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WagonCrazy
08-02-2015, 09:20 PM
Anyone own or use the Mastercool 71550 AC Hose/Fitting crimp too?
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I have found this set online for $138 delivered to my door, and it seems like a good value.

I'm about to have 15 fittings crimped up for my Nomad AC system...
By the time I pay my local NAPA to do that, I could have bought the tool and have it around forever...

Anybody else have experience crimping up their own AC and heater line fittings?

NickP
08-03-2015, 06:49 AM
I don't have that unit but I do have their master kit for flaring - Five years of use and not a hitch. Their products are great.

chevynut
08-03-2015, 07:44 AM
Paul, are you crimping the heater hoses too or are you using the interior hardlines supplied by VA?

WagonCrazy
08-03-2015, 02:00 PM
For my system, I'm NOT using the hard lines VA supplies. They come thru the firewall in the wrong place. So I'm cutting a hole in the upper corner of the firewall, behind the hood hinge, and routing the 4 lines thru there.

So I'm using crimplock fittings for both AC and heater lines.
Here's how i've routed it thru the inner fender
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But I'm going to use the heat shrink tube for the 2 lines where they connect to the water pump.
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chevynut
08-03-2015, 07:55 PM
Paul, looks good. A 57 is a bit different so your routing makes sense.

Did you know they made bulkhead A/C hose fittings? They eliminate one o-ring at each penetration. I actually have another set of penetrations more than you do but I may have fewer o-rings.

I went with Aeroquip A/C hose and fittings under the hood, and kept them down low. I used them for heater lines too with an adapter.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4739&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4743&stc=1

On the inner fender I used bulkhead fittings which allowed me to use only one o-ring per hose. Then I went up through my fender protector splash shield to more bulkhead fittings. I used bulkhead fittings wherever I could to eliminate joints.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4740&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4741&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4742&stc=1

At the firewall I have a Billet Specialties bulkhead (waste of money...doesn't even show :eek:) but I think I should have used bulkhead fittings there too. Inside, I'm using A/C hose for the suction (-10) and liquid (-6) lines. My old evaporator had beaded lines for a heater hose, but this Gen IV has -10 male threaded ports.

I am currently gathering up the parts to make my interior lines and looked at the -10 fittings they had in stock today at the Parker Store. The -10 fittings they carry have an awfully small ID so I'm going with the same fittings I used had before. It's a true 5/8" A/C fitting that I cut off. The guy is going to crimp a brass collar on them for me when I get the hoses cut to length. I'm using heater hose, not A/C hose inside. The pic below is from the old A/C unit.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4744&stc=1


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4745&stc=1

Where are you putting your water valve? I don't think it will fit behind the firewall like the old one did.

WagonCrazy
08-04-2015, 09:12 AM
Word to the wise for the rest of you...if you go "custom" on your installation, you'll spend nearly as much for your fittings, bulkhead connector(s), AC hose, and all the misc things needed...as you spent on the VA system. :eek:


Where are you putting your water valve?

Inside the inner fender area, on top of the wheel well. I plan on fabbing some sheetmetal "covers" to hide everything in the inner fender from view. Probably put some dzeus fittings or something there to get easy access for maintenance needs.

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I've cut elongated holes in both the inner fender and the firewall, and are routing hose thru both. So the connections to the VA box are crimp style hose, then it winds thru the firewall, lays across the top of the inner fender (next to the large vent ducts), then thru thru a hole in the inner fender and to the bulkhead connector where the stock battery tray would have sat.

To soften the sheetmetal edges where I cut the inner fender and firewall, I used some crimp/compression style edging (don't know what to call the stuff) i got at a swapmeet a few years ago. Looked like it was for an automotive use,and bought a few feet of it thinking it might come in handy somewhere on this build.

I just need to tightly seal the 4 hoses where they pass thru the firewall, to keep smoke, dust and water out. Didn't want to use the VA grommets, as it's too tight to pass the hose and fitting thru. Figured I'd just cut one hole and route it all thru there cleanly.

