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  • chevynut
    Registered Member
    • Nov 2011
    • 11003

    #46
    Thanks for the feedback Paul. I just called Montana DOT and they're starting construction either Monday or Tuesday, the worst possible time for me. They said the delays should be no more than 15 minutes...I told him I can't handle any delays at all. There's usually not lot of traffic on Flesher Pass mid-day but if there is I'm in trouble. I wish they would delay til Wednesday.

    We talked about bringing the trucks over the pass dry and adding water locally which seems like a good solution but the concrete companies won't do that. I looked at the volume needed and it would be almost 300 gallons per truck, almost 4000 gallons for the whole project. I don't know if my well would even support that, and it would take somewhere around 20 minutes to fill each truck with water. Then what if my well went dry? It's a moot point anyway.

    This slab is so big that the first truck will not quite fill the footing on the east end. Every truck after that adds about 8 1/4 feet to the slab. We plan to bring two trucks together to get started, then a truck every 20 minutes, which Josh thinks is about the time it takes to empty a truck with the pump truck. If we need to break the slab into two pours, I would want to do it under the partition wall which is at 54 feet from the east end. We can only make it to about 40 feet across with the first company. I told Josh I'd rather not break it, and if we can get to the second company's trucks we should keep pouring. This is so damn stressful.

    I also finally got the preliminary SIP drawings from Premier, and they screwed up there too. They still have the upper level walls on them, and I told them a month ago I was deleting the upper level. So they knew about it for weeks and didn't correct it. I think their internal communication sucks. The also added an interior SIP partition wall for some odd reason, but I intend to frame that wall. So there's 11 SIP walls listed and I only need 4. I sent them an e-mail and talked to the project manager this morning, and told him I needed all of those walls completely deleted and only have 4 left. He hadn't even looked at my e-mail yet which I sent Tuesday. I need this design done because it takes 4 weeks after approval to get them manufactured, and I need to order trusses too.

    I've moved trailers out of the way for the concrete trucks and this whole thing is making me really nervous.
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

    Comment

    • chevynut
      Registered Member
      • Nov 2011
      • 11003

      #47
      Well I have been having huge reservations the past couple days about pouring this concrete and have actually been losing sleep over it. I had discussions with a few guys here in Lincoln about it this week and they've confirmed my fears. I talked to my builder and he said he had issues pouring a large slab in Great Falls and that this one is a tough job being so far away from Helena. A good friend of mine told me over dinner last night that he would NOT pour it in this weather, especially with all the other stuff going on. One guy I talked to today has done large commercial concrete projects all his life and did some Walmarts. When I explained my concerns to him, and what the project entailed, he said he wouldn't pour it Tuesday. He confirmed all of my concerns too.

      The construction on the pass WILL likely cause an issue, though there is a way around it coming over another pass which is actually shorter, but it's a dirt road for 24 miles or so. The construction should be done by mid-August. The forecast temperature Tuesday is 94 degrees, which is way too hot to pour and finish concrete. Josh scheduled two companies to bring the concrete, and this guy said he would never do that. One issue is timing, and the other is consistency of the concrete between them. He told me there is a company called Helena Sand and Gravel that he's used a lot and he thought they could do it in one shot. He was nice enough to contact them for me and confirmed that they could deliver 120 yards in one wave of trucks. But he also said that if I could put it off, I should wait for cooler weather.

      This guy also told me that we should start pouring at the crack of dawn. He poured a big slab here in town and he said they had their first load around 6AM and were finished pouring by 9 or 10 while it was still cool. It's getting into the high 50's by morning here. Josh couldn't get one company to commit to bringing anything before noon. That in itself tells me they're likely to be late which could be a disaster.

      I won't have my SIPs here until early September at best, based on my experience with their project manager and draftsman. I need new drawings, I have to approve them, send them a check for 40% of the project, then wait 4 weeks for them to be built and delivered.

      So the plan is to wait until the end of August when we come back to Montana. We have a wedding to attend August 25 in Seattle, and we will plan to pour after that. Josh is okay with that and he's actually relieved. He thought I was pushing him to get it done, which I wanted to do, but the conditions just aren't good. He said he'll finish all the rebar work and there's no problem letting it sit for a month. The guy I talked to also said he'd be willing to help if we need it, so Josh said that help is welcome. Now maybe I can sleep again.
      56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


      Other vehicles:

      56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
      56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
      57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
      1962 327/340HP Corvette
      1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
      2001 Porsche Boxster S
      2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
      2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

      Comment

      • BamaNomad
        Registered Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 3878

        #48
        Even in August it will be HOT, so getting it poured as early in the AM as possible will help (as it will for their finishing work). Do you have sufficient water available to try to keep the concrete wet while it sets up? Slowing the curing will help make it stronger and reduce cracks, although with an integrated slab that large you are likely to get cracks (possibly even while it's setting up the first day). Do you plan to put some stress-relief grooves in it? Or to pour it in sections with expansion joints between?

