I've seen some pretty shoddy work...

[chevynut]

But this guy should know better imo. And everyone tells him how great of a job he's doing. Why would anyone hand-build parts that don't look or fit right when repops are available cheap? Then he lap-welds a lower quarter on? For shame. :eek:

http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133691&page=4

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y392/1AWSOMERIDE/Dwights%2055/IMG_0414_zps129aa3fb.jpg

[NickP]

What is a "Trifive Certified Restoration Shop"? Who does the certification?

[Rick_L]

I read a lot of threads over there but I missed that.

It's bad enough to do this stuff, then to post about it, and then get compliments is a bit much.

[chevynut]

I just can't believe a guy would post pictures showing a lap-welded seam, then show the "mud" spread on it to make it smooth. To me, that's stuff that crappy shops do and don't tell anyone about. Then to half-ass throw together a piece of sheetmetal to make a missing piece when they're so cheap? Maybe the customer told him to do this stuff, but I doubt that's the case. Nobody like that would ever touch my car.

[chevynut]

I guess it's easier to mask off the instrument cluster and dash trim than to remove it. :eek: Interesting way of bracing the body by the door hinges.

http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136079&page=2

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0643.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0746.jpg

[markm]

Some of those guys over there would say it looked good attached with lag screws and duct tape. Others would say do whatever its your car.

[Rick_L]

Some of those guys over there would say it looked good attached with lag screws and duct tape. Others would say do whatever its your car.

Well said. There's a lot of low expectations and cheerleading going on over there.

[MP&C]

I think the main factor you will see in workmanship is the person's background. Someone who is used to using filler products because they came from an auto-body background will focus more on the final finish over how it looks in a bare finish. Someone who is doing their own project may start out in a similar manner, fixing defects using an abundance of filler, but may improve that as they gain experience and/or become aware of other methods. One would expect a persons skills to improve with experience, but that person has to have the desire to improve. I've seen work from quite a few guys that started in body work and moved into metal shaping, and now they are some of the best out there in producing accurate replacement parts and bodies. I can say what I do today is night and day different over some of my original attempts at body repair, and primarily it comes down to delving into metal shaping, trying to understand more of the processes, and making all attempts necessary to have any replacement parts as close as practical to the panel they will be replacing. A body man I'm not, I'm too f'n slow! :) I also can admit I still have a ways to go. But I think once someone gets more into metal finishing they will pay more attention to welds. Many people have spent quite a bit of time in trying to help others to improve their methods through various forums and workshops, and I've seen that it doesn't take much to put many guys on the right track. I've also come to realize that some are hacks, through and through, and will never change, and are actually proud of such work as this:


3992

The guy who did this has turned out some nice looking finished products, but I just cringe when looking at the in-process stuff as most of his welds looked like this.

[chevynut]

Well said, Robert. I guess I started doing this stuff with a lot higher expectations than some others. My Nomad is the first car I ever did any serious bodywork on and I'm self-taught, with zero formal training in bodywork or metalwork. I had never replaced a quarter panel before I replaced both of them on my Nomad. I had never replaced a floor or fabbed one. I have only worked on a handful of cars in my life doing some minor rust repair for friends long ago using lead for filler and didn't even charge some of them for the work. I learned to do lead work by reading about it and diving in. I would never pass anything like the pics above off on anyone I did work for and I know you wouldn't either. It's no wonder my car has taken over a decade to get to this point. LOL! :)

You would expect a "professional" restoration shop to do better work than you see in the pics I posted. I know this guy has been doing this for a long time, but maybe he's not charging enough to make it worth doing a better job or he has low expectations. I was mostly amazed at the crappy-looking wheelwell flap that he seemed so proud of, enough to post a picture of it. Maybe he was excited that he made a part to keep the quarter panel from flapping around lik it had to be doing. That's such an inexpensive part that as a customer I would have demanded that he use a repop to make it look right.

Can't wait to see what happens when someone here tips him off to my criticism. :)

[markm]

Can't wait to see what happens when someone here tips him off to my criticism.

I don't think you have anything to worry about Cnut, most of the guys like Hafrod and his buddy Fiddlerpin who cry to the moderators about people being mean don't post here. I almost forgot forgot Romax.

[Rick_L]

The guy over there doing this work has done some charity cases for members there and has gotten some good will out of it. One I remember was a gasser for a guy that had terminal cancer. I also get the feeling that he works pretty cheap. So maybe some of them are getting what they pay for, and they're happy because they have low expectations.

