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View Full Version : 15 inch rims want big brakes wilwood if possible



Danny57
01-26-2016, 01:06 PM
I need your advice on upgrading my 57 front brakes. Currently CPP 2 piston disk w/power kit & stock spindles.

I see ads for wilwood 4 piston that say "will work with 15" rims." My front rims are Rocket Launcher 10 spoke. Rocket technical say I have 12.8" diameter clearance.
When I called wilwood, a tech said they don't make kits that work with 15" rims.

Can anyone tell me they have successfully installed 4 piston wilwood (preferably) or other calipers/rotors with 2" dropped spindles utilizing 15" rims the dimensions noted?
thanks,
Danny

NickP
01-26-2016, 01:39 PM
There are Wilwood units that fit but with a minimum of machine work depending upon the wheel application. In the Wilwood catalog, pick out what you want and then look for their clearance template. Print it out and see if it works. I have used 12.19 on the front of an 69 El Camino but with skinny wheel/tire combo.

Maddog
01-26-2016, 05:07 PM
Did you look at the Wilwood site? They have 3 kits with 4 piston calipers. The 11.75" rotor version will fit, they also have a 12.19" rotor but that may or mat not fit your wheels.
11.75":http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11010-DR&year=1957&make=Chevrolet&model=Bel+Air&option=All

I'm not sure which CPP kit you have and am not sure why you're specifying 4 piston, 2 piston and 4 piston are essentially the same, ones rigid mount the other is a floater. A floating caliper only uses pistons on one side while a rigid mount must have pistons on both sides of the caliper body, no difference in force if piston diameter is the same, don't be fooled by the "more is better" concept. Wilwood will be much better quality then CPP but I doubt there's any stopping difference.

chevynut
01-26-2016, 09:05 PM
I don't see how/why the number of pistons in the caliper drives the size of wheel you can use. I have some 4-piston 68 Corvette/Camaro calipers that work with 15" wheels. What determines if the wheel will fit is the rotor diameter, not the number of pistons.

Rick_L
01-27-2016, 06:18 AM
The caliper's dimensions affect the fit just like the rotor diameter. The caliper's "bridge" thickness essentially adds to the rotor diameter. The "safe" rule of thumb is that the rim should be 4" bigger than the rotor.

The C3 Corvette fudged everything just a little bit, using a 11.88" rotor rather than 12", and used 15" wheels. Similarly, the early Chevelle/Camaro/Nova setup was 10.88" rotors and could wear a 14" wheel. Also those wheels were the new (at the time) "disc brake wheels).

markm
01-27-2016, 07:42 AM
I don't see how/why the number of pistons in the caliper drives the size of wheel you can use. I have some 4-piston 68 Corvette/Camaro calipers that work with 15" wheels. What determines if the wheel will fit is the rotor diameter, not the number of pistons.

The 4 piston Camaro caliper is smaller than the C3 Corvette and actually works with the correct 14 inch 67/68 Camaro rally, I own one of each car. Camaro went to single piston calipers in 69. D53 calipers I think. The Camaro started using the single piece rotor that is common to 55-57 disk conversion then also.

markm
01-27-2016, 07:46 AM
The caliper's dimensions affect the fit just like the rotor diameter. The caliper's "bridge" thickness essentially adds to the rotor diameter. The "safe" rule of thumb is that the rim should be 4" bigger than the rotor.

The C3 Corvette fudged everything just a little bit, using a 11.88" rotor rather than 12", and used 15" wheels. Similarly, the early Chevelle/Camaro/Nova setup was 10.88" rotors and could wear a 14" wheel. Also those wheels were the new (at the time) "disc brake wheels).

Rick is your 4 inch rule for 4 piston only, I was thinking of 72 Chevy trucks and Impalas 12 inch roters with single piston. Both have 15 inch wheels.

NickP
01-27-2016, 08:50 AM
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/BrakeKits/WCD_Drawings/WCD_dwg-Large/ds707_wcd-lg.jpghttp://www.wilwood.com/Images/BrakeKits/WCD_Drawings/WCD_dwg-Large/ds756_wcd-lg.jpg
Rule of thumb for me is to review known data and requirements surrounding that which is being considered if available.

