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alhewitt
02-17-2017, 08:58 PM
A little history - we all have history, right?
This is my second 57, the first one I bought 55 years ago in 1962 at the age of 17. I was in high school and king shi*. I quickly removed the 283 and replaced it with a 327. It would run as I remember but lacked certain amenities. It was a 150, black, 2 - door post, 3 speed car.
Now I have a factory FI car that looks that same - 2 door post, 150, black car. So it is in my garage but not running well - yet. Current gas is bad shi* when left in the tank for a long period. I'm having to de-fuel it and god know what else. Anyhow I had it running (not well) and drove it around the block. What a tank! No power steering or power brakes, minimal head lights and I'm 17 years old again...
So I'm having fun with this car and sparing no expense, it will remain stock to the nut and bolt. Hope to attend some shows this coming summer, just want to be a player.
Cheers
Al

BamaNomad
02-17-2017, 09:33 PM
Hi Al, sounds like you have a neat car that many of us would love to pore over and explore.. :) Have fun with it and 'keep on keeping on'.. :)

chevynut
02-17-2017, 10:19 PM
Welcome to the site. I guess I have a hard time understanding why anyone would restore one of these cars to 60 year old condition, but it's not my choice what you do with your car. :)

BamaNomad
02-18-2017, 06:19 AM
That's what the word 'restore' means, CN... ie. RESTORE to original condition... :) Otherwise, you are *Preserving*, *updating*, or *Customizing*... IMO... :)

WagonCrazy
02-18-2017, 08:26 AM
Welcome to the site Al. Neat car and neat story you have there. Enjoy the heck out of it, and do whatever you want to it as you bring it back to life.
Life is short, get it drive-able...

busterwivell
02-22-2017, 07:07 AM
I have had my 56 for 10 years this coming April. It didn't run then, and I never drove it more than around my property until 2-11-17. Finally finished the wiring, and drove it 2 miles to the mailbox and back.......it's a start. I need seatbelts, then an alignment and new tires, and it's a driver! Finally! I share the excitement.

markm
02-22-2017, 10:54 AM
Al, some of us love 60s era hot rods and spend the $$$ to build them. However, only a fool would modify an original Fuelie or 2x4 car unless it was an incomplete basket case. I share you pain on the crap they call gas today.

chevynut
02-22-2017, 12:18 PM
Unless they're some rare option or special interest car, original restored cars (is that an oxymoron??) don't bring near the money that a nice modified car does. And you fix those horrible brakes and steering with more modern parts. Original restored cars belong in museums, not on the road imo. Once they're modified, they're not original anymore. Most guys today want modern performance (steering, brakes, suspension, lights, etc.) but old car looks. All you have to do is watch Barrett-Jackson to see that.

chevynut
02-22-2017, 12:31 PM
Here's a couple of examples. Show me ANY original restored 56 Chevy, Nomad or anything else, that has ever brought this much at auction:

This 56 Nomad with an LS6/405HP crate engine, T56, and a so-so interior brought $275,000 at BJ.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/83/e6/40/83e640afc09f6a28d209901a44516886.jpg


Here's another modified 57 convertible with AME frame, LS3/480 and 4L80 that brought $264,000 at BJ:

https://theblock.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_article/public/photos/8-wm.jpg?itok=oz3FSZsF

Neither of these cars would have brought nearly that much in restored original condition, or even built to "60's" standards. :D

BamaNomad
02-22-2017, 07:20 PM
Are you planning to sell yours at auction when you finish CN???

PS. Loan us $100K-150K each and we can each build one of those cars, then when we sell it at BJ for $250K we'll pay you back??? :)

567chevys
02-22-2017, 10:04 PM
Just shows you there are idiots out there with $$$ IMO

look at Grame the odd ball that had the blown 55

Tried to sell his and couldn't get shit out of it

markm
02-23-2017, 06:11 AM
We had a local guy build a so call high end 57 2ht,C4, and 502 had 150k plus in it went to BJ and got 48k before commissions

chevynut
02-23-2017, 07:20 AM
Just shows you there are idiots out there with $$$ IMO

No, imo it shows there is a demand for nice, high end cars. Some restored original cars bring over $100K and to me those guys are the idiots. :) If we're talking about a rare car like a COPO or Yenko Camaro, or a HEMI Cuda that's different.


look at Grame the odd ball that had the blown 55. Tried to sell his and couldn't get shit out of it

I don't know what he got for his car when he sold it. His was a imo more of a pro street build and pro-street is dead and has been for years. Plus while his car was pretty nice, it wasn't top end. I saw it in person at Goodguys Loveland CO. Nobody wants a pro-street car anymore, and few want restored cars. Like I said, most guys today want modern steering, handling, and conveniences in an old car. That's what pro-touring brings to the table.

