Questions re modifying 72 Nova 8.5 rear for TriFive...

[BamaNomad]

I purchased a '72 Nova rear (8.5", 3.08 Posi gears) for installing in my '56 Nomad. I have removed the large multi-leaf perches from the Nova rear and am now removing the stock rear from the Nomad so I can 'match' up the trifive perches to the locations/angle of the stock rear. In removing the stock rear from the Nomad, I've noticed a couple of differences that I haven't paid much attention to until now.
1) The bracket that is welded to the stock rear which retains the brake line brass block. I think I've seen these for sale, but can't recall where. Can anyone help?
2) There is a little retainer welded to the axle tubes on each side which retains the stock bumper on the inboard end (the outboard ends are retained under the large U bolts. Any idea if/where these little clips might be located?

I suppose I can 'make these' if I have to, but I want to do so retaining the factory functions.

[WagonWonder]

Summit Racing has the brake stuff. Section 4, Sheet 4.00 drawing (http://www.trifivechevys.com/manuals/1956PassengerAssemblyManual/4-4.gif)shows the 3711561 Retainer but I don't think it's reproduced. You should be able to cut yours off though and re-use.

[markm]

The only thing I can add is when doing a perch swap, heat is your enemy, use a grinder to remove old perches an skip around welding on new.

[BamaNomad]

Thanks for the comments.

It took a while to cut off the large multi-leaf Nova (same as Camaro) perches... 3 cuts across each using my DMC2000 (first time using this) before I could get the majority of the perches off so I could use the grinder to finish it off. I've been looking but haven't found any replacements for the brackets I was looking for, so I guess I'll have to simulate them (ie. make them)... having the right thickness metals around is usually my biggest issue with that...

[markm]

Thanks for the comments.

It took a while to cut off the large multi-leaf Nova (same as Camaro) perches... 3 cuts across each using my DMC2000 (first time using this) before I could get the majority of the perches off so I could use the grinder to finish it off. I've been looking but haven't found any replacements for the brackets I was looking for, so I guess I'll have to simulate them (ie. make them)... having the right thickness metals around is usually my biggest issue with that...

Most of the [NEW] NEVER EVER WORK perch's out there are too wide, they are pricey but H&H has correct ones for 55-57.

[BamaNomad]

I bought the TriFive perches from Ecklers... I'd think they would be right, and they "look" right, but I will double check before welding them on.. Thanks for the caution note.. :)

PS. I've seen some comments/criticisms about members here posting on the other site rather than here. I'm 'guilty' of that, if 'guilt' is appropriate, but my reason is that my experience is mostly with 'stock' parts and cars. I've worked and repaired/restored TriFive cars for many years, judges in many national events, and at one time knew essentially ALL the part numbers common to the factory stock cars (can't say I know them all now, as my memory isn't what it used to be!).. :) Anyway, I come to the forums for two reasons: 1) to get answers to my questions - which generally is regards to something custom, as I'm now building a couple of 'mild customs' as drivers, and 2) to help novices or beginners with simple stock-related questions that I can easily help with. There are many more such people (novices) on the other site than here.. :) and I get a good feeling out of helping.

Today I posted there in response to a questioner about a good/easy rear end swap, so since I happened to be in the middle of one, I replied thusly:

"Ford 9" is stronger, but it also requires more HP just to rotate the gears, so you need big HP to use one or need one... and you still spell it F O R D....
NOT in my Chevy! https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I thought I had chosen an 'easy one'... 72 Nova 8.5" 3.08 Posi unit.. I had to cut the spring perches off (not easy).. grind the tubes down smooth... today I pulled the stock rear (This USED to be easy-ier 30 yrs ago!).. https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif After 10-20 times getting up and down getting the 'right wrench/tool'.. removing the springs (I'm replacing the springs too), disconnecting the emergency brake cable in each drum brake, disconnecting the brake line, disconnecting the driveshaft, disconnecting the rear from the springs (and finding ONE big nut that was screwed up by a prior owner and wouldn't come off).. dragging the rear end out with one spring still attached, flipping the rear end over to try again to remove the nut, finally resorting to the torch to cut the U bolt, then turning around to find that the vent was missing in the rear axle and when I flipped it over, it drained about half the lube onto my 'virgin' concrete (no virgin any longer!).. spending an hour with oil dri, Simple Green, and then scrubbing with wisk/tide/clorox and a brush, before rinsing.. and then scrubbing the grease off my arms so I can have lunch and take a nap!~ https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif as I said earlier.. NOTHING is easy when you're pushing 69.. so after my nap, I had to head out to pick up a friend's trailer so I can go retrieve another Nomad tomorrow morning... https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif ... It ain't Easy.. but it Must be fun.. or I would quit doing it? right? https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
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So maybe this can stir some *discussion* here.. without arguments and name calling I hope! :)

