LS3 engine/auto trans installation kits

[vetmann]

OK guys. I just bought my next project... a 1955 Nomad that I want to drop a late model Camaro (2010 to 2014) driveline into. Who makes a quality, nice fitting installation kit for this? Seen them from $150 to $900. Also, some kits let you adjust where the engine sits, either in a stock location, or slightly forward or back of the original location. Has anyone relocated their engine from stock location and why did you do that?.

[Rick_L]

I would take a hard look at the Earle Williams engine mounts. They are the best for traditional Chevy V8s and their LS mounts are very similar. Their traditional mounts can position the engine stock location or 3/4 forward just by swapping some parts from left side to right side. The LS mounts have this feature too. The best thing about the Williams mounts is that they fit the frame well. You can also "cheat" the engine location toward the passenger side a tiny amount with the bolt on parts.

As far as positioning the engine, you want the passenger side head and coil pack cover (furthest back) to clear the firewall, and not have it so far forward that the front accessories crowd the radiator. Since an LS engine is roughly the same length as a small block, this is not difficult.

[chevynut]

You can't put an LS engine in the "stock" location (as referenced by the back of the block) and have it clear the firewall. The engine doesn't have the "shelf" behind the heads like the SBC and you have to move it forward about 2 1/4" to clear the stock firewall. Of course if you're going to cut the firewall out it doesn't matter.

[Rick_L]

The difference in the "shelf" length makes it hard to know or describe a reference point unless it's specifically stated.

But I would trust EW to have it right.

The nice thing about LS installations though is that you have a flat 4 bolt mounting surface where you can adjust the fore/aft location of those 4 holes in the mating part. Which means that if you want you can use a side mount setup for a traditional engine along with an "LS adapter plate". This adapter plate is available from a number of sources with different relationships between the LS bolt pattern and the traditional bolt pattern. Or you can make your own. Some are even slotted in an attempt to have "one size fits all".

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I have installed a ls2 6l80e in a 55 nomad still in progress. I can't speak to which kit is best because I made my on engine mounts. You will have to open up and mod the tunnel to fit the 6speed trans. The stock exhaust manifolds on your engine are a perfect fit if you dont want headers. The holley pan is the best option for oil pan. Good luck with it Rocky.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/rockytoppers1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_120.jpg

[vetmann]

Rocky. Thanks to you and the others for the info. Since posting the original thread, I purchased a wrecked but running 2013 Camaro 2SS with the 6l80e so my motorvation is set. Cnut states the engine has to be moved ahead 2 1/4" in order to clear the firewall, which is the path I want to take as the firewall and floor pans are original and in excellent condition. That being said, is there a side mount kit out there that will allow me to move the engine ahead that much? Most only allow forward positioning up to 3/4". I plan on using the original exhaust headers and cats but install a custom exhaust. Anyone got a name on who might provide that kit. Rick, I'll take a look at the Earle Williams mounts. Would like to buy both the engine and trans mounts from the same manufacturer.

I also know I have to change out the oil pan. Thanks for the recommendation on that. Did you relocate the A/C compressor or modify the cross brace to accommodate the original low mount position. I prefer not to cut original panels and frame pieces if I can avoid it.

I have another question. Have you or anyone else out there tried to install a late model Camaro rear suspension set up onto a stock 55 frame. I would like to use the the Camaro's rear suspension assembly. It would be nice to have all the benefits that would bring (independent suspension, big disk brakes, optimal gear ratio, etc) and be able to use the original driveshaft, modified for this application.

[chevynut]

I'm pretty sure that Camaro suspension is way too wide for a tri5 since it has a track width of 63.7". The rear wheel offset is +40mm making the rearend 66.85" wide at the wheel mounting surfaces. No way will that fit.

It's a nice setup but to install it you would have to back-half the frame and build a new rear frame section from scratch...if it can even be used. The a-arms would have to be pulled in around 2-3" per side to even get close to fitting so the stock "cradle" would be useless. Even a C5 suspension would probably be easier to use.

If you want IRS take a look at my C4 Corvette IRS installation kit. C4 rears can be had pretty cheap and my kit makes it fairly easy to install one. We also sell front clips for C4 conversions and they can be set up for an LS engine without cutting the firewall. Check out my website link below in my signature.

Here's the 5th Gen. Camaro IRS:

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Cars/2013%20Camaro%20ZL1/Model%20Overview/01_images/2013-camaro-zl1-model-overview-braking-and-handling-cnt-well-1-980x316-02.jpg

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/postimages/rear_suspension_4.jpg

[Rick_L]

Again, I think the Earle Williams pieces will put the engine where you want. Or any side mount kit combined with the correct adapter plates (Hooker's for one should work).