Part of it is that you couldn't duplicate either of these cars for under $100K, and if a shop did it it would be higher than that. You can't make money having a shop build a car and trying to sell it. There's too many labor hours in a high end car with lots of mods.

Bamanomad, I have no plans to sell my Nomad but if it ever gets to the point that I lose interest in cars or can't drive anymore, who knows. Pretty sure I can get more out of it than I have in it....if you ignore my time. LOL!;)

chevynut
02-23-2017, 07:24 AM
We had a local guy build a so call high end 57 2ht,C4, and 502 had 150k plus in it went to BJ and got 48k before commissions

If that's the case it wasn't a high-end car and probably sorely lacked in workmanship or was a 60's style build.:D You can build a restored original and get more than that and most nice resto-mods bring more if done right. I personally think you just made that up because it resembles my Nomad with the C4/502. :D Where's the link to the auction? They're all online.

WagonWonder
02-23-2017, 08:12 AM
Congrats!

BamaNomad
02-23-2017, 08:17 AM
CN wrote: "Bamanomad, I have no plans to sell my Nomad but if it ever gets to the point that I lose interest in cars or can't drive anymore, who knows. Pretty sure I can get more out of it than I have in it....if you ignore my time. LOL!;-)"

:) I think that is true for most of us who expect (hope) to get more from our cars upon sale than what we put into them... :)
We have to DO the work ourselves and IGNORE payment for our time.. :)

You are right re a very nicely done RestoMod being able to bring $100-150K or more.. but everything has to be *right*.. the color, the builder, the model car, etc... and those things 'change' from season to season and are difficult to predict.

Personally I pay little attention to the B-J auction prices. I know too many examples of *fake cars* that get PUSHED by B-J at auction because the seller/builder is a close friend of theirs (or a great repeat customer?).. The prices are inflated on the higher end cars by RICH guys trying to impress their buds (or almost rich guys trying harder to impress the audience). The ONLY entities making $$ from a BJ auction are B and J themselves (at 20% of all the sales)...

alhewitt
03-02-2017, 11:43 AM
As an up-date to my 57 and to the many comments, thanks for the words folks. I do plan of leaving this car as original as possible and agree that any modification will detract form its value. This is not to say that modified cars cannot be better in terms of newer equipment and can be worth more but starting with what appears to be an original car I feel it would be a shame to modify it. Like the man said, it is my car and I can do with it what I like - this is America.

I have replaced the fuel system from gas cap to the FI system with new. Inside the old tank looked like the surface of the moon! It is amazing what current gas can do. I have access to 100LL avgas and plan to use it. I don't know if the valve seats are the newer variety so running it with leaded avgas should solve that problem.

I have removed the 283 cu in engine and have it running on a stand with an AFB while the FI system is undergoing restoration. The FI system is in a shop where it will be dialed-in and made to look new. The engine has good compression, makes close to 15" of manifold vacuum and idles at 45+ PSI of oil pressure. This was an auction bought car will little history known and based on these reading I'm planning to clean it up, paint it and re-install it with out opening up.

While the engine is out I cleaned up the engine bay. The previous owner went nuts with a can of Chev orange paint and had over-spray on the frame. Turns out that when this car was restored the frame was powder coated so I was able to remove the orange paint with-out effecting the appearance of the frame.

Work continues and I hope to take to a show or two this coming summer. I did jack up the rear and count the driveshaft revolutions necessary to rotate tires one turn. It came out to 4.56:1. So driving this car on the freeway is probably not going to happen.

This car is a little like the box of candy in the Forest Gump movie - you never know what you will get.

