Master cylinder

[seant]

Hello everyone. I know this question has been asked a lot,but Ithis is my first attempt to build a car. I have a 56 Bel Air and need opinions on what master cylinder to use. I have to stay with drum brakes and don't have money for a power brake system. Would like to use newer than the old 56 stock cylinder. Thanks for your help

[markm]

If you are staying with drums and want to upgrade to a dual master I would consider a late 60s full size Chevy without PB.

[JT56]

If you are staying with drums and want to upgrade to a dual master I would consider a late 60s full size Chevy without PB.

Should have a 1" bore on the mastercylinder too.

[5Clint7]

67-69 Chevelle, Nova & Camaro Drum – Drum master cyl. Direct bolt on, on two bottom bolts. The rear port (9/16-18) goes to the front brakes. The front port (1/2-20) goes to the rear brakes.
For drum brakes you need 10 psi residual valves in both ports.
Raybestos Master Cyl. Drum-Drum Part # MC36233
Bendix Master Cyl. Drum-Drum Part # 11505
Advance Auto Master Cyl Drum-Drum # 10-1505 $14.95
Non power brake M/C 15/16 or 1” bore
The 1/2"-20 is the "standard" thread size for a 5/16" inverted flare connection. Just ask for a 5/16"-1/4" adapter (Weatherhead part #7829)
The 9/16"-18 to 1/4" is a little more of an oddball, but most NAPA stores carry it (Weatherhead part #7908).
5/16”-3/16” adapter ( Weatherhead part # 7909)
Weatherhead 7908 = Edelmann 258403 Everco 7833 Imperial 90171= 9/16-18 Thread ¼ tube
Weatherhead 7829 = Edelmann 258450 Everco 7832 Imperial 90173 = ½-20 Thread ¼ tube
Weatherhead 7909 = Edelmann 258350 Imperial 90170 = 1/2-20 Thread 3/16 tube
Weatherhead 7897 Imperial 90161 = ½-20 Thread 3/16 tube
Weatherhead 7911= Edelmann 258302 Imperial 90162 = 9/16-18 Thread 3/16 tube

[warren57]

Hello everyone. I know this question has been asked a lot,but Ithis is my first attempt to build a car. I have a 56 Bel Air and need opinions on what master cylinder to use. I have to stay with drum brakes and don't have money for a power brake system. Would like to use newer than the old 56 stock cylinder. Thanks for your help

seant,
My 57 had a dual manual cylinder (disk/drum) when I got the car (rear mount calipers). I upgraded (well maybe an upgrade!) to a power unit and installed a new disk assembly with front mount calipers... I still have the old cylinder and the front disk conversion stuff (except I tossed the rotors they are cheap at NAPA).
They are yours for free if you want to pay shipping from Denver, CO.
Let me know.... that offer goes for any of our members here.
Warren

[Eds56]

Hello All,

I hope it's okay to just add questions to this thread......rather than starting a new one. As most of my concerns are already answered here.

I also have a 56 BA, that currently has 4 wheel manual drum brakes. For safety reasons, i too would like to change to a dual master cylinder. I will likely use the one from Advance (# 10-1505), as suggested in the earlier post from 5clint7 (thank you for the list).

Hope i'm correct on this, but the task seems to be ---- install new dual MC, adapt / connect existing brake line to rear port of MC for front brakes, connect new line to other port of MC and route over to the passenger side frame and adapt / connect to the existing line to going to rear brakes, plug / cap the (now open) hole in existing junction block @ passenger frame (which is now for front brakes only). Bleed brakes and enjoy!

Now for my questions--

Probably a dumb ? but gotta ask ----- the 10psi residual valves?? is this made into the suggested MC or something else to purchase? in other words, NO separate proportion valve needed ??
what size and length of brake line do i need to run from MC to passenger side rear brake connection (near junction block)?
Is there any benifit to a dual MC (Other than safety) ---- such as better braking??
Are any changes needed on the rod that connects from MC to brake pedal?


Thanks in advance & have a Blessed day,
Ed

[Rick_L]

The residual valve is SUPPOSED to be built in to the master cylinder for the applications suggested. In many brands it's not. To check, probe the outlet ports with the blank end of a small drill bit. If you feel a rubber part directly under the brass cone seat for the line, that's the residual valve. If the drill bit goes in a long way and you feel metal, it's not there. A Raybestos MK472 rebuild kit has them, and can be used to add them to any m/c without them.

