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chevynut
10-04-2014, 09:38 PM
I've been working on covering the foam on my door panels with fiberglass the past few days. It's a time-consuming process but it's going fairly well. I have 5 separate sections on each door panel and I have 3 sections almost completed. I've been working my way down from the top and I have to get the panel thickness just right in some places. The most challenging sections will probably be the ones behind my grab bars. I used spray foam on them and they have a lot of bubbles, plus they have the most complex shapes. The thickness needs to be just right at the door handle and grab bar too.

Here's what the panels looked like before I started fiberglassing them. I had them at net shape so I had to sand them down to make them thinner before applying the fiberglass. I'm using 1.5 oz mat and 4 oz cloth with polyester resin. The mat actually works very well. I haven't started on the rear panels yet, but I think they're going to be easier than the door panels. I'm waiting until the door panels are finished so I can match up the lines exactly.

359335943595

I'll post a couple of progress pics when I get them downloaded from my camera. I also have the rear armrests fitted to the side panels now. :)

smooth 56
10-05-2014, 05:24 AM
Looking good chevy, it's going to be bad ass when you get it completed.

MP&C
10-05-2014, 05:55 AM
I'm itching just thinking about the f/g! Layout looks good Laszlo!

carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)
10-05-2014, 06:00 AM
should look great when your done, thanks for sharing. :cool:

chevynut
10-05-2014, 07:48 AM
Thanks guys. Robert, the fiberglass doesn't really bother me much. Once it's covered with resin it just makes dust and it doesn't seem to itch.

I got the foam close to the right shape, but not perfect, so the fiberglass has to fix any irregularities. The biggest issue I've had is sanding too much resin away and having to re-apply it. It's hard to tell how far you've sanded and I've been using a linear air sander on some of it.

There are places on the door panels that are 3" or more thick foam. I have to finish the sides of all sections so the interior guy has something to stick the leather to so the sides have to be reasonably smooth too. There are two removable sections and three stationary ones but everything except the armrest will have to be assembled before the panel is put on the car. I have two screws that help locate and hold the panels in place and the removable armrests cover them. I haven't figured out how to secure the front armrests yet but I'm sure I can and hopefully there will be no screws showing. The armrests will be aluminum.

The other critical thing is that the panels have to fit the doors perfectly without warping. Once the fiberglass is applied, the panels don't flex much like they do with just the foam. The top section has a bend in the aluminum so I wasn't too worried about that. The large section in the middle worried me so I actually put the panels on the doors to apply the first layer of fiberglass. I will also do that on the bottom section to make sure the edges fit properly.

This is really my first attempt ever to use fiberglass mat and cloth. I find it fairly forgiving and not that hard to finish.

chevynut
10-16-2014, 05:06 PM
Finally got some recent pictures. It doesn't look like much, but this is the result of many hours of glassing and sanding. I'm preparing to start on the area above the armrest now. That piece and the piece with the speaker hole are removable. Since those areas have so many bubbles, I'm considering coating them with a mixture of polyester resin and glass microspheres. I wish I'd used the regular pour foam on those areas instead of the spray foam, but I don't want to re-do it.

I have the gaps close but will do the final gapping with the panels attached to the car.



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567chevys
10-17-2014, 03:01 PM
Very Nice Job .

Hope you enjoy them . Thanks for posting steps and pictures .


Sid

chevynut
10-23-2014, 10:01 AM
Got the next sections just about finished, just have the top of the armrest area and edges to do. These were really tricky with all the compound curves and to make them fit the handle tightly. I think I applied fiberglass/mat at least 6 times in different areas. The panels now weigh about 14 pounds each....is that a lot? :confused: Just the aluminum parts are about 10.4 pounds so there's 3.6 pounds of foam and fiberglass. I still have to adjust all the gaps to .110".

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chevynut
11-11-2014, 09:15 PM
I worked on the removable aluminum armrests tonight and I think I may have a slight problem I need to fix. The area under the armrest is 2 7/8" wide at the grab bar and I made it slightly wider, about 3 1/4", in the center of the door panel. The problem is it's still angling away from the door at the top, and when I try to fit the 2 1/2" tall aluminum armrest to it following the contour, it's getting too wide and touches the seat bolster. The seat rubs against it when it's tilted forward.

I think I'm going to have to do some slight re-shaping of the large areas and re-fiberglass them to keep the armrest a little narrower. Seems like a never-ending project. :cry:

JT56
11-12-2014, 08:19 AM
Cnut will that be electric door locks too? They look nice

chevynut
11-12-2014, 09:17 AM
JT56, I have electric door locks, power windows, and power vent windows. The switches for the power windows and door locks will be on the console. I will probably put the switches for the power vent windows on the dash valence.

