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chevynut
02-09-2015, 03:07 PM
Since I have already blocked across the door to fender gaps I figured I might as well start the final teardown to paint. I have removed the hood, fenders, inner fenders, radiator support, splash pan, and bumper. I plan to spray one more coat of primer on the fenders and hood, then they'll be ready for the final sanding and the squirting of the colors.

There's a lot of parts since basically all of this is custom. Pretty much everything has been primed and blocked so the parts are going to storage until I get the body ready. Right now I'm trying to get to a bare frame to get it painted. There's a few things I need/want to do to it before paint, but nothing huge. It's going to be sprayed body color with gloss clear.

It looks kinda like it did a few years ago. LOL! :)

4035 4036 4037

The front bumper and liftgate are going out for chrome soon....I have to heli-coil some of the liftgate holes first. I plan to leave the rest of the body intact so I can finish the interior construction work. It's gonna get busy. :)

Bluegrass Trifive
02-09-2015, 05:23 PM
Wow, a major milestone about to be reached! I bet you can't wait to see it in paint.

MP&C
02-09-2015, 06:38 PM
There's a lot of us that can't wait to see it in paint :D And that same sentiment goes both ways I'm quite sure..

chevynut
02-09-2015, 06:59 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. ;)

Yes, I'm excited but nervous at the same time. It's a big step and I have to push to get it done.

I really don't have room to remove the body from the frame in my shop right now. I have the gasser frame in there, almost finished, and another C4 conversion frame in the jig. I've decided I'm not going to do any more conversions for a few weeks, until I get my car sorted out and ready for paint. I will have to get the gasser frame out and assembled (probably tomorrow evening) then finish the C4 conversion enough to move it over to the last stall to finish. Then I can move the jig out so I can get the body off the frame, set the body down on stands where it is and move the frame over to one of the other stalls to work on it and get it on the rotisserie.

Once the frame is painted, it's going into the new shop for assembly. I will be polishing the suspension parts, getting them ready for bright anodizing. I'm not going with chrome because it's too damned expensive, and I don't think I want it for a car I plan to drive anyhow. I never wanted strictly a show car. I thought about powder coating, but the bright anodizing looks better imo. There's a lot of pieces to polish, paint, and plate to finish up the frame.

I plan to go through the engine and clean it all up, possibly change out the cam, and change the rings. There should be no major work required, just disassembly, cleaning, and re-assembly. Then I'll paint it and drop it back in. I may try to run it before I put the body on, either in the frame or on a dyno.

Doing the disassembly I realized how many small brackets and stuff there really are to this car. I think some of this I'll paint myself, and just let the painter do the big stuff that everyone sees.

carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)
02-10-2015, 05:59 AM
sounds good. :cool:

Troy
02-10-2015, 02:37 PM
It's about time!!!:D Well I'm in and subscribed!!!! Now get off the computer and get to work!!!!

567chevys
02-10-2015, 09:39 PM
Wow big steps , bet you can't wait to see it painted ,
isnt it funny how it is when you build a shop it's never big enought :cry:

Sid

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-11-2015, 04:04 PM
JMHO painting the frame body color will make it look cheap. Your frame and design is a masterpiece and I would paint it to stand out on it’s on. Maybe use the charcoal you have planned for under the hood. But do as you wish it is your baby after all. I have never built or owned a show car so what do I know.
Here is an example.
http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2014/06/1955Chevrolet150_05_800.jpg (http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1955Chevrolet150_05_800.jpg)

This is a 56 bronze nomad for sale just down the road from me.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/IMG_1051_1.jpg

Tabasco
02-11-2015, 04:46 PM
This is a 56 bronze nomad for sale just down the road from me.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/IMG_1051_1.jpg

Can you let me know more about the Nomad for sale? Any link or more pictures?

chevynut
02-11-2015, 06:05 PM
Hmmmm, Rocky you have me thinking. Things come and go and I know a few years ago the "in" thing was to paint the frame the body color. I do think it looks nice that way, and my suspension will be all polished. I wouldn't paint the frame the rear beige color, so charcoal would be the only other option. I don't want to introduce another color.

If I go that route, now is the time to decide. I was going to order the orange paint tomorrow, because I need it for the frame.

What do you other guys think? It's a major re-set to my plans, but I would consider it. Thanks for the "jog" Rocky.

MP&C
02-11-2015, 08:18 PM
Definitely Charcoal Metallic, definitely.

WagonCrazy
02-11-2015, 10:07 PM
I vote NOT to paint the frame the same color as the body (orange). A gray or silver color would look better in my opinion.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-12-2015, 07:31 AM
Can you let me know more about the Nomad for sale? Any link or more pictures?

I sent you a PM.

Chevynut, I do agree I have seen show cars that are painted all the same color but everything not painted is chromed so if you're going to bling it like that(every thing polished) I can see painting it all one color if you like that. They certainly look good setting on a pedestal with mirrors under them.....didn't mean to throw a link in your chain. My examples I showed do not represent that so kind of unfair comparison.

Bihili
02-12-2015, 08:30 AM
What do you other guys think?.

