Building New Shop

[Fladiver64]

I am going to be closing in a couple of weeks on a new house (with any luck). There is room for a 30 x 60 shop, and before anyone says build bigger, this si bigger than I originally thought and is as big as I can get given the current property. I am looking at gogin with a steel building because they seem to be the best bang for the buck and I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with steel buildings the would like to share.

My current plan is 30 x 60 with 14' side walls and a 3:12 pitch roof. 2 10 x 12 roll up doors and a single 36" man door. I thought about more doors but that does remove valuable wall space. I am planning on a vent on one end and a fan on the other for ventilation and the possibility of big ceiling fans added later. Basics will start with a 200 amp service and I will work on the electrical as time goes on. My first concern is the shell, anyone have a good company to call? Installation will be in Florida so wind loading is a factor.

There seams to be two basic types, the "red Iron" building, which is like a commercial structure, and the 2x2 metal truss structure, which is a little less money but does not give the volume space in the roof area like a red iron building. Would love to hear what others have done.

Thanks

Mike

[chevynut]

I stick-built mine in two parts for a total of about 2450 square feet and it is finished just like my house. My son did a 40x60 pole barn and it seems to be a good way to go. I really don't know the pros and cons of a metal building. Are you going to insulate it?

[Rick_L]

Sounds like you have a plan for a nice shop.

Around here a good option is a metal building. Mueller is one of the names for those here, but I have no idea if they are in your area. Not sure what you mean by a "red iron" building - maybe that's what we call a metal building here.

[MP&C]

Mike, with a metal building, if you don't have an insulated ceiling separating the work area and an attic area you are likely to have condensation issues inside.

[Fladiver64]

My plan is to have insulation installed between the frame and the sheeting, probably R-10, and that is supposed to control condensation. Stick build here is a difficult becuase of the wind loading requirements and you just ring the dinner bell for termites. I looked at block construction and truss roof system but the cost is over double.

Example of a "red Iron" building http://www.bucksteel.com/steel-garage-building.html

Example of Truss built tubing building http://www.blakeconstructiononline.com/id69.html

[Tabasco]

You plans are very similar to my shop. Mine is 30 x 60, 12 foot side walls and two 10 x 10 doors. I wish I had gotten 12 wide doors, it would be much better when backing in a trailer. Mine came with a 36" man door, but I added another on the opposite corner at the back. When working with fuel, solvents and paints I feel better with another escape route.
4539

Mine is the 2 x 2 metal truss structure. I have the insulation installed between the frame and the sheeting with no condensation problem. The bottom of the trusses on mine are at 12 feet, they are 10 feet apart. If I add a lift I will just position it between the trusses. The pictures you showed have different trusses which should work better.

My shop is 12 years old and no problems. I also have another building of the same construction that is 30 x 40. It is 21 years old. I would do the same style again.

I'm not sure about wind loads or the building codes in your area, but mine work well in North Texas.

[NickP]

I am going to be closing in a couple of weeks on a new house (with any luck). There is room for a 30 x 60 shop, and before anyone says build bigger, this si bigger than I originally thought and is as big as I can get given the current property. I am looking at gogin with a steel building because they seem to be the best bang for the buck and I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with steel buildings the would like to share.My current plan is 30 x 60 with 14' side walls and a 3:12 pitch roof. 2 10 x 12 roll up doors and a single 36" man door. I thought about more doors but that does remove valuable wall space. I am planning on a vent on one end and a fan on the other for ventilation and the possibility of big ceiling fans added later. Basics will start with a 200 amp service and I will work on the electrical as time goes on. My first concern is the shell, anyone have a good company to call? Installation will be in Florida so wind loading is a factor.There seams to be two basic types, the "red Iron" building, which is like a commercial structure, and the 2x2 metal truss structure, which is a little less money but does not give the volume space in the roof area like a red iron building. Would love to hear what others have done.ThanksMikeHaving spent my last 8 years in the public sector as a QAM/SQE in Construction, specifically, PEMB (PreEngineered Metal Buildings) I have witnessed just about every trick of the trade. For starters and it's just my humble opinion, there are only a handful of PEMB companies out there that really make the grade. For me, a shop building is no different than a tool or a tool box. Some buy Snap On, some buy MAC and some buy Sears while many will buy Northern Tool, Lowes and finally, Harbor Freight. So, from the top down, material quality/gauge is the determining factor on the product. Your next criteria, erection or in the tool box industry, manufacturing/assembly. If a 150 lb party girl can't stand in the bottom drawer or, stand on the roof without a mishap, then that box isn't for you.For me, American Buildings Co. out of Eufaula, AL is a premier supplier that has solid connections for an erection crew if needed. The structure (product) will meet the criteria for the location but more importantly, CODE. As for Insulation; R10 is minimal. For me, regardless of blow through ventilation, the more you have (insulation) the more comfortable you will be and the more inclined you will be to, WANT TO WORK inside your shop. I suggest you consider R19 as a minimum and put it in the walls also. If you can afford R30, do it by all means - You will not regret it. No insulation in the roof and all you will have is a rain forest.If I can assist in any way, give me a shout - Good tools, deserve a great tool box. BTW, Build it as big as possible.JMHO

[Bihili]

What are the code requirements for your area?