You don't need a proportioning valve, but I would highly recommend a brake line distribution block for a 67 Camaro/Chevelle/Nova. This has a shuttle valve that blocks fluid to one end of the system if that end has a big leak. You don't absolutely have to have this, but you will have a higher pedal and a better chance of stopping if one end of the system ever fails.

The size of the line can be either 3/16" or 1/4". Choose the size that fits what you are trying to connect up. This minimizes extra adapters.

There is no other benefit to a dual master cylinder. Normal stopping will be unaffected.

The recommended master cylinder will work with the stock pushrod.

[Troy]

Wow 5Clint7 thanks for this info!!! I've been wanting to do this conversion to my '55 for a while, now I have no excuse.

[Eds56]

Thank You Rick,

Very useful info & i appreciate it.

I think making this change would be an improvement over what i have currently......Ultimately, i really want to add power brakes at some point. But will cross that bridge later.

[5Clint7]

My master cyl. Didn’t have the proportional valves. I bought the Raybestos MK472 kit at Amazon. Use the 2 self-taping screws supplied in the kit to remove the 2 brass inserts. Put a flat washer over the port and put the screw thru the hole in the washer into the insert.This will pull out the insert. Install the springs and rubber valves. To install the new inserts , use a flare nut of the appropriate size to press in the inserts.
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4833&d=1440379480
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4834&d=1440379482

[Eds56]

Excellent Info,

Thank you 5Clint7 for the pic & instructions.

[Eds56]

Hello All,

I'm about ready to start the Brake project and need a little more advise. My goal for my 56 chevy, running 15"x7" Rally rims, is to upgrade to the dual Master Cylinder with front disc (zero to minimum off-set) brakes. And after a TON!!! of time spent online reading what others have dealt with, i "think" the following will be best for me.
1.) upgrade to dual MC with resid. valve -- per the advise received earlier in this thread. Thanks again
2.) Add 79--81 rear Trans Am rotors to the front. Note: i already upgraded the hubs / bearings to 68 Impalla full size a while back.
3.) Add Large single piston Calipers that use D52 pads. I think this is maybe from a 72 Chevelle or Camaro???
4.) install matching / correct brake lines and fittings --- per the advise received earlier in this thread.
5.) Now for my problem..... The 2-pc caliper mounting brackets, which supposedly do not mess with the steering. ANY idea where i can buy just these separately? or of another other model i can use to make my own??
6.) Lastly, i would love to just be able to purchase this kit from Mgchevyparts ..... BUT the money isn't there at the moment and i happen to have access to most of the other parts needed anyways. Who knows maybe i'll win the lottery and things will be different tomorrow (yeah right)....LOL.


Thanks for taking time to read it.

[Rick_L]

Ed, just how much $ gap is there? What do you think those brackets are worth?

Do you have some of the parts already?

The brackets are going to be custom.

[Eds56]

Rick_L -- I suspected these might be custom brackets, therefore really have no idea what they are worth. I have seen some brackets listed around $75.00 & up range but not the 2-pc style. I did ask vendor but they do NOT sell just the bracket kit.

In my case, a friend owes me (not gonna get my money so may take parts) and he has the calipers /pads / rubber hoses & the rotors are a local pick up, so I have access to all the parts, except brackets. No I do NOT have them already.

I really would prefer to just purchase the kit and move on, but that's 385 + 81 shipping = 466 VS. around 200 + bracket--?

I know it doesn't seem like much $ and it will likely be a big headache......But I'm a single parent with a college kid & Money is tight. In an effort to raise more funds I have some other items for sale locally....maybe the money will surface before a bracket solution does.

Have a good day.

[royk]

Hello All,

I'm about ready to start the Brake project and need a little more advise. My goal for my 56 chevy, running 15"x7" Rally rims, is to upgrade to the dual Master Cylinder with front disc (zero to minimum off-set) brakes. And after a TON!!! of time spent online reading what others have dealt with, i "think" the following will be best for me.
1.) upgrade to dual MC with resid. valve -- per the advise received earlier in this thread. Thanks again
2.) Add 79--81 rear Trans Am rotors to the front. Note: i already upgraded the hubs / bearings to 68 Impalla full size a while back.
3.) Add Large single piston Calipers that use D52 pads. I think this is maybe from a 72 Chevelle or Camaro???
4.) install matching / correct brake lines and fittings --- per the advise received earlier in this thread.
5.) Now for my problem..... The 2-pc caliper mounting brackets, which supposedly do not mess with the steering. ANY idea where i can buy just these separately? or of another other model i can use to make my own??
6.) Lastly, i would love to just be able to purchase this kit from Mgchevyparts ..... BUT the money isn't there at the moment and i happen to have access to most of the other parts needed anyways. Who knows maybe i'll win the lottery and things will be different tomorrow (yeah right)....LOL.


