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chevynut
12-18-2014, 10:43 AM
I wanted to tell you all about my experience dealing with a salesman (Larry) at Jim Meyer Racing and with Jim Meyer himself. I will never do business with a company that employs people like this and allows this to happen, even condoning and encouraging the behavior. You won’t believe how Jim Meyer dealt with this, which is at the end. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to explain everything as it happened. Never again will I deal with this company or recommend them to anyone.

As you may know, I am building a chassis for a 55 gasser project. My customer decided to go with ladder bars in the rear with a Dana 60 rear axle. After looking at kits from Earle Williams, Jim Meyer Racing Products (JMRP), and others he asked me my opinion on the Jim Meyers ladder bar kit. I went to their website and looked at the pictures they posted of it and I told him I though the price was fairly reasonable and that the design looked okay to me. So he decided to order it. Here's the picture they have on their website when you go to the menu on the left and select the ladder bar kit:

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/products/rear_suspension_ladder_bar_kit.shtml

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/images/products/rear_suspension/36-48_ladder_bar_001b.jpg


The customer ordered this kit on November 4th and he was told 2 weeks for delivery. I was already working on his frame and needed the kit to do anything in the rear. On November 11th he was told it would ship in 10 days. On December 4th or 5th the customer informed me that the sales guy (Larry) at JMRP said the order was shipped that day. Since I was going to be out of town the following week and wanted to get someone to take the parts into the shop, I asked my customer for a tracking number so I knew when it was going to arrive.

I finally got the tracking number on 12/9 and the forwarded e-mail from JMRP said the kit was shipped on 12/9, not the week before as he was told. He was flat lied to about the shipping date. The package arrived on 12/12, the day before I returned, and 5 ½ weeks from when it was ordered. So much for the “2-week delivery” but this was only the beginning of this debacle.

I quickly opened up the packages because I was really interested to see the parts, and how everything went together. We were told that the kit included the ladder bars, front crossmember, front and rear mounting plates, upper and lower shock mounts, the diagonal link and brackets, and all hardware. There were two boxes each about 4 feet long and about 8”x8”. One box had only the diagonal link in it. The other box had both ladder bars, rod ends, front and rear brackets, lower shock mounts, and some plates with u-brackets welded to them. There were bolts and nuts included along with all the rod ends. There were absolutely no instructions or dimensions for mounting the ladder bars. I looked at the packing list and it showed a “freight charge” of $160. I could have shipped the same two boxes for around $50. He also ordered an engine mount crossmember and the whole package was around $1675.

There was no front crossmember, no shock crossmember, and the ladder bars didn't look anything like the picture on the website. Here's exactly what we got in the "kit":

3848

I contacted the customer and informed him that we were missing the front crossmember, the shock crossmember, and the lower shock mount spacers and bolts.


The customer then contacted JMRP and informed them via e-mail of the missing parts and asked that they be shipped immediately and copied me on the correspondence. This was on Sunday, 12/14.

To clarify the customer’s request I immediately sent an e-mail message in reply to JMRP and the customer with the above picture showing all the parts received. I informed them about the issue I found with the bolts at the front brackets being too short, and asked for the intended installation width or spacing of the ladder bars since no assembly instructions were included. I said I could probably figure out the spacing but they must have a design because the diagonal link had to be built at some defined spacing. I also pointed out that the ladder bars had no diagonal bracing as shown on their website, and the front mounting plates only had three holes in them, not four as shown in their pictures. I also noted that they show the forward diagonal link bracket attached to the ladder bar bracket with one long bolt through the entire assembly. The included bolts barely come even with the end of a thin nut, and they included an extra bolt but it was SHORTER than the one through the front of the ladder bar. I said that I felt they should show a picture of exactly what’s in the kit so the customer knows what he’s ordering. This was the first e-mail I sent to JMRP. Here’s a picture of one of the front bracket bolts tightened down. This is unsafe, imo.


3849 3850



The customer then copied me on an e-mail where he asked JMRP to send a return tag but gave no further information. In it was also a response from JMRP to the customer telling him that the upper shock mounts were what they used on their Tri5 frames, and their shock crossmember required trunk floor modification. He also said he would send the front crossmember and the shock mount spacers and bolts out right away…that was 12/15 in the AM.

