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slowfinger
10-02-2016, 07:06 PM
Does the small block manual bell housing bolt up to the chevy 396 block? and can I use small block starter? Would the 56 chevy stock clutch bolt to the 396 flywheel? What kind of clearance would we have with the big block? Can we use stock motor mounts with it? Might have line on a decent 396 engine for rebuild project. Please let me know if you have used a big block in your beloved chevy tri five and what we might encounter! Mad mook out there? Thanks George

Rick_L
10-02-2016, 07:34 PM
Yes the stock V8 bellhousing bolts up to a big block, and you can use the starter. You need to use a clutch for the 396 and it will fit in the bellhousing. You can't use stock front engine mounts as they won't fit the 396. A much bigger deal is where the big block needs to be mounted fore and aft. Having the bellhousing in the original location means that the 396 will interfere with your firewall. Moving it forward means that your oil pan won't clear the steering and that there will be problems with the fan clearing the radiator. The best compromise is usually 3/4" to 1-1/4" forward. This gives you a situation where the firewall mods are minimal but not avoided altogether, the oil pan to steering linkage problem is also there but manageable, and the fan to radiator clearance is ok if you mount the radiator in front of the radiator support, which is where it is for a stock 6 cylinder engine.

Lots of details and choices accompany all that, but it's a start.

chevynut
10-02-2016, 08:01 PM
I don't know why anyone would use such a tiny BBC ;)...it makes no more power than a big SBC and it's quite a bit heavier. Unless it's "free" stuff you have laying around, or it's for a restored muscle car, I think it's a waste. It's going to cost more than a SBC installation. An LS engine will put out much more power and can be built to the same cubic inches and everything is available to install one. It would probably cost more in the end, but you'd end up with a better setup. JMHO.

I have a 502 BBC in my Nomad and had a 427 in it before that. Everything behind bolts up just like the SBC but the engine is 2" or so longer in front of the side mounts. You need to move it forward about 1 1/2" to fully clear the firewall, unless you plan to replace the firewall anyhow with an aftermarket one. That will alleviate a lot of headaches. At 3/4" forward you will still have to modify the stock firewall. If you are using a crossflow radiator and SPAL electric fans, there's no problem in front of the engine. Oilpans are made that work in the BBC applications, or you can otherwise modify the steering like using a dropped drag link. There are headers available that work but I'm not sure which cast iron manifolds work with the stock steering box. I would not try to use the bellhousing mounts but go with side mounts and tranny crossmember if you move it forward. Thousands of BBCs have been put in these cars....it can be done.

markm
10-03-2016, 07:47 AM
I run a 1965 Impala SS396 motor for nostalgia purposes using CCI/Ecklers 2.25 forward mounts with style 500 power steering. I was pleasantly surprised at the power of the old boat anchor. Particularly on the day I ate my buddy's 502 crate motor powered 57 lunch. . I did not make ant firewall modifications and am able to remove valve covers with no hassle, additionally if I had only went 3/4 or so forward I would have issues with carb /air clearance on my tunnel ram. I use an Earl Williams upgraded stock clutch linkage with a modified block bracket. I told my 55 is was a 67 Camaro SS 386 when it came to buying pulleys, alt and PS brackets & hoses and the stuff all fit excellent

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
10-03-2016, 08:50 AM
I like the 396 lol. I miss the torque. Yes my stock LS1 will spank it in stock form but it still no feel as good on the bottom end as that ole tiny little BB cheby.......

chevynut
10-03-2016, 02:22 PM
I fail to see how a 396 BBC has more torque than a 400 SBC as the bore and stroke are almost identical. Please explain. You need more displacement or higher cylinder pressures to get more torque.

chevynut
10-03-2016, 02:28 PM
I run a 1965 Impala SS396 motor for nostalgia purposes using CCI/Ecklers 2.25 forward mounts with style 500 power steering. I was pleasantly surprised at the power of the old boat anchor. Particularly on the day I ate my buddy's 502 crate motor powered 57 lunch.

Your "buddy's" 502 must be the low performance version and running really bad that day. ;) :D Or maybe it had a carb that didn't work right.



