Ideas for routing emergency brake cable to C4 rear eBrakes

[WagonCrazy]

I have one of CNut's C4 frames, with the Corvette Dana 44 rear end. I need to figure out how the eBrake cables should be configured to work with a single line eBrake cable coming from under the dash.

Anyone built a custom frame or body mount for routing/attaching the cable?
Anyone figured out how to hook up the 2 rear eBrake cables?

Pics would be great for inspiration....

[Rick_L]

I don't know what problems the C4 conversion offers, probably few with regard to my solution, but what you need is a sheathed cable setup as opposed to an open plain cable setup that is stock on a 55-57. This is what even some 60s model Chevys have, an example is my 67 Nova.

What this will do is eliminate "line of sight" cable routing. The other thing it will do is allow you to choose where the cable run goes from a single cable from the actuator to the two cables to run to each e-brake at the wheel. Using sheathed cables means you can route them pretty much anywhere as long as you don't have tight bends.

The other half of this setup is you have to pay attention to stroke and force requirements because you lose the mechanical advantage of the lever arm that's in the stock linkage - the one that's under the driveshaft. You have two choices here - either provide your own lever arm with a similar geometry to the stock one, or use an e-brake actuator that has more mechanical advantage than the stock one. An e-brake foot pedal from Lokar will work well, as will a hand operated lever. The Lokar stuff is nice and looks good, but you can also use either a foot pedal setup or a lever setup from another car.

I would suggest Lokar cables for this even if you don't use their actuator, because of their versatility and ease of terminating. They are not dirt cheap, but they are not outrageously expensive.

The Lokar foot pedal setup is pretty easy to install also.

[WagonCrazy]

Thanks for your comments Rick. I ordered a foot operated Lokar eBrake and it's sheathed cable. Also ordered some C clip style cable connectors and a few other parts for bringing the 2 ebrake cables (in the rear) together so they can be pulled in unison.
More to come including pics when I get this all fabbed up.

Got to take a day off this weekend for the big Cruisin' for a Cure one-day show in Costa Mesa on Saturday. Taking the 9 passenger wagon there and hanging out with a bunch of other tri-5 guys. Something like 3000 cars will show up.

Then it's back to the Nomad build. Weather got hot again...back up to 104 tomorrow. :(

[Rick_L]

3000 cars?

104 degrees in Socal? Wow

[chevynut]

Paul, I thought we went through this when you helped me with my rear brake hoses earlier this year?

I used the Lokar foot e-brake with Lokar cables. I mounted the bracket on top of my frame under the seat area. The front cable goes through the original hole, and down the top of the frame. The rear cables go down the frame and the driver's side one goes under the hump, and to the caliper. The passenger side one clamps to the vertical portion of the floor. Both are connected to the caliper with Lokar clips made for a C4 Corvette.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5006&stc=1

[WagonCrazy]

Both are connected to the caliper with Lokar clips made for a C4 Corvette.

That's the part I'm unclear on. Do you have a part #? At this point I have stock cables coming from each caliper. Each are about 2 feet long. Don't see how i'm supposed to use those...or if I replace them completely for an aftermarket set of rear eBrake cables?

[chevynut]

Paul you replace the entire cable. Here's the prior thread:

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/3736-The-final-teardown-begins/page3?highlight=e-brake

Here's the parts I used...I'd check eBay and Summit Racing:

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-pgs/ebrake-cables.html
http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-pgs/rearbrake-clevis-kits.html

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/rearbrake-clevis-kits/clevis.png

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/universal-ebrake-cables/universalbrakecables_ss2.png

[WagonCrazy]

Laszlo.
I'm using the Lokar cable setup from the Lokar footbrake, all the way to the C4 rear calipers.
I'm routing it down the outward side of the frame (on the drivers side).
Both rear cables (from driver and passenger rear C4 calipers) will route to the outside of the Drivers Side frame rail and meet up with the cable coming from the footpedal ABOUT 18 inches fore of the rear wheelwell. I'm going to mount those cable connector points on the outside of the frame rail (not on top as your pic above shows). That way I can get to them easier for adjustment, maintenance, etc.

With all of that said, I'm having a difficult time routing the rear passenger cable "across the underside" so that it looks good. There has to be a few curves there and I don't want to mount the cable sheeth to the underside of the floorpan. I want to mount the cable/sheath to either the frame or Dana rear end (which is solid mounted...doesn't move with suspension travel). Mounting it to the frame allows me to lift the body easily (still in that mode of having to lift it frequently for other things I'm still fabricating).

Where/how did you route and mount the passenger side, rear brake cable coming across to the driver side frame rail? Got any pics for inspiration?