Sometimes we forget that there's a level of workmanship that some of us never would consider. The irony of that is when the same bunch sees a project car that's been butchered by a PO and they proceed to bad mouth that anonymous PO. This one had a pop riveted quarter panel and the "fix" was barely a step up.

[MP&C]

Rick, all good points. Many times the cost associated/agreed upon does not "pay" for the level of detail that many of us have come to expect. For someone on a budget, they are concerned with the "curb appeal" and not the details that will never be seen..

[markm]

Well put Rick and Robert,your comments remind me of the guy I worked for in college who was a notorious mudslinger. We used to call him Jim Schieb a takeoff on Earl. Bottom line he really did give people a good bang for their buck.

[Tabasco]

I'm glad no one can see my first "restoration". My friend had a '30 Model A we worked on every afternoon after school. We were 15 years old and broke. The fenders had some splits. We couldn't afford to get them welded so we pop riveted a patch on the back side, counter sunk the rivet heads with a ball peen hammer and bondoed over it. It looked good to us.

I haven't reached the skill level of Robert and Laslo, but I do much better work than I did in 1961.

4003

That's me sitting on the fender. The owner was the guy on the trunk.

[markm]

We have all did things back in the day we don't brag about, not all of them automotive related.

[chevynut]

A door is a bad place to do a lap weld, especially in this orientation where the seam is facing up and will collect water. What's this guy thinking? Why not butt-weld and finish it? I guess he can put seam sealer or undercoating all over the inside of the door to cover it up. I enjoy watching projects like this come together, and the final paint looks pretty good in the pics. I just cringe at what's under it.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0785.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0786.jpg

And it looks like his template doesn't fit too good at the rocker. I would have fixed that door and fit it to the body before I painted anything. It will be interesting to see if this comes together right. It might take some more "mud" to make it fit. :)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0788.jpg

[chevynut]

Well he must have done alright, because the door fits pretty good. I still think it's too far inboard at the bottom, based on tthis picture. I'm surprised...the template must have been off. ;)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/72COBRAJET/Rodgers%20dream%2056/IMG_0790.jpg

[markm]

Fits as well as things fit on these cars when new.

[chevynut]

Fits as well as things fit on these cars when new.

I guess that makes a good excuse. :D To me it looks like that door is inboard of the rocker around 1/4" at the front unless that's an optical illusion. I can't tell what it's like at the rear. Wait til the fender is on....that's when the issue shows up if it's really bad.

The door bottom is either on wrong or that was a bad template.

[chevynut]

If you paid the money to buy the whole '55 Nomad quarter, why would you do this? You can see the warpage from the welding.

http://www.trifive.com/photopostgallery/data/500/thumbs/55_quarter_001.JPG

I would have replaced the entire quarter instead of cutting it like that. It would have been a lot easier, and come out a lot better and you wouldn't need piles of bondo....

http://www.trifive.com/photopostgallery/data/500/thumbs/55_3_001.JPG

It looks like it turned out looking pretty good, but I bondo can hide a lot of crap.

http://www.trifive.com/photopostgallery/data/500/thumbs/55_primer_001.JPG

[markm]

I saw on the other site where they now sell the Nomad wheel well arch for Gassers, are you sure this guy had the whole quarter to start with, if he did I agree, why. I really hope this was not a 1000 dollar pannel they hacked up.

[chevynut]

are you sure this guy had the whole quarter to start with,

Yes, someone asked him if he bought whole Nomad quarters and he said he did. He could have replaced the whole thing using virtually no bondo if he did it right. Why replace only half of it and cut it where it's hard to keep it straight?

And not one person asks him that...all they do is tell him what a great job he's doing.

[markm]

No matter what kind of hack job you do, the cheerleaders over there will cheer them on. They will also tell you how good and long their junk runs with a 39.95 Skip White distributor or how fast a 150K junkyard moter is with a craigslist Eldebrock carb and 39.95 Summit cam. This guy spent good money and destroyed a good panel.

[Rick_L]

I thought the part discussed on the other site was a round arch specifically for a gasser.

This one:
http://cdn3.volusion.com/sjorj.kveuj/v/vspfiles/photos/GDS-QP13-55WA-2T.jpg

Go to Woody's site and you'll see it for sale, it's a Golden Star deal.

It looks to be too small for a real gasser tire.

