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BamaNomad
04-01-2017, 08:30 PM
Today I went to Nashville, TN and completed purchase of another Nomad (57) project, then trailered it home.. This is a Nomad 'kit', but the main attraction to me is that the body work and paint have been completed (a few years ago), but the owner ran into $$ difficulty and didn't complete it. The bodywork and paint are nicely done (and certainly cured by now).. :) The body is sitting on the original frame again, barely bolted on and it will come back off and go onto my Corvette Corrections chassis. I will also use the LS1/4L60 trans combo and all the other prepared/restored parts which I'd completed for my other '57 Nomad (bodywork/paint NOT complete as yet). Attached are some photos of the car as I purchased it... I'll post more photos here as I prepare the parts and begin assemblying the car... PS. This is an early Nov '56 LA assembly, spent some time in southern Calif, then went to Texas in the 80's.. and to Nashville TN about 10 yrs ago. Originally was a sierrra gold/adobe beige car before the repaint...

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Rustaddict
04-02-2017, 04:18 AM
What an awesome find! You ought to have a much more fun build just bolting parts together and not having to mess with body any paint work. The PO sure picked the right color red. It ought to be a beautiful car when done.

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
04-02-2017, 07:29 AM
Congrats Bama.

chevynut
04-02-2017, 09:14 AM
I personally sometimes think red is overdone on these cars :p, but that sure looks like some nice paint work. I like the fact that it's painted inside and out too like a new car is. It is BC/CC or single stage paint...I assume the latter? Do guys ever paint the inside with BC/CC too? I usually see the inside masked off for some reason and I'd thought about painting the inside of mine myself before the outside gets painted.

Should be fun assembling it and it'll be a beauty when done. Congrats on the find!

BamaNomad
04-02-2017, 09:49 PM
Thanks guys. I spent today washing the dust off, and polishing off the little spots/scuffs that were there, and after all that I'm even happier about the paint. It seems to be an awesome paint job performed by a man who knew what he was doing! Even the bottom side is painted like the top. I tend to be more of an original guy, trying to mimic the way the factory did things, so this will be a little bit different for me.. and hopefully I can do it justice. I also painted the backside of the rechromed bumpers and tomorrow will clean those up and apply some wax so they will preserve until I install them. I want to totally paint the engine and trans (thinking a silver metallic since the entire engine compartment is RED). I also have an unpolished AutoRad radiator system to install - although I might have to polish that too to keep up with the paintwork.. :) I have a not too small amount of work to do before I install the body on the chassis, and after that I'm going to have some questions about the *best order* to install wiring, dash components, lights, assemblies, and stainless/brightwork... The color I was told is 'Super Red' - a color used in the early 2000's on Chevy's smaller vehicles. PPG paint was used; the owner told me it was base clear, but really it looks like a single stage to me, although the painter may have mixed in some additional clear on the top coats. I'm hoping that the original red/black interior materials I have will work with this color. If it doesn't I'll be trying to come up with something compatible in an original-appearing pattern.

BamaNomad
04-02-2017, 09:53 PM
What an awesome find! You ought to have a much more fun build just bolting parts together and not having to mess with body any paint work. The PO sure picked the right color red. It ought to be a beautiful car when done.

Yes; having the bodywork/paint FINISHED was my primary attraction to this car... I think I purchased a 'paint job', and got a Nomad tossed into the deal~ In my area of North Alabama, finding a decent painter that follows thru on his commitment, and doesn't specialize in emptying the owner's pocket book is a real challenge... which is why my first '57 Nomad is sitting in MY shop incomplete...

Custer55
04-03-2017, 09:53 AM
That's a great looking project. Nice to have one with a nice paint job already done. I look forward to seeing your progress updates!!
Brian

markm
04-03-2017, 10:02 AM
great start, a lot of hard work done.

567chevys
04-03-2017, 10:51 AM
I like it , A really good start .
post some pictures as you put it together.

Thanks Sid

Rustaddict
04-05-2017, 05:07 AM
Yes; having the bodywork/paint FINISHED was my primary attraction to this car... I think I purchased a 'paint job', and got a Nomad tossed into the deal~ In my area of North Alabama, finding a decent painter that follows thru on his commitment, and doesn't specialize in emptying the owner's pocket book is a real challenge... which is why my first '57 Nomad is sitting in MY shop incomplete...

It ain't just Alabama. That is pretty much everywhere you look.

