bearings/premium-wheel-hub-units/

[55 Tony]

And you're right, C-clip stuff has a non-tapered roller bearing. The c-clip is what takes the thrust load.

The c-clip one way and the center pin/shaft the other way right?