I replied copying JMRP and asked my customer what part we were returning, so I could get it packed up. I also mentioned that we needed a longer bolt for the diagonal link bracket, and again asked for designed installation width for the ladder bars.


My customer sent me an e-mail explaining that we were sending the ladder bars back for additional bracing. He was told that the ladder bars had been “re-designed” using 4130 cr-mo so they didn’t need the diagonal bracing. He told them that he wanted them the way they were shown on their website, with the bracing installed and said that’s why he bought them. The bracing gives the “nostalgic” look he wants. So they told him to have me pack them up and they would send a return tag as soon as I told them the package weight. I don’t see how they could make them look like the ones pictured, however.

The JMRP salesman finally sent me an e-mail saying the ladder bars were designed for a 28” width. He said the shock crossmember required trunk floor modification because it interfered with the floor and sent a hand-drawn diagram that was pretty useless. He told me that the upper shock mount plates were what they used on their tri5 frames, not a shock crossmember, despite what was shown on their website. He also asked me how long of a bolt I needed for the diagonal brace bracket. I responded and thanked him for the width measurement, but at this point I am beginning to get frustrated with the BS and I asked him why I had to specify the bolt length for a kit they designed. I told him I felt it needed to be 3” long to work correctly in my opinion. I also told him I was going to install a crossmember in any case, because I felt the frame needed one when using coilovers. This is a pic from their website of the installation:

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/images/products/rear_suspension/36-48_ladder_bar_003b.jpg
























I then immediately re-packed the bare ladder bars and taped up the package. I sent an e-mail to the customer and JMRP and informing them that the box weight was 24 pounds. The customer was told that they would turn the ladder bars around on the same day they received them.

The next afternoon (12/16) I got an e-mail from JMRP asking what length bolts I got. I replied they were 2 3/16” and that the stack-up plus the nut height was 2 3/16”. I told them that being an A&P mechanic I was always taught that a minimum of 3 threads should protrude from the nut, and I felt they were too short. I also said there was no way the bolt would work if I put the diagonal brace bracket on with it as shown on their website. I asked if there was an alternate assembly they intended with the short bolt in the kit. We went back and forth a little and I answered all of his questions as quickly and clearly as possible.

Near the end of the working day I still had not received a return tag so I sent an e-mail asking for someone to please get it to me. I told them I needed to get this project moving and wanted to get the parts back to them for modification. I have the frame tying up my jig so I need to get this project moving because I have another C4 conversion to work on.

I also told them that I had tried the rear ladder bar brackets on the axle housing, and they didn’t fit. The brackets were made for a 3” diameter housing, and the actual housing diameter is 3 1/8”. I said that I could make them fit by grinding them, but didn’t think I should have to do this for a kit designed for this application. This is where the crap that blew me away started.....

chevynut
12-18-2014, 10:55 AM
A few minutes after I sent the last e-mail above, my cell phone rang. I answered it and was asked if I was Laszlo. I said I was and he said he was the sales guy from JMRP and I thought he wanted to talk to me about the kit. Instead, he proceeded to yell and cuss at me, call me names, and told me to quit sending “f-ing e-mails” to him because I'm not the "f-ing customer" and went on a on in a psycho rant. He dropped a dozen f-bombs or more and kept yelling at me as I tried to tell him what I thought of his parts and his screwed up kit and his “customer service”. He said the customer told him the axle was 3” and went on and on yelling and cussing at me. He hung up on me in the middle of his mindless rant.

So I hastily fired a nasty e-mail back to him, copying my customer and his brother who was helping with the project. I also told my customer that if it was me, I would send this garbage back and contact my credit card company to reverse the charges and tell JMRP to shove it.

I forwarded my e-mail to Jim Meyer personally, and told him that I would fire my employee if he did this to any customer or his agent. I didn't know if it would do any good, and it didn't.