[chevynut]

Paul, I mounted the cables to the body. I think going over the differential batwing is going to be too sharp of a bend. Sorry, I don't have any pics of mine from the last mockup. I just made a smooth curve from the e-brake lever on the knuckle, between the dogbones, and to the underside of the body. Seems like it fit pretty good.

[WagonCrazy]

So I ended up routing the passenger cable up over the differential, and along the backside of the body sheetmetal (vertical portion of where the rear seat base sits). That seemed like the best way to get it over to the drivers side frame rail, without seeing much of it from looking under the car from the rear.

So both drivers and passenger cable come together on the outside of the drivers side frame rail, and attach to the foot operated lokar eBrake cable just about under the front driver seat...

5686

I haven't tightened up the cables or cut the cable ends down just yet, but will get to that soon enough.

For now, the eBrake cable system is FUNCTIONAL. Check that one off my long list of things to do on this Nomad build...:)

[chevynut]

Looks like you did it almost exactly how I did it except on the side of the frame instead of the top of it. Glad to hear it works!

[WagonCrazy]

I was concerned about access to adjust it all if I placed it on top, once the body went back down. It's tight in there. You have a nut and allen head screws to tighten. So putting it on the side seemed easier from a maintainance and adjustment standpoint.

[chevynut]

On the side is definitely easier, but I wanted it out of sight. Hope I can still get to it for adjustment. I think with the right wrenches it shouldn't be a problem. ;)

[WagonCrazy]

5698

[Custer55]

Paul you replace the entire cable. Here's the prior thread:

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/3736-The-final-teardown-begins/page3?highlight=e-brake

Here's the parts I used...I'd check eBay and Summit Racing:

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-pgs/ebrake-cables.html
http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-pgs/rearbrake-clevis-kits.html

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/rearbrake-clevis-kits/clevis.png

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/ebrake-cables-conn-cables/ebrake-cable-images/universal-ebrake-cables/universalbrakecables_ss2.png

I am getting ready to order the lokar universal parking brake cable kit and I have a question on which clevises I need to order for my parking brakes.
Lokar lists the Wilwood style clevis as the one I need for 88 to 96 Corvettes. My 90 Corvette rear caliper looks like it needs the 84 to 87 Corvette style clevis.
Here is what my stock caliper and parking brake set up looks like.
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5868&stc=1 http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5869&stc=1 http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5870&stc=1
Any advice will be appreciated.
Brian

[chevynut]

Brian, I'm not following you. Lokar just calls it a "Corvette Clevis" and I don't see a different one for 84-87 and 88-96. Please explain. I bought their Corvette Clevis and it seems to fit fine. I can get some pics if you want.

[chevynut]

I just checked and I'm mistaken. I did get the EC-80WC clevis kit. I'm not sure how the 84-87 Corvette Clevis kit EC-80CC is different.

[Custer55]

The EC-80CC is what they list is for 84 to 87 Corvettes. I think it is the Corvette Clevis in the picture above based on what Speedway and others are selling. How did you attach the EC-80WC to your parking brake? Do yours look like mine?
Thanks, Brian

[chevynut]

The EC-80CC is what they list is for 84 to 87 Corvettes. I think it is the Corvette Clevis in the picture above based on what Speedway and others are selling. How did you attach the EC-80WC to your parking brake? Do yours look like mine?
Thanks, Brian

It turns out I didn't even take them out of the package, I just looked at them and they look like they'd work. I thought I'd hooked them up but apparently I just put the cables and sheaths together. The clevis should just slip over the lever. I don't know why the 80CC wouldn't work unless the hole is too small to fit over the late lever. I have both early and late rearends here so I could see what's different about them.

[Custer55]

I guess the wildwood style will work by hooking the clevis pin over the bracket. I'll probably just order those since there about $10. cheaper too. Could always modify the bracket to make them work if needed.
Thanks for the input.
Brian :p

[chevynut]

I actually like the corvette ones better because they're cleaner looking. I'll post pics of both levers if I get a chance. I wonder why there are two different parts for them.

[55 Rescue Dog]

The simplest parking brake is, the one I used on my Camaro. Made by JAMAR. It's a hydraulic park lock. I plumbed it inline to the front brakes, so I can lock all 4 wheels in gear, plus does great burnouts. I have f/r brake pressure gauges, rear regulator, and a balance bar with wildwood reverse mount pedals, all under the dash. Anyway, you just apply like 4-500 pounds of brake pressure, and push in the knob to lock on brake pressure. To release, you just apply the same pressure to the pedal, and the spring loaded knob pops right out. Although not technically a parking brake, it actually works much better, as long as you have a good leak free brake system. And, like I said, all 4 wheels are locked in park. I think it cost only like $65. I think it was originally designed for fork trucks, etc.

[chevynut]

Although not technically a parking brake, it actually works much better, as long as you have a good leak free brake system. And, like I said, all 4 wheels are locked in park.