        Comment

        • chevynut
          Registered Member
          • Nov 2011
          • 11003

          #49
          Originally posted by BamaNomad
          Even in August it will be HOT, so getting it poured as early in the AM as possible will help (as it will for their finishing work). Do you have sufficient water available to try to keep the concrete wet while it sets up? Slowing the curing will help make it stronger and reduce cracks, although with an integrated slab that large you are likely to get cracks (possibly even while it's setting up the first day). Do you plan to put some stress-relief grooves in it? Or to pour it in sections with expansion joints between?
          Late August in Montana will be cooler than it is now up here. It's really cool in the mornings now and the forecast is showing a low of 49F on the 27th of July. So pouring early in the morning is definitely what I'm going to push for. I want all the concrete on the ground as fast as possible. I think Josh is over-estimating how long it takes to unload a truck. Yes we have a well close to the shop so water isn't a problem. Josh is going to saw the slab as soon as he can, and it's usually in about 100-150 square foot sections. No expansion joints planned, and typically they're not done on a monolithic slab. We have an 18" mesh of #3 fiberglass rebar in the top of the slab. #3 fiberglass is supposed to be as strong as #4 steel.
          56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


          Other vehicles:

          56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
          56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
          57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
          1962 327/340HP Corvette
          1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
          2001 Porsche Boxster S
          2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
          2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

          Comment

          • BamaNomad
            Registered Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 3878

            #50
            We did a pour 20 yrs ago when I built my home, of about 110 yds for my integrated basement slab with several 12" thick reinforced areas for support posts. The pour was completed and finished by lunch (or around 1 pm) - there were more than a dozen finishers working on it. They required the addition of 'accelerators' in the concrete over my objections (so they could finish faster). As soon as it was finished, I ran the 2 miles to my home at the time, had lunch and gathered up hoses/sprinklers/etc.. and ran back and hooked up hoses and sprinklers on the slab. Even by an hour after they finished, there were 'cracks' beginning to show up in the slab. I attribute the 'rapid cracks' to their use of accelerator in the concrete mix, as I've done slabs almost as large previous to that (although not integrated) without cracking even after 40 yrs up to now.

            For good concrete my opinion is NO accelerators and keep it wet forcing it to cure slowly - although that keeps the finishers on site for twice as long increasing your costs!

            Comment

            • chevynut
              Registered Member
              • Nov 2011
              • 11003

              #51
              Originally posted by BamaNomad
              For good concrete my opinion is NO accelerators and keep it wet forcing it to cure slowly - although that keeps the finishers on site for twice as long increasing your costs!
              We're actually going to use Delvo in the concrete, which puts the concrete "to sleep" and slows the cure time, as I understand it. Because it's probably close to an hour and 45 minutes travel time, we need to do that. Cooler weather will help slow it too, I don't know why finishers need to stay any longer once they're done but that's fine with me if they do. I just want this done right.
              56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


              Other vehicles:

              56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
              56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
              57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
              1962 327/340HP Corvette
              1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
              2001 Porsche Boxster S
              2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
              2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

              Comment

              • WagonCrazy
                Registered Member
                • Mar 2012
                • 1865

                #52
                Good move Laszlo. You heeded the advice of several guys who do this for a living in that area. You only get one chance with a concrete pour. So all the planets need to align correctly or the risk of an issue goes up exponentially. Life is short, but waiting is your better option I think too.
                1957 Nomad- LS1/T56 on C4 chassis
                1959 Fleetside Apache 1/2 ton, shortbed, big window, 327ci.

                Comment

                • chevynut
                  Registered Member
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 11003

                  #53
                  Well we finally did it. We got to Lincoln a week ago and then flew to Seattle for a wedding for a few days. We came back and I got the two concrete guys together to discuss details and make sure nothing fell through the cracks. Striker ordered the concrete since he's worked with the company a lot. Josh ordered the pump truck. I told them I figured 115 yards of concrete for the shop.

