Engine stand rotation

[chevynut]

I bought a 2000 (?) pound engine stand from HF years ago and it seems to work great to hold my BBC. However, it's almost impossible to rotate with the full engine weight on it. What can I do to improve it? I didn't grease it and it has no zerk to do so. I thought about maybe using some sort of hub like one from a tri5 and machining a spindle to fit inside the engine stand tube so I could use bearings. Any other ideas? I don't want to be screwing around with it when I re-assemble my 502.

[Rick_L]

I never consider flipping or rotating the engine if it has the heads on it. Short block, definitely. Otherwise no.

If you insist, look at the CG. It's probably very top heavy with the heads on. For me that's fine, I want it closer to balanced as a short block.

[55 Rescue Dog]

A short block flips easy. I have never needed to flip a complete engine, or don't know when it would ever be needed to do so. Top always comes off first, goes on last. I built 2 427 Vette engines when I was in the service, without an engine stand. Just simply stood it up on the flywheel. Instant engine stand. One of them was done on a kitchen floor, and ran perfect. It is actually much easier to install pistons in that position, which is the way we did it at the engine factory I worked at.

[markm]

A four foot pry bar works for me. I have a couple stands I built in HS.

[chevynut]

You guys haven't addressed the question....how can I make it rotate easier :)? I don't care to hear about other ways you can do a redneck engine assembly without an engine stand since I already have one.

My short block didn't "flip easy". I can (barely) turn it with a bare block on it, but while I was taking the pistons out and the crank was still in it, it was a pain to get it to turn 90 degrees. Surely it should turn easier than that. Will grease help?

I'll be taking the block off of it tonight or tomorrow morning to take it to the shop for honing. I'd like to do something about the rotation before I get it back.

BTW, the sticker on it says it's good for 2000 pounds, but I'm skeptical.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Why wouldn't grease help a lot? It helps a lot to lift on the front, and stand on the base, while trying to rotate it too. But someone that is not a redneck could probably engineer a servo drive to spin it to the perfect position within 1/10th of a degree.

[Rick_L]

Now that you've addressed a practical question, you can get some answers.

What kind of fit on the tubes that form the rotating assembly? I would think grease would help. My guess is the HF stuff is small diameter and lots of clearance.

My "redneck" made in USA engine stand is 40 years old and has been used hundreds of times. It's a steel tube on a steel tube, probably about 3" diameter with lots of clearance but I can measure. I don't lube it. Length of the telescoping tubes is a factor too. I mostly do small blocks but have done several big blocks and it works the same. It's also 3 point not 4 point which the rookies think is bad about tipping but the key thing is the casters are spread out and 3 will always sit on any floor and not rock unlike 4. And yes if I do need to flip an engine with heads on it I can with the help of a 4' bar like markm suggested.

[chevynut]

Actually the rotating head is pretty big in diameter on this stand (2 7/8" OD) but the outer tube isn't very long at 5" , which I suspect contributes to the problem. I didn't lube it before putting my engine on it because I didn't think it would be a problem. Sounds like a cheater bar isn't out of the question either. I did some research on the web and it looks like this is a common problem with many of these stands.

I just removed my engine and looked at the rotating head more carefully. It's pretty "sticky" even with no load on it, and I realized it's powdercoated inside the outer tube and outside the inner tube. That seems to be the majority of the problem since powdercoat on powdercoat probably doesn't slide very well. I thought the inner tube was just painted black and the inside of the outer tube was bare. I took a scotchbrite wheel to the inner tube and lubed it with wheel bearing grease, and it made a huge difference. I'll see how it works when I get the block back. Thanks for the input.

[NickP]

I hated all of my old ones (3 and 4 point). My most recent unit is a smidge better but still has issues as you mentioned. It has a gear head that allows rotation but in all honesty, I don't know that a manually rotating head with bearings would be very safe. I can see it getting away from you, swinging back and flipping over, even with 4 points of contact on the floor versus the common 3 points.

[markm]

I am with you on the bearings Nick, in HS we made the frames out of heavy wall 3 inch square tube and welded heavy wall 3 inch pipe for the head to rotate in. We turned down a piece of 3.5 solid steel shaft to fit pipe snug. Never minded the four foot bar, we built them that way.