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 08:48 AM
After getting the car 'kit' home on Saturday, washing it etc on Sunday, prepping and rewrapping the rechromed bumper parts, since then I've been going thru the boxes of parts, pulling out the first of the parts I need to clean up and paint (restore) for installation; things like hood latches since I had to tie down the hood on the trip home.. :)

Yesterday I ordered a few parts I know I will need soon (hood bumpers front and side, body mount kit with hardware, etc). I ordered from Ecklers (via phone) so I got my 10% discount and a break on the shipping. I've been going thru a list of the 'necessary' things I must do prior to mounting the body on the chassis which include:
1) Installing the engine/trans back on the frame so I drill the holes for the transmission support.
2) I also want to paint the engine/trans before the final installation; I'm thinking a silver metallic single stage since the entire engine compmt is red..?
3) Measuring the space between the C4 differential and the 'modified' spare tire well (now a storage compmt) to determine how much space I would have for a custom tank. Appears so far that I have a space approached 10" x 12" x 34" or so... which would accommodate 15 gallons or so, but I'll need to have one built to that shape/size if I don't want to modify the 'finished floor' of the Nomad. The actual design/fabrication should probably wait until the body is mounted for the best measurements and design.
4) I need to work out the how the fuel line(s) would run up the chassis from the fuel tank... and run them before mounting the body.
5) Park brake cables; I tentatively plan on using the existing pull handle mechanism for the '57 body and of course the C4 rear park brake assembly but I'm 'blank' on the details..

Any help/suggestions for the park brake actuation cables and the fuel line/tank issues are very welcome .. :)

Here are some photos after it reached my garage.. (the body was put back on the original-unrestored chassis after it was painted).. I'll post a few pix of the NEW chassis next.

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 09:41 AM
This is the Billy Dawson chassis that will go under the car after I accomplish a few more necessary tasks.. The plan for the drivetrain is LS1/4L60 driving the 3.08 posi rear... The wheels/tires shown on the chassis are from a '90 ZR1 and are too wide for the Nomad...

chevynut
04-05-2017, 10:06 AM
Any idea how much front and rear suspension drop that chassis has? Where does the rear swaybar mount?

Custer55
04-05-2017, 10:30 AM
Bama,
I can't help you with the gas tank issues as my 2 door sedan is completely different than a Nomad in that area. From my experience fitting the body to the frame though, I had the body on and off the new frame several times to get everything to fit properly and run the parking brake cables. The 4 post lift I built was worth the time and money it cost many times over during that process. I don't know how you plan to do that on yours but like I said I am glad I took the time to build my lift as it saved a bunch of time in the long run.
The bottom of your Nomad looks great by the way. Hopefully you won't need to do much to make the body fit on the frame.
Brian

chevynut
04-05-2017, 10:51 AM
A Nomad/wagon has a lot more room under the cargo area than a sedan/HT does under the trunk if the spare tire well is removed. The cargo floor is a lot higher than the trunk floor. I don't know what mods were done to the spare tire well since you didn't post pics of that. The swaybar is also a consideration if it's up in that area. I personally don't think cutting more out of it and re-painting that area would be a big deal, since it's all covered anyhow....but if you're like me.... :) :p :D

Newman used to use the stock e-brake setup and even had a cable kit for his frames that routed like stock. I'm using Lokar sheathed cables with a foot-style Lokar e-brake pedal.

By the way, your tires are set inboard too far, your track is too narrow, and your roll center is too high on that stock frame. :D

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 06:44 PM
Bama,
I can't help you with the gas tank issues as my 2 door sedan is completely different than a Nomad in that area. From my experience fitting the body to the frame though, I had the body on and off the new frame several times to get everything to fit properly and run the parking brake cables. The 4 post lift I built was worth the time and money it cost many times over during that process. I don't know how you plan to do that on yours but like I said I am glad I took the time to build my lift as it saved a bunch of time in the long run.
The bottom of your Nomad looks great by the way. Hopefully you won't need to do much to make the body fit on the frame.
Brian

The chassis was *designed* for the Trifive stock mounts, so there should not be significant issues, but the IRS takes up more space than the stock differential, so using a stock wagon fuel tank is out. Billy recommends cutting out the stock spare tire well, and covering with a flat panel; he uses the large 30 gal Rick's tank and the mounts for that are mounted on his chassis already. I've often regretted buying a 4-post lift rather than a 2 post, but at the time I was double-stacking two corvettes so it solved a problem at that time. I've thought about putting a 2-post in this garage, but... I hate to get into cutting up yr old concrete to pour a thick base for it... In the past I've accomplished several body lifts/installs single-handedly without a lift at all... so I will probably take that slower approach. I don't really want to further hack on this beautiful body... :).. so if I can find a way to make a smaller tank fit, I will do so. Attached is a photo of the 'storage bin' that replaced the spare tire well by the previous owner/fabricator.