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chevynut
08-04-2015, 10:39 AM
Word to the wise for the rest of you...if you go "custom" on your installation, you'll spend nearly as much for your fittings, bulkhead connector(s), AC hose, and all the misc things needed...as you spent on the VA system. :eek:


Good ideas Paul on making the big hole in the fenderwell. I probably would have used a bulkhead fitting at the firewall to avoid the big hole but it looks like you minimized the connections.

Yes it does add up fast. Yesterday I bought two -10 A/C fittings, 12" of -10 A/C hose, two -6 A/C fittings, 12" of -6 A/C hose, and 24" of heater hose.... $84. I still have to get the other two fittings to cut down for the heater hoses inside the car then get everything crimped.

I don't remember how much I spent on the rest of the hoses and fittings. :cry: Hose ends are anywhere from $10-16 each and A/C hose is $8-10 a foot. Heater hose is cheap. I don't think it was anywhere near what the VA evaporator cost. ;)

Is there an "in" and "out" on the heater core? I know the valve goes on the inlet side but I don't think the core itself is directional. Looks like I'll have to put the valve on top of my upper fenderwell somewhere.

chevynut
08-04-2015, 10:46 AM
Curious how many total o-rings you have in just your A/C lines including dryer, condenser and evaporator connections. I think I have 18 including the trinary switch. :eek:

WagonCrazy
08-04-2015, 09:34 PM
AC O-rings in my system:
#10- 4
#8- 4
#6- 8

chevynut
08-07-2015, 07:25 AM
Hey Paul, have you figured out how to size the Gates Powergrip shrink clamps? I have 5/8" ID heater hose with a beaded fitting pushed into it. Do you size it by the hose OD or by the OD where the bead is? Those things seem very inflexible and I don't know how much they shrink.

McMaster Carr says "Note: When choosing a clamp, measure the outside diameter of your hose with the fitting installed." They don't really say if that's at the bead area or if it's where you clamp it.

My hose is just under 15/16" OD but over 1" at the bead. I got 13/16-15/16" clamps but I don't they will slip over the bead area. I may have to go with the 15/16-1 1/16" clamps. I'm putting them at the ends of the interior heater hoses.

BTW, NAPA has better prices than anywhere I've found for them.


http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4752&stc=1



But I'm going to use the heat shrink tube for the 2 lines where they connect to the water pump.

WagonCrazy
08-07-2015, 10:05 AM
I bought the 15/16-1 1/16" clamps from Summit. Item# ems-ms106-58.

But I haven't installed it yet.

The LS water pump has a 3/4 outlet line, and a 5/8 inlet line. I bought 5/8 ID hose and will squeeze it over both, and use these seals.

You may need to go bigger than 13/16 - 15/16...to get it to fit over your inlet tube (including the bulge at the bead)

WagonCrazy
08-07-2015, 10:16 AM
By the way, I've now made the hole thru the firewall for the 4 hoses. Here's how it looks.

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Here's how it looks passing thru the inner fender.

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And the crimping tool showed up yesterday, so I crimped up the 4 hoses that mount to the evaporator box.

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Now the problem I'm faced with is that when I welded the mounting studs to the inner firewall, I think I positioned the evaporator box too far to the passenger side. I noticed that the center vent was off by 2 inches last time I had test mounted the unit under the dash. Now that I've put these hoses on, and routed them thru the hole in the firewall and pushed the unit up under there and hung it on the 2 mounting studs...I know it's too far to the passenger side. I have kinks in the 2 water heater hoses (they are thinner walled than the 2 AC hoses). So I'm going to re-thing the stock Vintage Air (crappy, flimsy, cheap, thin) mounting brackets and maybe come up with one that lets me free hang the unit from a top bracket, and then bolt it securely to a bottom bracket that I can get to once it's mounted in there.

Its too tight to get a socket way up high to tighten those 2 nuts. Bad design for having to ever remove it again...gonna re-think that now.

Always seems to be one step forward, one step back. Thats the nature of a custom built car. Never satisfied...:(

chevynut
08-07-2015, 10:26 AM
Its too tight to get a socket way up high to tighten those 2 nuts. Bad design for having to ever remove it again...gonna re-think that now.

I don't know if the 57 brackets are any different, but it's fairly easy to get to mine over the top of the blower assembly and the top of the box for the inner bracket. I did have to clearance the bracket to clear the heater hose. The kit had hard lines that cleared.

