More interior work done

[chevynut]

While I'm waiting to get my frame painted I decided to get back to interior construction work since I have a lot of it left to do. I drilled and tapped holes in my cargo floor to install 1/4-20 screws that hold the floor plywood down. The screws go into the braces I built to support the floor. I removed the aluminum rear seat framework and finished welding it all up and reinstalled it. Then I laid out and cut out the upper cargo area side pieces from 3/8" plywood and laid out the trim lines and speaker locations. I cut the 6x9 speaker openings and temporarily screwed the plywood to the framework. The console will extend basically all the way to the liftgate, but it's only roughed out in the picture. For grins, I reinstalled everything I've built so far. My interior guy is going to have to gap and trim everything the way he wants it when he finishes the interior.



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This is kinda what it's supposed to be like when the cargo area is finished...

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Next I have to finish fiberglassing the rear panels, and figure out how to attach the armrests in front. After that, the front panels just need some tweaking of the gaps before they're ready for covering with leather. My interior guy wants to get started on the side panels as soon as he can. I still have to decide on a seat design but the seating area will be perforated leather, with the rest of it plain leather. Colors have been chosen and we need to get the leather ordered soon.

[WagonCrazy]

plywood? Are you encouraging "diversity" here? :p

Figured you'd stick with metal materials...

But wood is a very "workable" substrate for the demands of interior base pieces.

I used some in my 9 passenger wagon a while back. The stuff warped from the sun and heat and a little water intrusion...

[WagonCrazy]

And looking at your mockups gave me some ideas on how I need to do my Nomad when I get to that point. Thanks for posting your progress. It helps all of us.
If I could ever get the the point of some real progress on mine, I'd post more often too.
Darned job and life keep getting in the way.
Go man Go!

[chevynut]

Paul, the only plywood I'm using is the seat bottom and back, cargo floor, and the cargo area covers. I just think it's appropriate there since it's rigid and adds some thickness to the structure. If I used steel I'd have to do something to give it thickness. Plywood was used by GM on the cargo floor, as you know. It's some special type of cabinet plywood with thin layers of hardwood called Baltic Birch. We'll probably be attaching some layers onto the top of the plywood with the different colors of leather. Some guys make almost everything out of wood or MDF, but I'm sticking with aluminum for most of the console, valence, and seat framework. Even my door panels are aluminum instead of cardboard. I find aluminum much easier to work with than steel and it's strong enough and lighter than steel.

[WagonCrazy]

All points noted. it looks great as you've built it so far.
Just poking fun at ya. :p
Stay with it. Your nomad is really coming along now.
Inspirational for the rest of us who are stuck in slow mo with our builds.

[WagonCrazy]

All points noted. it looks great as you've built it so far.
Just poking fun at ya. :p
Stay with it. Your nomad is really coming along now.
Inspirational for the rest of us who are stuck in slow mo with our builds.

[chevynut]

I got an e-mail from my painter yesterday saying he lost my phone number, so I sent it to him and tried to call last night after dinner when he was probably closed. I left a message for him to call me. Maybe he has an opening coming up to paint my frame. Seeing some color will be some inspiration and motivation for me! :)

[chevynut]

It's been over two years since I updated this thread, but it's not like I haven't done anything on the Nomad in that time :).

After cutting the fuel pump access in my cargo floor I finished the final fitting of the rear seat and panels so I can put it all away until after paint. I primed all the wood with a couple coats of SPI epoxy and sandblasted the seat frame to clean it up. I was going to paint or powdercoat the seat frame, but it looks great just blasted imo. So it's staying that way for now. The blasting cleaned up the welds nicely.

The seat panels and everything else will still have to be clearanced by Larry, my interior guy. I left everything large so there's plenty of material there. I'll probably re-prime after trimming. I'm also going to bag and mark all the hardware so it's easier for him (and me) to re-assemble all of it when the time comes. ;)

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[BamaNomad]

It looks EXCELLENT, CN... yours is going to be a Most Handsome Nomad.... :)

[Bitchin'57]

How do the back seats get built, as far as cushioning is concerned? Will there be any springs, or will it just be foam over the plywood?

[chevynut]

Bitchin', it will be foam over the plywood. Talked to Larry about it and we're going to put a dense foam on the base followed by a lighter foam above it. That's how all seats like this are built as far as I can tell. I bought another pair of Eldo buckets to try to put back there but it was not going to work. I doubt I'll have anyone back there very often anyhow. :)

[chevynut]

Here's one of the stainless clips I made to attach the seat backs to the frame.

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[chevynut]

This is a 55 Nomad done by Interiors By Shannon. Notice the entire interior of the car is painted. :) The back end looks similar to what I'm doing. I think the front seats look a little small, though.


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/382212_10151561293606414_283443913_n.jpg?oh=cd1b90 0e7b17ba55c84814f8f15763ea&oe=59DC6971


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71989_10151641115421414_133437710_n.jpg?oh=58e536e 0bf26dc0a8936fcd5d0f2b2f4&oe=59AC24C0

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/261339_10151647852556414_1525382685_n.jpg?oh=2e944 3e722797738e293f4c9999e0d3b&oe=59AF528C

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1044009_10151807784281414_1047994_n.jpg?oh=c9cfdb4 d2a6c36013579cf4a227beddb&oe=59AB4334

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1001850_10151807786466414_40620056_n.jpg?oh=37ec6f af6cddae9233da65fe4ef9c5a6&oe=599BA31F

[chevynut]

Here's another one...again I think the front seats look small, and the interior is completely painted.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13254307_10154318486956414_5452327011620723869_n.j pg?oh=5b5a288c6ba516e32440679af4afc61d&oe=599E0BEB


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13256240_10154318489361414_3307890422946547863_n.j pg?oh=ae3035109a0cd91d3910d4b36ead3475&oe=59E6CCC9


But he didn't align the door beltline moulding to the dash!! :eek:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13256035_10154318488316414_2001706961961683341_n.j pg?oh=acfe847594d5cdd6f21ef50693fe86d9&oe=599CEC70

[BamaNomad]

This is a 55 Nomad done by Interiors By Shannon. Notice the entire interior of the car is painted. :) The back end looks similar to what I'm doing. I think the front seats look a little small, though.


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/382212_10151561293606414_283443913_n.jpg?oh=cd1b90 0e7b17ba55c84814f8f15763ea&oe=59DC6971


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71989_10151641115421414_133437710_n.jpg?oh=58e536e 0bf26dc0a8936fcd5d0f2b2f4&oe=59AC24C0

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/261339_10151647852556414_1525382685_n.jpg?oh=2e944 3e722797738e293f4c9999e0d3b&oe=59AF528C

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1044009_10151807784281414_1047994_n.jpg?oh=c9cfdb4 d2a6c36013579cf4a227beddb&oe=59AB4334

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1001850_10151807786466414_40620056_n.jpg?oh=37ec6f af6cddae9233da65fe4ef9c5a6&oe=599BA31F

That's the Silver 55 Shannon did for his father; his father was *bragging* that the interior was over $30K... (sorta turned me off with those kinds of comments, but the car and the interior is beautiful)... The Father brought a red custom '57 convertible to the Smokey Mountain show last month...

[chevynut]

As I was removing my rear seat and other parts to put into storage I decided to finish some more work on the interior of the storage compartment. I had planned to do it later, but as I thought about how I would attach the panels I decided I needed to weld tabs onto the seat. So I made a bunch of aluminum tabs to weld to the rear of the seat frame.

I'm going to use hardboard for the panels because I figure it's less apt to rattle than metal panels. Larry may decide to do it differently, so he can use these as a pattern if he wants to. They will be covered with carpet. I also rough-cut the plywood for the access door out of 3/8" European Baltic Birch plywood and have enough left for the cargo area cover when we decide how to finish it off. Hopefully all of this will cut Larry's interior labor time way down.

So now it can all go into storage and I can move forward and finish a few things.

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[chevynut]

his father was *bragging* that the interior was over $30K...

Maybe he meant "ONLY" $30K! :D Surely Shannon gave him a discount on it. I don't think a lot of guys realize how expensive custom leather interiors are. That's a really nice interior though.

Wonder why he doesn't have any tailgate hinge covers :confused:

[BamaNomad]

Yes, I loved the interior (and the car), but when they are owned by someone who has to 'tell you how much each part cost'... I tend to lose interest... :).. if he had just referred me to his son who did the interior it would have been good, even if he said it would be 'expensive', but for him to tell me (it costs over $30... as if I couldn't afford it... it definitely was a turnoff.. although I probably wouldn't spend that much on an interior... :)

Re the hinge covers: Sometimes in doing body work, the holes are filled/smooothed, and perhaps after the paint, they (forgot or didn't know) that it was supposed to have hinge covers.. :) and there IS a lot of confusion over hinge covers, between the wagon and nomad covers (they are different) and they have screws/holes in different places .. although many Nomad owners install the wagon covers if they have them.

There are several outstanding interior guys in Alabama. Among them are Shannon and also Paul Atkins of worldwide reknown who has sewn the interiors for several Riddler award winners and Outstanding Rods of the year winners.. (Paul is now doing complete restorations)
http://www.paulatkinsinteriors.com/Interior_Shop.html

[chevynut]

when they are owned by someone who has to 'tell you how much each part cost'... I tend to lose interest... :).. if he had just referred me to his son who did the interior it would have been good, even if he said it would be 'expensive', but for him to tell me (it costs over $30... as if I couldn't afford it... it definitely was a turnoff.. :)


It doesn't bother me when someone tells me how much something cost. It's more of a turn-off when someone brags about how he "built" his car when a shop did all the work on it and he just wrote checks.

[BamaNomad]

I'm with you on that also CN re 'someone who built their car by writing checks', but that seems to be the 'norm' anymore. When I'm admiring someone's car at a show/etc, I generally try to find out how much the owner did themselves. I have more personal respect for owners who 'do it themselves', even if the quality isn't up to the $150K 'check built' cars...

But very obviously, anyone who is bragging about how much a portion of his car cost was only 'writing checks' as well... :) I much prefer to hear a person say .. "I built this myself and it only cost me $_x_ for the materials..."

[chevynut]

Moving right along ;)....I needed to figure out a way to mount my Polk Audio tweeters before painting the car. I decided long ago that I wanted them up in the corner of the windshield, in the headliner, just outside of the visors. They have a surface mount receptacle they can be mounted into. After contemplating how to mount them, I decided to make a piece of sheetmetal to double up the roof so I had something to attach them to. Here's what I came up with. I will need to weld a nut or tab onto this piece so the height and angle can be adjusted when the headliner is installed.