I did not make ant firewall modifications and am able to remove valve covers with no hassle,

Really? At only 2.25" forward you have no firewall issues? :D That's excessive and is not needed to clear the firewall and remove valve covers. I don't know why CCI went so far forward when it's not needed. It will cause other problems, imo, depending on where the radiator sits and with the steering.

Rick_L
10-03-2016, 06:34 PM
I fail to see how a 396 BBC has more torque than a 400 SBC as the bore and stroke are almost identical. Please explain. You need more displacement or higher cylinder pressures to get more torque.

A stock 396 in the 325, 350, or 360 hp versions will spank any stock 400 SBC big time because the cylinder heads are so much bigger and flow better. That translates to higher cylinder pressures. As you move to modified stuff, the same holds true as long as the mods are of the same scope. Of course as you do that the rpm where peak torque occurs goes up. The main downside of the big block is size and weight, but it doesn't let a small block overcome better heads in most cases. The 375 hp 396 is a form of a modified engine as it has bigger heads and camshaft.

On the other hand, you can just as easily and cheaply use a 454 and get that much more. Unless you get a "deal" on something.

As for a 396 outrunning a 502, obviously it won't if equipped similarly.

chevynut
10-03-2016, 10:21 PM
Good points Rick, I hadn't considered the better heads and bigger valves and was too focused on displacement. :eek:

I agree that even a lower performance 502 would out-perform a 396 unless the 396 is a lot more radical. Not to mention the torque and HP of a ZZ502 with the higher compression, bigger heads and valves, and a bigger roller cam.

The 502HO crate engine with cast iron heads puts out 558 ft-lb and 461 HP. http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/big-block-502-ho.html

Even the lowest performance HT502 puts out 548 ft-lb and 406 HP. http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/big-block-ht-502.html

I don't think a streetable 396 could touch those torque numbers.

markm
10-04-2016, 06:50 AM
Your "buddy's" 502 must be the low performance version and running really bad that day. Or maybe it had a carb that didn't work right

Says the guy who has not owned a running Hotrod in this century.

Really? At only 2.25" forward you have no firewall issues? That's excessive and is not needed to clear the firewall and remove valve covers. I don't know why CCI went so far forward when it's not needed. It will cause other problems, imo, depending on where the radiator sits and with the steering.

I could have got by on valve covers with a little less, but would have probably had issues up high with carbs and air cleaners. I told OP what brackets pulleys etc. to use to not have issues with PS. All available from Ricks Camaro.

Rick is correct they never made a 400 SBC that ran worth a crap out of the box, They were all 2 barrel until the late 70s and by then they were blue smog motors.

The SBC 400 was a replacement for the 265 hp 396 which also was a 2 barrel and a boat anchor, but I bet you do not know what contribution it made to the world of performance.

Yes my 408 was well tuned that day and I had my 4.56 Dana 60 and BW Super T10 that day. The 502 had to big of Cam for Convertor and Two Eldecrap carbs.

chevynut
10-04-2016, 08:55 AM
Says the guy who has not owned a running Hotrod in this century.

Contrary to your opinion, I have several cars that I drive. Of course, since nothing past 1970 is a "hotrod" to you, you wouldn't understand. I love driving my Porsche and I have a 57 4-door sedan that I could drive any time I wanted to. My Nomad is a fun project, and it will get finished before long. I have done 100 times the work on mine than you have done on yours. Then we can compare "hotrods"...if you even own a tri5. By the way, nobody here has ever even seen yours. LMAO!


The SBC 400 was a replacement for the 265 hp 396 which also was a 2 barrel and a boat anchor, but I bet you do not know what contribution it made to the world of performance.

I'll be you don't know that I really don't give a shit. :D

[/quote]Yes my 408 was well tuned that day and I had my 4.56 Dana 60 and BW Super T10 that day. The 502 had to big of Cam for Convertor and Two Eldecrap carbs.[/QUOTE]

Tuned right and with the right parts and setup, you couldn't touch that 502. How much torque and HP does your "408" make? I'm betting you have no clue. What are the engine specs? Where's the pics? LOL! :D

JT56
10-04-2016, 09:07 AM
Shots Fired! Sounds like a Grudge Race!!!

chevynut
10-04-2016, 11:24 AM
Shots Fired! Sounds like a Grudge Race!!!