Rick_L
01-27-2016, 08:52 AM
It's a generic rule, recognizing there are exceptions, like the ones noted. And I'm sure there are others. I was unaware of the two that you stated, but they almost certainly have similar dimensions to the C3 stuff, even if the parts are different.

You should always check some way to see if they'll fit if you are under the 4" rule. Maybe even always no matter what the wheel size is. Calipers can also hit the wheel center. That's why some billet wheels have optional mounting pad thickness so you can fine tune that part of the fit.

Mike56
01-27-2016, 10:45 AM
My front wilwood brakes on my 55 will not fit in a 8 inch vette rally wheel. Some wheels, on the back of the wheel, have a step up as it goes toward the mounting surface, and this creates the problem. Book said I need a 13 1/16 clearance, I made a 13 3/16 cardboard pattern to test future purchase wheels. note: http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5481&stc=1http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5482&stc=1The 8 inch rally fit my back wilwood brakes with no problem.

markm
01-27-2016, 10:54 AM
I just remembered something from when my 67 SS 350 was a bracket basher in the 70s and 80s I had to install 3 inch long front wheel studs and 7/16 thick wheel spacers so my 15 inch Cragar Supertrick wheels would clear the calipers. Car still has spacers with correct 14 inch disk brake rally's because the disk brake rally wheel caps wont clear long wheel studs. When I replaced this car as a race car with a 2nd gen Camaro Same Cragar wheels fit without spacers. D53s I guess are more forgiving than 4 piston.

chevynut
01-27-2016, 10:59 AM
The 4 piston Camaro caliper is smaller than the C3 Corvette and actually works with the correct 14 inch 67/68 Camaro rally, I own one of each car. Camaro went to single piston calipers in 69. D53 calipers I think. The Camaro started using the single piece rotor that is common to 55-57 disk conversion then also.

I was actually thinking of the REAR calipers which I thought were the same for Camaro and Corvette. I only have 4-piston REAR calipers.

The 69 Camaro with the JL8 option used a larger front J56 4-piston Corvette caliper with 11 3/4" rotors where the 67-68 Camaro 4-piston calipers were a smaller J52 option, per my research.

In any case, the rotor size drives the wheel size more than the number of pistons in the caliper. Sure, there is "bridge" on any caliper but the position of that caliper from the center of the rotor is determined by rotor diameter.

I checked the fit of a stock tri5 15" wheel on an early C4 Corvette rotor and caliper and it fit fine. The rotors are 11.5".

Rick_L
01-27-2016, 12:23 PM
The common disc brake package on a 69 Camaro was the same parts as used on a 69-72 Chevelle, as well as 70-72 Monte Carlo and 69-74 Nova. It has 10-7/8" rotors and single piston D52 calipers. Those are also the most common parts used for disc brake conversions for 55-57s. The 69 Camaro big brake package was extremely rare, probably much rarer than the 67-68 4 piston option.

Multi-piston setups for the rear were Corvette only until they appeared on Gen4 Camaros I think. I think that rear setups don't violate that 4" bigger rule hardly ever.

markm
01-27-2016, 12:45 PM
I believe front disk only were available on 67/68 Camaros and about 500 69s were built with rear disk, rear disk did not appear again until the late 70s on F bodies and then on Firebirds/ TA with single piston. The small 4 piston 67/68 Camaro front is a leak fest and it is easy to retrofit single piston 69 calipers and brackets to their spindles. Even stainless steel sleeves in the bores is a temporary fix. Pretty sure my brother in laws 87 IROC [3rd gen] is also single piston. Are these newer 4 pistons set ups as troublesome as the ones of the 60s and 70s.

Maddog
01-27-2016, 02:54 PM
The common disc brake package on a 69 Camaro was the same parts as used on a 69-72 Chevelle, as well as 70-72 Monte Carlo and 69-74 Nova. It has 10-7/8" rotors and single piston D52 calipers. Those are also the most common parts used for disc brake conversions for 55-57s. The 69 Camaro big brake package was extremely rare, probably much rarer than the 67-68 4 piston option.

Multi-piston setups for the rear were Corvette only until they appeared on Gen4 Camaros I think. I think that rear setups don't violate that 4" bigger rule hardly ever.