Unfortunately, it's also a violation of federal vehicle safety laws....

(c) Vehicles not subject to FMVSS Nos. 105 and 121 on the date of manufacture.
(1) Each singly driven motor vehicle not subject to parking brake requirements of FMVSS Nos. 105 or 121 at the time of manufacturer, and every combination of motor vehicles must be equipped with a parking brake system adequate to hold the vehicle or combination on any grade on which it is operated, under any condition of loading in which it is found on a public road (free of ice and snow).
(2) The parking brake system shall, at all times, be capable of being applied by either the driver's muscular effort or by spring action. If other energy is used to apply the parking brake, there must be an accumulation of that energy isolated from any common source and used exclusively for the operation of the parking brake.
Exception: This paragraph shall not be applicable to air-applied, mechanically-held parking brake systems which meet the parking brake requirements of FMVSS No. 121 (S5.6).
(3) The parking brake system shall be held in the applied position by energy other than fluid pressure, air pressure, or electric energy. The parking brake system shall not be capable of being released unless adequate energy is available to immediately reapply the parking brake with the required effectiveness.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Legal, or not, it still works great for a "parking brake". Better than nothing, or in the case of a lot of older cars, and trucks on the road, they don't work anyway.
There are more, and more new cars, that are using a electrically operated parking brake, that can't stop the car either. If you lose brake hydraulic pressure, there are many parking brakes, that are going to "save the day" anyway.
The set-up I used, I can lock the front brakes hard enough to slide under power. The parking brake on my C5 is so bad at the moment, the car will roll on level ground. It helps not having inspections, of course.

[chevynut]

Legal, or not, it still works great for a "parking brake".

I prefer to build a car that meets the requirements of the law, local or federal. Seems like a smart thing to do. That's why most of us are using the original C4 e-brake setup at the wheels.

If you notice, this thread is about how to route cables for a C4 rear e-brake, not to justify a jury-rigged illegal hydraulic park-brake system or an improperly adjusted or maintained e-brake that doesn't work.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Brakes being more important, where did you find DOT approved AN brake lines, and fittings?

[Bluegrass Trifive]

Brakes being more important, where did you find DOT approved AN brake lines, and fittings? Actually several companies sell them. I know for sure both Jegs and Wilwood have products that meet the DOT requirements for stainless brake lines.

[chevynut]

The best e-brake/park brake setup is totally independent of the car's braking system and conforms to all legal vehicle safety requirements.

If you want to know where to get DOT brake lines and fittings, start a new thread and ask.

[markm]

"on the date of manufacture"

I believe that was about 60 years ago.

[55 Rescue Dog]

The best e-brake/park brake setup is totally independent of the car's braking system and conforms to all legal vehicle safety requirements.

If you want to know where to get DOT brake lines and fittings, start a new thread and ask.
The parking brake is on the bottom of my list of ways to make a Tri 5 even close, or better to anything resembling modern DOT safety standards. Even stock wheels are not even close, lacking a safety bead, and the list goes on. There is not much safety you can put into any older car, which is why I sadly gave up on my 1930 Ford.

[NickP]

LOL, y'all are going to have to slow down a bit, I'm running out of popcorn and soda trying to keep up with this 3rd grade school yard crap.

[chevynut]

LOL, y'all are going to have to slow down a bit, I'm running out of popcorn and soda trying to keep up with this 3rd grade school yard crap.

Isn't that the truth. ;)

[Custer55]

Back to the original topic :D Here is what I came up with to hook the Lokar cables to the calipers.
I ordered the clevis kit that Lokar specifies for 88 and up Corvettes (80wc) which I guess would work ok but I just didn't like how they hooked up.
http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5892&stc=1 http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5893&stc=1
The clevis and pin hook over the e-brake lever just fine with out the cable attached. But with the cable in the clevis the cable end contacts the back side of the lever so the cable gets cocked in the clevis. I didn't want to grind down the cable end as I wasn't sure how that would affect how well the ball end is attached to the cable. I tried filing the bracket a bit but whatever the e-brake lever arms are made out of is super hard (my Dremmel with a carbide cutter would barely do anything to it) so modifying the arms is a no go.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5894&stc=1
So I just made my own clevis from 11 gauge steel to more or less duplicate the end of the stock cable. It was a real pain to make it and I need to make a second one, but I didn't want to spend $32. or more for the 84 to 87 Vette style clevis not knowing if they would be any better or not.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5895&stc=1
Here is my clevis in place on the caliper. Looks like the cable spring will need to be shortened, or maybe just left out.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5896&stc=1
From the top view you can see how the Lokar cable is attached. I think this will work ok.
Brian

[chevynut]

Funny, I was going to suggest making your own clevis but for as cheap as they are I thought...naw, it's just not worth the time. ;)

Are you saying the clevis they sell isn't long enough causing the ball at the end of the cable to contact the lever?