Since your asking,

Brighter colors display better at cars shows whenever lights and mirrors are used.
Darker colors are more for drivers. IMO

chevynut
02-12-2015, 08:58 AM
No problem Rocky, it's good that I re-think this whole thing because it has been my plan for the entire build, more than a decade now. So now is the time to take another fresh look at my plans. ;)

My plan did change a little. My painter suggested that I paint the frame with gloss clear, then use matte clear on the floorboards. He said that provides a nice contrast so things don't all look the same. I like the look of the matte clear in some areas, and planned to use it on the floor, firewall, inner fenders, and possibly the intake. Here's some examples using the same colors, but with the matte clear under the hood. The firewall color on the Vette is the same as the fenders, just different clear. Don't know why there's so many silver examples....

4045 4047 4049

On the other hand, this gloss looks beautiful too:

4048 4050

My only concern about the matte clear is that I read if you rub it too much it can turn somewhat shiny.

567chevys
02-12-2015, 09:03 AM
Definitely Charcoal Metallic, definitely.


I agree look at my race car , I hate the color if the frame was one color like charcoal Metaillic or Dark color I would be happy

chevynut
02-12-2015, 09:11 AM
Rocky, my frame would look a lot like this one, except orange. :) He did the polishing and bright anodizing on his suspension parts too, and is the guy who recommended it to me. His car is gray, though.

4055 4056 4057

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-12-2015, 10:14 AM
link no work

chevynut
02-12-2015, 12:41 PM
Here's what my painter has to say about it, after I asked his opinion. He's painted some really nice cars...

http://niceridesrestoration.com/gallery/index.html

"If it was my car I would do the frame body color and the floorpans body color with matte clear. I think it will look bitchin'. It would not look bad to do the frame charcoal and the pans bodycolor but personally I would never do the pans gloss finish. The gloss shows all of the waves in the sheetmetal, it gets scratched from cleaning it and it's simply too much gloss underneath the car with everything else. "

"As far as matte finishes go I think I have a lot of experience with them. The finish I use is extremely durable and resistant to chemicals and touch. The old ones not so much.... Don't worry about the durability of the matte clear - it is tough. "

Rick_L
02-12-2015, 01:17 PM
I'm with the ones that think the charcoal gray or similar will look better on the frame. I think you need contrast down there. For the same reason you're doing that in the engine compartment.

Your painter is bragging up the matte clear - see if he'll share on his material and process and post it up.

chevynut
02-12-2015, 01:29 PM
I know what his material is...it's PPG D8115 and D8117. He's not trying to push anything on me, as he'll do anything I want. I just respect his opinion knowing his reputation around here for high end paint. I personally think the matte clear looks great, and gives just a little bit of different "texture" to the paintjob.

Not sure which way to go on frame color. I'm not trying to make the frame stand out a lot and think I would rather have it blend with the floor better. I personally think black or semi-gloss black makes a frame look "cheap". I do like charcoal and pewter colored frames. Like I said, I don't want to introduce another color, so it's either charcoal or orange.

The charcoal would match my leather. Here's the leather color on the orange.

4058

I'm thinking one of these colors (same as my truck) would be close:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/19017199.jpg

http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2008_toyota_rav4_4wd_4dr_4_cyl_4_spd_at_sport_char coal_96635119765690846.jpg

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-12-2015, 02:23 PM
I like this color grey better. But I’m bia’s sense it’s on my car. It turns from dark grey to almost gold depending on lighting. And it looks good with orange lol.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/1111phr-061965-oldsmobile-cutlassleft-side.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/1111phr-111965-oldsmobile-cutlassrear-right.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/1965-Oldsmobile-Cutlass-Restomod-For-Sale.jpg

chevynut
02-12-2015, 03:30 PM
Rocky, that color looks brownish or taupe (gray-brown) in the pics.

I have flexibility right now to change the charcoal color if I want. It can get frustrating choosing colors, as you probably know.

Here's how I got here.....

First, I decided that I wanted a tan color for my interior. I tried to find some seatbelts that would go with the tan. So picked up some seat belts that were called "taupe" from Julianos. They weren't even close to what I wanted, especially the plastic. So I decided to get something that contrasted instead, and charcoal seemed like a good choice. I didn't want a lighter gray in the interior. So the seatbelts sent me off on the charcoal direction.

Now I had to figure out how to integrate that charcoal into my interior. So I did the interior design you saw. We also picked a nice matching charcoal wool carpet and wool headliner. So now I'm trying to figure out how to bring the charcoal outside the car's interior. It will probably be on the engine and some other parts like rollbars, diff, etc.

I saw this car at SEMA and kinda liked the color combo, but I call that "graphite" not charcoal. I like the color of the cobra better.

4059 4060

chevynut
02-12-2015, 03:35 PM
Here's an example of the matte clear. They darkened up the paint too, which I would not have done. This is "copperhead" from a Viper.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KmjS-1MQ3Nc/UHzugvyyaaI/AAAAAAAAqOI/W6WlYSddaM4/s1600/08.JPG

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-12-2015, 05:01 PM
I was just messing with you those look great. Color is the hardest part it drove me nuts.

Rick_L
02-12-2015, 05:04 PM
Not sure what they were trying to do with that hood, but they failed it for me by changing the color.

Thanks for posting the matte clear product numbers.