11" rotors-exactly

Rick_L
01-27-2016, 04:50 PM
Are these newer 4 pistons set ups as troublesome as the ones of the 60s and 70s.

No, mainly because they are aluminum and don't corrode. Also the seals in the old calipers weren't the best.

Danny57
01-27-2016, 07:51 PM
Thanks to all who replied. It appears I need to forget 4 piston wilwood & see if I can find "big" 2 piston calipers. I was hoping for the "look" with the 10 spoke wheels showing nice calipers & drilled/slotted rotors. I'll dress up whatever fits, currently I have an older CPP DBK installed by previous owners. I see CPP advertising "big" brakes, that may be the direction I need to go.
Of course, the most important thing is improved stopping power.
Danny57

chevynut
01-27-2016, 08:06 PM
I still don't understand why "4-piston" has anything to do with anything. It's just a caliper. There were 4-piston calipers on cars in the 60's with 14 and 15" wheels. Wilwood obviously makes 4-piston calipers that fit 15" wheels with 11.75" rotors.....

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitListFront.aspx?mincatdesc=D8-4%20Front%20Replacement%20Caliper%20Kit

They even make them with 6-piston calipers:

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitListFront.aspx?mincatdesc=D8-6%20Front%20Replacement%20Caliper%20Kit

Here's two more kits with 4-piston calipers and 11-11.75" rotors that "provide plenty of clearance inside popular 15” wheels".

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitListFront.aspx?mincatdesc=Forged%20Dynalit e%20Pro%20Series%20Front%20Brake%20Kit

(http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitListFront.aspx?mincatdesc=Forged%20Dynalit e%20Pro%20Series%20Front%20Brake%20Kit)http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitListFront.aspx?mincatdesc=Dynapro%20Dust-Boot%20Pro%20Series%20Front%20Brake%20Kit

So, what's the problem? :)

chevynut
01-27-2016, 08:13 PM
These kits are all for 55-57 Chevy with 14-15" wheels. Rotors are 11"-12.19".

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitSearch.aspx?year=1955&make=Chevrolet&model=Bel+Air&option=All&axle=Front+Kit

Each kit has a diagram with the pertinent dimensions to check fitment.

Rick_L
01-28-2016, 06:27 AM
I would review all the stuff Cnut linked, relate that info to your wheels, and call Wilwood if you have further questions.

I don't think you'll find many "2 piston" calipers out there, though they do exist (don't know if Wilwood has them though). Point is, it just limits your choices.

The only ones I know of are late model GM truck calipers, though I'm sure there are others.

markm
01-28-2016, 10:04 AM
While we are discussing rotor dia. does it make sense that a 71 Camaro, Impala and 3/4 ton truck use the same brake pad d52. The rotors are 11, 12, 13 inch in dia.

Maddog
01-28-2016, 11:26 AM
Sure it does, GM uses a 2 15/16" diameter piston caliper in all those instances. The pads do not effect stopping power within reason, the clamping force is determined by total piston area and rotor diameter.]

Maddog
01-28-2016, 11:29 AM
I need your advice on upgrading my 57 front brakes. Currently CPP 2 piston disk w/power kit & stock spindles.

I see ads for wilwood 4 piston that say "will work with 15" rims." My front rims are Rocket Launcher 10 spoke. Rocket technical say I have 12.8" diameter clearance.
When I called wilwood, a tech said they don't make kits that work with 15" rims.

Can anyone tell me they have successfully installed 4 piston wilwood (preferably) or other calipers/rotors with 2" dropped spindles utilizing 15" rims the dimensions noted?
thanks,
Danny

]
The Wilwood kits I pointed out to you will work with 15" disc brake wheels. The Wilwood tech may have thought you meant 15" stock (original) wheels which their kits may not fit. So those kits are 4 piston and will fit your wheels.

chevynut
01-28-2016, 12:24 PM
While we are discussing rotor dia. does it make sense that a 71 Camaro, Impala and 3/4 ton truck use the same brake pad d52. The rotors are 11, 12, 13 inch in dia.

Yes that makes sense. A larger rotor allows the brakes to impart more force (leverage) against rotation. It's not only about pad size.