Then I got a nasty e-mail from “Larry” and this is what it said:

“HEY JERK OFF, DO YOU EAT WITH THAT DIRTY MOUTH OF YOURS. YOUR NOT EVEN A CUSTOMER. WE DON’T SELL TO AIR FRAME AND POWER PLANT TECHS BECAUSE THEY ARE GENERALLY ALMOST AS STUPID AS YOU ARE. LARRY @ JMRP


So apparently this "Larry" jerk got pissed because I was trying to help my both HIM and my customer out, and because he was too stupid to send the right parts in the first place. I replied and told him we’ll see how Jim Meyer deals with this and here’s what he said:


“OOOOOH OUCH! YOU THINK I WOULD TALK TO YOU LIKE THAT IF JIM DID’NT KNOW ABOUT IT MR. ENGINEER ?.
HE HAS READ THIS WHOLE DEAL FROM START TO FINISH. YOU MIGHT WANT TO RANT AT HIM JIM@JIMMEYERRACING.COM

So Jim Meyer is apparently condoning this type of behavior from his employees. What a couple of complete jerks. I would NEVER do any business with this company, and I don’t think anyone else should either. I don’t think these guys have any clue how design parts for a “kit” or to run a business.

But that's no the end of it.....

chevynut
12-18-2014, 11:00 AM
I didn't hear from Jim Meyer until I checked my e-mail this morning. I really didn't believe he would support his sales guy doing this to me, but I was wrong. This is what Jim Meyer, OWNER and PRESIDENT of Jim Meyer Racing Products sent to me yesterday afternoon. Such a "professional", huh?:



jim@jimmeyerracing.com (https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?retry_ssl=1#)
Dec 17 at 3:45 PM


Hey lazlo, you sound like a big mouth know it all who doesent know jack shit. I don’t like to be called names by some fag know it all.no one could work for you , you are to fucking stupid to have anyone near you. Stick your head back up your ass where it came from. Stop by my shop sometime for a free tour and a blanket party. Jim meyer

And then this one:




jim@jimmeyerracing.com (https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?retry_ssl=1#)
Dec 17 at 3:47 PM


Again, lazlo go fuck yourself you stupid fucking fag. Jim meyer


I replied in kind and told him I would be posting this here. Never again will I recommend this company to anyone.

Then I got these e-mails from him this morning, just a few minutes ago:




jim@jimmeyerracing.com (https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?retry_ssl=1#)
Today at 10:56 AM


Lazlo, go back to Arkansas and fuck your mom some more, you stupid motherfucker. You are not my customer, you are a stupid son of a bitch, fuck you .jim meyer


He just can't stop his psycho rants...

chevynut
12-18-2014, 11:25 AM
He just won't stop. Here's another one he just sent. He doesn't know how deep of a hole he's digging.....



jim@jimmeyerracing.com (https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?retry_ssl=1#)
Today at 11:03 AM



you are so fucked up, one minute you say you will tell the world how fucked we are ,the next minute you say you wont mention my name again, get it straight you stupid fuck.show the bolt picture to the world so they can see how fucking stupid you are.three threads past the nut doesnt do jack shit you stupid fuckin queer.jim meyer



And here's what the FAA says about it. No, a car isn't an airplane, but the same safety principles apply. All I did is mention that I thought the bolts were too short. And certainly the bolt was too short for the diagonal link bracket.

"No more than three and no less than one thread must be showing when the nut is attached and tightened to the correct torque value"


f. Fiber or nylon locknuts are constructed with an unthreaded fiber or nylon locking insert held securely in place. The fiber or nylon insert provides the locking action because it has a smaller diameter than the nut. Fiber or nylon self-locking nuts are not installed in areas where temperatures exceed 250 °F. After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or stud has at least one thread showing past the nut.

chevynut
12-18-2014, 11:41 AM
Here's the text of EVERY e-mail I sent leading up to the nasty phone call from "Larry" the psycho at JMRP. Personally I don't think I said anything wrong, certainly nothing that I would have thought would elicit this sort of response from JMRP. I must have hurt his feelings. LOL

Here's the very first one, sent 11/14 (I x'd out the customer's name):

"Just to be clear I attached a picture of everything that was in the ladder bar kit that was shipped to me for use on XXXXX's gasser chassis. Note also that the ladder bars have no diagonal bracing like those shown on your website.