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[chevynut]

I worked a little more on the tweeter mounts and made tabs to attach to the plates that will be welded to the body. I welded some 6-32 screws into the plates to keep them from turning and so I can change the tab later if I need to. Then I drilled a hole for an 8-32 PEM to hold the tweeter and a couple more to keep the tweeter from rotating.....they put tabs on the mount for a different reason, I think. :)

Now I need to prime and weld the plates in. The tabs are made so they can be bent to set the tweeters at the correct height and angle once we work on the headliner.

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[WagonCrazy]

I like the bendable tab system. Yes, you'll need to fine tune the final depth relative to the headliner up in that corner, and that bendable tab seems like it will be easy to do that.

[chevynut]

Yes, you'll need to fine tune the final depth relative to the headliner up in that corner, and that bendable tab seems like it will be easy to do that.

That's also why I made it removable...in case I have to re-design the tab if we can't get the angle right. :)

[chevynut]

I epoxy primed the topside of the tweeter mounts and welded them in. I put a piece of sound deadener between the mount and the roof before welding.

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[chevynut]

Today I met with Larry to finalize the perforation size for the tan leather, and the color of the charcoal leather so he could get it ordered. He had picked out a charcoal leather for me a couple of years ago and it has both stainproofing and fireproofing treatment since he uses this supplier for his aircraft work. I found out that the fireproofing adds $300 per hide so asked him to find another supplier that has the same or similar color hides without the fireproofing which I don' think I need. Unfortunately the only thing he could find was quite a bit lighter gray in color, which I didn't like with the tan, or almost black which I didn't want either. So I'm stuck with paying the price and told him to order it. He figures we need 2 1/2 hides of charcoal.

He also gave me another sample of the charcoal leather, supposedly from the same supplier, but it has a different texture. I kind of like the more grainy texture of the first sample better, but he said it will be smoother than that. I guess the leather varies some from one hide to another. This is all Italian leather that comes from cows that are kept in rubber rooms to protect them from getting scratched....LOL! :-D

Here's the two charcoal leather samples....they seem somewhat different to me. The camera really screws up the colors but you can see the difference in texture:

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Here's the two round perforation patterns his supplier offers. I had picked the larger holes from a dark sample he had, but I started wondering about it later. He sent 1 1/2 hides to get perforated and I asked him to put it on hold and get samples on the actual leather. I looked at them today and picked the smaller holes, since they look more "rich" and more "subtle" but still give the leather a different texture. I'm not really trying to ventilate the seats but it will be on the seating surfaces.

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And here's the final colors all together, all sitting on a panel painted body color which I plan to bring inside the car somehow. Starting from the left is the wool carpet, perforated tan leather, solid tan leather, charcoal leather, and wool headliner. I can't seem to find my charcoal seatbelt sample :cry:.

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[BamaNomad]

Your interior is going to be as impressive as your chassis, CN... We can't wait to see it all together!

[WagonCrazy]

Are you sewing/installing the headliner same as stock? (seamed sections with the metal rods inserted at left and right) Or are you making a 1 piece molded/formed backer to glue that wool material to? (alot of work there if so).

[chevynut]

Are you sewing/installing the headliner same as stock? (seamed sections with the metal rods inserted at left and right) Or are you making a 1 piece molded/formed backer to glue that wool material to? (alot of work there if so).

Nomads don't use the metal rods, the chrome bows hold the headliner up. I had a headliner made once that the guy sewed cardboard strips to that slid into the bows. I'm pretty sure that's how it was done stock.

Larry is handling the headliner and with 40+ years of experience I think he's done some Nomads. He said he does it differently than most guys and has no seam at the top of the b-pillar so it take a little more material to do. The headliner is the last thing we'll do and it's possible I'll change my mind about material or color by the time we get there, after seeing the rest of the interior take shape.

[chevynut]

Got all my electrical switches.....

These will be used for my power window switches :

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HQgAAOSwBT9ZrKGf/s-l500.jpg

This is my door lock switch (console mounted):

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/D0EAAOSwDkVaH034/s-l500.jpg

These are my power VENT window switches:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/eXIAAOSw6VRaH07Y/s-l500.jpg

And this is the switch for my exhaust cutouts :):


https://www.renntech.org/forums/uploads/monthly_09_2008/post-17661-1222406024.jpg


I thought the images on the switches work out pretty well. ;) The window switches will be mounted on the console, with the lock switch between them. The vent window switches will be at each end of the dash valence, and the cutout switch will be either somewhere near the steering column on one side or the other. :)

[JT56]

You think you will be ready April? Looking good

[chevynut]

You think you will be ready April? Looking good

What year? LOL! :D

[BamaNomad]

(in part) ...Nomads don't use the metal rods, the chrome bows hold the headliner up. I had a headliner made once that the guy sewed cardboard strips to that slid into the bows. I'm pretty sure that's how it was done stock.....


you are correct; From the factory, the headliner for Nomads had the cardboard strip sewn in which when inserted into the bows held everything in alignment...

[chevynut]

So I'm back to working on the interior again. I re-installed it all a few weeks ago so Larry could see what he's going to have to do. I put sound deadener on the roof, and we plan to install insulation there too. I installed all the new tackstrips and located the molding and roof bow holes in them, and I installed the bows to check for fit. I finished up the dome light wiring and re-designed the console so we can assemble it inside the car, and leave the electrical stuff on the base. I installed the wired hollow door hinges some time ago and re-installed the door panel for Larry to check out.

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I also fabbed the top cover for the console and cut a small hole for the shifter for now, until I decide how to finish it off. Still a lot of work to finish everything, but it's getting closer.

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The front bucket seats and rear seats are going to have a design similar to this, with most of the seat tan and the accent inserts charcoal. The headrests will be gone and the panel immediately below the headrest will be charcoal with a "V" medallion as shown in my sketch. The console lid will also be two toned as will the sides when I come up with a design for it.

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I still have to figure out what I want to do with the cargo area. The tubs are wider than the panels I made above them, and I don't like that. So I may extend the panels inward and maybe do something like this....

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Larry got my steering wheel done that I bought many years ago when Colorado Custom was still in Fort Collins, Colorado. He tells me he's going to do the padded leather dash next, then the headliner, so I can install the windshield. I hope he doesn't take 5 years to do this interior. :(

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[Troy]

That'll look great!!! I wish I had the money to do a custom interior, I just ordered a "custom" interior package from Ciadella Interiors. It's factory style Belair two door hardtop only it's all black!!

[chevynut]

That'll look great!!! I wish I had the money to do a custom interior, I just ordered a "custom" interior package from Ciadella Interiors. It's factory style Belair two door hardtop only it's all black!!

Thanks Troy, I know some guys don't like modern-looking interiors in Tri5s, but it's my car and I'll do it how I want to. The whole car is a modernized tri5 which has been the way I've viewed the build ever since I decided to go C4 suspension. Larry's getting off the hook easy imo, since I did so much of the construction work. Our deal changed with the second frame I built for him.

I like the original-style interiors too, especially when the buckets are made with original materials. Looks like Ciadella makes some nice stuff.

[chevynut]

I want to get some opinions from the group. I have been wanting to have my interior guy, Larry, stitch my dash and the rest of my interior in contrasting thread, like a lot of new cars have. At one time I was thinking of using charcoal thread on the tan leather, and vice versa. Now I'm leaning toward using tan thread everywhere. Larry thinks the contrasting thread is a "fad" that will go away with time, like the colors of the '90's. He said he'll do it whichever way I want, but he would do it with matching threads.

Since my interior will be 2-tone like a lot of modern cars, it seems like contrasting thread is natural. What do you guys think?

This is what I'm talking about....

https://katzkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Screen-Shot-2021-10-21-at-10.37.56-PM.png

https://katzkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IMG_4650.jpg

https://katzkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/F-150CLOSE.jpg

[Belair-o]

Hi Chevynut,
Well, to each his own, but if it was me, I wouldn't do the contrasting thread. I would have contrast from the two-tone interior you will have and leave it at that. Just a matter of personal taste...
Regards, Doug

[WagonCrazy]

I like the contrasting thread color. That's how I plan to have my interior done (someday).

[55 Rescue Dog]

It's kinda like Mom jeans though and even my Camry has contrasting threads.

[chevynut]

I don't know how I did it, but when I designed my Polk Audio tweeter mounts I thought I had installed the sun visors to make sure they didn't hit the tweeters. Well, since we're getting ready to install the headliner, I decided to install the tweeters and check again.....they hit! It's possible that I totally forgot about the visors before. So I re-designed the tabs the tweeters mount on and move them back about 1". The visor over-lapped the edge of the tweeter by 1/2". Just another thing I had to do twice. :mad:

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Larry came over today and we installed the insulation on the roof. I wanted some kind of insulation over the top of the sound deadener to keep the heat down. We put some sort of pad that he uses a lot on it. It's about 1/4-5/16" thick and we put it all the way across the roof.

Larry's going to finish sewing up the headliner and we plan to install it in a few weeks. Then he's going to sew up the leather for the dash and install it so I can install the windshield. I'm heading out on a cruise tomorrow, then we have a big 90th birthday bash for my mom after we get back, then another birthday party for my granddaughter the following week, then we're going back up to Montana for a couple of weeks. So work on the car is slowing down for a while.

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[Troy]

Those sun visors will look great with your new interior Laszlo!! I like the patina!!:D
As usual your perfection is great

Oh and thanks for the PM's about the "Fuzzies"

[chevynut]

Larry and I discussed finishing the wheelwells and he wanted to put carpet on them but I didn't like the idea. I also wanted to put sound deadener on them and he said he couldn't really put leather on them if I did that. So I decided to put deadener on them, and build panels to cover them instead. They will be vertical from the floor all the way up to the top panel that has the speakers and the cargo area cover on it. Today I finished the sound deadener installation. Still have to put some under the rear seat, then we'll put carpet pad/insulation over that.

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[asbicca]

My wheel wells are not widened like yours but they have sound deadner and are covered in leather.

[chevynut]

My wheel wells are not widened like yours but they have sound deadner and are covered in leather.

Your interior looks great. Larry is one picky sob and he didn't like the wrinkles in my sound deadener. I think it's from rolling it up and letting it sit for years, but it's still sticky as hell so I'm not changing it. I decided to do something more like this in the cargo area....

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[chevynut]

Well I'm just about to lose it with my interior guy. We agreed on December 6 that he was going to do my interior, but he would not commit to a timeframe. He's building a shop at his house and is the general contractor, so he claims he doesn't have much time to work on my stuff. I told him I couldn't wait 2 years for it and I said in November that wanted it done in 6-8 months. He said it had to be on his time so I just asked him to do regular work on it a few hours a week, so there's measurable, visible progress. I asked him to take my steering wheel and finish it.

A month later I got my steering wheel....probably 2 hours of work.

Time went by and I did some work I needed to do on the car so I didn't push him.

On March 23 (see post above) Larry came over and we installed the roof insulation. He told me he would work on sewing up the headliner so we could get it installed. He also took a pattern off of my dash, which I told him should be the same as any other 55 or 56. He argued that no two are the same....I disagree.

