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Thread: Question - Federal Mogul, Sealed Power or Elgin?

  1. #11
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    Had no idea that the 60s up 6's used BBC rockers. SBC rockers would be what I expected, since those engine's short blocks share a lot of components with SBCs. And I thought valve sizes too.

    Does this apply to 292s only, or all displacements of those engines?

  2. #12
    Registered Member BeachGirl55's Avatar
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  3. #13
    Registered Member enigma57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachGirl55 View Post
    I spent many hours behind a parts counter in a performance shop in my early years, unlike most I would spend my time when it was slow comparing parts and quality, like others have said Federal Mogul and Sealed Power are one in the same as was TRW before they went a different direction, Elgin was pure crap and I never understood why a lot of the old timers loved them so much, anyways I rambling, I took a bunch of rocker arms from all the companies we had in stock and laid them out on the counter and started checking them, the best ones I found were Pioneer (s1027) or Comp Cams (1211-1) which were so similar I believe they also came from same place in bulk, my personal choice was always Pioneer because of cost and quality over all the others, but I'm a girl so what do I know lol
    Thanks, BeachGirl55! I'll keep that in mind when I'm looking for parts to get this engine together. Mom and Dad had their own auto machine shop in Little Rock, Arkansas from the 1930s through WWII where they rebuilt engines. Mom did all the mic work and poured the babbited bearings. Till her dying day, she could quote from memory all the journal diameters and clearances of engines from the Model Ts through those built in the 1940s. When I built my first engine as a teenager, Dad had passed, Mom had remarried and we were living in an old farmhouse up in the Texas hill country. No electric and we had to haul water because the well was bad.

    Mom told me to use only 'the best'...... Federal Mogul bearings, Victor gaskets and Grant graphite coated rings. I did and my engine came out great. Had it in my car and running a few weeks before my 16th birthday. Had to do everything by hand. Very labour intensive when you're out in the boonies with no electric and very few hand tools.

    Best regards,

    Harry
    'G-d Bless The U.S.A.'...... Lee Greenwood......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5aoptI5j0

  4. #14
    Registered Member enigma57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_L View Post
    Had no idea that the 60s up 6's used BBC rockers. SBC rockers would be what I expected, since those engine's short blocks share a lot of components with SBCs. And I thought valve sizes too.

    Does this apply to 292s only, or all displacements of those engines?
    Well, in stock form, the 194/230/250 and 292 inline 6 engines all have pretty much the same head (except for the late model 250s that had an integral intake cast into the head and even those retained the same valve gear). There were several different combustion chamber sizes and in the '70s, hardened exhaust seats for unleaded gas but all use the same 1.72" / 1.50" valves, springs and retainers as the early 283s. The stock 6 cylinder rockers have the same 1.7 ratio as big block Chevy, except that they are set up with 3/8" pressed in rocker studs like an early small block.

    The usual upgrades involve adding either 1.84" 305 intake valves or 1.94" 327/350 valves and 1.6" exhaust valves. Except for the smaller bore 194, the 230/250 and 292 all share a 3.875" bore size, same as a 283 small block, so even 1.94" / 1.60" valves require unshrouding or they will not work as well as the smaller 305 intake valves. When pulling the pressed-in 3/8" studs and drilling/tapping the head for screw-in studs, the practice is to move up to 7/16" studs and matching big block rocker arms having same 1.7 ratio as the 6-cylinder items. There are a few other odd V-8 items that can interchange such as the newer Fel-Pro silicone 2-piece rear main seal. But most internal parts are unique to the 6's.

    The 194/230/250 inline 6 has same crank journal sizes as 265/283/327 small block. 292 is a strange animal, though....... Shares small main journal size with 194/230/250, but has larger 350 size rod journals and a 2" taller deck height with a 4.120" long stroke and a very long (and heavy) rod and piston combo in stock form. Big end of rods are wider than small block, as well. Anyway...... Suffice to say...... This build is a definite leaning experience for me. Even though they share a few interchangeable parts with the V-8's, these engines are a lot different to build than your typical small block V-8.

    Best regards,

    Harry
    Last edited by enigma57; 08-02-2018 at 04:21 AM.
    'G-d Bless The U.S.A.'...... Lee Greenwood......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5aoptI5j0

  5. #15
    Registered Member enigma57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma57 View Post
    So I want to run OEM style big block rockers on this engine. Got lucky this morning and after going through E-bay listings for several hours, stumbled upon on a set of 12 NOS GM big block long slot rockers with grooved balls and adjusting nuts on e-Bay for what amounts to $7.50 each and free shipping. Still new in GM boxes. I am on a tight budget, but I grabbed them up as soon as I saw them after seeing what else is available (other than the Federal Mogul, Sealed Power and Elgin NOS stuff from the '70s - early '80s, I found one nice set of 16 used GM H-stamped rockers (1970 and later high perf. big block) for 3 times what I paid for the NOS GM L-stamped rockers (1969 and earlier high perf. big block).
    Never a dull moment! Piecing together this engine continues to be both a learning experience and a scavenger hunt. Rec'd the NOS GM big block rockers today ordered from a seller on e-Bay. He shipped me (1) L-stamped rocker with grooved pivot ball (the one in the photo on his ad)...... And (11) M-stamped rockers with smooth pivot balls.

    All were in GM boxes having part number 6258611. So I dug around and found that whilst the L-stamped rockers are indeed for 1969 and earlier high perf. big block....... The M-stamped rockers are 1st design for 1965 to mid-1966 high perf. big block...... And GM kept the same part number for both the 1st and 2nd design rockers...... Apparently considering them to be interchangeable parts.

    So...... I went on a quest today and located a couple more NOS M-stamped rockers to round out the set and will keep the L-stamped rocker and extra M-stamped rocker as spares.

    Happy Motoring,

    Harry
    'G-d Bless The U.S.A.'...... Lee Greenwood......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5aoptI5j0

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