In studying the assembly pictures on your website you show a shock crossmember on your ladder bar kit. Instead, it appears that you sent some brackets welded to plates that in turn get welded to the inboard side of the frame as shown on your 4-link gasser chassis shown in the pic below. It seems to me that this pretty much dictates that the shocks get installed vertically instead of at slight angle inward at the top. I feel the shock crossmember provides a cleaner installation than plates welded to the side of the frame. Even the 4-link gasser chassis has a tubular crossmember....

No front 2x3 crossmember was included as is shown on your ladder bar kit page. No lower shock spacers or bolts were included which are shown in all of your website pictures. Note that there are only 3 holes in the front ladder bar brackets, not 4 as shown. You really should have a picture of the actual kit so customers know what they're buying.

It appears that the forward diagonal link bracket is supposed to be attached to the same bolt that goes through the front ladder bar rod ends. The included bolt is only 1 3/4" long which is shorter than the bolts through the ladder bar rod ends. Unless there is an alternate assembly procedure I need a longer bolt. The longer included lower rear ladder bar bolt looks to be long enough for the rear diagonal link bracket.

No installation instructions were included so if you have them please forward them to me. I know where everything goes, but I don't know the intended ladder bar spacing. It is probably dictated by the length of the diagonal link but it surely was designed to some pre-determined ladder bar spacing which should be communicated to customers.

Laszlo "




I sent this one 12/15:


"XXXX, what exactly are we returning?

Larry/JMRP, I don't understand your comment about the shock crossmember requiring trunk modification. I install shock crossmembers on all of my tri5 conversion frames, and lots of guys use shock crossmembers on stock frames instead of bolting them through the trunk floor. As long as the crossmember doesn't sit over the top of the frame rail, I don't see a problem using one. Why doesn't yours work without modifying the trunk?

I also need a couple more things:

First, I need a longer bolt for the front diagonal link bracket as I mentioned in my last e-mail. The kit has a shorter one than what's used through the rod ends. Either that, or tell me how to use that short bolt. It can't be used as shown on your website.

Finally, please tell me the design center to center spacing on the ladder bars. You guys obviously size the diagonal link for a specific spacing, and it seems reasonable to tell me what that intended spacing is instead of having me figure it out.

Thanks,

Laszlo "




Then this one 12/15 after I got the ladder bar spacing dimensions:

"Thanks for the info. The measurement really helps me get started. I'll check everything out before final welding. My intention is to screw the rod ends in about halfway and lock them in place, then set everything up where it belongs relative to the axle and frame.

I want to put a crossmember in the rear whether it's for the shocks or not. I'll take care of that on my end and make sure it clears the trunk floor. I just feel the frame needs some kind of supporting crossmember at the humps. With the shocks behind the axle I can see where there could be interference with the floor. The stock shocks are in front of the axle and that's where I put the coilovers on my conversion chassis.

I guess I don't understand why I need to specify the bolt length for the front diagonal link bracket when it shows in this picture how the diagonal link bracket is supposed to be mounted. It looks to me like it's mounted using the SAME bolt that holds the front of the ladder bar to the bracket. Shouldn't it be part of the kit? If that's not correct please tell me where it's supposed to be mounted. Per my measurements it looks like it needs to be 3" long mounted that way using the thick nut supplied. "



Then this one late 12/15 per their request:

"I re-packed the bare ladder bars in the original box and it weighs 24 pounds on my scale.

Laszlo"


On 12/16 "Larry" asked about the bolts and I replied:

"Yes the bolts are in the front mounts, but there's barely enough bolt to attach the ladder bars with the thin nut. If I put the diagonal link bracket on the same bolt then it's too short. Especially if I use the thick nut as shown in your pics.

I'm a licensed A&P mechanic and we were always taught to have 3 threads protruding from any nut. There's barely anything sticking out on those front bolts. Personally I think they're both too short but one of them will work.

Laszlo"



I replied to another bolt question shortly later:

"The bolts supplied for the front brackets are 2 3/16". The two bracket plates, rod end, and two spacers measure 1 3/4" total and the nut is 7/16" thick. That's a stackup of 2 3/16" so there's ZERO bolt protrusion even with the thin nut.

The extra bolt that was sent has a washer and a thick nut, and the bolt is only 1 11/16" long.