Stay tuned
Al

chevynut
03-02-2017, 12:13 PM
I have access to 100LL avgas and plan to use it. I don't know if the valve seats are the newer variety so running it with leaded avgas should solve that problem.

I would advise against doing that. Leaded gasoline has been banned for highway use for a couple of decades now. Also, when you buy aviation fuel, you're not paying the highway taxes so its illegal to use on the highway. The fine is up to $10,000. Plus it's almost $5 a gallon here.

Sounds like kind of a unique car. Good luck with it.

55 Rescue Dog
03-02-2017, 04:23 PM
E85 is what I would wish I should have set my car up for, instead of 110 race gas at $7+ a gallon. But I've only been putting on 100 miles a year so far. Running illegal gas makes for more fun.

chevynut
03-02-2017, 05:01 PM
E85 is what I would wish I should have set my car up for, instead of 110 race gas at $7+ a gallon. But I've only been putting on 100 miles a year so far. Running illegal gas makes for more fun.

Why do you need 110 Octane? What are your engine specs? It's fun until you get caught.....but that's not too likely I suppose. We have to run emissions tests here and I don't know if they can check for lead.

markm
03-03-2017, 06:10 AM
Why do you need 110 Octane? What are your engine specs? It's fun until you get caught.....but that's not too likely I suppose. We have to run emissions tests here and I don't know if they can check for lead.

Not everyone lives in the Peoples Republic of Colorado, I know lots of guys who have spiked 91/92 with 107, but if you are a chicken find a Renegade fuel dealer they have unleaded with 97 octane. I just attended a seminar on their fuels and oils. Google them and call their tech line. Their Tech. Director in a great guy, college prof. and real drag racer. RD if you are serious about 85 you should call him.

chevynut
03-03-2017, 06:30 AM
It's a FEDERAL law prohibiting the use of leaded fuel in highway vehicles, and it's FEDERAL tax evasion to use Avgas. It has nothing to do with Colorado. Unleaded 97 is fine to use but if you want to break Federal law and use leaded fuel, be my guest. It's still against the law, even if you don't get caught. All it takes is one highway spot check. If it as me I'd re-do the heads with new valve seats so I didn't have to hassle with finding the right fuel.

alhewitt
03-03-2017, 03:38 PM
Like others I'm not concerned about getting caught running leaded fuel. Thanks for the heads up that it may be illegal but I don't agree with what the EPA has done with leaded fuels - thank God Trump is reeling that organization in. I estimate that I'll drive this beast less than 100 miles a year and that is very low exposure. Locally here on the Seattle area there is a gas station that sells 100+ octane fuel at the pump (~$10 per gallon). If there is a proabition against running leaded fuel I'm ignorant of it.
I own an L79 1965 Chevelle SS. This engine has 11.0:1 compression ratio and objects to premium pump gas. I have found that a mixture of 5 gallons of avgas to 15 gallons of pump gas prevents pre-ignition.
The 57's 283 has an advertised compression ratio of 10.5:1 which is close to the L79's (both engines have cast iron heads) so driving it spirtedly will probably require something better than 92 octane pump gas. Yes I can retard the timing but that would be like a marriage without sex- why go there?
Cheers
Al

chevynut
03-03-2017, 04:18 PM
If there is a proabition against running leaded fuel I'm ignorant of it.

Ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense. The lead ban isn't going away, I can assure you of that. They've even been trying to outlaw the use of lead for hunting and fishing. It's already illegal to use lead shot in most places. Good luck!

55 Rescue Dog
03-03-2017, 04:18 PM
High compression engines freaking love it, and the smell reminds me of years gone by. I can't believe how many late model hi-po cars, are out there running around with giant cams, open exhausts with illegal cat deletes, that will make your eyes water. And then there are the stupid coal rollers too. My lawnmower pollutes more,than the few miles I drive on good ole Ethel fuel. I do blend 50% unleaded non-ethanol with 110 on an 11:1 engine, if that helps.

markm
03-03-2017, 04:24 PM
Honestly, I only thought is was illegal to put leaded fuel in a vehicle designed to run unleaded, in other words 1975 or newer.