There are all kinds of greys with brown or gold in them, with varying amounts. Two that interest me are both called "pewter". One was a GM color from the early 2000s. The other is a Mercedes color from the late 2000s. The GM color is a bit darker. The "gun metal" on the Cobra looks to be a good color to me also. Probably a better choice for a frame if the rest is the metallic orange.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 06:12 AM
Rick I like all the colors you mentioned. I wanted a gunmetal grey when we bought our truck in 2002 but my wife picked the pewter we still own it. I likem both. My car is titanium grey Nissan GTR color. I was looking at 2005 mustang mineral grey when I chose this color instead. It really does change multi colors see link.
https://www.google.com/search?q=titanium+gtr&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=nQTeVJ2cG8OfgwS_t4BQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=356
You got me thinking grey nomad with pewter top.... Darn it now I'm changing again.....

Rick_L
02-13-2015, 07:39 AM
rocky, what year is the titanium color on the Nissan GTR?

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 07:48 AM
rocky, what year is the titanium color on the Nissan GTR?
2009 code KAC, also known as shadow grey same paint code.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/gpmad1.jpg (http://s282.photobucket.com/user/rockytoppers1/media/gpmad1.jpg.html)

chevynut
02-13-2015, 08:12 AM
When you get right down to it, all of these colors called "charcoal", "pewter", "gun-metal", etc. are really just different shades of gray. Silver is just very light gray, and charcoal is very dark gray. In between you have "graphite" and all sorts of other names. Some may have some browns or blues added to vary the shade a little, but we're really talking about "100's of shades of gray". :)

Talked to my interior guy last night to get his opinion on my frame, and he suggested painting the back of the car charcoal!! :(

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 08:27 AM
You'll be the reverse of the Dmax mad. Wait till hangs the trim before you let your painter spray lol. Might look pretty good with your interior and engine theme. I thought you photo chop now get to it...
Sense I've seen your ideas for the engine bay your costom sheet metal is going to hide all the frame from the top so have you considered how it will look from the bottom as far as flowing the charcoal to the bottom. This might help on the decession to what color the frame should be. Grey or orange. Hope that makes sense.

chevynut
02-13-2015, 09:14 AM
Well my colors aren't anywhere close to Dmax :D, but yes it would be reverse of that. I have thought about using black in the back. But I don't feel that much charcoal would look good with the orange. Black would look better. I guess I've always really like the stock look with beige in the back. The one below looks so classy to me and I've always loved it. I think the orange just snazzies it up some.

I can't believe I'm going through this again at this stage. LOL!

http://image.superchevy.com/f/features/trifive/sucp_1201_1956_chevy_bel_air/34948298/sucp-1201-16-1956-Chevy-Bel-Air.jpg

http://image.superchevy.com/f/features/pre1977full/sucp_1108_1956_chevy_bel_air_zomad/31471337/sucp-1108-1956-chevy-bel-air-zomad-002.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL97/465705/840294/236103240.jpg

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 11:04 AM
All depends on what statement you wish to make. They both look great!! The bottom style has that original nomad feel the top one flat says all out hotrod to me. To make it easier on you this late in the game follow your heart lol I vote bottom.

chevynut
02-13-2015, 11:48 AM
Rocky, I have always wanted my Nomad to appear close to "stock" on the outside, and that includes a stock-like 2-tone color scheme. The giveaway will be the stance, wheels/brakes, bumpers, and paint. I haven't "shaved" anything outside. Underneath the car, under the hood, and in the interior it will be anything but stock.

I'm leaning toward my original plan right now. I am going to visit my interior guy this weekend in Denver to see the new tan leather samples he has for me to look at.

I've been considering a tri-coat beige for the rear, similar to one of the colors below. It looks like it has ground glass in it and I think it would look better with the orange and more modern than a "non-metallic" paint. I don't want a lot of pearl in it, because I don't like the pearl color shift.

http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2013_lexus_rx_350_base_beige_in_appleton_wisconsin _7300004414976122042.jpg
http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2008_beige_buick_enclave_for_sale_in_alma_ar_72921 _7110055421803699562.jpg
http://www.joy2day.com/cars/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/toyota-pirius-beige-metallic-color-photo-2011-model.jpg

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 04:49 PM
I like this

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_8.jpg

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
02-13-2015, 05:10 PM
This is a orange and gold 55 we saw at CTC last Oct. Pictures do not do justice this was one of the nicest 55 we saw. The color combo really works.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/IMG_0643.jpg (http://s282.photobucket.com/user/rockytoppers1/media/IMG_0643.jpg.html)

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/IMG_0612.jpg

chevynut
02-13-2015, 05:14 PM
Yuk. I hate flames, and I think a 56 BelAir looks best 2-tone. The stainless trim on them is so beautiful, imo, that it has to be used as a paint divider. I just don't like 1-color 56 Nomads. And that orange isn't even like mine :).