Laszlo"


And then I sent this one late in the afternoon, which was the last one before the nasty phone call:

"Is someone going to send me a return tag so I can get this stuff moving? It's been boxed up and ready to go. Please schedule a pickup anytime this week but let me know when it is. I'll have the parts sitting outside for the UPS guy. I can't do anything until they come back to me so let's get rolling.

By the way, I tried fitting the rear brackets to the axle, and they don't fit. The brackets appear to have a 3" opening and the axle tubes are 3 1/8". I can fix it with some grinding, but I didn't expect to have to do that with this kit.

Laszlo"




So is any of this a reason to call and cuss me out just because "you're not the customer"? The customer can't see the issues because he lives on the east coast and doesn't understand what needs to be done. I was just trying to help them resolve the issues with the kit. I have to put this stuff together, and could be held responsible if something goes wrong, like a bolt that's too short falls out and causes a crash. I think Larry and Jim Meyer were totally out of line. Obviously they got pissed because I pointed out everything they did wrong.

chevynut
12-18-2014, 12:22 PM
Guys, if anyone here or elsewhere ever asks about experiences with Jim Meyer Racing Products do them a favor and link this thread. They need to see what kind of people they are. Thanks.

NickP
12-18-2014, 12:22 PM
Facebook can be your friend on this one. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jim-Meyer-Racing-Products/135056363209821

Keep it civil and let the public know.

Here is his personal page: https://www.facebook.com/jim.meyer.5249?fref=ts

NickP
12-18-2014, 12:23 PM
Guys, if anyone here or elsewhere ever asks about experiences with Jim Meyer Racing Products do them a favor and link this thread. They need to see what kind of people they are. Thanks.

So, where does the project stand? AME has some nice stuff.

chevynut
12-18-2014, 12:36 PM
Nick, posting on his FB page is futile but I did it anyhow. He'll just delete it. You can see what kind of a person he is. Appraently he has TWO company FB pages:

https://www.facebook.com/JimMeyerRacing?pnref=lhc

I didn't know AME built gasser stuff. I'll take a look. We're looking at Earle's ladder bar kit now.

Maddog
12-18-2014, 05:19 PM
I have dealt with Jim in the past and he was nothing but friendly, polite and knowledgeable. You must have touched a nerve or he was having a bad day or maybe the North Koreans hacked his email?

Rick_L
12-18-2014, 07:53 PM
I just noticed something really dumb in the diagram in the first post. The sway bar inside the crossmember tube. You don't need a sway bar with a ladder bar suspension. It's already way too stiff in roll. Enough so that you should never use ladder bars on the street. When you go around a corner the inside rear tire will lift off the pavement, killing side traction, forward traction, and ride.

As far as the bolts/nuts go, if you try to run those at an NHRA track, you'll fail inspection (if they look). NHRA requirement is similar to what was posted. One thread showing minimum.

Does the front mount for the ladder bar use a typical rod end (Heim joint) like it looks like? That's a big mistake. It needs either a rod end with a rubber or PU bushing, or it needs to be solid steel (solid steel is an NHRA requirement, the bushing is a compromise for the street).

I've always thought their front end stuff might be ok, I've seen some and had some criticism, but also have never heard really bad stuff. Now I wonder about that too.

Your emails seem civil, did you get a bit more upset on the phone?

chevynut
12-18-2014, 09:07 PM
Rick, I agree with you on the swaybar, and I didn't even notice they had one. The front mount is a heim, and the rear ones are solid steel.

The reason the customer wants ladder bars is for the nostalgic gasser look. He loves the "Tuff-E-Nuff"gasser so we're trying to mimic that ride height and look. He wants this for a street cruiser, not a race car:


http://image.hotrod.com/f/38841239+w660+h440+cr1/1210sr-02-z%2b1955-chevy-gasser%2boctober-2012-street-shaker.jpg

I think I was civil on the phone UNTIL the dick salesman started yelling and calling me a "f-er" and every other name in the book. Then I lost it and gave it right back to him as I said. Then I sent him an e-mail that was "in kind" to his phone call. Up until the phone call, I showed my e-mails above. I didn't say anything else to them. I didn't say anything to Jim Meyer but I forwarded him my e-mail to "Larry" to show him what was going on and said I would fire him if he was my employee treating a customer like that. But he was already watching my e-mails according to "Larry". I also copied him on an e-mail to the customers where I told them I don't care what they do but I would send the junk back and tell them where to stick it. And you saw how Jim Meyer replied.