Time went by and his old shop (he sold it and rents part of it for storage) got broken into about early April. He called me and told me about it, and told me he was working on the headliner and would have it done when I got back from Montana in early May.

I returned to CO and after I caught up with things I contacted him on May 10 and told him I was back and ready for the headliner installation. He said he didn't have time to work on it while I was gone due to a bunch of issues with his new shop. I told him my schedule for the next 5 weeks and told him that I would be heading back to Montana around mid-June. He said he'd get the headliner installed before I left.

It's now mid-June and I've heard nothing from him for over a month. Six months and a week have gone by since he came over to discuss the project with me. So far I have a steering wheel and roof insulation. Six goddam months later!

I am just about fed up with this but here's the problem.... I contacted Auto Weave Interiors in Denver and they can't get to my car until January. I contacted Recovery Room Interiors in Nebraska and he is booked until next summer, about a year out. I talked to a guy in Indiana and he said he's 4 months out, but he's also 15 hours from me which I don't like. All of them are $80-85 per hour. If I fire Larry now, nothing will get done for months anyhow. Larry is probably getting close to finishing his new shop in a couple months, but I don't know exactly where he's at on it.

Auto weave said they've done 2 Nomads and one took 230 hours and the other 400 hours. The first one was a modified stock like interior, and the second one was a full custom one like mine with bucket seats, full length console, and even leather covered interior moldings. I asked about calendar days for 400 hours and was told it should be about 12 weeks. Since I've done so much of the work already, I doubt it's anywhere near 400 hours left. 400 hours at their shop rate is $34K, which is about what Larry owes me per my calculations, not including the material I paid for. So I might actually make out better having someone else do it.

And the question is how will he settle with me. I've paid for $8200 in materials and owe him a little for roof insulation, glue, and shipping of leather. He owes me many hours of labor for building his frames. I have documented time spent on his two frames, and cost of materials for them. He owes me a finished interior, no matter how many hours it takes. That was our agreement.

If I let him work at his pace, will my interior be done before I can get the car into another shop? I don't know. Maybe when his shop is finished he will spend more time on it, but as we all know there's a lot to do after a shop is "finished". I'm not sure I want to burn bridges and settle at this point, but I don't want to wait another year for this project to be done either.

The guy at Auto Weave figured out who I was talking about when I told him the problem I was having. Apparently they worked together at some shop years ago, and he said Larry has no concept of time. But he said he does very nice work. I've been trying to get Larry to do something on my car for about two years now. His daughter died of cancer over a year ago, so I backed off any didn't pressure him for months since I still had a lot of work to do myself. But now 90% of the work left is his.

So what do I do?

[BamaNomad]

You've essentially PAID him for future work, way before he ever did it... This shows one to NEVER DO THAT because the one who has already been paid doesn't have the goal of achieving payment (since he already has it)... Send him a bill for the frame work you've done and see if that gets him off 'zero'...?

[55 Rescue Dog]

Unless you want to wait another 2-3 years to drive it, just put a couple seats in it and have fun with it for now. I'm on my 3rd season driving my car with no interior except for 2 seats and a little carpet. It's so much fun to drive I don't even care if I ever even put a headliner in it, and people love the car as it is. Since you have never actually driven one of your chassis designs, you might not even like how it drives, handles, shakes, and will need to blow the car apart to change it. I can't imagine why your interior guy doesn't jump all over getting your interior done being the nice guy that you are. Even if I had $30 grand to blow on the interior, that would ruin all the fun of driving it. I spent $2000 including the seats.
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[Bitchin'57]

Well I'm just about to lose it with my interior guy. We agreed on December 6 that he was going to do my interior, but he would not commit to a timeframe. He's building a shop at his house and is the general contractor, so he claims he doesn't have much time to work on my stuff. I told him I couldn't wait 2 years for it and I said in November that wanted it done in 6-8 months. He said it had to be on his time so I just asked him to do regular work on it a few hours a week, so there's measurable, visible progress. I asked him to take my steering wheel and finish it.

A month later I got my steering wheel....probably 2 hours of work.

Time went by and I did some work I needed to do on the car so I didn't push him.

On March 23 (see post above) Larry came over and we installed the roof insulation. He told me he would work on sewing up the headliner so we could get it installed. He also took a pattern off of my dash, which I told him should be the same as any other 55 or 56. He argued that no two are the same....I disagree.

Time went by and his old shop (he sold it and rents part of it for storage) got broken into about early April. He called me and told me about it, and told me he was working on the headliner and would have it done when I got back from Montana in early May.

I returned to CO and after I caught up with things I contacted him on May 10 and told him I was back and ready for the headliner installation. He said he didn't have time to work on it while I was gone due to a bunch of issues with his new shop. I told him my schedule for the next 5 weeks and told him that I would be heading back to Montana around mid-June. He said he'd get the headliner installed before I left.

It's now mid-June and I've heard nothing from him for over a month. Six months and a week have gone by since he came over to discuss the project with me. So far I have a steering wheel and roof insulation. Six goddam months later!

I am just about fed up with this but here's the problem.... I contacted Auto Weave Interiors in Denver and they can't get to my car until January. I contacted Recovery Room Interiors in Nebraska and he is booked until next summer, about a year out. I talked to a guy in Indiana and he said he's 4 months out, but he's also 15 hours from me which I don't like. All of them are $80-85 per hour. If I fire Larry now, nothing will get done for months anyhow. Larry is probably getting close to finishing his new shop in a couple months, but I don't know exactly where he's at on it.

Auto weave said they've done 2 Nomads and one took 230 hours and the other 400 hours. The first one was a modified stock like interior, and the second one was a full custom one like mine with bucket seats, full length console, and even leather covered interior moldings. I asked about calendar days for 400 hours and was told it should be about 12 weeks. Since I've done so much of the work already, I doubt it's anywhere near 400 hours left. 400 hours at their shop rate is $34K, which is about what Larry owes me per my calculations, not including the material I paid for. So I might actually make out better having someone else do it.

And the question is how will he settle with me. I've paid for $8200 in materials and owe him a little for roof insulation, glue, and shipping of leather. He owes me many hours of labor for building his frames. I have documented time spent on his two frames, and cost of materials for them. He owes me a finished interior, no matter how many hours it takes. That was our agreement.

If I let him work at his pace, will my interior be done before I can get the car into another shop? I don't know. Maybe when his shop is finished he will spend more time on it, but as we all know there's a lot to do after a shop is "finished". I'm not sure I want to burn bridges and settle at this point, but I don't want to wait another year for this project to be done either.

The guy at Auto Weave figured out who I was talking about when I told him the problem I was having. Apparently they worked together at some shop years ago, and he said Larry has no concept of time. But he said he does very nice work. I've been trying to get Larry to do something on my car for about two years now. His daughter died of cancer over a year ago, so I backed off any didn't pressure him for months since I still had a lot of work to do myself. But now 90% of the work left is his.

So what do I do?
One option is to hire a lawyer that specializes in contract law, and have him send a demand letter to your interior guy. The letter basically says do the work as promised, or risk getting sued. I came close to doing that with my interior guy recently. My lawyer said that it works most of the time because receiving a letter like that "puts the fear of God in them". The draft letter he sent me to review and approve cited various related case law, it was fairly detailed. He was going to charge me a flat fee of $2,500 for the demand letter and have it delivered by a county sheriff deputy. Fortuantely for me, my interior guy completed the job just before I pulled the trigger.

Another option is to just walk away, and chalk it up as one of life's bumps in the road. Walk away from the frustration and uncertainty, and find another interior shop. If you are seeking one of the best interior shops in the country, look into Interiors By Shannon in Alabama. They did my friend's interior in his '57 Bel Air. Absolutely gorgeous work. That car later sold at Mecum for 235k.

[chevynut]

One option is to hire a lawyer that specializes in contract law, and have him send a demand letter to your interior guy. The letter basically says do the work as promised, or risk getting sued.

I'm not at that point yet. But if I get there I will hire a lawyer if needed.


Another option is to just walk away, and chalk it up as one of life's bumps in the road. Walk away from the frustration and uncertainty, and find another interior shop.

I'm not walking away from $35K in labor and $9K in materials. I'll sue first if needed.


I talked to my painter and he told me I called the wrong Auto Weave....apparently there's two of them in Denver. He said the guy I talked to is just as bad as my interior guy as far as timeliness. He recommended another guy who he said will do what he says they'll do. These guys do more "street rod" type interiors than custom classic cars like mine. The guy I would really want to do mine is Tracy Weaver at The Recovery Room in Nebraska. He does some incredible work and is a lot closer than Shannon. I have corresponded with Shannon in the past.

I sent Larry a text before I left and expressed my disappointment that he's crapped on me twice since I got back from Montana in early May. He is neck deep in his shop and he asked if anyone could let him into my shop while I'm gone to get the headliner installed. I'm hesitant to do that, not because I don't trust him there, but because I need to show him how my tweeters need to be installed and how I want the area around the seat belt anchor done. I may have to machine a custom spacer for the seatbelt to provide clearance for the anchor to the headliner. Maybe it's not a big issue, but I really don't have a problem with waiting til I get back to CO. I am going to tell him I need a DATE for him to come do it, not "after you get back". I'm going to see if he'll start documenting

My biggest concern is what happens after the headliner. There's a lot of work left after that. He needs to get the dash cover installed, then either the side panels or the seats need done. I need the rear seat cushions done so I can build the rest of the console. It's really work he should be doing but I kinda want to do it so it's done how I want it. Plus I like doing that stuff.

[chevynut]

Unless you want to wait another 2-3 years to drive it, just put a couple seats in it and have fun with it for now. I'm on my 3rd season driving my car with no interior except for 2 seats and a little carpet. It's so much fun to drive I don't even care if I ever even put a headliner in it, and people love the car as it is. Since you have never actually driven one of your chassis designs, you might not even like how it drives, handles, shakes, and will need to blow the car apart to change it. I can't imagine why your interior guy doesn't jump all over getting your interior done being the nice guy that you are. Even if I had $30 grand to blow on the interior, that would ruin all the fun of driving it. I spent $2000 including the seats.


Are you really that oblivious to how much of an ass you really are? I don't give a rat's ass about your car. And my C4 suspension is no different than any other C4 conversion except for the narrowed rearend that you claim won't work right because it's "not the way GM designed it". My car is on an entirely different level from yours which you don't understand and never will. Please, just stop your inane comments on my threads. I'm really sick of your shit.

[chevynut]

Well I've been composing an e-mail for the past week I've been in Montana and sent it to Larry today. I told him that I needed to see more consistent progress and need to have him give me a rough schedule in writing with an estimated date for completion. I also said I needed written receipts or at least a documented acknowledgement from him on what I've paid for the materials he owes me. I don't want to piss him off, but I want him to get off his ass. He sent me a picture of his shop, and he's nowhere near finished on it. I told him it looks like he's got 6 more months work on it to get it "done" enough to work in it.