I was little worried about the angle of the taper in that armrest section and thought about rounding it at the top before, and I wish I would have done it now. I'll just have to grind some off at the top, re-shape it, and re-fiberglass that section. I just don't want the seat rubbing on it and don't want to make the bolster on the seat any smaller.

JT56
11-12-2014, 09:47 AM
Did you ever think of removing the vent window? I personally like the vents, but when do the custom work stop lol!

chevynut
11-12-2014, 12:02 PM
Did you ever think of removing the vent window?

JT, if you look at the pics of my car you can see that externally, except for the smoothie bumpers, the stance, and the wheels it''s going to looks pretty much "stock" with all the emblems and trim and even the stock paint scheme (different colors). Everything under the car, under the hood, and inside will be more custom and modern. I will have gray smoked glass too.

I just took a grinder to the driver's side door panel and cut it back about 1/4", further from the seat. It's mostly in the middle of the armrest.

chevynut
11-12-2014, 03:08 PM
Got the fiberglass re-applied. I used two layers of mat and 8 ounces of resin and it turned out it was exactly the right amount. Good guess. ;)

After I ground down the passenger side to match the driver's side, I decided to reinstall the passenger seat to check clearances. For some reason the passenger side had quite a bit more clearance than the driver's side. It makes no sense because the seat mounts are identical mirror images, and the seats should be exactly the same. Maybe the bolster is a little smaller on the passenger side.

Anyhow, they're re-shaped. After the fiberglass cures I can sand it back down and resume building the removable aluminum pieces.

Rick_L
11-12-2014, 05:34 PM
Did you ever think of removing the vent window? I personally like the vents, but when do the custom work stop lol!

While it's not a piece of cake, it's a lot easier to delete the vent windows on a sedan or non-Nomad wagons than it is to do on hardtops and Nomads. The reason for that is the chrome frame around the window has to be lengthened, and you have to deal with the A post interface.

I like the functionality of the vent windows myself.

chevynut
11-12-2014, 06:59 PM
Rick is right, the vent window delete for a Nomad isn't nearly as straightforward as it is on a sedan. You have to lengthen the window frame and modify the exterior trim somehow. I kinda like the vent window delete on some cars, but not on my Nomad. The vent windows are like all the stainless....they define the era.

carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)
11-13-2014, 05:16 AM
luv the vent windows too. like you said, they are part of the era. :cool:

chevynut
11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
You guys FAILED me!!! :( Don't you know you're supposed to keep me from doing stupid stuff?

I was just talking to my brother about having to slightly re-do my door panels, because the seat rubbed the armrest when the seat back was pushed forward. He then pointed out the obvious to me....

The seat back won't be pushed forward unless the DOOR IS OPEN! :p

Holy crap, this just caused me a lot more work that I didn't need to do. I have it almost finished, as I had to apply another layer to get to the right level, but it's taken me 3-4 hours to get there. To be honest, I have thought it probably needed to be shaved a little anyhow but it would have worked fine as it was.

chevynut
12-28-2014, 05:35 PM
The past few days I worked on finishing the fiberglassing of the bottom of my door panels. I actually put the first layer on with the panels attached to the doors to make sure they fit right. Once you glass these, they don't bend. I also finished cutting out the holes for the courtesy lights.

I got some of the gapping between the sections done as well. My interior guy wants .110" between panels for the leather to wrap around and I'm a bit less than that so he can tweak it to where he wants it.

I think I'm changing my plan for the armrests. Making them out of aluminum has proven to be really tricky to get the correct shapes, so I may make a foam block and fiberglass them as well. It will require a change in my strategy to attach them, but I think I can figure that out.

Here's the panels as they are today (the sections above the armrests are not screwed down). Notice the dark areas near the armrests where I ground a little off for better clearance. I don't know why they got darker but the resin is thicker there. I think I'm going to spray a coat of Slicksand on these, final sand them, then spray a coat of PPG DPLF epoxy primer for the leather glue to adhere to.

3891 3892

And this is what they're supposed to look like per my original drawing of them....

3893

I have ordered the stainless bar for the trim pieces that go between the bottom sections and the narrow ones above them. I plan to make some speaker grilles using hammerforming from a pattern taken off of the panels.

Now I can move on to fiberglassing the rear panels, which should go much faster. Then I need to work on the console and the cargo area construction.