Fladiver64
08-07-2015, 02:11 PM
"Always seems to be one step forward, one step back. Thats the nature of a custom built car. Never satisfied...:("


You must be much better than me, I'm more like one forward, three back, spend twice as much, then start over.

I am taking notes on both of your installations, although I am a long way off, I do want to route the hoses through the fender well so there are great ideas here.

WagonCrazy
08-09-2015, 09:49 PM
Well I decided (after getting that evap unit moved over and mounted inside) that I'm not satisfied with the way the 2 heater hoses "kink" when passing thru the firewall hole.
It's just too tight a bend, and since the heater hose is not that thick to start with, it kinks easily.

4756

The #6 and #10 AC hoses are thicker, and they make the curve thru the hole without kinking, but those heater hoses are another story.
So i may go back a step and use the prebent aluminum hard lines that came with this Vintage Air kit, and shorten and re-bend them to exit as hard lines thru the firewall, then make the hose connections on the inner fender side with normal clamps (in stead of the crimped fittings I used).

Aargh...:eek:

chevynut
08-10-2015, 08:15 AM
Paul, I can sure understand why you're having that issue with the heater hoses. They're right up against the firewall inside, and making a 90 degree turn is a challenge. I think your hardline idea is going to give you a better solution. Did you notice how small the ID of those -10 fittings really is? That's partly why I decided not to use them, along with the guy at Parker telling me that heater hose wouldn't work well with the crimp fittings.

WagonCrazy
08-10-2015, 02:05 PM
found that I can get 12 inch straight lengths of 5/8 OD alum heater tubing from Summit. Made by Vintage Air, for making your own heater lines. Oring and nut on one end, and barb on the other end (for hose clamp)

Now I just need to find/borrow a 5/8 bender so I can bend it to fit thru the hole... all my benders only go to 3/8...

4757

WagonCrazy
08-10-2015, 02:10 PM
heater hose wouldn't work well with the crimp fittings

Wondered about that too early on, but there are beadlock fittings available for either AC hose OR heater hose. The ones I got for the heater hose are larger inside ID than the #10 AC fitting, made to work with the thinner heater hose.

I'm going to find out the hard way if the crimping tool I'm using doesn't adequately squish the fitting around the hose. Looking inside of the fitting, they have about 5 mini barbs around the outside of the aluminum tube. I think/hope/pray it will seal...:rolleyes:

WagonCrazy
08-10-2015, 02:15 PM
Did you notice how small the ID of those -10 fittings really is? That's partly why I decided not to use them

Initially I wondered about the mismatch in sizing to the LS water pump outlets (5/8 and 3/4 ID), but this is only recirculating hot water thru the evaporator case and back to the engine, so all I need is 1/2 ID worth of hot water and I'll have hot air blowing out the vents.
It's a "regional" concern at best. In the 8 years I've been driving my 9 passenger wagon around, I've used the AC hundreds of time on hot days, and can count on 1 hand the # of times I've turned on the heater on the coldest of days. Just don't get that kind of weather 'round here. Now you guys in the northern half of the country would probably use the heater more often...so maybe it's not enough volume of hot water to actually heat up your interior after running for 15 minutes or so?

Rick_L
08-10-2015, 03:48 PM
If you don't think the VA heater valve will shut off truly closed, you can put a ball valve or the like in the pressure hose that goes to the heater.

WagonCrazy
08-10-2015, 10:29 PM
I guess I've never had a problem thusfar with the heater valve NOT staying shut all the way. The valve that came with my Gen 4 system is servo driven (electric). The one in my 9 passenger wagon is cable driven. Never had a problem with them closing but I could see how that would heat up the cool air from the AC condensor if it did.

chevynut
08-11-2015, 12:49 PM
Wow, those Gates PowerGrip clamps sure are nice!!! Just finished building my heater hoses.

If anyone needs some of these go to NAPA. The ones I have say NAPA on them along with the Gates logo and they were under $3 each. They're $3.99 plus shipping at Jegs.