A hack could have that installed with a gallon or so of bondo per side.

[MP&C]

In all fairness, most guys new to bodywork and asking for "guidance" on forums will be told to use the smallest amount of a panel as you can. I've read that on MANY forums. I know most of us here have taken the other stance of looking at the panel and replacing to the higher crown areas to help hold the shape, place seams where accessible for planishing, or just plain use the most of it that you can if it means going to factory seams. You tell someone how it should be done, and two posts later some hack explains how easy it was using pop rivets and roofing tar to seal it up. Suddenly the right way looks insurmountable and another hack is born.

[chevynut]

In all fairness, most guys new to bodywork and asking for "guidance" on forums will be told to use the smallest amount of a panel as you can. I've read that on MANY forums. I know most of us here have taken the other stance of looking at the panel and replacing to the higher crown areas to help hold the shape, place seams where accessible for planishing, or just plain use the most of it that you can if it means going to factory seams. You tell someone how it should be done, and two posts later some hack explains how easy it was using pop rivets and roofing tar to seal it up. Suddenly the right way looks insurmountable and another hack is born.

Robert, that's understandable, I guess. But I think he could have done a lot better job by using only 1-3" or so outside the Nomad fenderwell lip. That would have been easier to manage the warpage, and with some planishing as he went he probably could have kept it pretty straight. Too bad he didn't ask for advice before he started in on it.

I guess it doesn't bother some guys to use 1/2" of bondo, as long as it's reasonably straight when it's finished. And I like how some guys refer to 1/8" to 1/4" of bondo as a "skim coat". :)

[Rick_L]

And I like how some guys refer to 1/8" to 1/4" of bondo as a "skim coat".

Well that keeps that pesky metal from showing through the bondo and becoming a high spot. :p

[567chevys]

Just glad that's not my car , But there is shops around that do that type of scab work very sad!! In a few years bondo cracks someone will be crying or pissed off.

[chevynut]

Nothing posted about this project in 3 weeks after a flurry of activity. In fact, he hasn't posted at all in 13 days. I wonder if he's trying to fix that door or what the holdup is. :?

Hope it's not a major health or family issue. :(

[markm]

IT has neen quite over ther on ths project update front, my favotite has been complaining about the cold weather, I guess he cannot afford heat.

[Rick_L]

"Someone woke up alert"

Two months later, someone over there read this thread and posted about it. Might get interesting.

[chevynut]

There's more than one way to get others to find out about this site. :) :)

It's interesting how guys bash other restorers for lap welding panels and putting "mud" on to straighten it but they praise the work when one of their online buddies does it. Nobody is ever critical of the work someone does over there, no matter how bad it is. I still say that wheelwell flap, maybe a $20 part, is a POS. I would demand that it be removed and replaced with a repop if that was my car.

[chevynut]

LOL! The guys over there are still defending the shoddy work of a "Trifive certified restoration shop".

So "sleeper55" is now 'Bootjack" and is pissed about being banned from this site. LOL! I didn't even know he was banned...I thought he just left and I'm glad he did. What a pos loudmouth socialist pig. All he ever did is bitch about things everyone else said here and never offered anything constructive here. The name "Bootjack" fits him well.

One guy complains about spelling and grammar, and "bootjack" can't even spell "shoty". LMAO! :D

And that "winch57" calls me bigoted and then this "tolerant and understanding hypocrite" says this in his sig:

""I like women a lot, I just dont like it when they talk to much" Leroy Jethro Gibbs
"The only wheel with a Diameter bigger than 15" you will ever see on any of my cars is the steering wheel!! http://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/cool0012.gif Wise old man say "18"+ Wheels are for Navigators, Escalades and Circus Wagons"

What dickheads.

[chevynut]

This is the best reply over there so far, by Misuraco:

"I have never seen fighting or rudeness from anyone. There has been a lot of that. Depends on the topic

It's bad enough to do this stuff, then to post about it, and then get compliments is a bit much Have to agree with that. Haven't seen a lot of bad work posted over the years, but when it is posted, no one here points it out. The poster normally gets complimented on his work."

I wonder why he quit posting here. He was one of the first guys on this site.

[chevynut]

The post over there shows again what kind of whiny little Nazi sleeper55 aka Bootjack is. He doesn't like people voicing their opinions about anything he doesn't agree with, or if he thinks it hurts someone's feelings.