MP&C
12-28-2014, 06:02 PM
Laszlo, you have a bead roller if my memory serves me right, correct? What kind of shape do you need for the armrests? I did this out of 14 ga steel on a bead roller, and used the same dies to make the inner panel for the lift gate (see thread in fab section)



So today I got a phone call, and long story short, needed to do some metalshaping for a Caterpillar D5 dozer. No, really! The last time this same mishap occurred was over ten years ago in my back yard. It seems dirt/mud gets packed between the stump pan and the oil pan, until a hole rusts through the oil pan. Last time Paul bought a new oil pan, but it sounded like he needed to use the dozer this week, so he brought it over for repair..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture232.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture234.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture235.jpg

The heat marking is where he was attempting to braze it closed, with little success. Calipers showed the pan to be 14 ga, and I just happened to have some in stock. I've used the bead roller before to form a radius, but never on metal this thick before. This will be a good test of the fancy 75A durometer skateboard wheel to see how well it works.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture236.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture238.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture239.jpg

Took a few passes, but worked real nice. Now for a relief cut and a weld...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture240.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture241.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture242.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture243.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture246.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture247.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture248.jpg

Rust hole removed, patch trimmed and fitted, then welded in place..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture252.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture253.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture255.jpg

.....and Paul cleans it up for paint..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/D5%20Caterpillar/Picture257.jpg

You never know what you see over here in the shop... :lol_hitti





If you're still open to using aluminum, I'd think for sure these type dies would work well in your bead roller to produce similar shapes..

chevynut
12-28-2014, 06:46 PM
Robert, the shapes are fairly simple....once piece is curved across the top and another piece curved around the inboard side. I was going to make them out of two pieces of aluminum welded together. I don't think I even need a bead roller, just cut the pieces out and weld them together. I guess I may still do that.

I'm getting kinda burnt out working on these panels and I'm looking for a quick way to finish them. It doesn't really matter to me if the armrests are aluminum or fiberglass...they'll work the same either way. I still have the rear side panels to fiberglass too.

I need to get the car down to a bare frame sometime in February to get the frame painted. At least that's what I'm shooting for. I have to get this interior construction done, or at least far enough done that I can take the doors off the body and the body off the frame. I can still work on the console with the body on stands. I guess I could still work on the door panels with the doors off too.

chevynut
12-31-2014, 02:45 PM
After messing around with all the compound curves on the armrests I decided to make them out of foam and fiberglass. I got frustrated with trying to hold the aluminum in position and get it trimmed to fit.

I decided to try using pink foam so I could make the armrests hollow afterward. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but if it's not I can always do it over with urethane foam. The problem with urethane is that you have to cut it out as it won't dissolve like the pink foam does.

Here's my blanks cut to the final size I want, which will be trimmed down a bit and covered with fiberglass. Then once they're at final shape and size, I need to remove the foam and figure out how to attach them to the panels after they're installed in the car.

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chevynut
08-27-2015, 05:46 PM
Reopening an old thread....WOW, time flies. I finally got back to doing some more fiberglassing. After I posted above I re-did the armrests in a different type of foam and fiberglassed them. Then I started working on my valence and console which I have mostly finished. It seems like everything is 80% done and I can't seem to get there. :(

I decided to jump into finishing the rear side panels. I shaped and recessed the upper section of the panels to make them 1/4" below the finished level. That accounts for 1/16" of fiberglass, 1/8" of foam, and 1/16" of leather. Once I had the shape the way I wanted it I cut some mat and mixed some resin.

This is what they looked like after setting up...


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4852&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4851&stc=1


And this is after some roughing of the edges and fitting the lower edges to my inserts. There needs to be a 1/16" gap for the leather....


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4853&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4854&stc=1

I have to sand it all smooth and probably add a little more resin near the insert, then sand it all smooth again until I get to the remaining 3/16" from the finished level that I want. Then I need to proceed to the next section down which is removable.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4855&stc=1

Rick_L
08-27-2015, 06:37 PM
Just thinking out loud here, and I may be way out of line (or maybe not).

Why the fiberglass? Why not just glue some leather over rigid foam after the foam is shaped to suit?

A question from a guy that's not an interior guy or upholsterer.

chevynut
08-27-2015, 10:20 PM
Rick, the foam is "rigid" but it's not hard. If you hit it with your knee or arm it would dent it. That's why I covered the foam with fiberglass. It would also be hard to adhere the soft foam to the rigid foam, I believe. The fiberglass gives it a good base to adhere to. There will be 1/8" soft foam everywhere under the leather, and 3/8" soft foam on the armrests.

If you look at modern OEM door panels, they're molded to shape in hard plastic and covered with foam and leather/vinyl.