Here's a graphite rear and kind of orange car....I don't care for it:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8070/8183913821_a1e60bbccb_z.jpg

This is pretty if it was more orange...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lxdgL6nxqt0/TTNHmxzxeOI/AAAAAAAACAg/JitRGHHeTg8/s1600/nomad-56--custom.jpg

And this is another Nomad that stole my color scheme that I've had for a decade :(:

http://image.streetrodderweb.com/f/events/1309_nsra_northwest_street_rod_nationals/59633475/1956-chevy-nomad.jpg

This is what it would look like with black...I don't like it as well:

http://ddspecialtycars.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/56nomad8.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5172/5417012906_699fcf7fe7_z.jpg

Here's an interesting variation on paint scheme, with the roof the rear color. Again, I think the smooth lines are messed up by doing this. I like the color on the rear of the car:

http://www.cars-on-line.com/photo/39700/56chev39733-1.jpg

Here's a different one too:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/justdande/Completed%20Model%20Cars/1956%20Chevy%20Nomad/100_0950.jpg

Rick_L
02-13-2015, 07:09 PM
rocky, thanks for the heads up on the year for the titanium Nissan color. I know it by its other name - a guy at work has a Z convertible that color and it's been on my list.

Cnut, agree with your comments about a 56 BA needing to be two tone based on the stainless trim. Also agree on your thoughts on the metallic or pearl in the beige color. I have a mental picture of what would be proper but I don't know of any OEM color that way - but I'll bet there's one somewhere.

I was reading a bit on the PPG D8115/8117 matte and semi gloss clears. Some said you need to shoot gloss clear first, then the matte or semigloss - others say just shoot it on the base. Do you know which your painter prefers? I'd guess the latter for underside stuff.

chevynut
02-13-2015, 08:27 PM
Rick, my painter mixes the 8115 and 8117 to get the sheen he likes. He says one is too flat, and the other too shiny. I don't remember what proportions he uses. You shoot it right over the base. I suppose you could shoot it over gloss clear....I see no reason why that wouldn't work but it's kind of a waste.

Thanks for the discussion and the ideas guys.

Rick_L
02-14-2015, 07:20 AM
I think the idea of shooting the matte or semi gloss over the gloss clear is that for a topcoat, the flatter stuff is not as durable - and spraying it over regular clear might let you repair it once without getting into the base. Probably no desire to do that on the underside. The matte/semi gloss can get stained, and you can't polish it to fix that.

chevynut
02-25-2015, 08:21 AM
The shop is getting cleared out. :p

Last night we finished assembly of the latest C4 frame we have been working on and took it out of the frame jig. We welded up and installed the AME center section and the clip is completely welded up and back on the frame. All we have left to do is final welding and fabrication of a transmission crossmember.

We moved the frame jig into my new storage area to make room for my two cherry-pickers to get the Nomad body off the frame soon. I have decided I'm going to take a slight pause on C4 prject builds so I can get my Nomad project rolling. I also have to set up a new supplier for laser-cut parts, so this is great timing.

Bihili
02-25-2015, 09:44 AM
I have decided I'm going to take a slight pause on C4 project builds so I can get my Nomad project rolling. .

Yeah, we all want to see this nine year project on the road.:grin:

chevynut
02-25-2015, 10:02 AM
Uh, I hate to say it but it's been longer than 9 years. :(

chevynut
02-27-2015, 09:10 AM
I got the liftgate removed, threads chased, crated, and it should be in Madmook's hands today for re-chroming. He straightened it a few years ago and it fit great. I also removed the tailgate and blocked it with 320. I have some very small sand-thrus and a couple of tiny spots where I need some spot putty. Then I'll shoot it again and do the final sanding for paint.

Now I want to get the car up on ramps or blocks so I can take a look under it to address anything I need to before I remove the body. I think I may have to do a little clearancing of the rear floor under the seat for my torque arm, and I want to determine the best position of my O2 sensors. Now that I have a tube bender and more fab experience, I may look for more opportunity to brace the frame before I paint it and the best time to do that is with the body on. There shouldn't be much more than that.

chevynut
03-04-2015, 12:23 PM
Got some more disassembly done.... I put the car up on ramps and blocks so I could get under it. Removed all my wiring harnesses, brake system, all the S&P engine accessories, intake manifold, Raingear, and all the throttle linkage. I clearanced the floor for my torque arm but I will weld the patch in when it's on the rotisserie. I probably should have lowered the upper bolt slightly when I designed it, but I don't know if I had the body on at that time or not. Not going back there again.

The body mount bolts are all removed so the body is ready to come off when I'm done with everything I want to get done before removing it. Talked to my painter and he's ready for the frame whenever I am. :)

4152 4153 4154

MP&C
03-04-2015, 08:30 PM
The countdown begins!

chevynut
03-05-2015, 08:37 AM
I did the final welding on my A/C bracket and gas pedal bracket, both of which were just tacked in place. I have a list of 'to do's" that I've been collecting to try to make sure I don't forget something. Lots of details!

Custer55
03-05-2015, 06:28 PM
It's just a matter of personal taste, I did my 55 in the late 80's with the frame done in the red of the red & white body color. and the bottom of the body painted black. I am working on C4 conversion right now and was thinking I might paint the frame a dark gray or charcoal to go with the aluminum Corvette parts. It will look nice whatever color you end up doing.
Brian

chevynut
03-15-2015, 08:27 AM
Well I have pretty much everything done that I wanted to do with the body on the frame. I clamped my positive battery cable to the toeboard to clear the header and marked the length for attaching the starter end terminal. My batter cable runs inside the frame through a conduit from the battery disconnect located behind the passenger wheelwell. I thought now was the right time to finalize the cable length so I didn't have to pull it out of a painted frame. I marked where I need a couple of holes through the floor and firewall for electrical wires. I also marked where I need to weld battery ground studs to the frame.

