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View Full Version : Rear Spring pocket kits? (recommendations)



56-210Sedan
01-01-2014, 01:28 PM
I recently was involved in a conversation on relocating the rear springs on a 55, the person wanting to do the work was wanting to use Ecklers/CCI http://www.classicchevy.com/chevy-rear-spring-pocket-kit-1955-1957.html and even though i have never done this job i went and recommended who i thought would have a better setup http://williamsclassic.com . Now i may of went and opened my mouth first without doing my research first which could be the case, but upon thinking on this more i thought i would post a question on it and ask (who would you use if you were to do this job) even if it is making your own setup.

I know for once the Ecklers/CCI set up is cheaper then Williams, rare to say the least IMO but on the other hand Williams work is top notch and the items i have bought from him are great quality, anyway what are your thoughts, recommendations??

Rick_L
01-01-2014, 01:39 PM
Here's the way I think about it.

The Williams kit was the first one and is the one the rest copy or emulate. EW used to sell his kit to Danchuk and CCI but others have no doubt undercut his price to them so he doesn't get the business any more.

On the other hand, these pieces aren't rocket science. The biggest potential problem is quality. So you may have extra cost or trouble to either fit it or return it for a good one.

OLKY55
01-01-2014, 02:17 PM
We're installing a pocket kit in my 57 with one piece frame. The CCI kit we bought was supposed to be for a one piece frame. The frame inserts for the front spring eye did not fit the inside of the frame very well. So, we had some thicker boxes made.

When we went to install the bars, we found one of the tubes was bent. It looks like the raw tubing was probably bent and they just cut it and threaded both ends. We could thread the rod ends into it, but couldn't turn it for adjustment as there is no flex in the poly rod ends.

I can't say I would recommend the CCI kit.

markm
01-01-2014, 03:51 PM
I have to admitt that I dont even remember the brand of kit I bought, It came from a local 55-72 resto parts dealer I have done business with for almost 30 years, like Rick has stated these parts are not that complex. While they did not fit my two piece frame well they worked.

NickP
01-01-2014, 04:18 PM
I would build my own. In looking at Ecklers kit, in the "application" tab, they do not designat a different part number for a one piece or a two piece frame.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 04:27 PM
Here's the way I think about it.

The Williams kit was the first one and is the one the rest copy or emulate. EW used to sell his kit to Danchuk and CCI but others have no doubt undercut his price to them so he doesn't get the business any more.

On the other hand, these pieces aren't rocket science. The biggest potential problem is quality. So you may have extra cost or trouble to either fit it or return it for a good one.

Who told you Williams was first, Earl? TCI was first 1989.
I installed TCI they had made a boo boo but since I lived a few miles away got it rectified easily. I would check their pricing

If you're not doing a minitub also I would not bother with the relocation

NickP
01-01-2014, 04:35 PM
Who told you that TCI was first? For that matter, what does it matter. I did find an interesting article in a 2004 Super Chevy touting that TCI's NEW (not NEW AND IMPROVED) pocket kit was available. http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/suspension_steering/sucp_0409_chevy_tri_five_leaf_spring/ But, as I mentioned "WHAT DOES IT MATTER" - Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to quote Hillary.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 04:40 PM
Just goes to show you you can't believe what you read on the net, especially from a rag like stupid chevy

chevynut
01-01-2014, 04:47 PM
It would not be hard to build your own, but finding the right bushings and cutting out the parts would take some time, especially if you didn't have the proper equipment. If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember that Robert (MP&C) did an article once on his own pocket kit installation.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 04:52 PM
Most would buy a kit first then copy it.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 04:56 PM
Who told you that TCI was first?

Because I bought in 1989 and knew Sal quite well. TCI was small then and they sold at swap meets.

Rick_L
01-01-2014, 05:27 PM
The Williams "pocket" is hard for most to copy exactly in that it is a channel formed from 1/4" plate. The contour of the frame is built into the blank that's formed.

Not that you have to do it that way. You could just as easily weld up 3 pieces to form the channel.

Williams has had a relationship with TCI for a long time. The drop spindle is another item. Supposedly Williams invented it, at one time TCI was the source, now it's Williams.

Williams' headers are not built in his shop either. Doesn't mean they aren't good headers because they are.

My guess is that the pocket and the spindle are not manufactured at either place, but I don't know.