WagonCrazy
08-28-2015, 09:03 AM
I have a general design "materials" related question for you too Laszlo:
How have you attached the base foam to the metal panels?
I get that you are fiberglassing over the foam, but what keeps the foam from eventually separating from the metal panel? Just glue? or resin? or screws? or clips? or???

Rick_L
08-28-2015, 03:43 PM
Why don't/can't you use a more rigid foam?

chevynut
08-31-2015, 07:51 AM
How have you attached the base foam to the metal panels? I get that you are fiberglassing over the foam, but what keeps the foam from eventually separating from the metal panel? Just glue? or resin? or screws? or clips? or???

Paul, I used a 2-part pour foam in most places. It actually adheres pretty well. I scuffed the aluminum and cleaned it with acetone before pouring it. The fiberglass obviously helps hold it in place too, in some areas. Where I didn't use pour foam I used Gorilla Glue to attach small flat pieces of isocyanurate foam. You can't use polystyrene (blue, pink, etc.) foam with polyester resin but you could use epoxy resin with it.

Rick, I don't know of a "more rigid" foam that I could have used. They do make a denser pour foam but I didn't want to add that much weight and I'm not sure it would have been dense enough to prevent denting. I could have made a "plug" and a female fiberglass mold and made the whole thing from fiberglass, but it's way too much work. ;)

One thing you really have to watch with a foam core construction is the shape of the panel. Once it's fiberglassed it's very rigid and won't bend anymore.

WagonCrazy
08-31-2015, 04:35 PM
Great feedback Laszlo. I'm always wondering what the hot interior temps do to upholstery items. In my 9 passenger, that 3M hightemp adhesive spray just lets go when the temps go over 100 degrees outside. It's a southwest thing 'round here...things have to be able to handle the heat. Car interiors are brutal in the summertime here.

Carry on. Looking forward to seeing the finished interior. :cool:

chevynut
08-31-2015, 05:31 PM
Looking forward to seeing the finished interior. :cool:

Man, believe me you're not the only one. I think I started on these door panels over a year ago (designed them in November 2013) and since then did the console and valence, and finished the frame and got it painted. I had a helluva time just getting the aluminum panels to fit the doors like they needed to. All of this is trial and error for me, as I've never done anything like this before. None of it is 100% finished, though. Not even ready for leather. :(

chevynut
08-31-2015, 05:43 PM
Paul, in case you're interested here's a little more on the pour foam....

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/3315-Pouring-foam-on-side-panels

Rick_L
08-31-2015, 06:59 PM
What I was thinking about was not "pour foam" but sculpted rigid foam, acquired in sheets of various thickness.

Not sure the difference in available rigidity, but I think the sheets may be available more rigid.

chevynut
08-31-2015, 08:14 PM
Rick, I don't know what kind of foam you're thinking about but I think pretty much any "rigid" foam is going to dent or break. I have also explained before the difficulty in attaching flat sheets of foam to these door panels that are NOT flat. They have many compound curves and that's why I used pour foam.

I wonder if some of the semi-rigid foam like "ethafoam" would work. I think it's closed-cell polyethylene and it's harder than open-cell foam. I just think it would be pretty difficult to shape. This pour foam (urethane) is easy to shape and smooth. The spray foam insulation I tried isn't recommended, as it's too "rubbery" to shape easily.

Fladiver64
09-01-2015, 06:22 PM
I have used some of the more rigid foams in aircraft construction and the 18 lb per cf is very dense and would stand up to a fair amount of abuse. We used it to make structural blukheads in aircraft with a fiberglass layup on both sides. You could probably get away with just covering with interior materials or even just a coat of resin. Lazslo brings up a good point about attaching to compound curves, you could mix up a paste of micro balloons and resin like a putty to make up the difference depending on the gap and final structural integrity needed.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/lastafoam.php

chevynut
09-01-2015, 08:32 PM
Wow Mike, 18 pcf? That's some heavy stuff. The foam I'm using is 2 pcf.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/2970-Nomad-door-panel-construction?highlight=pour

I do have some micro-balloons an I've used them with the polyester resin as a filler were I had large bubbles in the spray foam. It works pretty well and I guess it might help fill the gaps between foam sheets and the panels. I'll try to take a pic of the backside of a door panel so you can see how curved they really are. The rear side panels aren't quite as complex, but they still have some significant curves and bends.

chevynut
09-02-2015, 09:01 PM
Got a little more done the past couple of days. I pretty much finished the upper sections except for a little touch-up with the polyester and got started on the next removable sections. I also had to re-shape these panels 1/4" below the finished surface. Notice I also used some spray foam on those and they ended up with some big bubbles but they'll still work. After those are done, the rest should be easy. ;)

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4887&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4888&stc=1