[markm]

I have never spoke to anyone who did not wish they had went bigger on shop space.

[chevynut]

What are the code requirements for your area?

Are you asking fladiver64 to write a book? ;) :)

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

My only input is to place the large openings if possible towards the prevailing winds in your area to help ventilate the shop in summer. If this is not possible add windows on the sides and let the breeze blow thru cross ways. Being in Florida your not going to have much of a heating issue mostly a cooling issue. Also if you can afford having an open air covered area as part of your plan works great in the summer months. A closed shop and no air here in Texas in the summer is no fun. We usually close up shop and had to the nearest lake.

[Fladiver64]

What are the code requirements for your area?

bill the only major code requirement I have is a 130 mph wind loading. Being in FL , even the county government is smart enough not to have a snow load requirement. This is not to say there aren't any other code requirements, that is the one that some building manufacturers can't meet.

[Fladiver64]

Ok here are the preliminary drawings and specifications for the shop. I am thinking of a couple of changes, one is reducing the height of the building to 12 or 14' side walls. I am not sure I need the extra height even with a lift int he shop and I don't want the shop that much taller than the house. Changing the roll up doors to 12' wide, thanks Tabasco, great suggestion. Nick I have included the specification sheet, let me know if anything stands out.

I am debating the location of the second roll up door, if I want it in the second bay or the side of the first bay? I don't want to add a third roll up door as I think it will take away too much valuable wall space.

At this price plus installation and concrete I am right at my budget of $35K, and still need electrical and lights. I have found cheaper but there is a big sacrifice in quality so may just have to save a bit more. LOL There are always more http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4590&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4591&stc=1projects that the bank account allows.

[NickP]

What's the roof pitch? Drawing looks like 1/12. If you can opt for 4" in walls and 6" in roof I'd suggest that. 3" is pretty minimal. Do a layout of the floor plan and any and all equipment, benches ect. then determine where the second door needs to go. What gauge and size are the purlins and girts? 8" I would hope. A 12' OHD is a splendid idea.

[Fladiver64]

Nick,

Girts are min 8" 12 ga, but could be 10 or 12 depending on the final design and wind loading. I can add more insulation on the inside after construction if installed is not good enough. This is 3" with a radiant barrier installed. I have the radiant barrier with no insulation in my current garage and it is usable so I think this should be a step up.

I had asked for a 3:12 roof pitch, but you are right the drawing looks like 1:12

My issue with laying everything out first is that I am not sure what all is going in here over time as I am moving from a two car garage 22 x 20.

[NickP]

I had, and have had much the same issue over the years on floor plans. My old shop in De Queen underwent three iterations, the shop in Forney - 4 and back here in De Queen, 5. My shop here is overall 40x60 but being it was built prior to me moving back here, its layout was not real efficient. I have, in the last year changed its structure a bit but am still limited just by the nature of the beast.I suspect the Girts and Purlins will be 10 ga. to meet the 140 mph code. What color is your roof? If like most companies, they should have a reflective white that meets the energy code and will offer a little extra relief along with the 3" insulation. If you can, depending upon the roof structure/design, go to 4" or even 6". It's better to do it now rather than trying to add later. It's far less expensive now and way less problematic overall. 3" in the walls, depending on surrounding structures or trees will be ok however I always used a minimum of 4" in Texas.It's all a matter of what comfort level you can endure. Your present day garage, is it a PEMB or stick, brick and mortar? Makes a difference.

[chevynut]

Definitely go with 12 foot wide doors and at least 8 feet tall (looks like they're taller). On my new shop I wanted a double door and I went with 18 foot wide instead of the standard 16 foot, and I'm sure glad I did. If I ever build another house the garage is going to have an 18 foot door. If I was you I'd at least lay out your lift and your work benches/tables, and even your air lines and compressor. At 30 feet wide you won't be able to get two cars in lengthwise, but you will the other direction. So the placement and orientation of your lift will be important, and it will take up a lot of space. Also consider where your man-door will be. I like to walk directly into the work area, not through a bunch of stuff to get to the work area. Then figure out your storage space.