Rick_L
03-03-2017, 06:04 PM
I think you're right markm, except for one thing. Race gas and avgas don't have the federal road gas tax added in to the price. And they sometimes make the disclaimer on that with race gas. So you're not paying the taxes owed, which is also illegal. This doesn't apply to high octane gas sold for the street, which is taxed (and unleaded).

The other half of the avgas story is the distillation curve. It's meant for flying conditions (altitude and temperature range). Race gas comes in a wide range of distillation curves, but is more generally like street gas.

markm
03-04-2017, 07:40 AM
I think you're right markm, except for one thing. Race gas and avgas don't have the federal road gas tax added in to the price. And they sometimes make the disclaimer on that with race gas. So you're not paying the taxes owed, which is also illegal. This doesn't apply to high octane gas sold for the street, which is taxed (and unleaded).

The other half of the avgas story is the distillation curve. It's meant for flying conditions (altitude and temperature range). Race gas comes in a wide range of distillation curves, but is more generally like street gas.

I have been to several race fuel seminars and have heard a lot reasons why avgas is not a good plan. I was afraid to relay it in my own words because I am not an expert and if I state something wrong Cnut will crucify me. Avgas might work for him up there in that thin air.

I heard a race fuel dealer complain about paying road tax once, so that may be brand or region specific thing. Having met Renegades tech guy and had him encourage people to contact him that why I said to call them.

I still remember the day 40 years ago I took a brass drift to the fuel inlet of my 75 Camaro and installed Doug Thorley Headers. Jimmy is still waiting on his check.

alhewitt
04-24-2017, 09:33 PM
As an up-date... I removed the engine from the 57 to clean up the engine compartment, strip and paint the the engine, remove and rebuild the Rochester FI system. Last week with all parts cleaned, repainted and the FI system returned from the shop I assembled it all and first ran the engine on a test stand. When satisfied that it was running correctly I installed the engine in the car and drove it for the second time since owning it. It runs well but is still a tank! Shifting a 3 speed on the column is like riding a bike, you never forget how to do it.

Saturday there was a car show 15 miles away and a high school buddy from the 60's and I drove it to the event. What a hoot. There are very few true stock tri-fives out there today and I can see why. With so many improvement available it is easy to make one of these 60 year old cars into a much better driver. The commute to and from the show was great with lots of full throttle operations. No need to worry about lighting up the tires as the little 283 in. 283 HP SBC does not have the balls to do that. There are more shows this summer and now that it is back together I can enjoy it. Many people had nice things to say about this car so for now I consider myself as the care taker of it.

Oh, some on this site will go ballistic but it runs real well on 100LL avgas, however I need to be on the look-out for the unleaded fuel Nazi... Al

JT56
04-25-2017, 04:50 AM
Let the fun begin!!!

WagonWonder
04-25-2017, 05:58 AM
I still remember the day 40 years ago I took a brass drift to the fuel inlet of my 75 Camaro and installed Doug Thorley Headers. Jimmy is still waiting on his check. You are aware that this is 2017, not 2015 LOL.

WagonCrazy
04-25-2017, 07:13 AM
Post some pics of your car and the engine compartment. We'd all like to enjoy what you are doing with it.
Thanks,

markm
04-25-2017, 08:24 AM
You are aware that this is 2017, not 2015 LOL.

I really don't know what's so funny, I never said the car was new, it was 2 years old when I bought it. If you had paid attention you would note I said Jimmy was waiting on his check, not Gerald.

chevynut
04-25-2017, 08:45 AM
Oh, some on this site will go ballistic but it runs real well on 100LL avgas, however I need to be on the look-out for the unleaded fuel Nazi... Al

Congrats on the drive...sounds like a lot of fun. I too would like to see some pics.

I think I'll go out and shoot a deer in my backyard this afternoon. Nobody's looking and my freezer is getting empty. I doubt I'll get caught and it doesn't really hurt anyone. ;)

alhewitt
04-25-2017, 02:58 PM
Pictures? You're kidding right? I know that I'm trainable as I flew 200+ combat missions in Vietnam but learning how to download a picture from my camera to this site... I need my 12 year old grandson to help me. Let me work on it and thanks for asking.
Al

BamaNomad
04-25-2017, 07:03 PM
Congrats on the drive...sounds like a lot of fun. I too would like to see some pics.