I told him I've been contacting other shops and it looks like I can get in 4-8 months from now, but that it would be finished about 12 weeks after that. So I asked him to either commit via a written agreement to having the interior DONE by around January, or if he prefers I will send him a settlement offer for what he owes me. I told him I prefer to work with him on it but I can't have one thing done every 2-3 months with months of delays. I can only do so much of it myself, and I really shouldn't have to do anything.

He doesn't like to be pushed, so I'm pretty sure he's going to take the settlement route that he already proposed to me as an alternative in December. The question is whether he agrees with my numbers. Shops are now charging $85 an hour for interior work, and chassis shops 100+. I hope he doesn't think he just owes me my $75 per hour that was my shop rate 9 years ago. Then there's the issue of taxes. If he pays me, I have to pay taxes on the money I get. He got his frames and didn't pay a penny in taxes. So I think he should have to pay at least 15-20%.

I told him I did want him to at least finish the headliner installation and the dash, so I can get the windshield in and assemble the rest of the car. I could even drive it like that. At this point he needs to shit or get off the pot. Everyone I talked to said he does great work, but everyone who knows him says he has no concept of time.

tic, tic, tic.....

[55 Rescue Dog]

Why not just have him return the 2 frames, materials, sell the frames and start over?

[chevynut]

About a week or so Larry and I had a discussion about my interior. He's really struggling to get his shop done, and he's been working on it for over a year. It's a huge project and I really don't know why he needs multiple engineers involved in it and so many inspections. A couple of weeks ago he finally got the metal frame inspection on it. They had to inspect the welding like it was a commercial building but it's at his house so I don't know what he's building. He expected to be done by June, two months ago. Weather has also been an issue both in the past winter and this unusually wet summer. He said that when he gets it closed in he can spend more time on my interior. I asked if that was 2-3 months out and he said "no, probably October -November". I reminded him it was mid-August :eek:.

He said he couldn't commit to a finish date and said that I wouldn't agree to a deadline if he told me he needed a frame built by the end of September. I replied and told him I wasn't giving him a deadline, I wanted HIM to tell ME when he would have it finished. He still wouldn't commit so I told him I had to have it done by summer 2024. He said he didn't see that as a problem. That's the closest thing to a commitment that I've ever gotten. I can't get into another shop until after the first of the year or into the spring, so this still works for me if he does it. And it allows me to work with him and continue to build some of it that I want to do, and learn as I go.

Anyway, it turns out that he didn't want into my shop to install my headliner when I last left for Montana in June. He didn't even have it made yet. He was looking for information as to how many panels it had. He said he usually uses the original headliner as a pattern. It turns out I had a new headliner made in the late 70's and I gave that to him with the caveat that I didn't know if it was made correctly, but I had installed it and it seemed to fit. I also measured between the bow screw holes and gave him the spacing which is 12 1/2". I told him my schedule and he said we would have it installed before I left for Montana. He called when I was passing through Helena and wanted to come over to install it. So we agreed that we'd do it when I got back to Colorado.

I'm still not fully convinced that I'm going to get the interior done by summer, but I told him that the other shops said 10-12 weeks for a complete interior so that's about what I expected from him. I need to remind him that "by next summer" means when summer starts, not when it ends. I'll see how it goes in a couple of months, and still may have to find another shop. We'll see.

[WagonCrazy]

I used to read about the horror stories of guys getting their cars stuck in "paint jail" but this one is leaning that same way.
Don't you think you should be driving it soon anyway (without the full interior) to work the kinks out? Why wait for the full interior? Keep up with your forward momentum and the interior will be the final piece of the puzzle.

[chevynut]

Don't you think you should be driving it soon anyway (without the full interior) to work the kinks out?

Yes Paul, I told Larry I wanted the headliner and dash in so I could install the windshield and drive it a little. Hopefully that gets done pretty soon. I also asked him to sew me up some small pieces of charcoal leather with French seams with matching and contrasting thread so I can see them together and decide which way to go.

Problem is I'm going elk hunting with my son in Colorado for 2 weeks starting September 9, and I have to do some work (balljoints) on my 03 Duramax to take it. I many pay a friend to do it if he's interested, but not paying $150-200 an hour in a shop. Then we're going back to Montana to hunt deer and elk there and probably work on the house some more. The gate powdercoating is supposed to be finished by then too so I can install it if the rock work gets done. I likely won't get back to Colorado until early October. Hopefully the weather holds out and I can make it driveable by then.

[BamaNomad]

Good luck Laszlo! :)

[chevynut]

I contacted Larry last week the day after I returned from Montana as he requested. He told me he had the headliner made and that he could come install it Tuesday (yesterday).:) He came over late morning and we laid out the headliner on a table to install the bows. The material is awesome and it's a tan wool English broadcloth...Larry says it's the best you can buy.

I gave him my old headliner to use as a pattern but he said he found a pattern he made in the past for another Nomad project. For some reason, he sewed the cardboard strips on TOP of the headliner and he pushed them and the fabric into the bows, which took about an hour. I told him that wasn't the way I did it when I installed the old headliner, and that I just slipped the bows over the cardboard which was sewn on the BOTTOM of the headliner. But I told him I wasn't sure I did that correctly decades ago and that he was the expert on it.

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Once he got the bows installed we got in the car and started screwing the bows in from the front of the car to the rear. I thought it looked great, back to the 4th bow, but as we got to the rear of the car I noticed the spacing between the bows wasn't right and the bows started leaning forward and we were running out of fabric. I suspected what was wrong but I bit my tongue and hoped he would realize it soon. All the bows were leaning forward and the rear one wouldn't even line up with the holes in the car. Something was badly wrong.

Larry said we'd have to drill new screw holes and I told him I was concerned about doing that since the holes were all in the stock locations and measured 12 1/2" apart both sides, but the bows measured 11 3/4" apart. There was also a bad "puckering" of the material above the windows. Finally he realized what I already concluded, that putting the cardboard on TOP of the headliner consumed a lot more material as it was pushed into the bows and it wasn't right. So we took it all down and he's either going to modify it by putting new cardboard strips on the bottom or make a whole new headliner after he orders more (expensive) material. Pushing the cloth into the headliner created a crease in it that may not come out and he may have to start over. :(

It was a total waste of about 5-6 hours of work, time I needed for other things this week, and I'm not sure when we're going to try again since I'm leaving Saturday morning for a two week elk hunt with my son, and when I return we're going to Montana to hunt and work on the house. I may not be back until around mid October which is another 5-6 week delay. I hope this isn't an indication of how things are going to go.

[chevynut]

I asked Larry to make me a couple of small samples of the charcoal leather with french seams using color matching thread and contrasting thread so I can make a decision which way to go. Here they are. I'm not sure the brown thread is the exact color he plans to use on the tan leather, but it's probably close.

It's pretty clear that the contrasting thread makes errors more visible but these were just samples and I'm sure he can make straighter seams. I hope.

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[tightline5]

Sounds like this guy is going to take you for a ride. It's obvious that he was in a hurry to pump something out to get you off his back and that's exactly what you got. I would say if he doesn't show up in Oct. with a very nice headliner to install you should have his bill ready and call another shop to get you in in the spring.

Lazlo time to take the gloves off with this guy.

Wishing you the best on this harrow show.

Mine will be home from paint next Saturday, The guy did a excellent job. Went over the entire car with a sun light, and I was a high speed printer for 30 years so all I ever see are the flaws. Custom color we made up so no one else has it.

[chevynut]

Sounds like this guy is going to take you for a ride.

So far I'd say yes, but I do think he INTENDS to come through on his half of the deal. The problem is how many more years will it take?



It's obvious that he was in a hurry to pump something out to get you off his back and that's exactly what you got.

That's not obvious to me. He told me he's done Nomads before but I have no idea why he would have put the cardboard on TOP of the headliner. He did a nice job of doing it wrong. :p


I would say if he doesn't show up in Oct. with a very nice headliner to install you should have his bill ready and call another shop to get you in in the spring.

Yes, I need to keep him moving. I just got back home and I'm going to call him to let him know he can come over and install it next week. Last time I talked to him over a week ago he still wasn't sure if he needed to start over with new material....I'm not paying for it.


Lazlo time to take the gloves off with this guy.

I completely agree. If he falls through on more promises the sheet is going to hit the fan. I need consistent progress to be finished by summer.

[chevynut]

Well the saga continues. I contacted Larry when I got back from the mountains on September 16 and told him I was home. He replied and said he decided to re-sew a new headliner and that he got the material on the 9/15. I told him (again) on September 17th that I was leaving for Montana again on about September 30 and asked if he could get it done and install it before I left. He called me Wednesday 9/20 and we discussed his shop status and delays and he told me he would try to get to his old shop to get the cardboard for the new headliner by the end of the week. He knew he would need new cardboard when the headliner didn't work on 9/5 and his shop is only 30-40 minutes from his house so I don't understand why it's so hard to do. His sewing machine is set up in his basement. So over two weeks later he still didn't go get it. He told me that he should be able to go get the cardboard by Friday 9/22 and sew it on. He asked me (again) when I was leaving for Montana and I told him (again). I asked if he had anything going on Sunday September 24 and he said he didn't, so I asked if he could come over then and install the headliner. He said he should be able to do that if he got the cardboard Friday.

So, you can guess how this went. Sunday came and went and I heard nothing from him until late Sunday night. He told me he had to take his wife to the hospital on Monday, 9/25 and that he "might" get to the shop by Friday 9/29. Really? Another f'ing week gone? I stewed about this all night and I was getting more and more pissed so I called him Monday and left a message to call back. He called me but was still at the hospital so I asked him to call me when he got home.

I didn't hear from him til late morning on Tuesday 9/26. I told him I was expecting him to come over on Sunday and had not heard otherwise. He got mad and said he didn't make it to the shop to get the cardboard and was planning on getting there by Friday (9/29) and I reminded him I was leaving for Montana and it would be delayed yet another two weeks. He got mad and said screw it and he said he was wanting to settle with me. I said fine, and that I would send him a settlement proposal (already written up) and he said all he would pay for was the work on the two frames. I told him that wasn't the deal, and he owed me a finished interior, which was the agreement that he even put in writing. I told him that at a minimum he owed me interest for the past 9 years since I finished his first frame. He said he was frustrated with me because he told me he couldn't work a lot on my interior, and that it wasn't his fault that my project took so long to build. I told him I had been trying to get him to do something on it for over two years.

We talked some more and I reminded him that he said he could finish my car "by next summer" which is a deadline I gave him last time we discussed it. He asked me what that meant and I said the end of May.....he said June 1? I said that's fine, but no later. He said he still didn't see a problem with that. So we agreed to continue working on it together again.