WagonCrazy
08-26-2015, 09:03 PM
I'm gonna keep keep this AC install thread here, instead of over in the Member Project Update forum, where I have a more complete description of the Nomad build going on. Since it' kind of reads like a book based on a guy who is plodding his way thru this for (really) the first time. :(

Update:
The 2 lengths of aluminum hardline from VA ended up not being the right way to do it. Besides the fact that they were about 4 inches long, I didn't have a 1/2 inch bender. "But Paul, I thought those were supposed to be 5/8 diameter hardlines?" Yeah...that's what I thought too...but when they showed up from Summit, they are in fact 1/2 inch diameter lines. Too small for hot water to travel thru...

So back to the drawing board. Ahaaa....How about I go to the local auto parts store, and just browse around for a "preformed" 5/8 rubber heater line, and then cut it to yield the 2 pieces I need to fit the 90 degree bends to go thru the firewall.

BINGO.

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Here's some mockup pics. Here's the actual hole in the firewall.

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In these next pics, the cardboard mimics' the hole in the firewall, so I could cut the 2 new heater hoses exactly, and get all 4 hoses oriented properly to fit thru the firewall.

484748484849

Next step is to mount the AC unit back under the dash, and route those hoses thru the firewall hole and continue with the crimping and hookup to the rest of the hose sections.

More pics to come when that's done.

All this for some cold air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chevynut
08-26-2015, 11:16 PM
Sounds like you're getting there.

BTW Paul, I forgot to mention that The Parker Store crimped my A/C hoses for free. :)

WagonCrazy
08-27-2015, 09:20 AM
BTW Paul, I forgot to mention that The Parker Store crimped my A/C hoses for free.

Of course Laszlo. You're in Colorado...so they took your hoses, went into the back, smoked a dube, crimped 'em, then brought 'em back up front and forgot to charge you because they had the munchies and were headed out for food. :)

Here in CA, we pay for EVERYTHING. Our local Napa store gets $6 per crimp. Not many other places around in Santa Clarita to do crimping. Now that I have the tool, I can do 'em myself (once in a lifetime!)

WagonCrazy
08-28-2015, 08:10 PM
Couple of days ago, I got a PM from a member BBPanel. He was nice enough to spot my Vintage Air (provided) "solenoid" heater valve and tell me that VA had stopped selling those a couple of years ago, in favor of a newer "servo activated" heater valve. Couple of clicks later, and Summit had one on it's way. Here's a pic of the old and the new.

4857

The solenoid apparently got hot, real hot when you had it in the open position. Apparently VA decided to change that going forward.

Any one want to buy my "vintage" hard-to-find solenoid heater valve now? :p

1oldmf
08-29-2015, 08:10 AM
here is where I get most of my fittings,
http://www.techchoiceparts.com/ac-fittings

and back to orig poster, I have the hyd crimper from mastercool,
it came with dies for std and barrier hose,
if your doing any quantity of hoses, its well worth the price, as all you do is squeeze the lever
to crimp, instead of tightening a bolt,
I try to use O ring fittings where ever possible, as they seal better.( at least for me)
I've done hundreds of hoses using this crimper, with no leakage issues,

WagonCrazy
08-30-2015, 02:11 PM
I've done hundreds of hoses using this crimper, with no leakage issues

That's great to hear 1oldmofo. Thanks for boosting my confidence in the finished product. With limited feedback on the Mastercool crimp tool anywhere else, I'm not sure if these connections will be ok, but I have to trust that they will.

WagonCrazy
08-30-2015, 02:17 PM
Well the system is now completely plumbed in and tightened up. I will not be filling it with refrigerant until well after I get this Nomad running and road tested. But I needed to completely plumb it in, so I can continue with everything else that penetrates the new firewall, and continue to get the front end sheet metal back on and all the wiring run.

Here's some pics of the finished plumbing:

4859 4860 4861 4862 4863 4864 4865 4866

chevynut
08-31-2015, 07:59 AM
Nice job Paul. ;) BTW, my VA setup has that newer heater valve, that's why I asked about it earlier. It's pretty big. I was able to put the cable-controlled valve inside the car but this one is going to have to go forward of the firewall somewhere. Now I'm not sure if my heater hoses are compatible. It's always something.