I have all the body mount bolts removed, lifting chains ready to go, and the body is ready to lift off. At this point I can't think of anything else I need/want to do with the body on. I have a customer coming to pick up his C4 conversion frame early this week, so I think I'm going to wait until then to remove it so he can see how it all fits together, and make more room in the shop. I can work on the interior stuff in the meantime.

567chevys
03-15-2015, 11:39 AM
Can't wait to see it with Color on it !!
It will be sweet !!

chevynut
03-16-2015, 08:15 PM
The guys from Nebraska picked up their C4 frame today, and I moved everything out of my way to remove the body. I got the cherry pickers set up, removed the shifter, and realized that I still need to figure out the routing for my e-brake cables.

I'm using Lokar e-brake cables with a Lokar foot-operated e-brake. Has anyone done this? I'm having a hard time figuring out were to route the cables. If I can't figure it out I may have to go with the electric e-brake and run the cables through the floor under the rear seat. :(

WagonCrazy
03-16-2015, 09:12 PM
I still have to figure out the eBrake setup for my Nomad as well. I’d like to use a foot pedal and route a cable via pulleys under the body, between the frame and underbody. There should be about 1/2 inch or so space. The real dilemma is how to hook up the stock C4 rear brake cables to a central cable coming from the front. I just haven’t envisioned that yet.

chevynut
03-16-2015, 10:05 PM
Paul, Lokar makes all the stuff to do that. I'm more interested in the actual routing of the cable from the passenger side to the driver's side. You have to somehow cross the driveshaft tunnel and I haven't studied that in detail yet. I already have the cables (black housing) and I'm considering running mine on top of the driver's side frame rail too. Bruce told me it was "easy" too hook them up but I don't think he ever explained it.

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/cc-underdash-fh-ebrakes/ec8001u2.png

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/universal-ebrake-cables/universalbrakecables_ss2.png

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/rearbrake-clevis-kits/clevis.png

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/universal-ebrake-cables/app-chart-fs.jpg

Rick_L
03-17-2015, 06:59 AM
Just run it across the body just in front of the rear axle. I don't know what a wagon body looks like there, but a car body has a near vertical wall there. The cables can have some moderate bends.

Look under a late 60s/early 70s car for hints. They have a sheathed cable from the factory.

Also, if you feel time pressure, this is something that could be done after paint.

chevynut
03-17-2015, 07:57 AM
Thanks Rick, that area behind the rear seat looks like a good place to get above the driveshaft if I can make the bends without messing up the cable. Further forward, I can't see where I would route the cable unless I went under the driveshaft at my transmission mount. But I don't know if the cable is long enough to do that and the exhaust pipes run through that area so there's not a lot of room. I also have to get around the dogbones on the IRS so I'll look at how the Corvette did it. I don't want to do this after paint if I can help it.

42004201

Rick_L
03-17-2015, 11:40 AM
I think the cables Lokar provides have quite a bit of extra length. Remember that you are going to run a single cable from the actuator to the splitter which transitions you from 1 to 2 cables; it is located somewhere in the lengthwise run (you choose the location). The further back you put the splitter, the shorter your rear cables will be.

chevynut
03-17-2015, 01:32 PM
Well I got the e-brake cables laid out. I don't really like having the cables looping around the frame and hanging down like they have to for suspension travel, but what else can you do? :(

I routed the passenger side cable under the frame and up on the vertical part of the floor like you suggested, Rick, right above the top of the driveshaft tunnel where the stock pinion snubber was. It seems like the best place to route it. I put two stainless Kugel line clamps on the cable back there and ran the cable to the top of the driver's side frame rail. The driver's side cable just loops under the frame rail and joins the other one on top. There's barely room for the cables under the rear floorpan, where it gets close to the frame. From there, I ran the cables up to the location where the floor raises under the front seat. There is just enough cable to get there, luckily. That's where I'm going to mount the supports on top of the frame since there's plenty of room. Then from there the single cable goes up to the Lokar foot brake.

Rick_L
03-17-2015, 05:08 PM
I’d like to use a foot pedal and route a cable via pulleys under the body, between the frame and underbody. There should be about 1/2 inch or so space.

Wagoncrazy, think hard about whether you want to run plain cable over pulleys. This will require that your cable runs to be "line of sight" between pulleys and any connections. This is going to require a setup that looks similar to the stock layout, and it will be difficult to get past all your exhaust pipes and mufflers.

On the other hand, if you use a sheathed cable like the ones Lokar supplies, you don't have to run a "line of sight" installation. You have the flexiblility to run the cable anywhere it fits as long as you don't try to bend it to a radius that's too small.

chevynut
03-17-2015, 08:51 PM
Here's how/where I ended up doing my e-brake cable connection with the Lokar parts. The two cables to the right go to the rear calipers. A cable on the left will go to the foot pedal.