The AME IRS uses some of the Camaro pieces, has a similar layout, and is the correct width. You might want to look at it, for ideas if nothing else.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Not to bust your bubble but you will have to modify the floor tunnel to put the 6 speed in. Else you need to invest in a 4l80 4 speed and addition tuning cost etc. if your keeping stock fire wall and trifive suspension you are limited on engine placement it has to clear the steering arm mine is 1.5 inches off the firewall at back if heads. I already limit steering. The 6l80 is so tall if you try and install every thing low on a custom chassis the trans pan will scrap the ground. With my engine probably an inch fwd of alot kits I see the air intake is very tight to the radiator crossbar another limit on these cars.

[Bihili]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272050032789?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[chevynut]

if your keeping stock fire wall and trifive suspension you are limited on engine placement it has to clear the steering arm mine is 1.5 inches off the firewall at back if heads.

Rocky, how far forward of "stock" is your engine, and why did you move it so far forward? It sounds like you could have left it a little further back to avoid some of the interference.

When I first set one of these up in a tri5 I put the stock bellhousing and mounts on the LS engine and dropped it into my Nomad which still had the bellhousing frame horns on it. I found I had to space the mounts 2 1/4" forward to clear the firewall. This is where it sat.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5258&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5259&stc=1

Then I designed my LS mounts to put it in the same place on my C4 conversion frames. And this is where it sat in a 57 I built a frame for. It's about as far back as you can go without cutting the firewall:

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5260&stc=1

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5261&stc=1

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

Cause I screwed up lol. Does that explain it? I had nothing to reference stock location. We are within 1/2 to 3/4 inch the same location looking at your pics. You look to be were most are located. There is just not much of a window fwd and aft. My fwd movement helped a little with trans clearance but as stated limited steering travel.

[Rick_L]

Your point on the location being a fairly small window is correct from what I know. I think that the "point of reference" is the mystery link.

[chevynut]

I think that the "point of reference" is the mystery link.

If the bellhousing mounts are still on the frame, it's not too hard to space them 2 1/4" or so forward. Also, a common point of reference between my C4 conversions and the stock frame is the distance from the radiator support holes to the block. I have that measurement somewhere. The difference is that with the front steering rack there is no oilpan interference issue, but the front of the engine has to sit a little higher to clear the rack.

[Tabasco]

I haven't used this kit but it seems like the easy way to go.
http://www.classicchevy.com/chevy-ls1-ls2-ls3-and-ls6-engine-installation-kit-with-ceramic-coated-headers-non-convertible-1955-1957.html

Chevy LS1, LS2, LS3 & LS6 Engine Installation Kit, With Ceramic Coated Headers, Non-Convertible, 1955-1957

Part #:57-176020-1
Price: $1,139.99 Kit


Includes All Components Needed To Install An LS Engine
Works With Automatic Or Manual Transmissions
Includes Cast Aluminum Oil Pan, Engine Side Mount Kit, Polished Engine Side Mount Adapters, Silver Ceramic Coated Headers & Transmission Crossmember Kit
Will Also Fit 2000 Or Newer Vortec Engines
2008 SEMA Best Engineered New Product Runner-Up

[NickP]

Nicely pieced together from several manufacturers Tobasco. I wonder sometimes how well they coordinate everything though. Plates are from S&P. Mount towers are from I forget along with a biscuit rubber mount. Might be a decent solution.

[Rick_L]

Nick, I think those mounts are Chassis Engineering, which is also sold by CCI and Speedway. At one time they had a problem with the engine being too high but I think that's been fixed with a thinner rubber biscuit.

Is that the Holley pan in that kit?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

In the case of the OP I would not waste my money on a all in one kit. The holley pan kit cost about 320$. Any trifive cross member for a 700r will work with the ls install. The newer LS3 Camaro engine appears to have engine stands very close to the vet ls2 I installed. It is very easy to make or have made engine frame mounts to use with energy suspension donut style mounts. Just set the motor in for best fit and tack weld in the engine and trans mounts. Even the kits require welding or drilling. There are several headers that work or just keep the stock manifolds they fit the trifive perfect. In my case having the engine fwd allows for the trans dipstick(stock) to fit. I also have a little better access to the oil sensor behind the intake which is a pain to get to. Although I lost steering travel with oil pan location it doesn't matter sense my new hellwig sway bar hits a stock tire p205/75/15 about the same time the steering link contacts oil pan. I have to wonder if hellwig figured most folks would use disc brakes that pushed the wheel out 5/8 or better. In my case I didn't I kept it close to stock width.