Thanks for taking time to read it.

That is the brake set up I recently installed on my 55 the brackets I used came from CCP off Ebay for around $65

[markm]

If a person is on a budget like I was 20 years ago, using free 70 Chevelle roters with CCI brackets was the way to go. I don't buy in to the whole zero offset thing as necessary on 55/56.

[chevynut]

I don't buy in to the whole zero offset thing as necessary on 55/56.

Well you don't buy into lowered cars either, or you would understand the zero offset thing. ;)

It's actually not necessary to go zero offset, but if you don't you have to compensate with wheel offset. The Chevelle rotors move the wheel mounting surfaces out about 7/8" per side.

[chevynut]

royk, if I understand correctly you are trying to mount 70's Chevelle rotors and calipers on your car? I have a pair of adapter brackets I made back in the 70's that I'd give you for the cost of shipping them. They're modified Chevelle brackets and go with some slightly modified steering arms I machined back then to account for the bracket thickness. I have the calipers too if you want them but I sold the original Chevelle/Camaro 2-piece rotors I had. I have no use for them. I'll post pics of the brackets if you want.

[chevynut]

Well you can forget about the steering arms. I must have just taken them to the metal scrap place with my last load. It never fails...I keep something for decades, and right when I throw it away I have a use for it or someone else wants it. :(

If you use my adapters you would have to have the rear bosses on the steering arms milled down 1/4". It doesn't affect the strength of the steering arms and is a simple machining procedure. I suppose if you're good with a grinder that would work too. ;)

[royk]

Chevynut I have already installed the disc set up on the front with the 65-68 hubs, 81 trans am rotors, gm calipers, caliper brackets are what I purchased from CCP all it moves the wheel mounting surface out is the difference of the rotor vs the drum stock steering arms. Manual 1" master cylinder with a proportioning valve Works really well

[chevynut]

sorry royk, my post was meant for Eds56 since he was looking for brackets. I might be mistaken but I thought he was trying to use some Chevelle brake parts. Now I see he's trying to do something a little different. Oh well. :(

[Eds56]

Chevynut I have already installed the disc set up on the front with the 65-68 hubs, 81 trans am rotors, gm calipers, caliper brackets are what I purchased from CCP all it moves the wheel mounting surface out is the difference of the rotor vs the drum stock steering arms. Manual 1" master cylinder with a proportioning valve Works really well

2 questions royk---- 1.) are your calipers the large single style for D52 pads? 2.) was this a 2 piece bracket? i looked at cpp earlier and only found the 1 piece (but i was on lunch break and had to rush...maybe i over looked it)

ChevyNut--- I completely agree with you on the "keep something for decades and then it's needed" ---- as for your brackets, does it sound like something that i can make work?

Markm -- I thought about doing a mock up & trying to space my wheels out 7/8" and see if it rubs or anything, just so i would know. But that wouldn't account for turning into steep driveways, etc...

[royk]

Just got home looked up the part # for the brackets CPP 5558DBK-L they are 2 piece with no problem fitting with my set up . Calipers are for 1972 monte carlo so they should accept the D52 pads,
full size single piston.

[chevynut]

Just got home looked up the part # for the brackets CPP 5558DBK-L

Per CPP:

"CPP’s new caliper bracket kits for 1955- 1964 stock spindles and Chevelle 11” rotors with large GM calipers like those found on Chevy fullsize cars and trucks. Get the best stopping power for your classic Chevy with GM’s large 2-15/16” bore calipers. These kits will move the wheels out 7/8” per side from stock drum brakes on a 1955-58 and 1-1/16” on 1959-64 cars. All brackets and hardware included. (Note: Upgraded rotors and hoses available for additional costs.)