LOL! :D

I'll do stoplight to stoplight, but especially some twisty roads or autocross. My car isn't built for the drag strip because I see no reason to do that. If I wanted a drag car, I'd build one. :)

I'll bet 90% of the people in this country, or someone in their families, have digital cameras or at least phones with cameras. Why are guys (at least two of them here) so scared, embarrassed, or whatever to show pics of their car, especially when challenged to do so? It's pretty clear I have one...or two...or three tri5s. I could get both my 56 4-door and 57 4-door on the street if I wanted to since they were running cars when I bought them. The 57 just needs a battery or a jump start and I could drive it and it's a clean survivor car with around 50K on it. But the 56 is pretty ugly. I've posted pics of all my cars here. I'm not embarrassed...or scared. :D

markm
10-04-2016, 04:40 PM
I really don't know why you are so damn obsessed with pictures, if you were as smart as you profess to be you would look at them. They exist on this site many have seen them.

Rick_L
10-04-2016, 05:18 PM
markm has indeed published photos on this site of his 56 and his early Camaro.

Cnut, let's see photos of your 55-57s that can be driven.

I would attend a stoplight to stoplight grudge race between mark and cnut. Western Kansas or Eastern Colorado? Photos would be published. We could make this a big Trifivechevys party. LOL

Maybe Nick could bring his too.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
10-04-2016, 06:32 PM
markm has indeed published photos on this site of his 56 and his early Camaro.

Cnut, let's see photos of your 55-57s that can be driven.

I would attend a stoplight to stoplight grudge race between mark and cnut. Western Kansas or Eastern Colorado? Photos would be published. We could make this a big Trifivechevys party. LOL

Maybe Nick could bring his too.

I'll even put my ls1 powered olds up for pinks lol... sounds like a good reason for a gathering lol... Good idea Rick!!!

"USA1"
10-05-2016, 04:13 PM
Would that be Great Bend or Bandimere.

chevynut
10-05-2016, 06:28 PM
markm has indeed published photos on this site of his 56 and his early Camaro.

So why can't he either re-post them or post a link to the thread? Oh, I guess that's too hard to do. And it's too hard to put one in an avatar or album here.

I finally spent some time doing a search on several terms, and I found it. I don't recall seeing any pics of these pics, and he must have some issue with linking them or posting them again. I've never seen the Camaro he claims to own either. :p

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/3375-Last-Weekend-KKOA-Drags?highlight=drags

It's actually a pretty cool "nostalgic" 55. On the other hand, you don't have any pics of your car here that I know of either. :D

Here's a pic of my "survivor" 57 that I could drive if I wanted to...283 PP with a 3-speed. I've posted it before...

6400

This is also intact (6 cylinder, 3 speed OD and 4:11 gears) and driveable but I wouldn't ...Maybe markm would. :D

6401

Rick_L
10-05-2016, 06:48 PM
Cnut, your search skills are as lame as your two four door junkers. markm has posted photos of his 56 2dr ht which is the same color as your Nomad, and his yellow 67 Camaro. They run, yours don't. (When I say they run, they sure look like they do, and the photos aren't on a trailer or at the home shop.)

Are photos a requirement for posting here? We have few enough that post, it would be a shame to cut it down to about 5 people.

And where are Nick's photos?

markm
10-06-2016, 06:52 AM
The pictures Rick refers to were taken by my brother in law at HPT in the staging area. The Camaro ran high 13s and 56 high 14s that day after being driven there, obviously tagged and insured.

If we are going to count clunkers I actually have a second Serria Gold BA 2HT which is in about the same wore out original paint condition as Cnuts 56 4 door. I could drive it too if I took the old 350 from my 72 Blazer, Super 10 from 55 and 3.55 12 bolt from 56. But honestly we all know as long as these things have sat brakes, tires etc. are shot

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
10-06-2016, 07:51 AM
nut that 57 is perfect as is!!! Cept maybe install an ls3 in it lol.

markm
10-06-2016, 09:20 AM
6403

JT56
10-06-2016, 10:10 AM
I think cnut and markm should have a grudge race! Maybe it will be more exciting than below!!!

http://militaryhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/military-humor-funny-navy-submarine-racing.jpg

slowfinger
10-06-2016, 04:50 PM
I learned that Ecklers chevy parts has 396 engine install mod hardware listed in cataloque. Yea a ZL1 would be nice. We sure love nostelga from times ago! Drove a 56 chevy in high school and graduated way back in 73! Thanks for the feedback guys.....very interesting on your thoughts. Yea grudge race would be fun to watch! Maybe put it on You Tube. Geo.