For reference this is a link see below to my installation. Warning Don't panic about large hole cut in floor to clear 6 speed. My entire floor is getting replaced so we made sure it was going to fit first time in. Now installed the toe board and access plate can be left. The main floor hump will need to be split and moved up about 1/2 inch in center to clear trans. The weld seam edge on toe board hump if left in place has to be removed to clear trans.
http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135892

[chevynut]

I still don't understand why you're working so hard to keep that battery box in the stock location. It's a real eyesore, Rocky!!! :) :)

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I still don't understand why you're working so hard to keep that battery box in the stock location. It's a real eyesore, Rocky!!! :) :)

So are LS motors but I never let that stop me lol.

[chevynut]

So are LS motors but I never let that stop me lol.

You have a point there. :)

[markm]

So are LS motors but I never let that stop me lol.

Now that honesty.

[vetmann]

Rick,

I think LS1, LS2, and LS3 engines are all the same when it comes to how the engine mounts attach to the block. Therefore, they all use the same design adapter plate bolt hole pattern and how the upper half of the stock side mount engine mount attaches to it. I'll likely seek out a kit, from Earle Williams or other maker, that will allow me to move the engine forward enough to clear the stock firewall. Thanks for the info you guys are providing. Another question. I noticed several mentions of interference with stock steering arems. I've seen a kit to switch to rack and pinion steering so I can eliminate that big, slopping steering gear box. With the switch to a holley oil pan set-up and a rear mounted rack & Pinion set-up, will that reduce or eliminate steering restrictions? Thanks Paul

[vetmann]

Rocky. Pictures are worth a 1,000 words. Thanks for posting a link to them. I knew toe board weld seam would need modification for proper clearance but it's good to know the toe board and access plate area can stay stock and will clear the trans. Also you said any tri-five trans cross member for a 700R4 will work, but does that hold true for the 6l80? I suspect it does because most kits I see, you position your engine trans in the frame, mount the trans crossmember to the trans, locate and tack/bolt the crossmember mounting brackets to the frame, then bolt the crossmember to the frame brackets.. The only variable is the bolt pattern for the trans mount bracket on the crossmember. Can you comment on that? Please keep posting pics. It is really helpful.

[Rick_L]

vetman, steering clearance is not as easy as steering box vs. rack. A rack has its own steering clearance problems, as it's difficult to get the steering shaft by the front tube. Both can work with the right layout of exhaust and steering components. As a good example, Hooker sells one set of LS headers specifically for a box, and another set specifically for a rear mount rack and pinion. You might look into those, as Hooker also sells engine mounts that work with each version.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

The trans mount is stock unit samed used on 350, 400, 700 4l60 etc. That's why I assume most any trans cross member should work. The 500 box is suppose to be a good solution if you want to stay with gearbox. Probably wise to buy everything from Holley as Rick is suggesting if you want a rack and headers.

[vetmann]

Has any one out there ever used a Street Rod Garage frame with the Corvette IFS and IRS. They offer a frames where you can bolt on either C4 or C5/C6 IFS/IRS components. I like the idea of having a GM based, fully independent chassis because parts are readily available, reasonably priced, perform very well, and give a comfortable ride. Art Morrison makes a great chassis, but if you want to step up to their IRS, it is $8K over the 4-bar rear, which is pretty dear. You also have to use Wilwood or other after market manufacturers for the brake system. Street Rod Garage offers a similar set-up but with fully rebuilt Z06 components for under $20K. Basic frame for this starts about $6500. Would save me a couple years of work to buy a complete chassis like this. Just curious if anyone has any experience with this vendor and if so. how was the fitment, were any body alterations required, and if so, what.

[vetmann]

Rick,
I was planning on using the stock manifolds from the donor car... a 2013 Camaro 2ss. I know headers would give more power, they also present numerous issues. I thought I'd save a little money right now and just use the OEM manifolds. Have you ever used, or know anyone who has used, Street Rod Garage frames or chassis components?

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

If you want to go aftermarket chassis check out C'nuts offerings. His website is at the top of the page classic edge designs. His prices are about as good as you will find for C4 setup under a trifive. I actually found this site after seeing his nomad build. I was considering a C4 rear but decided to go with bolt on stuff sense I wished to keep my spare tire well etc all stock.