Sounds like the Monte Carlo brakes are the same as the Chevelle. Eds56, if you want to see my brackets I can post pics but I posted pics of the setup below. Like I said, they will need the steering arms modified since I apparently pitched them. There were no kits available when I did this.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4868&stc=1 http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4869&stc=1

[Eds56]

Thank you for the info royk & CN

Question : I thought the rotor was what pushed the wheels out 7/8"? not the bracket. Sorry not trying to be difficult, i just want to better understand. As in the case of the Trans Am rotors (2pc) there should not be 7/8" off set issue.....but clearly on the bracket info page, it states otherwise....but it also shows them being installed with a one piece rotor set up.

[royk]

Those bracket did not move my wheel mounting surface out 7/8" it is the rotor that moves it out.

[royk]

Pictures of mine

[markm]

The roters in pictures above by Cnut are not Chevelle/Monte Carlo, they are a two piece 67/68 Camaro roter that is necessary to clear their leak prone four piston calipers. Monte and Chevelle roters are identical. I believe them same as Chevelle one piece.

As far as clearance goes when using 15 inch rally's and 225/70/15s I ran my 56 that way for 20 years and never experienced tire rub. No longer run rally's but still run that size tire.

[royk]

those are 65-68 full size hubs with the trans am rear brake rotor on them

[markm]

those are 65-68 full size hubs with the trans am rear brake rotor on them

You are not Cnut.

[Eds56]

Manual 1" master cylinder with a proportioning valve Works really well

Royk---- what model did you use for master cylinder Selection? Just to confirm, this is for manual front disc set up & does it have a residual valve for rear drums?? Thanks for posting the pics, that helps me a lot and it appears I'm trying to do the same set up.

the boss is coming..... Gotta get back to work....lol

[royk]

Sorry didn't see that you were referring to his pictures.

[royk]

I used the RSF-DBMC04C Chrome 1" bore and RSF-PV71 Proportioning that I purchased from Woody's { Corvette style m/c} With that I did not add a residual valve and brakes work great and have a good pedal and feel Drove around @ Bowling Green with no problems that was actually the first time I'd drove it much and was very satisfied with this set up.

[chevynut]

The roters in pictures above by Cnut are not Chevelle/Monte Carlo, they are a two piece 67/68 Camaro roter that is necessary to clear their leak prone four piston calipers. Monte and Chevelle roters are identical. I believe them same as Chevelle one piece.

I beg to differ. I bought these with a front sub-frame either from a Nova or Camaro, but they came with the single piston calipers shown. I researched the application when I was selling them and posted findings here.

Here's what you said in that thread:

"My 70 SS396 Chevelle had two pirce roters, it had std D52 brakes and was not new when I got it. I scored a pair off a 74 Nova I junked also, actually I have seen quite a few on D52 applications. Always figured they continued to use two piece on some cars after advent of single piston calipers. I actually converted my 67 SS 350 to D52 stuff because 4 piston stuff sucks. "

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/2159-2-piece-original-late-60-s-brake-rotors?highlight=rotors

Here's the repops and their application, including Chevelles:

http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/21960/Camaro-Disc-brake-rotor-2-piece-USA-1967-1968-1969-1970-1971-1972/

Anyhow, whether two-piece or one-piece the rotor offset is the same at the WMS. I don't know where the braking surface sits relative to the spindle, and that's what determines if the caliper bracket will work. The WMS offset is irrelevant to the brake bracket alignment.

[bobbybelair]

The residual valve is SUPPOSED to be built in to the master cylinder for the applications suggested. In many brands it's not. To check, probe the outlet ports with the blank end of a small drill bit. If you feel a rubber part directly under the brass cone seat for the line, that's the residual valve. If the drill bit goes in a long way and you feel metal, it's not there. A Raybestos MK472 rebuild kit has them, and can be used to add them to any m/c without them.

You don't need a proportioning valve, but I would highly recommend a brake line distribution block for a 67 Camaro/Chevelle/Nova. This has a shuttle valve that blocks fluid to one end of the system if that end has a big leak. You don't absolutely have to have this, but you will have a higher pedal and a better chance of stopping if one end of the system ever fails.

The size of the line can be either 3/16" or 1/4". Choose the size that fits what you are trying to connect up. This minimizes extra adapters.

There is no other benefit to a dual master cylinder. Normal stopping will be unaffected.

The recommended master cylinder will work with the stock pushrod.