[Fladiver64]

Well after a visit to the county and another site visit I have had to change the layout of the building. Turns out the easement at the back of my property is platted as a road so the setback is 25' so that pushed the building too close to the house. So my plan is to shorten the building to 55' long and 30 ' wide, then after the final inspection pour a 30' x 25' "parking pad out side the roll up doors. I don't need a permit to pour concrete if it does not have a roof over it. My plan is to get a 4 post lift with casters so I could take the lift outside to do thinks like pressure wash the bottom of cars.

The man door is on the end of the building closest to the house. My plan is to install pallet racking over the workbench areas to create overhead storage, I can get that used fairly inexpensively and it will hold almost anything you can put on it. I am sure this will continue to evolve and change as time goes by and I hear more suggestions but here is the first shot.http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4606&stc=1

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

exciting times ahead. :cool:

[Fladiver64]

Well tomorrow I get one step closer, we are closing on the house that we are building the shop at. Then next week I should be selling the house that is going to fund the shop purchase.

[chevynut]

Yahoo! Are you still on schedule for mid October?

[Fladiver64]

Yes and possibly a bit earlier, but construction has a way of changing your schedule.

[Fladiver64]

Well progress is being made, sold one house, closed on another to build the shop at and signed the contract for the building. Drawings are coming in about 3 weeks and then about 6 weeks to delivery the building.

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

sounds like everything is working out, that's great. :cool: .......... new house, new baby. :eek:

[Fladiver64]

One step closer, plans finally finished and submitted for permit today, County said about 5 days for review and then see what I need to fix.

[NickP]

Well progress is being made, sold one house, closed on another to build the shop at and signed the contract for the building. Drawings are coming in about 3 weeks and then about 6 weeks to delivery the building.What manufacturer did you decide upon?

[Fladiver64]

Got my permit today and then found out the contractor I choose for erection of the building in on an out of state job for 7 weeks. Just my luck, so now building will go up Nov 16th. Still gives me plenty of time to get concrete finished before then.

Nick, I went with Outback Buildings, mostly because they had a local rep and a compete team that was local which made construction easier. I also go to go look at several buildings they have done here that have been up for 10 years and they still look great. All of their steel is galvanized which makes a big difference here in the land of humidity. For me it was the bet compromise of quality, cost and utility.

[chevynut]

Fladiver, does that change the schedule for your C4 project? I'm trying to work something out to help transport your frame for you.

[Fladiver64]

I am flexible on the frame, if I end up with it early then I can figure out how to store it in my current garage. If waiting a bit makes things work out better than that will work for me too.

[Fladiver64]

Finally breaking ground! Pad getting formed and concrete scheduled for Tuesdayhttp://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5084&stc=1

[WagonCrazy]

We want progress pics! We're pretty excited to see someone else building a shop for their hobby. Most of us can't do that, so we envy you being able to start from a clean slate and BUILD! Post more pics as you make progress please. :)

[Geoff]

Yes, please post photos of the progress.

[Fladiver64]

Sorry for the non updates, I was in Germany working on NCL's new ship Escape, cruising in the North Sea 40 degrees and 40 http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5185&stc=1mph winds is not the Caribbean! Anyways the slab was poured while I was gone and it looks great, flat and smooth. Next iw waiting until the building is delivered which is not until Nov 16th. Then they should put the whole building up in about 5 days.

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

looks like a good start.

[markm]

The three Okies who put my last 30x50 up did it in a day and half, including building trusses on site. It took me most of this summer to add a 20x50 lean too on the west side. If the slab is done first you must be building a steel framed building.

[Fladiver64]

Yes all steel building, stick build in Florida with termites and Hurricane codes isn't practical, and block construction was too expensive for me.

[markm]

Around here probably 90% are wooden pole barns. I know of several including one of mine 30-40 years old doing fine. No doubt all steel is better.

[Fladiver64]

I think construction materials and methods are based on the location, and they all have there uses, I just picked what I thought was the best for my situation.

[NickP]

Anchor Bolts? Depression for overhead doors? Man door depression? I bet they are there, just hard to see.

[Fladiver64]

Anchor Bolts? Depression for overhead doors? Man door depression? I bet they are there, just hard to see.

Anchor bolts for this building are drilled and installed with the structure, not poured in the concrete. That is specified with the building engineering, my understanding is that there is an epoxy as well as the mechanical wedge for the bolts. There is not any depressions for the man door or roll ups, we will have a lip from the "driveway and sidewalk" that reduces water intrusion.

[Fladiver64]

Construction finally under way! Most of frame up at end of day one. Should be finished in about three more days. I have been shooting the construction in time lapse with a picture every 30 seconds, fun to see building put up in a minutehttp://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5265&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5266&stc=1.

[WagonCrazy]

Go man, Go! Progress pics are great. Keep 'em coming. 8-)

[Fladiver64]

Just got the building final inspection so time to start filling it up!http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5282&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5283&stc=1

[markm]

I think I would string the electrical first. Nice looking building is it insulated already.