I still haven't looked at the difference between the early and late levers. Looks to me like either the Corvette clevis or Ford clevis should work, based on the pics they have of them. To be honest I ordered the part number they specified, and expected to get the "Corvette" clevis they show, not the Wilwood type.

[Custer55]

Funny, I was going to suggest making your own clevis but for as cheap as they are I thought...naw, it's just not worth the time. ;)

Are you saying the clevis they sell isn't long enough causing the ball at the end of the cable to contact the lever?

I still haven't looked at the difference between the early and late levers. Looks to me like either the Corvette clevis or Ford clevis should work, based on the pics they have of them. To be honest I ordered the part number they specified, and expected to get the "Corvette" clevis they show, not the Wilwood type.

Yep, the end of the cable hits the backside of the lever. It actually has to go in crooked to get the clevis pin to go in. I assume it must work ok with the Wilwood caliper but it's a bad compromise for the late Corvette based on my experience. I should have just made my own to begin with but I didn't think a company like Lokar would sell a part that works so poorly.
Brian

[chevynut]

I sent an e-mail to Lokar to ask them why the 84-87 Corvette clevis won't work on the later C4s. I asked for opening size on both the Corvette and Ford versions. Also told them that the Wilwood clevis doesn't work correctly.

[chevynut]

Here's the response from Lokar regarding the fitment of the 80WC and slot sizes:

"The clevis should not be to short, the end sticking out past the ball may do too long and can be trimmed down just do not get any closer than .010 to the ball. The other clevises are .350 on the 80cc, and .475 on the 81FC. If you have any more questions let me know."

I asked about the slot width on the other clevises and got this:

"... the width on both is .250 ."

I just measured the opening in the e-brake cable on a late suspension and it's .250"x.350". So it sure seems like the 80CC should work on the late C4 suspensions.

[Custer55]

The 80cc clevis should work fine on the 88 - 96 then, I made my slots 1/4" x 3/8". It would have helped to know you can shorten the cable end, nothing in the cable instructions that said that and no instructions at all with the 80wc clevis. I'll see if I can return the 80wc clevises since the ones I made will work just fine. I don't understand why they would spec the 80wc for 88 -96 Corvette???
Brian

[chevynut]

I don't understand why they would spec the 80wc for 88 -96 Corvette???

I don't either. I asked them that question with my last e-mail, and haven't heard a reply yet. Maybe someone screwed up on their part number list, because the 80CC should work just fine.

[Custer55]

Just thought of this. The factory cable has a bevel in the opening on the end opposite the cable. When I made my own clevis I had to duplicate that bevel to get it to go over the parking brake lever.
Brian

[chevynut]

Here's what I got back from Lokar:

"It is in our catalog wrong if you have the brakes with the hook you will use the CC clevis. If you have one with a hole in it you will use the WC clevis. Sorry for the confusion if you have any more question Let me know. There was a few years that needed the Pin and then GM went back to the hook type later."

So maybe the C3 Corvettes used the pin.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I don't care if my Hydraulic park lock is not "legal". It is so stupid simple, and cheap, and works freaking way better as a "parking brake", than most legal mechanical brakes I have ever used. I'm just parking it for a bit, not leaving it in place forever.
On my next build, I am also going to incorporate a hand operated hydraulic "emengency/drifting" brake to the rear!!!
If the brake pedal falls off, it will still work. I actually had that happen on my Ford 1930 model A, which definitely needed something hydraulic, instead of mechanical for brakes! It's was legal though. There has probably been millions of cars with automatic transmissions, that never had the parking brake engaged. Any car with a single piston brake system should definitely have an emergency brake though.

[markm]

"There has probably been millions of cars with automatic transmissions, that never had the parking brake engaged."

I personally have owned a few of those. My folks Caddy has an electric one that the only time it has ever been used is when it was recalled.

[chevynut]

There have probably been a million cars with airbags that have never had them deploy. ;)

It seems like you guys are missing the point. As far as I can tell Federal and many local laws require that a car has a WORKING parking brake that is independent of the car's hydraulic braking system. In fact, some laws say it MUST be mechanical based on my research. If your car went through a safety inspection without it (possibly a roadside inspection), it might fail and be impounded. Will it ever happen? Maybe not, but I don't want to be trying to add an e-brake after the car is finished.

[55 Rescue Dog]

At 100mph, I would focus more design ideas on safety, and crash protection improvements, over parking brakes, legal, or not, which would be another thread for sure. But, nobody would want to think about that. Even seat belts are not required on a Tri-5, but a Simpson 5 point is not DOT legal.
From 49 years ago. http://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/thedigs/2016/03/23/misadventure-on-the-fort-pitt-bridge/