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WagonCrazy
03-18-2015, 08:47 PM
Placing that connection hardware on top of the frame (below the floor) seems like it would be tough to get wrenches in there for adjusting it?

Did you connect using the stock rear corvette ebrake cables? The ones on mine arent long enough to come together like your pic shows.

More pic would be appreciated when you get to that point ChevyNut. Thanks.

chevynut
03-18-2015, 09:05 PM
Placing that connection hardware on top of the frame (below the floor) seems like it would be tough to get wrenches in there for adjusting it?

There's actually quite a bit of room above the frame in that location, that's why I wanted it to end up there. I think you have about 2 1/2-3" of room above the frame. That should be enough for adjustments....I hope. ;) I shouldn't have to adjust it very often.


Did you connect using the stock rear corvette ebrake cables?

No, I bought the universal rear kit from Lokar and their front kit that works with their pedal.

chevynut
03-18-2015, 09:13 PM
Paul, Lokar makes all the stuff to do that.

Don't know why my pics and links don't work...



http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-main.html
http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-pgs/ebrake-cables-pn.html

Justin@ECP
03-19-2015, 07:59 AM
Can't wait to see it painted

chevynut
03-21-2015, 11:43 AM
I got the upper rear shock mount points moved. I wanted to move them outboard some to decrease the shock angle to around 25 degrees or less at ride height, which allows me to use a lower spring rate. But as we all know, one thing leads to another. To move them out where I wanted them, the top of the shock interfered with the brake line on the driver's side (it used to go under the crossmember), and with the fuel lines on the passenger side. So I had to move my fuel lines up a tad (glad the bracket was only tacked) and I rotated the brake line tee 90 degrees and will have to re-route the brake line a little. Then I will have to build new lower shock mounts when I get to that point. Right now I'm focusing on frame modifications to get the frame to paint.

I am also re-assembling my exhaust to see if I need any more hangers. The tailpipes are connected to the header collectors and I don't have any hangers until the rear shock crossmember. I feel that maybe I need a pair in the transmission crossmember area, ahead of the mufflers.

This is before:

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This is after:

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I'm also a little concerned that my brake line through-frame fittings are too close to the calipers to make the hoses work, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

chevynut
03-21-2015, 07:38 PM
Here's my brake line dilemma. The through-frame fitting ended up being too close to the caliper port. I can't figure out a clean, safe way to attach a -3AN brake hose. The tire is almost up against the C4 dogbones, so there's very little room for a hose.

4235 4236 4237

I need an angled banjo or hose end at the caliper and a 90-degree hose end at the frame no matter how I do it. The hose has to have enough slack for suspension travel, and to fully extend the shock for tire removal. I'm kinda thinking it makes more sense to move the fitting behind the axle bumper and make a large loop over it to the caliper. My tubs are even with the frame rails, so they're not in the way.

I thought about going under the frame, but I think that makes things worse. Any thoughts?

MP&C
03-22-2015, 08:50 AM
Use a line with a 90* fitting, and place your bulkhead fitting in between the two dogbones. They will protect the line from tire rub (if dimensions work out) and everything should move in unison.

chevynut
03-22-2015, 09:55 AM
Robert, the brake hoses I've seen with a 90 degree fitting stick out a long ways. I'm not sure there's room for it between the upper dogbone and the frame. Are you suggesting I go outside the dogbone? The tire is really close there. I'll have to post a pic with the tire on.

I have another issue on the front brakes. I am using -4AN lines and need to transition to -3 hose. So far I haven't been able to figure out how to do that. I have a -4AN bulkhead fitting on the outside of the frame now. Ideally I'd need a -3 hose with a -3 nut on one end and -4 nut on the other end, or a bulkhead fitting with -4 on one end and -3 on the other end. I might be able to just use -4 brake hoses.

NickP
03-22-2015, 10:05 AM
AME as you may know has a prebent kit for their chassis - looking at how the lines (stainless) run much the same as you have they terminate on the pass side inside of the frame rail with a 90 AN3 down and the hose is underneath from there and directed to the caliper. Driver side does much the same inside the driver rail and t's with it down and under.

chevynut
03-22-2015, 10:23 AM
AME as you may know has a prebent kit for their chassis - looking at how the lines (stainless) run much the same as you have they terminate on the pass side inside of the frame rail with a 90 AN3 down and the hose is underneath from there and directed to the caliper. Driver side does much the same inside the driver rail and t's with it down and under.

Nick, do you have a picture? The AME suspension doesn't have the dogbones in the way so it's easier to do like that. I don't want the dogbones hitting the brake lines. Also there's a body mount and a shock crossmember in the way on the inside of the frame. I will need a banjo or a straight 10mm fitting out of the caliper. How have you done this on your C4 frames?

chevynut
03-22-2015, 11:12 AM
Here's another pic...

4238

MP&C
03-22-2015, 07:15 PM
A quick search showed this one, I know it's a -4 but something similar in your -3 should clear the tires..


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all46402-24?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKEAjw0LmoBRDHuo7UkaKXhn8SJADmDTG0G28OSH7P hQ4na1tF40dYCk36GFBFYbR-2xYbgM-ohBoCRErw_wcB


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chevynut
03-22-2015, 08:04 PM
Thanks for that link Robert. I did some searching yesterday on Summit's site and found the ones from Russell that had the long 90....