Notice in my thread here I never attacked the guy who did this shoddy work personally, and I think he's probably a great guy. What I posted my opinion about is his shoddy workmanship on that 56. NOT ONE of the whiners over there have said a thing about this kind of work, only that I said something about it, and they don't like what I said. Tough shit. It's my opinion. I wouldn't pass off work like that to anyone. And when there's a guy paying to have his car "restored" he should get quality work. Maybe he loves that handmade piece of junk flap, but I wouldn't have it on my car if I was paying. In fact, it probably cost more to make it than it would have to buy a new one.

Sleeper55/Bootjack is just a chickenshit little Canadian socialistic Nazi that tries to squelch free speech. He's attacked me PERSONALLY for voicing my opinions. In fact, if I had a mind to do it I'd sue TriFive and Bootjack for libel. And the other whiner probably lost an argument with me and his butt's still hurting. He's probably the idiot who said he didn't believe in the laws of physics. LMAO! :) :)

[markm]

Saw reply's from Sleeper and Romax, thanks Rick for pointing this out.

[markm]

Any one notice 2800 views on this thread, must be getting some visitors.

[chevynut]

The little nazi sleeper is having a good time trying to bash me on his thread. What a nitwit.....like I really care what the dikhead Canadian thinks.

The problem is those guys just don't get it. It's not the car owner doing that work. If Roger was building his own car and made those junk wheelwell flaps, it would be different. That's HIS choice to make them or buy new ones. But this is supposed to be a "Trifive Certified Restoration Shop" that's doing the work for him for money. And I still say doing lap welds along the whole quarter and across the doors is shoddy work, especially for a professional shop. This isn't the car owner doing it himself like they keep saying. It's supposed to be a business that knows what they're doing. It must not take much to get a "Trifive Certification". :)

I'll bet that if someone would have posted those pics and said they just bought a car and put those pictures up saying the previous owner made those flaps and did the lap welds, they would have had a different response. I've seen it before over there...they bash other people's work and cars as long as it's not a TriFive member.

[Rick_L]

I'll bet that if someone would have posted those pics and said they just bought a car and put those pictures up saying the previous owner made those flaps and did the lap welds, they would have had a different response.

They have and do. If I recall correctly it was done the same day even.

Obviously there is not much windage adjustment to go from being criticized to being the criticizer. Hypocrites. Their only honor is they usually will not attack each other, but they will gladly attack those here.

[chevynut]

I'm not surprised that Sleeper55 aka Bootjack was "shocked" at the comments here....LOL! :D If he was here he'd be trying to get this thread removed. That's what a good little nazi does. ;)

[NickP]

I've seen it before over there...they bash other people's work and cars as long as it's not a TriFive member.

Here's the thing I think that some need to see and understand - membership; regardless of what is published crosses over to many sites, even beyond the trifive scene. So, calling someone or, in this instance actually, racial profiling in a sense ("other site") calls many of their own members and most recently, new visitors (undisclosed) the same, as stated for the membership here. I still think, for what it's worth, were we, as a whole, to set the bar higher and stay within this group specific to commentary, our site will grow. If we don't water our seeds, no one else will.
Just my 2₵

[chevynut]

Hey Nick, Sleeper/Bootjack started it as usual since his mission in life is to stop people from saying things he doesn't like. All I did is point out what I thought was shoddy work by a pro resto shop. It doesn't matter if it was here or there, I would have still mentioned it. ;)

I don't get your "racial profiling" comment. :)

[NickP]

Hey Nick, Sleeper/Bootjack started it as usual since his mission in life is to stop people from saying things he doesn't like. All I did is point out what I thought was shoddy work by a pro resto shop. It doesn't matter if it was here or there, I would have still mentioned it. ;)

I don't get your "racial profiling" comment. :)

They, the other site, call all of us on the other site (here) what ever they may, yet give no thought to whom their membership includes. The RP may be a poor choice of classification or words but at the time I penned it I couldn't think of a better term. I mean no disrespect to anyone. My vocabulary just failed me.

[markm]

I wonder how long before that thread bashing this site gets closed. I think bootjack is a good Nazi name.

[chevynut]

I wonder how long before that thread bashing this site gets closed. I think bootjack is a good Nazi name.