The problem as I see it is that Larry can't seem to handle working on two things at once. I have dozens of projects that I work on and try to make progress on all of them. I just don't see how he spends 24/7 on his new shop but he claims he does. I decided to see how things go the next couple of months. He told me he could spend more time on my interior after his shop is closed up, which he previously said would be October/November, but he won't even estimate a date now.

Bottom line is I'm in Montana now til around 10/14 and he said he will install it when I get back. I heard the same thing in April. :rolleyes:

[chevynut]

Another thing that I've been working on.... Larry told me he wanted a decision on whether I wanted contrasting thread or not before I left for Montana, so he could sew up the dash leather. I told him previously that I was leaning toward the contrasting thread because my interior is more modern. He doesn't like it and thinks it's a "fad" and it will go away in 15-20 years. By that time I won't care.

After looking at the two stitching samples Larry gave me for some reason that I didn't understand the tan thread sample just didn't wow me. I started discussing it with some guys on FB and asked some interior guys to give me some advice on thread size. After having it out with a couple of old-school assholes who didn't like contrasting thread I finally found a couple of guys who do this stuff.

As far as I can tell Larry used .009-.010" thread (#46 or $69) which is really small. The thread in my GMC truck is much larger than that. A few guys told me I should be using larger #138 thread for decorative, contrasting stitching and said some cars even use #207. Also, Larry used 5.5 to 6 threads per inch and they told me the stitches need to be longer to look good. The ones in my Sierra are around 4.5-5 stitches per inch. Also to me the thread color doesn't match the tan leather, it's just brown.

So I sent Larry an e-mail telling him I wanted #138 thread that matched the tan leather, and 4.5-5 stitches per inch. I also told him that I realized it would delay the dash, but I wanted him to sew me a sample with tan #138 thread and the longer stitches so I can be sure that's what I want.

He'll probably get pissed about this too, but he said he would do "anything you want" on my interior after doing his second frame. I haven't heard anything in response yet, but that's typical.

Here's the difference in thread sizes...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/359936195194530352/

Here's the stitching on my GMC Sierra Denali seat....

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Here's a thread size chart if anyone is interested.

https://www.sailrite.com/Selecting-the-Right-Thread-Size

[chevynut]

Larry finally came over Wednesday before Thanksgiving with the new headliner. He was hobbling badly and had sciatica. We got the headliner partly installed and he said he couldn't do any more work. He said we'd have to finish it after I got back from Mexico. December 6 was a year since we discussed continuing with the interior project. So far I have a covered sbgteerinhyg wheel and half of a headliner....in 12 months.:rolleyes:

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[chevynut]

Larry came over again after I got back from Mexico, but again delayed it as much as possible. I was home on the 9th and told him I was heading to Montana before Christmas. I told him I wanted the headliner finished and padding installed under the rear seat so I could install the seat frame, ECU, and wiring. He came over on the 15th and we finished the tweeters and the front of the headliner when he said he couldn't work anymore due to his back problem. I asked about the b-pillars and he told me he needed to make some cardboard pieces to put there and would be back the following Monday. I installed sound deadener under the rear seat so he could cover it with the padding when he came back.

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Monday arrived and I heard nothing. I contacted him late in the day and he said he had a funeral Tuesday. I had planned to leave Friday and told him I needed Thursday to pack for the trip so it had to be Wednesday and heard nothing back. I later decided to leave Saturday instead so I had Thursday open and he said he'd be up. Yeah, he showed up with no cardboard and all he did is install the padding under the rear seat which was about an hour's work. I assumed he'd bring his pressure pot and glue spray gun but he just brought brushes. I could have done that myself.

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He says we'll finish the b-pillars "when you get back" from Montana. I've heard that a hundred times this year. He also said he looked for the heavy thread and his supplier didn't have any so he'll have to wait til after January 1 to see if he has any. He could easily order it online. I told him I wanted the dash done asap so I can install my windshield. I think he thinks now that I'm re-wiring the car he can slack off.

This has been going on for years. It's been over a year since we agreed to continue the project on December 6, 2022. My headliner still isn't done and it's almost 2024.

Here's the problem....I think there's 250-300 hours worth of work left on the interior but I'm no expert. I base that on a local shop telling me they did a similar job and it took 400 hours. I haven't asked Larry to estimate the hours left. I told him in August that it HAD TO BE done June 1. He said "I don't see a problem with that" and said that after his shop is enclosed he could spend more time on it. His shop was enclosed in November. There's 5 months left until June 1, so at this point he needs to work on it 50-60 hours a month. So far I haven't gotten 5 hours a month in the best month. Now the problem is his back. At some point he needs to shit or get off the pot.

[Belair-o]

Chevynut,
Sorry the travail continues to get 'er done. The headliner does look very spiffy though!
Regards, Doug

[chevynut]

Chevynut,
Sorry the travail continues to get 'er done. The headliner does look very spiffy though!
Regards, Doug

Thanks! It's only been 13 months so far! I was told he'd install it when I got back from Montana in early May. :rolleyes:

[chevynut]

It continues.....

I got back from Montana on January 9 and texted Larry the following morning to let him know I was back as he requested. I was hoping that he would make time to come finish the headliner that week, but all I heard was a reply text asking "how long are you going to be here?". I knew that was a bad sign. I told him I'd be in Colorado until around the end of February. The I didn't hear a word for two fricking weeks so I sent him an e-mail (to document my correspondence) and asked him what his plans were to finish the interior by June 1 and told him he's running out of time. He only had 18 weeks to do what I estimate is 250-300 hours of work on it.

He replied to the e-mail with a text (he doesn't seem to like documenting our conversations) and said he was sorry for the delay, and planned on coming over in a week. Another week gone. So he finally came over February 2, almost a month after I got back, and all he did was cut the cardboard for the b-pillars and took them home. He did bring my tailgate cover with the carpet on it, and told me I could install it. That should be his job but I don't have a problem doing it.

I asked about the stitching sample and he said he didn't have time to set up his machine and make one for me. So he said he'll sew up the dash and have Auto Weave do the top stitching per my specs. I told him we needed to get a sample from them for me to approve but who knows when that will happen.

The "good" news is that he is finally admitting he can't get this done himself. He told me he's going to have another shop in Denver, Auto Weave, do the seats. Ron, the owner, is a long-time friend of Larry's and he's the one I talked to last year about doing the car if I fired Larry. I don't know what the plans are to get him working on it, but Larry said to "get the seats ready" to take down there. I told him the seats are pretty much independent of everything else, at least the front ones. We need to put foam on the rear seat bases so I can finish the console construction so I'll push him to do that.

He was here about 3 hours and got very little done. He told me I needed to fill the grooves in the floor with something, and that he'd be back in about 2 weeks. I have a feeling that's not going to happen and he'll tell me to get ahold of him when I get back from Montana again....typical pattern.

Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out how to fill the floor grooves. Larry says they will show through the wool carpet and he wants a clean, smooth floor. He said to use Lizardskin or bondo to fill them which I don't want to do. So I plan to "bridge" the grooves with thin metal or plastic laminate, and cover the metal with sound deadener. I did the passenger footwell and it's a long, painstaking process. I will need to fill the grooves in the toe boards and I'll probably use some sort of lightweight filler.

He once told me the carpet was about the last thing, but now he wants to install it. it can't go in before the dash though, because the dash needs to be glued on and I'm not real keen on having glue in the car with carpet in it.

So basically still no progress, but he's starting to understand the urgency. He has my passenger seat and the driver's seat is still in the car. I need to remove it and take both seats to Denver myself and talk to Ron at Auto Weave, show him my design, and find out what it's going to take to get the seats done.

Here's the floor smoothed out. It's a ton of work to do this so I need a better process.

13977

[chevynut]

I have been looking for something good to "bridge" across the ribs in the floor and a friend of mine took me to his son-in-law's sheetmetal shop. I found some coated .020" steel siding that works great. It's even black :-D. It's apparently a high strength steel alloy and works great without making the sound deadener bulge over it. I cut it into strips so it fit over the areas I wanted to flatten. I tried a few different things to stick it down with and ended up with silicone caulk that seems to work well.

[chevynut]

Passenger side is done. I have started covering the driver's side. Not sure what to do with the toe board ribs.


13989

[asbicca]

When I did my interior I used scrap pieces of the Fat Matt material to build up the low spots in the floor.

[chevynut]

When I did my interior I used scrap pieces of the Fat Matt material to build up the low spots in the floor.

That's probably not a bad way to do it. The ribs are only about 3/16" deep except under the seat. I saw a YouTube video where a guy put strips of jute in the grooves. The pieces of thin steel seem to be working good. I really don't know if the ribs will show through the carpet but Larry says they will. I may do what you did on the toe boards.

I just found out that Ron is booked up until April 1. The front seats are pretty much independent of anything else, but the rear seat cushions need to be glued up so I can work on the console. Larry has 16 weeks to finish this interior and I just told him I'll be gone 7-8 of those weeks. He gets nothing done when I'm gone.....and not much when I'm here. I've been back from Montana for over a month and he has done almost nothing on it. I asked him over the weekend when he's going to come over this week and finish the headliner, and he hasn't replied. When he left on February 2 he said he'd be back in "two weeks".

[chevynut]

When I did my interior I used scrap pieces of the Fat Matt material to build up the low spots in the floor.

Thanks for the idea...it worked great. 4 layers of sound deadener and the toe board area was pretty much flat. I put aluminum tape over it.

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13991

[chevynut]

When he came over on 2/2 Larry brought my tailgate cover over and handed it to me to install it. It's his job, but I don't mind doing this stuff....in fact I like doing it. If I waited for him to do it it would take weeks. I made an aluminum panel and he glued carpet to it. Today I notched it for the screws and did a temporary installation. I still have to cut out the access hole area so I marked it for cutting. I'm using new Madmooks stainless trim and his stainless access cover.

13992

[asbicca]

That is exactly what I did. By the way if you are using the square weave European style carpet, it is stiff enough that it really hides any floor variations.

[chevynut]

That is exactly what I did. By the way if you are using the square weave European style carpet, it is stiff enough that it really hides any floor variations.

I don't know what "square weave" is but the carpet is what's on the tailgate in the picture. It's a wool Mercedes carpet and yes it's pretty stiff and not very thick. Again, thanks for the help.

[asbicca]

Here is a picture of the Square Weave Wool Carpet that I used in my wagon. The pictures makes it look more linear than it is.

[chevynut]

Got the tailgate done and part of the driver's floor sound deadener down today.

Larry finally texted me and is supposed to come over Friday afternoon to finish the b-pillars that he should have finished last time, the Friday before last. I sent him an e-mail regarding my "priorities" to get the interior done. I told him I'm trying to help him get this done, and he needs to do things so I can help him finish it. I also told him that installing the carpet isn't going to help me do anything else, and might make things worse, so I don't want it done now. He once said that the carpet was close to the last thing to install, so I don't know why he's wanting to do it now.