                  Josh and his crew were supposed to finish the rebar and prep while we were in Seattle last week, but he then told me he wasn't coming over until Monday when we met with Striker. They got there around 2PM and worked a couple of hours. When they left he said they'd be back Wednesday around noon. We were scheduled to pour on Thursday at 7AM. He finally showed up at around 2PM which was making me really nervous about Thursday. Somehow my floor drain broke and I had to fix it. Josh left and said he'd be there at 6 to get the final details worked out.

                  Anyhow, I was up at 3:30AM Thursday and couldn't get back to sleep. I finally got out of bed at 5:30 and went outside to move a trailer and stuff out of the way. Striker and his son showed up at 6:30 and Josh came rolling in a little later (he's always late). I'm nervous as hell and these guys are laid back...LOL.

                  The pump truck is nowhere to be found, and two concrete trucks roll up at 7AM. They poured some of the footing and unloaded those trucks. Then another truck came, and they dumped that one. I think the pump truck showed up around the fourth concrete truck and set up. Finally they were able to get things rolling.

                  I didn't know it, but Striker figured the slab at 130 yards, and josh got 138 according to Striker. I calculated 115. We planned to order around 5 yards extra, which seemed like a lot to me (over $1000 worth). So I thought we were getting 120 yards. I told them I wanted to set up for pouring an extension on my garage apron just in case we had extra concrete. I excavated it and josh formed it, and I figured around 6 yards were needed. We planned to just pour part of it if we didn't have enough concrete for all of it.

                  To do this job they had to pull trucks up from Anaconda Montana. I didn't realize it, but they actually had to turn one truck around for a second load.

                  We poured 11 loads and were almost finished except one corner of the shop that i thought might be 3 yards. I put in all the anchor bolts so if they're wrong it's my fault. We waited, and waited, and finally that last truck showed up so we poured that. They went over to the garage and started pouring it, and I was hoping there was enough to finish it. They poured it all and the driver estimated around 1/2 yard left in the truck.

                  Luckily, Striker was able to cancel the last truck he ordered (he ordered 130 yards) at the last minute or I would have ended up paying for it with nowhere to dump it.

                  In the end, we poured 119 yards with 6 at the garage making the shop about 113. I was pretty close. But I'm glad we had extra because I wanted to extend the driveway apron anyhow.

                  Here's the final results....

                  IMG_8070.jpg

                  IMG_8072.jpg

                  IMG_8071.jpg
                  Last edited by chevynut; 08-30-2024, 08:32 AM.
                  56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                  Other vehicles:

                  56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                  56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                  57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                  1962 327/340HP Corvette
                  1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                  2001 Porsche Boxster S
                  2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                  2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                  Comment

                  • chevynut
                    Registered Member
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 11003

                    #54
                    Here's a picture during pouring that I'm just posting to try the new upload method.

                    IMG_8068.jpg
                    Attached Files
                    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                    Other vehicles:

                    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                    1962 327/340HP Corvette
                    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                    2001 Porsche Boxster S
                    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                    Comment

                    • Belair-o
                      Registered Member
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 643

                      #55
                      That was quite an undertaking, stress to the max - glad it all worked out!
                      Regards, Doug

                      Comment

                      • BamaNomad
                        Registered Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 3878

                        #56
                        Your slab looks great, CN... Are you happy with it??

                        Comment

                        • chevynut
                          Registered Member
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 11003

                          #57
                          Originally posted by BamaNomad
                          Your slab looks great, CN... Are you happy with it??
                          I'm happy it's done for sure! It looks really flat and smooth and I think everything went well. It was a helluva lot of concrete. My builder is wanting to get started but I just signed off on the SIP design early this week and they still haven't told me when they'll ship. The SIP project manager is an idiot and what was supposed to be a 4 week design process turned into 15 weeks. His communication sucks and I don't think he pays attention, just shuffles things around. So I don't know if we're going to erect this thing before winter now.
                          56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                          Other vehicles:

                          56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                          56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                          57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                          1962 327/340HP Corvette
                          1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                          2001 Porsche Boxster S
                          2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                          2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                          Comment

                          • BamaNomad
                            Registered Member
                            • Nov 2016
                            • 3878

                            #58
                            Maybe the man will surprise you and get it done promptly now that you're waiting for it.. Good luck!

                            Comment

                            • WagonCrazy
                              Registered Member
                              • Mar 2012
                              • 1865

                              #59
                              I bet you've slept good the last 2 nights since the mud is in the ground now.
                              1957 Nomad- LS1/T56 on C4 chassis
                              1959 Fleetside Apache 1/2 ton, shortbed, big window, 327ci.

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