[Fladiver64]

Yes electrical and lighting is next, followed by storage racks, air compressor lines, work benches, and on and on. The insulation is between the exterior panels and the framing, it is a foil sided foam core.

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

nice, exciting times ahead. :cool:

[Fladiver64]

Well a long weekend, 350' of 36" trench dug for power, data and water lines, there was more than just for the shop but if I am renting a trencher then I was going to do all the trenching I needed. 3" conduit and 4/0 cable laid from the power drop to the new shop, boy is that stuff a pain to pull. I got my panel mounted in the shop so next step is connecting both ends. I still need to run a 1" data conduit and all of my water lines but time to go back to work to pay for all of this great stuff.

[chevynut]

Sounds like great progress, and you're going to be done in no time with the hard stuff. I didn't run water to my shop because I didn't feel I needed it and my septic system is on the opposite side of the house. I didn't want to put in another septic tank and leach field. My house is only about 100 feet from the shop so it's not a big deal. Water would be handy, though. How are you finishing the interior off?

[Fladiver64]

I am going to leave the interior raw for the most part, insulation is between the panels and framing so not sure dry wall is going to help much. I do have some plans for pallet racking along the back wall and stations for metal equipment, welders and table saw. I am starting with two rows of 8 fixtures for basic lighting, they are LED bulbs in a florescent fixture, we will see how that works and then I plan on adding additional lighting as the shop forms up for more task oriented lighting.

I ran water basically to put my water treatment in the building, I use and Iron filter on the well and I am connecting to city water so I will put the water softener on that. Keeping the equipment indoors makes it last much longer. I am thinking of just putting in a sink and a single line drain field for a sink near the shop because I have the same problem is the septic is a long way away, and the house is closed enough to use the bathroom.

Everything always take longer that you expect, I thought I could get lights up in the shop this weekend, but I didn't even get power up and running. I do have to admit I took some of Sunday off so I could take the 27 to a local car show with my son Zack, but sometimes having fun with the kids is just too important.

[Fladiver64]

Well I got my panel and one outlet wired up in the shop this week. I have also started hanging lights I am using these led tubes http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/t818w1200bixxdf50f1.htm they are brighter than the T8 lights I have and I like the white color. My wife and kids got a sign for the shop for http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5349&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5350&stc=1my birthday. They have started calling the shop my "Toy Box" , not far from the truth.

[chevynut]

Looking good!

[Fladiver64]

Tow more progress pictures, filling up fast as empty tow other garages and a storage unit full of stuff. One day I can start working on cars again:Dhttp://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5403&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5404&stc=1 LOL

[chevynut]

Hole cow! I thought mine filled up fast! :)

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

There never big enough lol....

[NickP]

My shop in Forney was almost 3000 sft and I never had enough room. In 8 years there, we reconfigured it six times, each time, moving every piece of equipment. The last reconfigure, number nine, was to empty it and move to Arkansas. 16 trailer loads. Now, I have the same space and have reconfigured three times. Soon, it will be empty again and I'll build a slot car track in it.

[chevynut]

Soon, it will be empty again and I'll build a slot car track in it.

What? :eek:

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

My shop in Forney was almost 3000 sft and I never had enough room. In 8 years there, we reconfigured it six times, each time, moving every piece of equipment. The last reconfigure, number nine, was to empty it and move to Arkansas. 16 trailer loads. Now, I have the same space and have reconfigured three times. Soon, it will be empty again and I'll build a slot car track in it.

Come on Nick slot cars are out dated just like the SBC. They have slotless tracks now days you get and Iphone app to control your car. All out racing lol....

[Fladiver64]

I have already added a 10 x 18 leanto on the side to store lawn and garden equipment. Yes it could have been bigger but then I would not have any money left to build cars, guess I just have to win the power ball tonight. Maybe I will even buy a ticket.

[Fladiver64]

Yesterday would have been my fathers 74th birthday, first one without him, turned out to be a tougher day than I anticipated. I had made an urn for his ashes out of a 59 Hemi Valve cover and mounted it on a cherry backing, then had a pinstriper write the details and add some embellishment. I decided yesterday would be the day to hang this in the shop, as the garage is where we spent a lot of time together. http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5432&stc=1

[NickP]

What? :eek:


LOL, just checking to see if anyone is awake. ;)

[NickP]

I have already added a 10 x 18 leanto on the side to store lawn and garden equipment. Yes it could have been bigger but then I would not have any money left to build cars, guess I just have to win the power ball tonight. Maybe I will even buy a ticket.

I did much the same and moved the compressor to it to keep the noise down in the shop so I could sleep better. A man has to have a nap now and again.