I used a small drill bit and it went in quite far, like an inch, without hitting anything in my Raybestos MC36233.
Looks like I need the residual valves kit. As far as the brake line distribution block for drum drum, would something like this be the correct one? It doesn't specify drum drum application.
http://www.camarocentral.com/1967_1969_Camaro_Brake_Splitter_Distribution_Blo_p/brc-107k.htm

[Rick_L]

Bobby, yes that's the correct distribution block.

[bobbybelair]

Thanks Rick. Now I just need to order the residual kit and dist block, and then set about finding more reasons to never get the dual master on the old car.

[Eds56]

67-69 Chevelle, Nova & Camaro Drum – Drum master cyl. Direct bolt on, on two bottom bolts. The rear port (9/16-18) goes to the front brakes. The front port (1/2-20) goes to the rear brakes.
For drum brakes you need 10 psi residual valves in both ports.
Raybestos Master Cyl. Drum-Drum Part # MC36233
Bendix Master Cyl. Drum-Drum Part # 11505
Advance Auto Master Cyl Drum-Drum # 10-1505 $14.95
Non power brake M/C 15/16 or 1” bore


As I understand it..... Manual Drum -OR- Manual Disc brakes use a 1" or smaller bore manual MC (such as listed). The MC chamber for Drum brakes (front or rear) should have residual valve, if not there this can be added as outlined @ post #10. A distribution block is suggested but not mandatory (post #7). In my case, I plan to run front manual disc & rear drum brakes with 1" bore MC (prob.68chevell type), such as or similar to what's listed above.

My Question, later on when (& if at all) I decide to upgrade to POWER disc.....is the Booster, MC and addition of proportion valve all that will be needed at that point??

[bobbybelair]

I believe that is the case. Not sure if you will need the distribution block at that point. One reason I still favour manual brakes is the simplicity of not having vacuum issues that seem to occur, depending on your engine setup.

[chevynut]

If you have a power steering pump, I personally think the Hydroboost is the best power booster setup. No vacuum issues to deal with, smaller size, and great braking performance.

I thought that there was a pedal travel issue with the large single piston calipers and a 1" master cylinder. Does moving the pushrod down on the pedal solve that? Seems like it defeats the purpose of the 1" MC.

[Rick_L]

Cnut, the 60s/70s OEM systems with discs (either the big single piston calipers or the 4 piston calipers) typically use a 1" master cylinder with a 6:1 or so pedal ratio. (6:1 is the stock 55-57 pedal ratio.) Changing to the 4:1 ratio you get with moving the clevis attachment is going to give you a requirement for more pedal force - it would be the same as a boosted system with a dead booster - and that would be unacceptable to most if not all people. But you're right about the stroke. Over the years we've become used to braking systems with almost no stroke required, and very, very few new cars have a manual unboosted brake system.

Now with boost, and particularly hydroboost, you probably want a bigger master cylinder and possibly reduced pedal ratio, because hydroboost can have a lot of boost.

Master cylinder size is all about the feel of the system, and what the piston area is in the front calipers.

[markm]

My 72 Cheyenne Super was born without power assist, I converted it to power about 25 years ago and have never regretted the swap. Really have not felt the need on 55 or 56, probably because they do not pull trailers. Rick is correct I have not seen manual brakes on a new car since Jimmy was screwing the country up.

[Eds56]

If you have a power steering pump, I personally think the Hydroboost is the best power booster setup. No vacuum issues to deal with, smaller size, and great braking performance.

I do not have power steering at this time, but will likely be considering it later on. If and when i do, i'll look more into Hydroboost.

So i'm clear, I do NOT need a proportioning valve with front manual disc brakes.....correct?

[Eds56]

And from what i have read...... YES Hydroboost would be the way to go for me, when i get to that point. I esp. like the no vacuum issues and appears to be a great performer. Thanks for the suggestion CN

[bobbybelair]

I do not have power steering at this time, but will likely be considering it later on. If and when i do, i'll look more into Hydroboost.

So i'm clear, I do NOT need a proportioning valve with front manual disc brakes.....correct?

I always thought a proportioning valve was a good idea for front disc rear drum, manual or power?

[Rick_L]

Bobby is right, it doesn't matter whether you have a booster or not.

[Eds56]

I always thought a proportioning valve was a good idea for front disc rear drum, manual or power?

