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Thread: Civil War in America

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevynut View Post
    I always wondered why the masses elect or hire people who are supposed to SERVE us, then give them total control over us. For example, I'm betting that lots of people, probably a majority, oppose speed limits that are placed on us in some areas. We have ridiculous speed limits some places that I believe are put in place as revenue generators. I don't believe the majority approve of continuously dropping the BA limit for a DUI until you can get arrested for just smelling a beer.....but they keep doing it We hire people to manage our forests and parks, then they lock us out and make stupid rules that we're expected to follow. Obama tried to block people from just LOOKING at our national parks when the government was supposedly "shut down". When I go into the mountains there are lots of nice places where I'm not allowed to camp, in an effort to force me into "campgrounds" where I have to pay a fee per night to just stay there. Who decided that picking up an arrowhead or a piece of pottery on a trail warrants a felony charge? There are thousands of examples of us being controlled, and I'll bet most people disagree with many of the rules. Why do we allow them to control us like that? Sure, someone has to make the rules but the rules don't seem to be consistent with what the majority believes is reasonable.
    Very well said, and it almost requires a very long winded reply so I'll leave it other than to say the term "incremental".
    One of my own favorites is why a person would have to pay 40+ thousand bucks to get a permit and permission to build a house for their family with monies earned by them and on land bought by them? That's crazy to me. How in the hell that came to be allowed by the people is far beyond my understanding.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidsguy View Post
    Very well said, and it almost requires a very long winded reply so I'll leave it other than to say the term "incremental".
    One of my own favorites is why a person would have to pay 40+ thousand bucks to get a permit and permission to build a house for their family with monies earned by them and on land bought by them? That's crazy to me. How in the hell that came to be allowed by the people is far beyond my understanding.
    That sounds like a blue state issue to me. That's why people are leaving there. Permits, taxes. money grabbing in blue states is obscene. Nephew was paying 10,000.00 in property tax in Illinois on a home he couldn't sell for the 235,000 he paid for it. That's crazy. California is losing tax paying citizens who are fed up with the taxes and costs. What will these people in these states do when the income producers are gone, and all they have are the welfare recipients they created?

  3. #13
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by busterwivell View Post
    That sounds like a blue state issue to me. That's why people are leaving there. Permits, taxes. money grabbing in blue states is obscene. Nephew was paying 10,000.00 in property tax in Illinois on a home he couldn't sell for the 235,000 he paid for it. That's crazy. California is losing tax paying citizens who are fed up with the taxes and costs. What will these people in these states do when the income producers are gone, and all they have are the welfare recipients they created?
    You really can't look at one tax individually in a state and compare it to other states. For example, I pay $3500 a year in property tax in Colorado on a home on 2.3 acres. State sales tax is $2.99% and state income tax is 4.65%. Social Security may be taxed by the state of CO for some people. I have to have emissions checked on my truck every year at a cost of $75 and each of my cars at a cost of $45. Then I pay out the nose for license plates every year....just my 12 foot utility trailer license is $85 a year! In Montana they have really low property taxes. You can buy a section of land (640 acres) and pay as little as $1000 a year in property tax, even with a house on it. Montana has no sales tax, but their state income tax is 6.9% on taxable income over $17,900 plus a lower amount under that income. Social Security can also be taxed based on income. Some cars you only have to license once, for life. There is no emissions testing and vehicle registration is cheap. And none of this takes into account the myriad of other taxes, fees, and other crap they get you for.

    You really need to look at the entire tax/fee picture. The states get their money somehow in the end. The only question is who pays for it and how much. It's another case of you being told what you owe with little input on how it's spent.
    Last edited by chevynut; 07-08-2018 at 06:04 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Cnut's point about looking at the big picture is good advice. All the things he listed vary wildly state by state and even locally.

    Since Trump's new federal income tax law limits federal deductions for property tax, state taxes (income and sales), and mortgage interest - that's going to make this stuff a moving target. I frequently hear on the news about people fleeing the high tax states. That's one thing, but they are moving to the low tax states - and when there's a financial pinch in those in the future, the newbies will have a lower threshold for giving in to higher state and local taxes. Already happening in CO, NV, AZ, etc.

  5. #15
    Registered Member scorpion1110's Avatar
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    This is a really good thread in that everyone is voicing their opinion on politics and keeping the dialogue on point. It makes for a very thoughtful read. So just a well done.

    I would say in response to RickL's point about a civil war, I was really thinking back to the days of collective bargaining non violent strikes and the change they truly effected. I wonder now about that. How many civil wars have we faced in addition to the big one. Maybe more than we thought.

    I still believe the the government is run deeply within, and our liberties and freedoms are what they decide we get. Oh and we pay for it; in hard currency and lost ideals.

    Its funny how less costs more eh?

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  6. #16
    Registered Member chevynut's Avatar
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    It's looking like Trump's SCOTUS pick might ignite a REAL civil war. Who would have thunk the "tolerant" and "peaceful" left was so full of hate and condoned violence?
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  7. #17
    Registered Member enigma57's Avatar
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    Regarding President Trump's nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court......

    Point well taken, Laszlo. Their selective outrage is scripted. They had their rebuttals and talking points and incitements to violence ready long before President Trump even chose his nominee for the Supreme Court. Their response would have been much the same no matter who he nominated. That's the way it is with the left.

    Predictably, they are now wringing their hands (scare tactics to energize their base) at the very thought their ability to fund the wholesale murder of thousands upon thousands of unborn children each year with your and my tax dollars might be in jeopardy. When in actuality were Roe VS Wade at some point overturned, matters regarding abortion would be turned back to each state to decide, as it was in years priour.

    And that the Socialist framework of Obamacare might unravel. As if the Supreme Court issues decisions at its discretion rather than acting only on legal matters brought before it by litigants having legal standing in those matters. So disingenuous.

    I was reflecting this evening on what a total disaster it would be had Hillary Clinton been elected and what our nation would be facing in the decades ahead had she been nominating Supreme Court Justices.

    We all have much to be grateful for,

    Harry
    'G-d Bless The U.S.A.'...... Lee Greenwood......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5aoptI5j0

  8. #18
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    I don't pretend to be an expert on Kavanaugh's background and tendencies, but he's probably the most palatable to the libs of the leading candidates that Trump considered. Maybe that was for a reason. He worked in the Bush white house, went to Yale, and supposedly wrote the argument that justice Roberts used to justify upholding Obamacare. So he could become a swing vote in a similar manner to Kennedy, Roberts, and O'Connor.

    But as said, he's NOT Hillary's pick, and that's so good.

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