Rick_L
10-06-2016, 06:37 PM
I don't think it would be much of a race, markm would win.

markm, do you still have all the cars that you've posted photos of? And I know you have more, at least one truck.

markm
10-07-2016, 06:53 AM
Yes I do, had the Camaro above out a couple weeks ago along with a SBC powered 74 Z28. My friend of mine that owns a machine shop that did my machine work drove it. Picture about was taken in Manhattan Ks. The 78 year old gentlemen behind me directing cars [track owner] owns a one man welding and machine shop and puts in 50-60 hours a week. His personal drag car is a 23 bantam roadster with a 409 bored and stroked to 477 with Hillborn stack injection.

chevynut
10-07-2016, 04:00 PM
Cnut, your search skills are as lame as your two four door junkers. markm has posted photos of his 56 2dr ht which is the same color as your Nomad, and his yellow 67 Camaro. They run, yours don't. (When I say they run, they sure look like they do, and the photos aren't on a trailer or at the home shop.)

Are photos a requirement for posting here? We have few enough that post, it would be a shame to cut it down to about 5 people.

And where are Nick's photos?

Screw you Rick. If you think you're so goddam good at searching, go look for the pics instead of being such an ass like you always seem to be. Why is it so hard for you assholes to post a link or re-post pics?

You're apparently too stupid to see that my 57 is a driver...it was driven into a barn where I bought it and DROVE it to my storage location you dumbfuk. I said the 56 3-door was ugly :p, but it runs. I guess you're the only one who can tell if a car runs by the pics of it, right dumbass?

I still don't see Markm's 67 Camaro and his pics showed a 55 in primer, not an orange 56. If you think you're so good post the fucking pictures. Oh, and while you're at it post some of your non-running piece of shit that you've been working on for two decades too. :D

We all know Nick sold his 55 and he doesn't have another car yet...and he doesn't claim to.

So kiss my ass you dipshit. :D

chevynut
10-07-2016, 04:13 PM
I don't think it would be much of a race, markm would win.

LOL! And you "know" that without a doubt? That shows just how little you really "know" asshole. :D

55 Rescue Dog
10-07-2016, 04:56 PM
Another clown sighting.

Rick_L
10-07-2016, 05:42 PM
Wow, hit a nerve I guess!

Rick_L
10-07-2016, 05:53 PM
I've had this link for a while.

http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/1889-My-56-2ht

markm
10-08-2016, 04:55 PM
Wow, that was some reaction, funny thing to me was he replied to it when originally posted.

I don't count any car as functional unless it has a current tag and insurance, unless its a turn key and go racing race car.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
10-08-2016, 05:39 PM
nice 56 Markm !!!

markm
10-08-2016, 05:49 PM
Thanks Rocky, it was my first car, I have had it a very long time, my second car was a 67 Camaro but not that one.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
10-09-2016, 07:03 AM
What year is the Z28? I had a 1973 z28 in the early 80's blue with white strips.

markm
10-09-2016, 07:24 AM
The Camaro above is a 75 and 74 was the last real Z28. I own two 74 Z28s one Blue and one Maroon/red. One original 4 speed and one set up for drag racing. The 73/74 Z28 gets a bad wrap in the motor department but they did put out almost twice the HP as base 350 and have 4 bolt mains and forged pistons and cranks,

NickP
10-09-2016, 09:20 AM
Talk about HIGHJACKING, poor slowfinger wanted information and all he gets are three and a half pages of insults and banter between kids and one direct response. Just a splendid way to encourage those that want to view CONTENT.

Bluegrass Trifive
10-09-2016, 05:05 PM
Talk about HIGHJACKING, poor slowfinger wanted information and all he gets are three and a half pages of insults and banter between kids and one direct response. Just a splendid way to encourage those that want to view CONTENT. Yep, too much drama. Why get involved?