Thanks Rick & Bobby..... i must admit, that i was hoping it was only mandatory on the boosted version :(, oh well ...guess i'll check for a compete ready made 1" Manual MC kit with matched prop valve & bracket all in a set. It appears i can get that way cheaper online than at my local parts supply.

Thanks to ALL who have added input in this thread, it HAS helped this old man.

[Rick_L]

Ed you're putting "must have" and "mandatory" in your posts on this. I would not go so far as to say those things - but you will not find an OEM system with discs that doesn't have a prop valve.

You're on the right track on sourcing the valve - it's not an item that is commonly found at a parts store.

[Eds56]

Thanks Rick

CPP just hooked me up with a 1" bore dual MC with the prop valve and bracket, should have it in a week or so.
Going to look at friends rotor / calipers next week to see if he really has what he says he does. MAN, i AM so ready to get this project completed.

[Eds56]

Hello All,

In the process of gathering up all the parts for this and noticed the following--

There seems to be 2 versions of the Large bore (2.935") Calipers. The 18-4039 (69-72 models) --&-- 18-4059 (70--76 models). the best i can tell, the difference seems to be related to the location of the hose connection area, making the 18-4059 appear WIDER. Which of these two is the preferred? and or does it matter?

[Rick_L]

You are correct, the hose port is the difference.

Usually the earlier pieces are preferred.

[Eds56]

A Raybestos MK472 rebuild kit has them, and can be used to add them to any m/c without them.


Will one of the external (in-line type) 10psi residual valves work just as good? The reason I ask, Is if I go with this type now then later on when I switch to Power booster with 1 1/8" bore MC, i'll not have to revisit this issue. Sounds like they do the same thing, just double checking.

[Rick_L]

You're correct, either way will work.

[slowfinger]

Rick, While we're on the subject of brakes. Who makes the pre bent brake line kit for restorations?

[Rick_L]

Slowfinger, I'm not the guy to ask. There are many sources for pre bent tubing, and I'm sure they are not all created equally. But I have no recommendations, as my needs are for custom bent tubing, and I take care of that myself.

[bobbybelair]

Will one of the external (in-line type) 10psi residual valves work just as good? The reason I ask, Is if I go with this type now then later on when I switch to Power booster with 1 1/8" bore MC, i'll not have to revisit this issue. Sounds like they do the same thing, just double checking.

I think you would only want the residual valve in the drum line, not sure if it is a good idea in the front disc brake line as it can keep the pads against the rotor? I'm not 100% sure on that though.

[Rick_L]

I think you would only want the residual valve in the drum line, not sure if it is a good idea in the front disc brake line as it can keep the pads against the rotor? I'm not 100% sure on that though.

You do not want a residual valve in a disc brake line, unless the master cylinder is below the calipers, in which case you'd want a 2 psi valve not a 10 psi valve.

[Eds56]

Finally got all my parts and have installed as listed below.
1.) 81 Rear Trans Am rotors -- 22.00ea ebay
2.) Calipers for 72 Chevy Bel Air 18-4035 & 4036 ----13.99ea @ AdvanceAuto
3.) Rubber Brake Hose for 72 Chevelle -- BH73242-- 9.99ea
4.) Already had new hubs / bearings ---- So removed 68 Impalla hubs & had the OD & lead in center machined down (est. 0.1000") to fit the 81 Rear Trans Am rotors. FREE
5.) Replaced stock lug Studs with longer ones. I used Dorman 610.259 which are 1.750" long. --- 16.85 for set of 10 off Ebay.
6.) Order disc brake bracket kit from Perforamance Online Parts @ 109.00 ----- the same bracket set was 129. from CPP. Both OVER Priced in my opinion, as these were a mere 60.00 not too long ago. SO this cost was the hardest to swallow, considering that the brackets have to be "massaged to fit"
7.) All in all this was still cheaper than the ready made kit which totals $480.00 (including shipping).
8.) Plan jane Brake Pads -- these were FREE --- Old stock --- open box from friend at part store and THIS may be contributing to a problem i'm having.....which i will get to later ( i need to re-bleed and go over everything before jumping the gun...bottom line, i do NOT LIKE my pedal,,,,seems soft and or spongy, which i hope is only air).

In addition to the above, CPP hooked me up with a Corvette Style 1" bore Dual Master Cyclinder kit with Proportion valve and mounting Bracket for less than $90.00 I then purchased a 5ft piece of 1/4" brake line and the needed fittings (as outlined on page 1), connected the existing line to the front port on prop valve (had to use 1/4" adapter).... then connected the 5ft piece to the rear port and routed it over to passenger side frame, plugged now open T-connection and connected the new line to the existing line with 3/16 to 1/4 adapter and union.