Once the headliner is finished, if it gets done Friday, I told him I want him to get me a stitch sample to approve before the end of next week, when I leave for Montana, using the right size and color of thread and the right stitch length. How fricking hard is it to set up a machine and make a 6" French seam? Then I want the dash sewn up by the time I return around March 10 and I want it installed it shortly afterward. Once the dash is in I can install the windshield, windshield stainless, all the ducts, A/C and heat controls, glove box, instruments, clock, etc and basically finish up the entire dash.

I also told him I needed the foam put on the rear seat panels so I can match the console to the contour. I said I wanted that done by the time I got back too. He has almost month to do those two things, which should be plenty of time. I don't think it's too much to ask for, and without me telling him what to do he does nothing. I've decide to try driving him instead of letting him coast along like he does. We'll see how it works. If he doesn't do these things, I plan to tell him to just pay me what he owes me and I'll find someone else to do it. At this rate there's no way he's going to finish the interior by June 1.

13998

[chevynut]

Here is a picture of the Square Weave Wool Carpet that I used in my wagon. The pictures makes it look more linear than it is.

That looks really nice. Mine is more of a "plush" carpet. I noticed you basically have one piece per side. Larry told me he was going to make it in 2-3 pieces per side. I don't know why he wants to do it that way. I'd prefer no seam along the rocker so I'm going to push him to do one piece per side since it can obviously be done. How do you mold it? Is it all glued down?

[asbicca]

I cannot answer your question about how the carpet was installed. My Upholsterer did all the work. I dropped it off and it was done a month later.

[chevynut]

Good news!!! :cool: Three months after starting the installation the headliner is finished! Larry came over Friday and installed the b-pillar cardboard and glued and stapled the headliner down. He installed the dome lights too. It took him about 3 hours so as far as I can tell he's spent about 22 hours the past 14 months on my car including my estimate of the time he's spending on it outside my shop.:rolleyes:

We had some discussions about him getting things done so I can get things done and keep the project moving, and what needs to be done next. He admitted that the carpet shouldn't go in yet and he was just trying to get something done for me. He's said he's working on trying to get the dash sewn up to install it when I get back from Montana in about 3 weeks. I need him to get a stitch sample for me to approve with larger thread before the top-stitching is done by Ron.

I installed all the interior pieces that I have finished so far and we talked about some details I need to do to get ready for putting foam on the rear seats. He didn't like the gaps in a couple of places so I have to work on them, and we have to shape the front of the seat bottom and top of the seat back before he installs the foam. Then Ron can cover both the front and rear seats and we can focus on the rest.

I've been working on tying up loose ends so I spent the past couple of days machining some bushings for the seat belt bolts and clearancing the rear armrests and side panels since I installed the sound deadener on the wheel tubs. I checked to make sure the dome lights worked and installed the lenses which for some reason were a pain in the ass. They were original bezels and NOS GM lenses so I don't know why I had to modify them a little to get them in. I'm also installing the upper chrome interior moldings permanently, and the lower ones temporarily to make sure they fit. They will still need paint later. I'm running into some issues with the passenger side where I shimmed up the slider window channel to match the outside stainless....now it's too high for the interior trim so I have to figure out what to do about that.

I need to get Larry over again soon to discuss some details like foam thicknesses on side panels, console, and armrests and the design of the cargo area.

I hope he follows through and gets this dash pad in soon. It will enable me to do a whole bunch more work.

I found this car and I really like the interior, aside from the lights. It even has the same Cadillac seats I have. I think the dash stitching is a little too big for my taste which is why I want a sample to look at.

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345132026_941007063610072_8929199703381940639_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=9Y6nfbu5ywkAX9AB56d&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AfCxJOgGuGJjxTF9u2KzHq58NXRY7jJCFf_9JbNMXHza dw&oe=65D8C585

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345021387_578051517649261_4993300865500723973_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=t_W9c7RiqssAX-03gnq&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBNvGEbaoaQ5d7xOR94QNkx2olEMlDY3GtH24CNyzzu mw&oe=65D9425D

[Belair-o]

Nice that Larry is making some progress - hope he continues. Those dash pad stitches are pretty prominent!

[567chevys]

That 55 looks really good I think the stitching is to coarse for the dash , seats look really good .

Thanks Sid

[chevynut]

Today I enlisted my neighbor who has a nice woodworking shop to help me add some wood to the side of my plywood seat backs to close the gaps a little. We glued some strips of pine to the plywood on both inboard sides. Next I have to trim them back a little to make them fit like Larry wants them. The fronts of the seat bottoms needed to curve outward to follow the armrests, so we added some wood there too. Tomorrow I will trim them back to fit the armrests, then get Larry over to do the final gapping and shaping of the seats so he can glue the foam onto them.

I spent quite a bit of time installing the quarter window chrome trim today. I'm fighting the upper curved piece by the liftgate on the driver's side and just can't seem to get it to fit. And the screw holes seem to be in the wrong place. This part came off of my car so I can't figure out what's going on and I may have to drill a new screw hole. The passenger side went in fine. Once I get that piece installed all I have left for the quarter window chrome moldings is the liftgate hinge cover which should be easy to install.

I have the stainless pieces over the doors straightened and polished so they can be installed, but I will probably have to remove them or at least loosen them to install the windshield moldings when the windshield is installed.

I got all the wires hooked up to my stereo amp under the driver's side rear seat. I realized I still have to run the wires to the rear speakers which I'll do when I remove the console again.

I've been working several hours a day to keep things moving and check things off my list. Larry is holding up a lot of them. Trying to figure out how to finish off my cargo area so I can start fabricating parts for it.

14003

[WagonCrazy]

You're making great progress. I see a finished Nomad coming up soon.

But using wood?

[chevynut]

But using wood?

Plywood for the seat bottom and back. What would you use? Most interior guys build the entire console, armrests and everything out of wood or MDF.

[chevynut]

After fighting the corner piece of chrome I finally got it installed. Turns out my screw wasn't long enough to reach the hole way back up in the corner. I went to put the liftgate hinge cover on and ran into another problem. I put the weatherstrip stainless retainer on with pop rivets that extend downward through the body sheetmetal. These were spot welded from the factory, but I could find no evidence of mine ever having one. Anyhow, the pop rivets now interfere with the chrome cover. Not sure what to do there yet since I don't want the stainless retainer to come off. I may grind them down a bit and cover them with some foam to hide them under the cover.

14004

I trimmed the wood down that we added to my plywood bases so now they're net fit to the sheetmetal. I sent Larry the pics of them and he's coming over in the morning tomorrow to discuss clearances, height, length, etc. I'm going to give him a pass on getting the foam on them right away because I really need the dash done first. I marked the location of the seat framework so we can discuss how high the seat back should be and how far the bottom should extend forward of the seat valence.

14005

I think I'll go ahead and install the stainless molding over the doors even though I'll probably have to remove it to get the a-pillar molding on. Maybe I can just loosen it partway. :)

[chevynut]

I ran into something today that I didn't know. As you can see the front of my rear seats are pretty close to the door opening. The front of the plywood is about 5" back from the b-pillar/door jamb. I don't remember how I arrived at that dimension and how I designed my seat frame, but I started getting a little concerned about rear leg room since Larry mentioned it. He wanted to cut the seat base to about 1" forward of the frame, but I want rounded corners on them and I think that's too far back.

I asked a friend to measure his Nomad with the original rear seat from the door jamb back to the front of the seat. He said it was 12", which is 7" further back than mine. So I dug up some GM specs on this and it gets interesting.

Using the GM drawings, I scaled that measurement on a Nomad at about 8.4" (not sure how he got 12"). On a sedan it's about 5.4" and on a hardtop it's just under 2". So the front of the rear seat on a hardtop is almost even with the door opening.

The drawings show that the front seats are in the identical positions on all models. So since I have about 5" with a 3" overhang on the seat base, I should be fine no matter how much I cut off.

Also, here's another interesting tidbit. On a Nomad the rear seat bottom is 17.2" front to back, it's 18.2" on a sedan, and 18.5" on a hardtop. My seat base is 22" long so we can put 4-5" of foam on the seat back and still have 17"-18" to sit on. The rear seats are about 21" wide which is about the same as the front Cadillac buckets. The rear seat back is 24 1/2" tall but we'll be cutting around 2" off of it and the base will cover part of it. I think it turned out pretty good even if I didn't know what I was doing. LOL! :D

[chevynut]

Larry came over today and we had a great chat. We looked over the rear seat area and discussed the nitty gritty details. I explained to him that I saw no problem with the seat bottom position and showed him the GM drawings I looked over. We decided on the gaps and as I expected, almost all the wood I glued on will be taken back off. We also established the height of the seat back, and discussed the carpet in the cargo area. I will have to remove part of my framework and cut it and re-weld it to address the increase in thickness of the carpet and pad. I told him my priority is to get the dash in and he agreed, and said he will work on it. He agreed that the stitch on the dash picture I posted is way too big, so we're going to try to settle on the correct stitches.

Here's the clearancing I did, before and after trimming the seat bottom. I didn't have time today to do the backs. I was surprised he wanted this much clearance...3/8" at the console and 1/2" at the armrests.

14006

14007

14008

14009

[chevynut]

Finished with the seats. Also connected and ran the rear speaker wires from the amp.

14010

14011

[Belair-o]

Progress! Good job, rock and roll!

[chevynut]

Trying to move forward with the interior now that the headliner is finished. With the padding that's going to be put on the front of the seat bases, and the large 3" overhang, I decided to take 1/2" off the front. It's not a big difference, but I think it will look better with the valence underneath the seats.

Early this week I went down to Denver to discuss thread size and color with Ron at Auto Weave. I didn't want to send samples back and forth so it made more sense to me to go there since we need to nail this down so Larry can do the padded dash. Larry had talked to Ron and told me they found a color called "Chinese Rust" that was the closest match to the tan leather that they could find in the larger size thread. Larry told me that he uses 138 thread and knowing that he doesn't like contrasting decorative thread I suspected it wasn't big enough for my tastes. I told him I probably wanted a larger thread. When I went to see Ron he had a sample of charcoal leather sewn with Chinese Rust 270 thread and another with 138 kind of a taupe color. This is all done with 4 stitches per inch. I think the rust color would pretty much disappear in the 138 size. Ron didn't have any of the tan leather, which Larry told me he'd take to him so we couldn't really see what it looked like on that.

14049

We decided that the color should work good with the tan leather and we all agreed that the 270 thread is probably too big for what I want. I'm not even sure why they used that size for a sample because I didn't ask for it. Ron said the 270 thread is easy to snag and he doesn't recommend it for seats. I mentioned a 210 thread and Ron said he's never heard of it. I pulled it up on my phone in Chinese Rust and the thread thickness is about halfway between the 138 and the 270.