Yeah I know that sleeper55 kept messaging Sid trying to get my posts removed when he was still here. Luckily Sid told him that we don't do that and to quit reading my posts if he didn't like them. But I noticed Sleeper55's ID and all of his posts are gone...who did that? Maybe he should register again as LittleNazi55. :D

The thing is Romax aka Bob McLaughlin did exactly the same thing here. I thought they were the same person, but they're not. They're both Canadian so maybe it's a Canadian thing to try to squelch other's views.

[Rick_L]

Looks like Otis has closed the thread to protect the whiners.

You thought romax and sleeper55 were the same guy? Way different in most ways, alike in a few.

[markm]

I think Bob Mac and Romax are same guy, Sleeper55 is bootjack55. I guess I called it right on that thread getting closed. I wonder if Romax/Bobs family moved to Canada from Mass, I sure hope not.

[Troy]

This is funny sounds like a bunch of women complaining about the girl not present!!!

[chevynut]

What "picture" that's supposedly his is sleeper55/bootjack yapping about? Somehow he seems obsessed about it.

[Rick_L]

I find it ironic that the low expectation crowd over there got spurred by a post from sleeper55. If he'd posted the crap he posted here he wouldn't have lasted 5 posts over there, if that. As it was, I don't think he was banned here, though he was certainly a candidate for being the first one.

What's with the Canadians here anyway? Remember Graeme? And then there's romax. Winter must be tough. Thing is I know many Canadians in my industry and they are great guys and hard workers that I count among my friends.

[567chevys]

What "picture" that's supposedly his is sleeper55/bootjack yapping about? Somehow he seems obsessed about it.

I think he is full of it !!!
The 3 cars that are part of the logo belong to Dan Nordlof , I have his permission to use them !!

[Maddog]

Let's see, where do I start................I guess I won't. I can only say Otis must not have wanted his followers to see that he posts over here, they would have figured it must be ok then. Carry on with the silly rants.

[markm]

I find it ironic that the low expectation crowd over there got spurred by a post from sleeper55. If he'd posted the crap he posted here he wouldn't have lasted 5 posts over there, if that. As it was, I don't think he was banned here, though he was certainly a candidate for being the first one.

What's with the Canadians here anyway? Remember Graeme? And then there's romax. Winter must be tough. Thing is I know many Canadians in my industry and they are great guys and hard workers that I count among my friends.

The low expectation crowd and the people who buy Skip White Ignitions and put Summit house brand cams in junkyard moter's appear to be one in the same.

As far as Canadians go I used to work with one and found him to be a great guy. Additionally met some of them camping at the Indy 500 in the early 90's also great guys and they were drinking alot. Maybe it's trifives that turn them.

On Otis and his closing comment he does not have the members he thinks if he still counts those of us who have left.

[chevynut]

I don't have any Canadian friends that I can think of but I think they're decent people in general. I do think they tend to be more socialistic than us in the USA and put up with a lot of draconian government regulation. For some reason Sleeper/bootjack has this "need" to protect everyone when something is said about them. We got into it about gays, blacks, and socialism in general. It seems he's a genuine liberal, as is Romax55/Bob Mclaughlin based on their posts here. Except they're liberals who want to shut others up because they don't like what they say. I can't stand liberals.

I posted info about the membership over there before and there aren't that many active members, and a large number of members who have signed up in the past have never visited again. I don't know what the true membership is there, but it's not hard to see by sorting on last posting date or login date in the member list. The thing is there are more active members there than there are here, and that needs to change. I just hope the nitpicky little whiners don't come here. :)

[chevynut]

I'm still really curious how that passenger door ended up matching the fender and rocker on that 56. It looks like it turned out nice-looking, but I shudder to think what's under that paint. Some day someone's going to strip that car down to bare metal again and say "WTF??" :confused: :D

[markm]

No fear of the cry babies showing up here Cnut, so far I have predicted the outcry over there, the closing of the thread over there and will now will go on record stating the aforementioned don't have the stones to post without overbearing moderators to hide behind.

[chevynut]

I don't know what the true membership is there, but it's not hard to see by sorting on last posting date or login date in the member list. :)

Funny. It looks like now the "last activity" column has been removed from the member list so nobody can see the many thousands that haven't logged on in years.

[markm]

Funny. It looks like now the "last activity" column has been removed from the member list so nobody can see the many thousands that haven't logged on in years.


I represent that comment, its been over a year since I got e-mailed and told to be nice to the Chinese junk Skip White distributor loving crowd, I choose to leave instead. These are same guys who buy $39 Summit cam kits and wonder why they go flat.