[chevynut]

PS. I've seen some comments/criticisms about members here posting on the other site rather than here.

I don't care if people post on the other site....you can do what you want. I do think it's pretty bad when people use multiple IDs on both sites to hide behind, though. IMO that's pretty deceitful.

But what I observe is that some people post virtually NOTHING about cars here, only political crap, and post their car project stuff over on the other site. This is a car site too, and imo most of the discussion should be about CARS, not politics. I'd say well over 90% of my posts are car-related, either progress on my Nomad, helping answer questions guys have, cars in the news, new technology, analysis of suspensions, or whatever. I usually try to welcome new members and I post politics once in a while but I've been trying to avoid it.

One ex-member got pissed at me because I said that people who only post political posts here might as well get lost....I didn't specifically reference him and wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but apparently it hit a nerve with him. He posts tons of progress pics of his 57 on the other site, and I asked him multiple times in PM to please do the same here since he has a pretty cool project. He did post about it once or twice, but then got offended because I said that IN MY OPINION posting only about politics here is BS. And now he's copying my seat mount design that another guy (a past customer of mine) gave him and doesn't say one word about who actually designed it.

In some ways, I now understand why the other site doesn't allow political posts. Maybe we need a rule here that you're allowed ONE political post for every 50 posts about cars. :p

[55 Rescue Dog]

I don't care if people post on the other site....you can do what you want. I do think it's pretty bad when people use multiple IDs on both sites to hide behind, though. IMO that's pretty deceitful.

But what I observe is that some people post virtually NOTHING about cars here, only political crap, and post their car project stuff over on the other site. This is a car site too, and imo most of the discussion should be about CARS, not politics. I'd say well over 90% of my posts are car-related, either progress on my Nomad, helping answer questions guys have, cars in the news, new technology, analysis of suspensions, or whatever. I usually try to welcome new members and I post politics once in a while but I've been trying to avoid it.

One ex-member got pissed at me because I said that people who only post political posts here might as well get lost....I didn't specifically reference him and wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but apparently it hit a nerve with him. He posts tons of progress pics of his 57 on the other site, and I asked him multiple times in PM to please do the same here since he has a pretty cool project. He did post about it once or twice, but then got offended because I said that IN MY OPINION posting only about politics here is BS. And now he's copying my seat mount design that another guy (a past customer of mine) gave him and doesn't say one word about who actually designed it.

In some ways, I now understand why the other site doesn't allow political posts. Maybe we need a rule here that you're allowed ONE political post for every 50 posts about cars. :p
Here is one more post you can add to your list of posts that have nothing to do with cars, or the thread. If 10% of your 7800+ posts have nothing to do with cars, that puts you well into the lead for the most BS posts by far! Several since yesterday.

[rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017]

I am not familiar with these but if they are anything close to what the second gen Camaro used you better weld the axle tubes or that will be your first failure on this rear end. For some reason the factory just tacked them in in a few spots I have had one fail before on a 1973 z28 and seen many that had same issue.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I used the clamp on mounts, and when everything was where I wanted it, I just tack welded in place.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Clamp-On-Leaf-Spring-Pad,35921.html

[markm]

Unless you put big sticky tires on it and drive it hard no additional welding is necessary. I have raced these rears and not had problems. Yes it does happen, maybe I have been lucky.