I'll stand by the third party stuff being copies, and the quality may or may not be good.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 05:45 PM
Earl may have been first with a drop spindle, it was close between him and McGaughty. They both were the only ones at the time. Earls spindle back then is not the same one he sells today.

sleeper55
01-01-2014, 05:49 PM
There is a problem with good companys out sourceing from bad companys. I bought a scatter shield from Mcleod. I have their clutch and plate and hyd throw out bearing. None of those products having giving me any trouble and work and look great. Everything was good untill I opened the shield box and was amazed that they let that leave their shop. I called them and asked if they make the shields. They said no that someone else makes it for them. It was a back yard hack job. They cut it out with a cutting touch and dont bother to clean anything up. I cant believe that the owner of that company knows whats leaving with his name on those boxes. I asked if anyone would be interested in seeing what they sent me. the sales guy was really nice on the phone and seemed concerned. He gave me the email of the guy that runs the place and ask me to send the pictures to him. I did that and no one bothered to contact me back to discuss it. i emailed the manager again to make sure he got the pictures and gave him my contact info again. still no reply. That was six months ago.

276327642765

Maddog
01-01-2014, 05:58 PM
Looks like it was cut with an undersized plasma for the task, at least that's what mine look like when I try to do thicker then what my machine can handle.

OLKY55
01-01-2014, 06:08 PM
I would build my own. In looking at Ecklers kit, in the "application" tab, they do not designat a different part number for a one piece or a two piece frame.

You're right. They don't have a different part for 1-piece frames. In their instructions, they state that it can be used with 1-piece frames. I don't have a 2-piece to compare, but is it a different width where the spring eye fits?

Rick_L
01-01-2014, 06:49 PM
I don't think it should matter. The one piece frame is slightly wider than the 2 piece. When you do a pocket in a 2 piece, you have to cut the entire bottom of the frame tube, and dress the cut so that the side walls are flush. The pocket "just fits" in that hole. As I recall I had to dress the sides of the pocket so it would drop in.

The pocket's inside dimensions just fit the width of the spring bushing.

With the one piece, I think you just cut the hole to the right width.

I've never done a pocket on a 1 piece frame, but seems to me the same pocket fits both.

Maybe the instructions weren't very good.

Maddog
01-01-2014, 06:58 PM
The one I did was on a 1 piece frame. It was a good fit and was fairly simple but this was a bare frame turned upside down on the bench. I wouldn't want to do one on a complete car. The important fact for me is you're not gaining much at all you don't do the mini tub also.

56-210Sedan
01-01-2014, 08:03 PM
I want to thank you all for this input you are giving me and others as well that hopefully can take something from this thread should they ever need, were i had no knowledge when i started this i now have knowledge and so once again Thank You All :cool:

niceguy
01-02-2014, 08:32 AM
OK first off full disclosure I work at Williams and have been here for a while...8 years today actually.

Someone sent me a heads up that our spring pocket kit was being talked about so that's why I'm here. Not to stir up anything.

I asked Earle cold when his spring pocket kit hit the market and he straight away said 1973 was his first install. He built the whole thing by hand so if the argument is about mass marketing and production then I couldn't tell you.

As far as the drop spindles, the short version is Williams (Williams Classic Craft back then) started designing the prototype in 87 and took it to the Pomona swap meet in January 1988 to introduce. In the early 90's TCI took possession of several of Earle's early original designs and tweaked them a bit to make them "bolt-on" items. Don't have exact dates on that sorry.

TCI produced a few spring pocket kits using many of the same outside vendors as we did. We began purchasing the drop spindle castings from them to complete them as we wanted with several disc brake options.

TCI has since dropped the tri-five line and the "Williams" drop spindle if you want to call it that is exclusive to us again.

Again, not trying to stir up anything, just clearing up some questions.

-Nathan

chevynut
01-02-2014, 09:10 AM
Hello niceguy, good to have you here. Thanks for clearing up the controversy, but to me it's really a "don't care" since I don't use dropped spindles or pocket kits. Obviously Earle is an innovator and has been involved with tri5s for a long time selling quality products. I have a pair of your headers on my Nomad.

Happy New Year!

Maddog
01-02-2014, 09:17 AM
WOW 1973! But I do believe it wasn't marketed as a kit to the public. That was a long time ago. How's Earl doing? Last I saw of him was back in his little hole in Azusa, Arrow Hwy I believe. Not called Williams Classic Craft any longer, what's the name now? Did he lose his business name when he divorced?

niceguy
01-02-2014, 10:01 AM
Earle's great thanks. The name is Williams Classic Chassis Works. Name change didn't have anything to do with his personal life I'm sure. We have been at our new location for 15 years or so now?

Maddog
01-02-2014, 10:07 AM
Unfortunately losing one's business name often does come about as a result of divorce, ask Doug (AKA Doug's Headers). And yes I know he died some years ago.

NickP
01-02-2014, 12:53 PM
I really do not see the relavance of this last comment Maddog. Nor do I see the relavance of the comment #22 regarding Earl's personal life.

Maddog
01-02-2014, 02:06 PM
I really do not see the relavance of this last comment Maddog. Nor do I see the relavance of the comment #22 regarding Earl's personal life.

It's called conversation since when is divorce a forbidden topic? Happens everyday to the best of us.