SORRY for the long post......... But, I hope this helps the next person, by having it all listed in one spot.http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5068&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5069&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5070&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5071&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5072&stc=1

[chevynut]

Nice job Ed! I doubt the soft pedal has anything to do with the pads.

[Rick_L]

I agree with Cnut on the soft pedal, it's not the pads.

What kind of "massaging" did you have to do?

[Eds56]

Thanks CNut & Rick,

The "massaging" involved cleaning up the mounting holes with a good file, a little grinding on the backside of spindle (where top bolt mounts) as the weld was holding it off slightly and a little sanding on the back side of the main bracket near the bottom...... basically the holes were slightly off and one of the bracket welds was holding it off from aligning good, i just dressed it up for a smooth well aligned mount and made sure nothing was binding as i tightened everything up evenly.

The deal with the B. pads is i don't know for sure what type they are. No box...no paper work but clearly D52 and fit just as they should. I was just afraid that with them being really OLD... plus there probably "El Cheapos". I've read previously that good quality pads can make a difference.

Next step will be to Re-Bleed and i'll try to do that tomorrow afternoon, if my helper is here when i get in from work.

Also, the pedal rod to MC is set so that IF i slightly pull up on the pedal then the clevis pin area clearly rattles..... but otherwise no rattle. Basically, i can remove the pin and put it back in by hand, But......Should i back this off a little more?

[Rick_L]

If the clevis pin rattles when the pedal arm is on the stop, that's what you want. If the arm is not on the stop, that's bad. In the other direction, you don't want preload.

Not sure by what you mean "if I pull up on the pedal". You shouldn't have to pull up on the pedal, it should go to the stop by itself.

A cheap pad should work just fine when new. Then wear out fast or degrade in performance sooner than a quality pad. You also need to break in a new pad correctly. Make some soft stops from less than 30 mph and see what else might need attention. (Like bleeding.) After that, make 2-3 moderate stops from 50 mph. If all goes well, then make 2-3 heavy stops from 60-70 mph. Allow 2-3 minutes between these stops so that you create heat without overheating. Recommendations on this may vary, but what you want to do is to increase the heat incrementally and avoid overheating. Cheap pads will usually "break in" more quickly than a quality pad if they are soft (usually are).

[Eds56]

Thanks Rick,

The pedal does rest on the rubber bump stop by itself but i do NOT have much rattle unless i pull up on the pedal a little. However, I can remove the clevis pin from the rod as it is, i thought that may have been close enough. Sounds like i'm close but may need to back it off 1/2 a thread or so.

I've only had her out for One quick test run therefore And I'm probably NOT describing my concern very well. Perhaps Soft isn't the right word....maybe it's more spongy. On first pump, the pedal travels about 1/3 to 1/2 of its total stroke and just feels soft. by the way, it does NOT go all the way to the floor (which is good).

All i know is, in that one test run, my first impression was "what the crap!! this is worse than the drum brakes" It just seemed to be slow to re-act. Example: @ about 40mph, while coasting in neutral on level pavement, hit the brakes one time and held steady pressure (very firmly) it took 5 or 6 seconds to come to a stop. Does not lock up either. Now If i pumped them then it seemed a little better.

[Rick_L]

Ed it's hard to diagnose this over the internet. What I would recommend is to make sure you have no preload with the pedal up. (Preload prevents complete bleeding.) Then bleed the brakes again. If you are still not satisfied, get some premium brake pads like Wagner or Raybestos.

[Eds56]

Well I adjusted the pedal to MC rod to have a slight rattle, re-bled the brakes (yes, there was AIR in the lines) & bedded in the pads. Now, I can report that They work MUCH BETTER now!!!. Might go to a premium brake pad in another month or so, when my next oil change comes up, just for good measures too.

Maybe later on i'll make the switch to POWER / BOOST (before i turn it over to my daughter)...... but based on today's run and feel of brakes, I'm gonna leave it be for awhile & enjoy.

Guys, I learned a LOT with the info in this thread....... THANK YOU!!

[Rick_L]

Glad to hear you made some progress. Sounds like things are operating normally now. Drive it a bit before you make a new call on this.