[BamaNomad]

Thanks for the note Rocky!~ Racers welded the tubes even on the 12 bolt 1st gen rears... as it is on one I have from a Trans Am car... I haven't thought about that on this rear... but maybe I should? I have to finish up the rear replacement in the 56 before I can begin thinking too much about the 'new' 57.. :) as I have parts all over my shop floor. I'm going to have a pair of 'nearly new' 4 leaf lowering springs for sale... too low and not stiff enough for me in my 56 Nomad. The 'new' 57 Nomad has a 1-piece smooth frame in it which also will be available soon for anyone needing one in my area...

[BamaNomad]

I'm running 235R70-15's on my 56 Nomad, and the meek 350 in it isnt' going to break anything (I don't think)... but I will check the tubes out before I install the rear.

[BamaNomad]

Most of the [NEW] NEVER EVER WORK perch's out there are too wide, they are pricey but H&H has correct ones for 55-57.

I tacked on the Ecklers perches yesterday, and whomever said they were generally 'wider' was correct. They are a bit wider than stock, but only 1/8" or so.. so I used them. They also did not have the 'flanges' which welded to the tubes as did the original rear I removed. What is H&H???

I also checked out the 'clamp on' perches mentioned in another post which I was not familiar with prior. :)

[Rick_L]

H&H Classic Parts in Bentonville, Arkansas. A very good place to buy trifive parts especially if you're not too far away. They carry a broad line of parts. Good service, charge you actual shipping. Tell you whether they have it in stock.

[markm]

Before I ever considered welding tubes in I would triangulate the perches with some 1/4 x 2 strap. I turned the bottom of the perches on my 55 into rocking chairs.

[WagonWonder]

Before I ever considered welding tubes in I would triangulate the perches with some 1/4 x 2 strap. I turned the bottom of the perches on my 55 into rocking chairs.

How'd you get the springs to mount up with that in the way?

[markm]

The gussets go from front edge of perch to top of tube and back edge if perch to top of perch, gussets are between U bolts.

[chevynut]

Here is one more post you can add to your list of posts that have nothing to do with cars, or the thread. If 10% of your 7800+ posts have nothing to do with cars, that puts you well into the lead for the most BS posts by far! Several since yesterday.

I was responding to Bamanomad's comment. Why do you have an issue with that? You go off-topic regularly on most threads.

[BamaNomad]

Most of the [NEW] NEVER EVER WORK perch's out there are too wide, they are pricey but H&H has correct ones for 55-57.

Mark... I should have LISTENED more closely.. to both you and Rick. I actually looked at the H&H site and didn't find the perches, and didn't get them on the phone, so I ordered from Ecklers a couple of weeks ago.. and of course welded them on and the past couple of days have attempted INSTALLING the rear.. The Ecklers perches were about 1/4" wider than the 2" wide stock ones.. and as you stated.. 'won't work'.. trying to get the U bolts around those perches and into the holes of the lower spring/shock bracket is difficult (to impossible?), but I'm still trying... thinking of heating the sides of the perches and 'hammering' them closer to the 2"...?? It KILLS me to think I've got to cut these off and redo all this stuff... :(

PS. I called H&H again this morning, asked them to measure the ones they have .. which are CORRECT and 2" wide...
Now I need some help from you folks.. (I can't bend my knees the right way so I can KICK MY OWN ASS!)... so have it boys.. teach me to LISTEN more.. :)

[markm]

The H&H perches are not cheap but they are worth every penny of cost. I can walk in to a local 4x4 Off Road shop and buy those ill filling wide ones for about 12.95. Sorry, maybe I should have been more persistent on this, However, I am used to being ignored on the internet and figure sometime people have to learn the hard way like I did, in this regard, I do appreciate people who "man up " with follow up post that may help the next guy.