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/rus-656012_cp.jpg

I have had fits searching for stuff on Summit's site. You go and refine one way, and nothing shows up. You refine the search another way and you see things that should have shown up before.

I think I may have some forged AN-4 hose ends and I have some AN-4 hose. Maybe I should just make my own hoses and screw the DOT certification. :p

Here's a place with a good selection of end fittings, but I don't see one with one end being a -4 and the other a -3 for the front. However, they do have -3 hoses with -4 ends and that might work for me. All I'd need is a -4 AN banjo or straight -4 AN to 10mm adapter.

http://pitstopusa.com/c-132390-brake-system-brake-hoses-lines-brake-hoses.html

I'll take a closer look at the rear. I see two possible places to route the rear lines and hoses...one is where the dogbones pivot as you suggested, and the other is behind the axle bumper somewhere. Both are going to be tricky to get to because of the fuel lines. But once I find a location it shouldn't be hard to get the hoses because both ends will be -3 AN. I don't think it will work where they are now. Thanks for the suggestions and ideas.

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WagonCrazy
03-22-2015, 08:43 PM
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Here’s how I did the rear brake line plumbing in mine...

35 degree banjo fitting x 3an male (at the caliper)
4246 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-r4050ss

Then a 3an stainless line x 12 inches long.
4247 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220302

Then 3an bulkhead fitting & nut (at the frame).
4248 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-483203-bl

The stainless flex line runs between the dog bones. Shouldn’t interfere with movement.

Since you have run your hard lines in 1/4 inch (instead of 3/16 as mine are), maybe you can use these same fittings, except in 4an size including 4an flex lines as well.

I looked on Summits Fragola fitting assortment, for a 4an male to 3an male bulkhead fitting. Couldn’t find one. But using 4an fittings like the ones described above, you could plumb it all the way to the caliper in 4an sizing...

chevynut
03-22-2015, 09:48 PM
Thanks for the pics Paul. As you know my frame is somewhat different than yours, since it's narrowed 3" in the rear and my tires look a lot closer to the dogbones. It looks like your frame tab is close to the same place as my through-frame fitting is. Maybe I can route my brake line like you did and make it work where it is. I guess I never thought of having the banjo point downward like that and I thought it might interfere with the e-brake cable routing so I never tried it. ;)

The outboard end of my through-frame fitting is -3 AN. I'd need a 90 degree hose end there as long as it was fairly short. I already have the same -3AN banjos that you used. I also have a pair of 12" Russell brake lines but they have straight -3 AN ends. The other option is to cut off the -3 AN fitting, drill and tap it for a 1/8" NPT, and install a 90 degree NPT to -3AN adapter. If I just reversed the through-frame fitting I'd have the -3AN on the inside and it still wouldn't work.

My coilovers have a 4.5" stroke and the tire needs to drop about 2.5-3" from ride height to fully extend the shock. I don't want the hose rubbing on either the frame or the dogbones. I'll check it out tomorrow and see if it will work for me like that. Thanks a bunch!

chevynut
03-23-2015, 11:55 AM
Thanks a lot Paul, it looks like your routing scheme is going to work for me. ;) That saves me a lot of work re-doing my through-frame fittings and tube routing. I just need to make sure the 90 degree elbow length isn't too long or I start getting into the dogbones. For some reason I had a mental block on this and never thought about going down instead of up from the caliper...that's what makes these forums so great. :)

The only thing I don't understand is how you get away with only a 12" hose. Have you checked the length with the shocks fully extended? I tried a 16" hose on mine and it's a little long, but I don't think I can go less than 14". Maybe your frame tab is a little forward of where my fitting is or my shocks extend a little longer than yours.

Robert, I think your idea of putting the through-frame fitting between the dogbone pivots would have worked too. But Paul's suggestion saves me from welding up and re-drilling holes in the frame. I just hope I can keep the hoses from rubbing on anything.

NickP
03-23-2015, 12:06 PM
What did Chevrolett do? I did all of mine the same way as mentioned (looking for pics) but it seems like you have a good solution going on.

chevynut
03-23-2015, 12:13 PM
Nick, Chevrolet went UP from the caliper to a tab above the dogbones. I couldn't do that with a through-frame fitting because it's right where the body mount and crossmember are. That's why I went so far back, which caused the problem because it's too close.

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chevynut
03-23-2015, 12:15 PM
Here's how Newman does his.

4252

WagonCrazy
03-23-2015, 04:32 PM
I need to drop the shock and articulate the rear suspension travel to just check and see if the 12 inch hose length is enough without the shock on (just to know what the limit is at the extremes). With the coil over shocks I have on it now, I don’t think I have anywhere near 4.5 inches of travel...
Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to check that out.

chevynut
03-23-2015, 09:07 PM
Paul, which coilovers are you using? I am currently using Aldan AS658s (12" springs) in the rear of my frame, but I usually recommend QA-1 to folks. With my conversions the length between eyes at ride height is around 13-13 1/2" depending on early or late C4 rearends. The knuckle where the shock mounts has a different angle between early and late. For QA-1 that is either a 403 or a 501 shock. The 403 has an extended length of 15" and a stroke of 3 3/4" and the 501 has an extended length of 17" and a 5 3/8" stroke. The 403 is a 10" spring shock and the 503 is a 12" spring. I prefer the longer spring in the rear.