[chevynut]

Wow, a solid 3.5" shaft? Are you supporting a tank? Mine has a 3/16" wall tube on the outside and a 3/16" wall tube on the inside. Actually I think it's metric.

I was wondering about the bearings myself. I saw one stand that had a worm gear drive to rotate it. I happen to have a worm gear winch laying around and I may see if I can adapt it easily. I think removing that powdercoating and lubing it will make a lot of difference.

[markm]

Wow, a solid 3.5" shaft? Are you supporting a tank? Mine has a 3/16" wall tube on the outside and a 3/16" wall tube on the inside. Actually I think it's metric

I was about 16 or 17 what the hell did I know except "Mores Law" or bigger is better. I think about it now every time I pick the damn thing up.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Here you go, a great engine stand for one time use.
http://www.mile-x.com/otc-1735b-2-000-lb-hd-motor-rotor-repair-stand/

[Rick_L]

Does it have a motorized camshaft installation attachment?

[55 Rescue Dog]

Here is a great engine stand for one time use.
http://www.mile-x.com/otc-1735b-2-000-lb-hd-motor-rotor-repair-stand/
Free shipping too.

[markm]

That price makes the 4ft pry bar look good.

[nosjunkie]

And for a few hundred more you could have a 2 post 9000lb lift....

[Troy]

Hey cnut,

Here's a link to a custom built stand you might like

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=615256

[chevynut]

No need for a different stand. I got my block back and put it on my stand today, and it now works like a charm. ;)

Troy, that guy doesn't have enough to do. :)

[Troy]

Yeah but it's really nice!!!

[55 Rescue Dog]

I'm sure everyone must know this. The best way to keep from tipping a engine over on a stand while torqueing bolts, is to simply stand on the stand.

[chevynut]

You guys were right...the engine rotates a little too easily now. :mad: I may have to clean off the grease.

[markm]

I guess sometimes the is nothing like real world experience to help find the right answer.

[chevynut]

Well maybe as I add weight it won't turn quite so easy. It's pretty top-heavy with the bare block on it and adding the crank and caps should help balance it. Don't know what will happen when I put the pistons and rods back in, but it does have a lockbolt on it.

[Rick_L]

The effort to turn it will only increase as you add more parts. Follow markm's advice/comment. It will be good until the heads are on it. At that point don't turn it again.

Here's the way I do it. I assemble the short block and don't install the oil pan and pump yet, also no timing cover. This requires the block to be at various angles the way I do it because I want the bore horizontal when I install the piston/rod assembly and upside down when I torque the rod bolts. Then I rotate the block to right side up, degree the cam and check valve to piston clearance with the heads on but not torqued and with old head gaskets (you didn't throw the old ones away yet, right?). Once these checks are complete, take the heads/pushrods back off, put the timing cover and oil pump/pan on with the short block upside down. Flip it over and lock the rotator. Now you can install the heads/valve train and never have to turn the engine stand again.

That works 95% of the time or more. The other 5% you do what you have to do because you see something or did something out of the ordinary.

All this will become more obvious the more times you do it.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Believe it or not, the best way to assemble pistons, and rods to the crank on an engine, is with it vertical on the flywheel. That's how it's done in production, and I did it before I knew, 43 years ago, with a 427 HO BBC, on a rented kitchen floor, when I was 19, in the Navy, Long Beach. That motor turned out perfect. Actually, I haven't had a better one since. I did something right, and didn't know how I did it. SoCal was amazing back then. Speed-O- Motive was my inspiration, and they were pioneer hot rodding engine builders back in the early 70"s. BTW, the 425hp 427ci motor was very close to the L-88, only with iron heads, and 11:1 CR. The 435hp tri-power was good for sales though. It took me many years to appreciate how much I learned, and never have learned more, or, experienced since. Those were the learning years that I let slide, that are priceless now.

[Algoma56]

I'm sure everyone must know this. The best way to keep from tipping a engine over on a stand while torqueing bolts, is to simply stand on the stand.

Yes. Stand on it from behind the mounting head, and you're pulling the wrench so the engine wants to rotate back towards the post.