I'm still unsure about what to do. Thread colors are pretty limited in the larger thread sizes. I've been focusing on the charcoal dash so much that I didn't think about the contrasting thread on my seats, which will be mostly tan with charcoal inserts. I don't know if it makes sense to use charcoal contrast thread on the seat seams or not. Usually contrast threads are lighter color than the leather. I could go with a light tan that shows up on both colors of leather but I'm still thinking about it. I have other charcoal leather areas that we could put decorative thread on at the seams, or create seams to give some detail to the interior.

I'm also looking at the rest of the interior and I wanted to use some carbon fiber accents in the car. I saw some carbon fiber work at SEMA where they used regular charcoal fiber cloth and tinted the epoxy different colors. This is an all carbon fiber 69 Camaro body.

14050

I ran across some orange hybrid cloth that uses carbon fiber and aramid (Kevlar) fiber to give a pretty unique look. I want to cover the wood on my door spears so I need to think about how to do that. The orange would complement the car color and the color of the thread. But the regular gray carbon fiber would also go well with my charcoal leather. Decisions, decisions....:p

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/71oAAOSw27FbRIJK/s-l1600.jpg

https://compositeenvisions.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/380-wet-dry.jpg

[WagonCrazy]

This is such a personal taste/choice decision that I don't feel compelled to give my opinion. I think you are miles ahead of me on this anyway. Keep on with it Laszlo!

[chevynut]

Thanks Paul. I know this is a personal taste thing and I'm trying to visualize how it looks before I do it. I'm fairly good at that but it's a scary thing to commit to something you'll have to live with "forever". That's why I've been asking for stitch samples. The problem is Larry keeps dropping the ball on this stuff. He should have gotten me stitch samples on both colors of leather with a couple of different thread sizes and colors so we could get past this quickly. I've been asking him for some samples for months.

[chevynut]

While waiting for Larry to come over to work on the foam on the rear seats, I removed the armrests and added two stiffeners to the backside. one stiffener is at the top where a person's arm would lay, and another one is on the side where the seat foam will push against it. The armrests are made of aluminum but they flexed quite a bit and the stiffeners made of 1/16" x 3/4" aluminum angle really stiffened them up.

I also put a strip of neoprene foam on the chrome liftgate hinge cover and got it installed. This allowed me to leave the rivets intact while making a nice-looking closed gap between the cover and the body.

14051

I have to design the cargo area panels and figure out how to cover the tubs. In retrospect, I wish I'd not made the tubs as wide as I did. I only needed about 1-1 1/2" but I brought them all the way in to the frame rails. I was originally planning to cover the tubs with leather or carpet, but not we're going to enclose them. I also have to remove the rear structure again and raise the bottom 1/4" because Larry wants carpet and pad under it. I originally only planned for carpet.

I'm still working on the details of the color scheme for the interior.

[WagonCrazy]

Didn't you have a battery access door cut into the rear passenger inner fender? How will you deal with that if you enclose the inner fender?

[chevynut]

Didn't you have a battery access door cut into the rear passenger inner fender? How will you deal with that if you enclose the inner fender?

No, my battery is a drop-down stainless box behind the rear tire.

14052

[chevynut]

I got back from Montana almost two weeks ago and texted Larry when I was driving home to let him know. I heard nothing in reply so I texted him again 4 days later and asked when he wanted to come work on the rear seat foam. He replied that he'd be over "sometime next week". A week later he finally showed up. He hasn't done a thing in 6 weeks except come over for less than an hour a month ago to tell me what clearances he wanted around the seat boards.

Anyhow, he took the seat boards and I told him I needed them back finished with foam so I can contour the rear of the console to match. I'm heading to our place in Texas on the 4th for a week and I hope he gets it done before I leave, but I'm not holding my breath. He still has several weeks of work on his shop and his telling me last August that a June 1 completion "shouldn't be a problem" seems to be a problem now. Even with Ron doing the seats the rest of the interior needs work. If push comes to shove I will have Ron do some more of it and bill Larry. If he doesn't like that I'll fire him and have Ron finish the car.

I've been working on doing the final riveting on the front part of the console. It's been held together for a long time with Clecos. I also added some detail to the console trim pieces to complement the door spears. They will be covered with leather.

14065

14066

[Belair-o]

Very cool custom work you are designing and building!

[567chevys]

Very Nice work Laszlo ,

Should be a very bad ass 56 Mad when you get it done

Sid

[chevynut]

Thanks guys.

I really think with all the work I've done on this interior that I'd be way better off having Larry pay me what he owes me and get the interior done elsewhere. The shop doing my seats said they did a similar Nomad interior and it was 400 hours at I think $80 per hour. That's $32K for building and fabbing everything in the car. I've done 80% of the door and side panels, I've done 75% of the console, and all the rear seat, front seat brackets, dash valence, and 25% of the cargo area. I'm guessing there's about half left or 200 hours. That's only $16K and Larry owes me a lot more than that. If he doesn't deliver my foamed seat panels before I leave for TX I'm finished with him. It'll only be 8 weeks until June 1 by then and at the rate he's (not) working it won't be done for many months.

I've been working on the front console outside the car. There's tons of little details like adding PEMs for screws and riveting everything together. I had to make some pieces to simulate the base that's still in the car and won't come back out. It's a lot easier and cleaner to work on the console out of the car.

I'm trying to design the top covers now. I machined a slot under the trim piece below my stereo to capture the panel, then I need to split the panel in front of the shifter to be able to get to my fuse panel and control modules without removing the entire panel with the shifter boot. I formed a 3/16"x1/2" stainess bar on my tube bender so it wouldn't just be a boring straight piece of trim. This is where I plan to split the panel. Access would be by removing 3 screws. I'll do something similar behind the console box.

For the shifter boot design I'm thinking about complementing the door handles, lights, and the A/C vents by making it oval too. The boot is offset to the driver's side because the shifter is offset. The light sensor bezel for the Dakota Digital automatic headlights is oval and it's almost done. It will go on the leather dash near the windshield. Here's the 3D rendering of it.

14067

I need to have Larry, or whoever is eventually doing the leatherwork, add a little foam to the console lid to make it fit the console a little better. The three hole piece is something Sid laser cut for me many years ago and it's for my window switches and door locks. I'll weld some threaded studs to the plate and epoxy it to the bottom of the cover to attach the switches. That's the way I attached the switches to the valence. The black line is where I think I want a seam stitched to add some detail so it's not so boring...ideas would be welcome. Still not sure what color leather I'm going to use on the console.

By the way, Sid also laser cut the aluminum top plate that holds the lid. Thanks Sid!!! :cool:

14068

14069

[chevynut]

Here's the whole console with the valence pieces in place before I made the latest changes. Notice the rear console is still only roughed out....that's why I'm waiting for Larry to bring the seat boards back with foam on them.

14070

[chevynut]

The boot is offset to the driver's side because the shifter is offset.

I just realized that the T56 shifter is actually centered over the tailshaft. I now remember taking the Hurst Billet Plus T56 shifter and rotating the internal lever 180 degrees to put the splines/grooves on the opposite side so the stick mounts on the opposite side. The shifter stick is 10" long and it is straight but bent sideways on the bottom. My intention at the time was to move the shifter stick closer to the driver's side. I may have to re-visit that and see if I can or want to center it better.

[chevynut]

Working on colors. I printed out some pics I have in monochrome and used colored pencils to give me an idea what the upholstery will look like when done. I can visualize some of this but it helps to see it on paper. Good thing I paid attention in kindergarten. :D

Here's the door. The area above the armrest with the dots is perforated tan leather. The dark areas are charcoal, but I don't know if I'm using carpet or leather at the very bottom of the door.

14080

Here's the entire side of the interior drawn before i built it.

14081

Here's the cargo area plan with the cover on. Still haven't built much there except the speaker area.

14082

Here's two options I'm considering for the console. I originally planned for the valence to be charcoal along with the "spears" that go down the top of the console. Then the console itself would be tan, with the console lid two-tone with charcoal on the sides. After seeing it, I was concerned about too much charcoal in the dash area since the top of the dash is charcoal leather, and the dash is painted charcoal. So I tried making the valence and the spears tan, with the console charcoal and the lid two-tone but charcoal on top and tan on the sides. The charcoal top would go well with carbon fiber on the top of the console. If I use orange carbon fiber the tan may be better there. The tan valence also flows better with the tan on the doors and probably the kick panels.

14083

14084

[Belair-o]

Chevynut,
Clever and helpful idea to colorize the pics!
Thanks, Doug

[TrifiveRichard]

The interior is really going to pop! It'll look great

[chevynut]

Thanks guys. Monday morning I'm heading down to Denver to talk to Ron and look at the stitch samples on both colors of leather. I wouldn't have to do this again if Larry would have taken a tan sample down when he was supposed to a month ago. I plan to discuss the situation with Ron and try to figure out how to make some progress since Larry hasn't really done shit in over 6 weeks since he finished the headliner that took him 3 months to do. He's supposed to be doing the rear seat foam work now to get the seat boards to Ron, but I'm skeptical that anything is getting done as usual. I told him I wanted the boards first before they went to Ron. Something has to change.

I started laying out the cargo area covers today. I haven't really done anything there since I made the boards for the top of the rear seat area except to install the sound deadener on the wheelwells. I'm going to prototype a few designs and see what I like the best.

14085

14086

Honestly, I'm wishing I didn't make the rear tubs as big as I did. I just tubbed them almost to the frame, which was narrowed 3" as was the C4 suspension. There is really no benefit to me moving them in 3 1/2" per side because the suspension doesn't allow the tire that far inboard. I have over 2" from the inside of the tires to the wheelwell, so I could have made the wheelwells at least 1" narrower per side which would have saved me some headaches now with the interior. Live and learn.:rolleyes:

14087

[WagonCrazy]

It's coming along nicely in my opinion. I wouldn't loose sleep over the wheel well situation. Just accomodate for it in your design and get it done.


Something has to change.

I think you are getting to the point of the matter here. This guy you originally horse-traded the deal for a customized tri5 frame for custom upholstery work isn't panning out. You already know that by his lack of action. So you already know what to do here (if you want to finish your Nomad in 2024). Cut bait and fish elsewhere.
Sure...you can lean on him to square up his end of your deal by paying you an agreed difference in $. But honestly Laszlo, you will expend tremendous negative energy and stress on yourself by expecting him to make good. He's already shown you is lack of motivation. Find another upholsterer and get this beautiful car on the road for everyone to see. Life is short brutha. Don't waste too much more energy on being "right" here. Just move on. That's my advice as a friend over a virtual beer!