My shocks are brand new, never on the road, but it looks like the gas has pretty much escaped over the years that I've had them. I'll probably send them back to Aldan for a re-charge and minor tuneup. It sucks when it takes this long to build a car. :(

WagonCrazy
03-23-2015, 10:04 PM
I put Vi-King double adjustable coil overs on all 4 corners. I’ll have to get back to you with the dimensions...

chevynut
03-24-2015, 10:57 AM
I got the brake line re-routed over the top of the shock crossmember to get it out of the way of my driver's side shock, since I relocated it outboard a bit. I put a bulkhead fitting in the line so I didn't have to re-bend the entire 6 feet of it. It already has a dozen or so bends to get around body mounts, etc. Sure hope the brake hoses work out. ;)

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Now I have to address my exhaust hangers. With the ones I used, I think I have too much "swinging" of the exhaust at the tip. Also, I have no support between the header flange and the shock bar, something I figured I'd address before paint.

4256

I plan to remove the studs at the rear and add two of these hangers there, and two behind the transmission mount. They should help prevent the side-to-side movement that flexes the pipes.

http://www.deedsengineering.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/N-3-white-190x243.jpg

chevynut
03-26-2015, 03:44 PM
While waiting for my exhaust hangers I decided to do some more work on the body today. I sanded the firewall which only has one coat of expoy on it. It's now ready for another coat.

I also re-located the hole for passage of my engine wiring into the console. It's now on the front of the firewall, right below the level of the intake manifold and INSIDE my console. The hole I had cut before missed the console and was too hard to run the wires through it due to the angle...it was further down in the tranny tunnel.

Finally, I made another wire hole in the bottom of my console, and through the floor so I could run wiring for the speedo sensor, O2 sensor, reverse lockout, backup light switch, and electric cutouts into the car.

I'm still working on the interior panels and console too. Things kind of "evolve" on the console as I go. :)

Once the frame is painted and the body is ready it will be put on the rotisserie for prepping the underside.

I did remove all the plumbing lines and fittings from the frame so the exhaust is the last thing I need to deal with. I could probably do it without the hangers in-hand, but I prefer to get them before I build anything.

chevynut
03-31-2015, 09:24 AM
Got my tailpipe movement issue fixed. I put two Deed's Engineering exhaust hangers near the bumper. However, since the exhaust pipes expand so much I don't believe you can just bolt them to the frame and expect them to take up the expansion. These hangers have little or no compliance once bolted to the pipes. So I think you have two choices.....put an expansion bellows into the system, or let the hangers move with the pipes.

I chose to toss the center aluminum bushings from the Deed's hangers and make a bracket that allows the urethane bushing to slide as the pipes expand. I think this will take care of the problem without causing binding and stress in the exhaust pipes.

I used 1/8" stainless plates and 1/2" stainless rods for the hanger brackets.

4290 4291 4292

chevynut
03-31-2015, 09:26 AM
I was not able to figure out where to put 2 more exhaust hangers in front of the mufflers. I had planned to hang them from my transmission support but after building the parts I realized the body brace was in the way and it wouldn't work. :( Without building some huge bracket I can't find a way to attach the second pair of Deed's hangers I bought.

So I'm thinking I'll leave it as-is, with two pairs of hangers behind the mufflers.

Rick_L
03-31-2015, 09:57 AM
So you have the urethane bushing riding directly on the rod? Doesn't that have a lot of friction?

chevynut
03-31-2015, 10:40 AM
So you have the urethane bushing riding directly on the rod? Doesn't that have a lot of friction?

Yes the rod replaces the aluminum bushings. It's a lot less friction than bolting it solid! :)

Actually it slides really easy. From a practical point of view the urethane isn't stressed any more than what the aluminum bushings do. And the friction is very low compared to the force from the pipe expansion.

chevynut
03-31-2015, 05:29 PM
Well I didn't give up on the other exhaust hangers and came up with a solution. They can't be close to the crossmember and need to be about 3" behind it because of the body brace. I decided to turn the hangers sideways to clear the floor. I thought about building a bracket to attach to my crossmember, but decided to use a long piece of stainless rod supported by 2.5" of 1" DOM tubing that just fits over it. The tubing will be welded to the crossmember and the rod is held in with a 5/16" screw from the front side.

The passenger side hanger is a little different and was more tricky. My torque arm is in the way and there's a bracket at the front of the torque arm right where the exhaust support needs to be. The support has to hold my torque arm bracket in place as well as act as the exhaust support. I had to bore the backside of the 1" DOM and weld a 1/2" nut inside of it. So I'll use a long 1/2" stainless bolt and put a 1/2" nut on the frontside of the crossmember.

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chevynut
03-31-2015, 05:30 PM
The engine and transmission are OUT, the frame is stripped, and it's ready to go on the rotisserie as soon as I get rid of all the parts laying everywhere. :) :) :)