I think I'll go out and shoot a deer in my backyard this afternoon. Nobody's looking and my freezer is getting empty. I doubt I'll get caught and it doesn't really hurt anyone. ;)

If you will send me some jerky... I won't tell... :)

BamaNomad
04-25-2017, 07:05 PM
Pictures? You're kidding right? I know that I'm trainable as I flew 200+ combat missions in Vietnam but learning how to download a picture from my camera to this site... I need my 12 year old grandson to help me. Let me work on it and thanks for asking.
Al

Al, just take it one step at a time... 1) move the photos from your camera (or phone) to the computer, then 2) it's easy to select the files from your computer to upload to your post...

I too want to see that 283/283 (EL ?) engine.... and the car that it's in.. :)

alhewitt
04-25-2017, 08:59 PM
It's not clear if these pictures will show up, but here is an attempt to send a few... ALl

alhewitt
04-25-2017, 09:16 PM
Still trying.

alhewitt
04-25-2017, 09:20 PM
One more picture.

BamaNomad
04-26-2017, 06:38 AM
Al, great photos of a super subject.. :) (only one of the photos - the one of the car itself - was 'upside down'..).. Forgive me for taking some liberties with it and reposting.. :)

alhewitt
04-26-2017, 07:33 AM
As an observation; one of the above pictures of the engine (it is running in this picture) and is taken from the rear of the and it shows the back of the distributor. FI cars have a gear drive on the base of the distributor to drive the FI fuel pump. Looking at this picture you will see a tach drive on the rear of this distributor gear drive. This is some what unique in that this rear drive is connected to a cable that runs through the firewall and to the back of an AC Delco tach circa 1957, and I assume it was a factory or perhaps a dealer installed option. The base of the distributor is pined to the intake manifold and will not rotate. This locks the distributor base in position to connect the FI fuel pump drive pointed to the front of the engine. Timing adjustment is accomplished by a split in the distributor housing that has a clamp to hold the top it in place after the timing is set. This gear drive requires constant lubrication so looking at the picture you'll see a flexible SS hose from the oil port on the rear of the engine to the distributor gear drive. Factory installations had a hard line in lieu of the flexible line that I installed. This is one of a very few modifications that I've made to the original set up.

The tach is screwed to the dash and located at the 4:00 position referenced from the steering wheel. This is not ideal and somewhat difficult to read. It is a little like an airplane instrument panel that has a shot-gun placement of instruments. It is usable but not ideal. Also there is no illumination in the tach so it is a day light operation system.
I'll get some more pictures and post them now that I've learn how (sort of)...
Al

alhewitt
06-12-2017, 05:23 PM
I've been busy with this project and thought I'd send a few more pictures to the group. I've replaced the door and wing windows as the the original ones were weathers on the edges. I got an education on the window regulators and have them working smoothly - big improvement. I have new front windshield and rear glass yet to install. I was able to get LOF glass with the correct date code on it. While I had the door panels off I replaced them as the old ones were showing some ware and were stained in a few places. The car did not come with arm rest but I've added them for comfort in driving. I also had the front seat recovered with period correct material from Cars Inc. This is cobblestone pattern circa 1957 and they sent me the seat covers, foam and burlap. A local upholstery shop reinforced the seat springs and installed the seat covers.
I'm about done with any planned work but it's 60 years old so I expect to be working on it for a long time to come. I've had it to a couple of car show and have one to attend this coming Sunday. Living large... Al
PS. I tried loading some pictures but not sure that they will show. Computers!

BamaNomad
06-12-2017, 07:33 PM
Sounds like you're making some good progress with that beauty! :)

PS. you know when you get 'educated', you're obligated to pass it along (to the rest of us)... :)

alhewitt
06-12-2017, 08:21 PM
Maybe these pictures will appear. It's always a crap shoot!
Al

WagonCrazy
06-13-2017, 08:36 AM
I totally DIG this 57! Nice. Thumbs up.

alhewitt
06-15-2017, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the kind comments, like all cars this one is a labor of love. There are three or four car shows planned for this summer that I want to attend. I plan on driving it as that is what it needs as it sat in storage for years and needs to be driven. I'm fortunate to have a lift so keeping it clean on the under side is doable.
Cheers
Al