[BamaNomad]

Mark... you made an effort, and I made an effort to find them, but not enough of an effort. If you'd included a LINK to the parts, it would have been more effective as I would have FOUND those parts and ordered from them, but when I couldn't find the parts, or get anyone on the phone, I gave up and ordered Ecklers... I figured.. they had been selling their parts for years, so SURELY they had to be OK... but it wasn't so... and I'm giving them hell now and suggesting they replace the crap they are buying with the ones from H&H... The ones from H&H do not have the 'flange' like the original stock ones, but at least they are the correct width.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Mark... I should have LISTENED more closely.. to both you and Rick. I actually looked at the H&H site and didn't find the perches, and didn't get them on the phone, so I ordered from Ecklers a couple of weeks ago.. and of course welded them on and the past couple of days have attempted INSTALLING the rear.. The Ecklers perches were about 1/4" wider than the 2" wide stock ones.. and as you stated.. 'won't work'.. trying to get the U bolts around those perches and into the holes of the lower spring/shock bracket is difficult (to impossible?), but I'm still trying... thinking of heating the sides of the perches and 'hammering' them closer to the 2"...?? It KILLS me to think I've got to cut these off and redo all this stuff... :(

PS. I called H&H again this morning, asked them to measure the ones they have .. which are CORRECT and 2" wide...
Now I need some help from you folks.. (I can't bend my knees the right way so I can KICK MY OWN ASS!)... so have it boys.. teach me to LISTEN more.. :)
Maybe changing the lower spring/shock plate would be the way to go. I have the one from AFCO racing and it fits great.

[NickP]

Maybe changing the lower spring/shock plate would be the way to go. I have the one from AFCO racing and it fits great.
Poop, happens, plain and simple. 55RD has a possible solution that might be worth visiting. At a 1/4" width beyond speck, that's only 1/8 per side. Any competent machine shop can remedy the stock plates eliminating removal, replace and re-weld to include down time. Obtain some extra thick washers from McMaster.com to strengthen the load disbursement.

[Custer55]

A new lower plate, or modifying the original sounds like a good solution to me. Much easier than getting new perches and spending the time to cut off and replace the replacements.
Brian

[BamaNomad]

I think you fellas are right.. I even have an extra pair of stock bottom plates to modify.. I will just make slots of those holes and use some thick washers... and *maybe* I won't have to buy new U bolts to be long enough.. :)

[markm]

These guys are correct I have modified Camaro traction bars on my 55 and what they suggest works. FYI, it is not quite an attractive on install but it works.
Now that I got your attention those aftermarket perches are bad about bending. I turned the ones on my 55 into rocking chairs and had to pull rearend and put 100 ton press action on them to straiten them. I did this with a piss ant 396 and a couple of antique Holley Carburetors. This was also done with the 275/60/15s before the addition of 295/50/15s. Four pieces of 1/4 x 2 strap about 3.5 inches long is all it takes to gusset them.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Here is the AFCO lower spring plate on a 2 1/2 inch leaf with a 3 inch axel tube. It can also be swapped side to side to move the shock mount inboard, or get 2 of the same side for a staggered shock mount.
7110

[55 Rescue Dog]

Here is the AFCO lower spring plate on a 2 1/2 inch leaf with a 3 inch axel tube. It can also be swapped side to side to move the shock mount inboard, or get 2 of the same side for a staggered shock mount.
7110
Also in this pic, but a little hard to see are the bump stops I added. Instead of mounting to the frame I simply took another leaf spring mount and clamped it to the axel instead of mounting on the frame, and used the squishy progressive jounce bumpers they used on the front of the S10 Extreme pick ups. I use those on the front A arms too. When you hit the bumpers they react much smoother than the rubber or poly bump stops. Almost like a progressive spring. GM part 15956547
https://shopping.yahoo.com/5674440551-genuine-gm-15956547-control-arm-bumper-front;_ylt=A0LEV0f4m_xY.mMAd1ZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByM jB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?type=offer

[55 Rescue Dog]

Here is one on the front that that the car practically rides on, but you wouldn't know it, because it rides very smooth. Known as the ZQ8 bump stop it is a common mod on the Impala SS, replacing the firm OE rubber bump stop. A great mod to any lowered A-arm front suspension!
7111