[chevynut]

It's coming along nicely in my opinion. I wouldn't loose sleep over the wheel well situation. Just accomodate for it in your design and get it done

That's exactly what I plan to do. My point is that I didn't need the room for the tires, I just moved the wheelwells farther than I needed to. I have a plan for addressing it.




I think you are getting to the point of the matter here. This guy you originally horse-traded the deal for a customized tri5 frame for custom upholstery work isn't panning out. You already know that by his lack of action. So you already know what to do here (if you want to finish your Nomad in 2024). Cut bait and fish elsewhere.

That's coming to a head. He told me in August that when his shop was "closed in" he could spend more time on my car. It's been "closed in" for months. To me "closed in" means weatherproofed and even though the garage doors still aren't on, the openings are covered up. I've asked him several times when the shop is going to get done and he won't say. I told myself that if he didn't get significant work done by January, I was done with him. Then he acted like he was more motivated to get things done when he said Ron would be doing my seats. More recently I sent him some drawings asking for some advice so I can get things done and he hasn't replied. I have been doing work he's supposed to have done.


Sure...you can lean on him to square up his end of your deal by paying you an agreed difference in $. But honestly Laszlo, you will expend tremendous negative energy and stress on yourself by expecting him to make good.

Paul, this isn't about being "right", it's about a debt he owes me of around $34K. I will sue him for that much if he doesn't pay up and settle with me. He already offered to settle in December 2022 and we talked about it and decided to continue to work together on it. I thought that meeting we had would change things, but nothing changed for over a year. He booked time with Ron for doing my seats in early April. We're there and he has my seat boards. If I get back from Texas in a week and he hasn't prepared the foam on the boards, he's done as far as I'm concerned. I have my numbers together and I'll have to see what he's willing to settle for, but it's not at my shop rate 10 years ago.

[chevynut]

I don't understand these interior guys. I went to Ron's to look at the new stitch sample on the tan leather. We agreed at the last visit that he would get some Chinese Rust thread in 210 thickness and run a couple of seams. He told me a while ago that he got the thread, and that he'd have a sample ready for me. The color of the thread was different and at first he said it was just because it was a different supplier than his previous sample.

Gary and I left to have lunch and I texted Ron to send me a pic of the label on each of the spools of thread. The 270 thread said "Chinese Rust" which was the prior sample I thought was too thick of thread. He said the second spool didn't have a label but he sent me the invoice, which said it was "Bourbon Brown". I drove all the way to Denver to find out that he didn't even order Chinese Rust, even though I gave him a DIRECT LINK to a website that sold it called "The Thread Exchange". I even told him I would order it and have it shipped to him a couple of weeks ago. Apparently like Larry he doesn't even read his damn e-mails.

But there's something else that went on here. Larry gave me a sample of "Ferrari Tan" several years ago and said he had several hides and he'd sell me the ones I needed. I agreed. He also sent out a hide to have it perforated. I got the perforation samples from him and the color matched the original sample he gave me. He gave Ron the tan leather to make the stitch samples and it's not the same color. Here's a pic showing the original perforated sample and the new color.

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I texted him the pic and stopped by his house to discuss this. He told me he just ordered the perforation sample and that's what they sent him. But why does the first leather sample he gave me match the perforated sample? In this pic, the first sample I got is on the far right, the first perforation sample I got is in the middle, and the actual leather he says we're using is on the left. He gave me that piece of it.

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I don't know why the color changed but he said it was a "different lot". I call bs. Something is going on here. But as it turns out I actually like the new color better, so did Gary and Ron.

The new color is actually more reddish than the original one, so I think the "Chinese Rust" would essentially disappear on it. Coincidentally, the Bourbon Brown color actually looks pretty good on it and on the charcoal. But for some reason his sample wasn't at the 4 stitches per inch we agreed on. So he got the stitch length and the color wrong, but the color isn't too bad and I may go with it. Two of the stitches here are Chinese Rust and the rest are the Bourbon Brown.

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[chevynut]

Got feedback from Ron and Gary and they both like this color scheme for the console. So I'm pretty sure this is what I'm going with. Still have some time to tweak it if I want to. I hope the thread color shows the French seams well enough. I'll probably do the decorative stitch below the "spears" just for detail. It will match the dash seam.

https://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14084&d=1711726561

[chevynut]

I just got back from a week at our place in south Texas and I took my stitch samples with me so I could think about what I want to do. I decided to try a lighter colored tan or beige thread that contrasts a little more with the tan leather. I ordered a spool of each and they're being shipped to Ron's shop to arrive Monday. The available colors for T210 thread are very limited so I don't have a lot of choices so I'm down to three. I told Larry back in December that I wanted him to give me some stitch samples so I could decide on thread color. He didn't do anything.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81rXF1+-0NL._AC_SL1500_.jpghttps://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/813aFgjVv9L._AC_SL1500_.jpg


I also told Larry to get the dash leather sewn up and get it down to Ron so he can stitch it up as soon as I decide on the thread color. He said when he was at my shop 3 weeks ago that he would get that done right away...it's still not done. I also told Larry and Ron in an e-mail that I wanted the dash installed by the time I leave for Montana again around the 19th of April. That gave him a week and a half to plan for it. I told Larry yesterday to let me know when he wants to come up to install it. He hasn't said one word about it and I'm betting nothing happens. He hasn't worked on my car in two months now.

Larry took my rear seat boards 3 weeks ago today on March 22. He told me two months ago that he booked the first two weeks in April for Ron to do my seats. He was supposed to put foam on those boards and get them back to me so I could contour the rear console, and then get them to Ron. As far as I know, nothing has been done with the seat boards either and it's mid-April. Both Ron and I are waiting on Larry now.

I have decided that if Larry doesn't at least deliver the dash leather to Ron by the end of next week I'm done messing around with him. I've set and moved time limits far too long. He told me in August that getting the car done by June 1 would "not be a problem". I know he knew I meant 2024 :rolleyes:. I was encouraged when he came up and we discussed the clearancing of the rear seat boards and getting the dash done back on February 22. Seven weeks later nothing more is done.

If he gets the leather to Ron and Ron gets it stitched up, I want it installed within a week after I return from Montana. I have been advised by my friend Gary to at least go that far with him, because that will allow me to install the windshield and get the entire under-dash put together and the front end on. It's unlikely I could get anyone else to install the dash at my house and Ron told me he's booked up til winter. So if the dash doesn't get done I'm stuck.

At the pace Larry is going, his shop won't be done for another year. I can't sit around and wait for him that long so if I can just get the dash installed I'm going to cut bait and try to find someone else to work with and settle with Larry. My patience is gone.

[bigblock]

Cnut you done wayyyy better than I would have.

[chevynut]

Cnut you done wayyyy better than I would have.

Yeah, I've put up with a lot of shit from Larry. The problem is I've built most of this interior already and it needs to be finished in the materials I've already started with or started over from scratch. No interior shop is going to finish the console in metal. Few if any will do the fiberglass work that needs to be done on the side panels. I asked Ron if he could finish the console and he said they don't do metal work at all. I don't even think they do fiberglass work. These guys build with MDF and wood and cardboard. So I've been stuck with me and Larry doing this and I've been willing to do the fab work if he does the upholstery. But he's not doing anything.

I asked Ron if he could help me by just doing parts I bring to him and he didn't turn it down. He did say he couldn't accept responsibility for the fit since they wouldn't have the car there. I told him it would have to be there to install the carpet and he said he had no room for it until winter. My time is running out. I will be putting my Colorado house up for sale next year, and the car has to be done so I can take it to Montana. I told Larry it needed to be done by summer 2024 and he agreed to commit to that, which he's now trying to weasel out of. In the meantime, schedules at other shops just get filled up.

One of my friends who has known Larry for decades told me two years ago that he would never finish it. I didn't believe him. I was told by another guy who knows him that "Larry has no concept of time". I have to cut ties with Larry or this is never going to get done.

[WagonCrazy]

One of my friends who has known Larry for decades told me two years ago that he would never finish it. I didn't believe him. I was told by another guy who knows him that "Larry has no concept of time". I have to cut ties with Larry or this is never going to get done.

I vote for this option. Get your plan B figured out with another upholsterer and move on. The clock is ticking on us all and you've spent too much time on this aspect of your build.

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I vote for this option. Get your plan B figured out with another upholsterer and move on. The clock is ticking on us all and you've spent too much time on this aspect of your build.

Yes Paul, I've probably been too patient with Larry but he doesn't respond to pressure well. He called me yesterday and said he wasn't going to be able to sew up the dash until today. He's having some issues he has to take care of and he's focused on his shop. I made the mistake of telling him I was still working with Ron on thread color and I would be leaving for MT on Friday. I told him I was going to be gone for 2-3 weeks and I wanted the dash installed shortly after I got back. So now he has more time to get it to Ron. I'm okay with that for now but he'd better get his ass up and get it installed the week I get back. After that's installed, I can get a lot of work done and decide what to do with the rest of the interior. Ron should be working on the seats by then too.

Like I said, I have a problem in that I need someone to work with me on the rest of the interior, or I'll need to ditch my console and maybe even the door panels which I don't want to do. I'm kind of stuck here. Maybe someone could do the door panels for me and the carpet. But I really have to finish this console myself, I think. Upholstery shops have their own way of building stuff, and I don't know if anyone would want to finish the metal console. I really can't start all over on that with all my electronics in it.

I've been working on details for the console, and I could theoretically be doing fiberglass work on the door panels too. Every little bit gets me closer to done. I'm also busy trying to design my shop and get it started this spring.

I'm so pissed about the windshield gasket. I've bought two of them and neither of them fits right. The stainless won't fit on either one.

[WagonCrazy]

Upholstery shops have their own way of building stuff, and I don't know if anyone would want to finish the metal console.

I may be in the same situation, as my console (when finished) will be fabricated in steel. (not wood. No wood in my nomad. Period) Wood went out in cars along with leaf springs about 100 years ago ;)).

[Belair-o]

Well, maybe except Morgan sports cars which still have wood frames!
That fact has always amazed me! :eek:

[chevynut]

I may be in the same situation, as my console (when finished) will be fabricated in steel. (not wood. No wood in my nomad. Period) Wood went out in cars along with leaf springs about 100 years ago ;)).

You've asked me a few times why I'm using some wood in my car. The only places I've used it is the cargo area floor to make it smooth and give something to attach carpet and additional structure to, and the rear seat boards. What would you have used there if you didn't want to use wood? I suppose I could have used some aluminum honeycomb material.

You may have a hard time finding someone to upholster your console, depending on how you build it. Robert made his out of steel and found someone to cover it. I've tried to think about how to cover mine every step of the way.

[BamaNomad]

I may be in the same situation, as my console (when finished) will be fabricated in steel. (not wood. No wood in my nomad. Period) Wood went out in cars along with leaf springs about 100 years ago ;)).

Are you sure?? Did you eliminate the rear seat and rear cargo floor (which used marine grade plywood originally)???