I don't think I deserved anything like what these guys did. The funny thing is that today the front crossmember and the lower shock spacers and bolts arrived. They're still sitting outside and we have decided to send everything back to this screwed up company and get their money back. I'm glad I didn't pay for it myself, but what if I would have? Would they have treated me differently because then I was "the customer"? So how is it any different if I'm the guy installing the stuff versus the one ordering it? They sent it all to MY address, so am I the customer and my customer is really just the payer? Or is only the guy who actually places the order the customer?

The fact is the guy who ordered the parts is not the payer, his brother Steve (the guy I'm building the HEMI55 frame for) is, and Steve's name is the one on the boxes along with mine with my address. Steve has never even talked to them as far as I know. The guy who ordered the parts just talked to them on the phone and via e-mail along with me. So who is really "the customer"?

These guys are total morons, imo.

I talked to one of my former customers today who bought a clip and rear kit from me. He was looking for advice on a transmission for his car. I mentioned this debacle to him, and he told me about what a local guy he knows in Kentucky said to him when he was looking at frame options for his car. The guy owns a rod shop and he told me that he said "whatever you do don't buy a Jim Meyer frame". So apparently he had some issues with either the people or the product too.

chevynut
12-20-2014, 11:53 AM
I called Earle Williams this morning to discuss this ladder bar project. I explained the relationship between me and the customer, and he understood and has no problem with it. Wow, what a contrast in personalities. Earle is a really nice guy and easy to do business with as far as I can tell. I have his headers on my Nomad and I've seen pics of some of his other parts, and told him I was impressed with his work. He understand what the customer wants a lot better than JMRP and seems much more friendly and flexible. :)

chevynut
12-21-2014, 09:47 AM
What's funny about this mess is that AFTER the whole debacle with Jim Meyer I received the front crossmember and the lower shock mount bolts and spacers the next day. I don't know what else is there, but it's all going back to them anyhow. They never did issue a return tag like they said they would.

chevynut
01-05-2015, 10:07 AM
JMRP has been asked to issue a return tag for all of this crap. Two weeks have gone by since they were told the parts are being returned and the parts are still sitting here. They asked for a weight for the parts a week ago and said they'd send a printable label....don't you think they should have that since they shipped the stuff to me? I have seen no such label yet and I assume "printable" means it will come via e-mail. What a screwed up company. If it was my money hanging out there, I'd be on their asses every day until they issued the return tag and refunded my money.

JT56
01-05-2015, 08:44 PM
Wont be buying anything from them! I do like Earl customer service!

rkwhite61
01-07-2015, 07:33 AM
Wow! This is horrible and the profanity thrown at you is WAY out of line. Totally unprofessional for a company owner. Shame on you Jim Meyer!

I'll second the comments on Earle. The man was nothing but nice to me... even took the time to answer follow up emails regarding installation concerns.

Tech ll
08-17-2021, 03:43 PM
I purchased an IFS Suspension from Jim Myer Racing in or around 2002/03. I have been satisfied with it. Now I have some A Arm Bushings that need replaced and don't know where to get them. If anyone knows please advise. It is for a 1955 Chevy.
Thanks in advance for any possible help.
BLW

carls 56
08-17-2021, 05:10 PM
might want to start your own thread with question, this one is kind of old.

BamaNomad
08-17-2021, 07:39 PM
I purchased an IFS Suspension from Jim Myer Racing in or around 2002/03. I have been satisfied with it. Now I have some A Arm Bushings that need replaced and don't know where to get them. If anyone knows please advise. It is for a 1955 Chevy.
Thanks in advance for any possible help.
BLW

I assume you've tried to call them? If they can't sell you replacement parts, then you can remove them and measure them and then try to find duplicates.. (I have no knowledge of this company; did they use polyurethane or rubber? If they used rubber, the bushings may have been STOCK TYPE??_ which are available via Moog and others.