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 06:52 PM
A Nomad/wagon has a lot more room under the cargo area than a sedan/HT does under the trunk if the spare tire well is removed. The cargo floor is a lot higher than the trunk floor. I don't know what mods were done to the spare tire well since you didn't post pics of that. The swaybar is also a consideration if it's up in that area. I personally don't think cutting more out of it and re-painting that area would be a big deal, since it's all covered anyhow....but if you're like me.... :) :p :D

Newman used to use the stock e-brake setup and even had a cable kit for his frames that routed like stock. I'm using Lokar sheathed cables with a foot-style Lokar e-brake pedal.

By the way, your tires are set inboard too far, your track is too narrow, and your roll center is too high on that stock frame. :D

I just posted a photo of the 'modified storage compt' that replaced the spare tire well. I have the space between that and the IRS to place a custom tank. Estimating the rectangular space available ... 10" x 12" x 34" or so; a tank that size would hold 15-16 gallons which should be sufficient. There's a local fabricator who has made custom tanks for a few fellas, so I will probably talk to him about doing something for this.

Billy Dawson uses the Lokar sheathed cables also for his park brake, as did a friend in my area who is building a '56 on an AME chassis, but I'd like to stay as 'stock as possible on the 'user interfaces' so I will try to work out something. Billy doesn't include rear sway bars on his chassis as he thinks they aren't needed; I'm undecided about that especially with the Nomad roof/glass at the rear of the car. His frame is very rigid but...?

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 06:55 PM
Any idea how much front and rear suspension drop that chassis has? Where does the rear swaybar mount?

Billy doesn't include rear sway bars with his chassis. No idea about 'front/rear susp drop... as I'm unsure exactly what you are asking. If you will define the term as you are using them, I'll try to answer? His frames are designed to get the c.g. as low as possible (his statement)...

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
04-05-2017, 07:48 PM
What is your plan for the Battery location? That custom compartment looks like it would hold a plenty big tank. The sloped base should help with fuel slosh issues on hard take offs on low fuel.

BamaNomad
04-05-2017, 09:59 PM
What is your plan for the Battery location? That custom compartment looks like it would hold a plenty big tank. The sloped base should help with fuel slosh issues on hard take offs on low fuel.

Are you thinking 'fuel bladder inside the 'storage compartment? :)

There should be almost an equivalent amount of space between that compartment and the IRS.. that was what I'd measured for those measures I provided.

Re battery: Perhaps the best solution is to add a battery box behind the RHS rear tire (opening into the cargo space)?? At least that's what I've been thinking, but I do not have a design in mind ... just an upholstered cover to cover it all up on the inner fender well. If anyone has a design for a box to go in that space, I'd love to see it...

rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
04-06-2017, 05:56 AM
Joe Lutz from Hotrod dynamics was offering one. He built it during the nomad build. The sweet dark blue one for Dan.

chevynut
04-06-2017, 09:44 AM
Billy doesn't include rear sway bars with his chassis.

Seriously? Seems like the wrong thing to do. Any idea why he thinks a rear swaybar is not necessary? Every modern car I know of has one. Every C4 Corvette had one.


No idea about 'front/rear susp drop... as I'm unsure exactly what you are asking. If you will define the term as you are using them, I'll try to answer?

With the front and rear suspensions set at ride height, where are the axle centerlines relative to where the stock axle centerlines would be? That's what I mean by suspension drop. My frames have a 3" front suspension drop (2" is optional) and a 2" rear suspension drop.


His frames are designed to get the c.g. as low as possible (his statement)...

The way that's done is to lower the car as much as possible. That's why I asked the question about suspension drop. It's also about stance, if highest performance isn't what you're looking for.

chevynut
04-06-2017, 09:52 AM
Estimating the rectangular space available ... 10" x 12" x 34" or so; a tank that size would hold 15-16 gallons which should be sufficient.

Think about where you plan to run your exhaust before you take up all the space between frame rails. Also, you can go below the bottom of the frame some without it being visible from the rear of the car. Mine is 1.5" below the frame and you can't see it from behind unless you almost lay on the floor. :) The bottom of my bumper is even with the bottom of the frame. I wouldn't hesitate to go even 3" or so below the frame.

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chevynut
04-06-2017, 09:56 AM
Perhaps the best solution is to add a battery box behind the RHS rear tire (opening into the cargo space)?? At least that's what I've been thinking, but I do not have a design in mind ... just an upholstered cover to cover it all up on the inner fender well. If anyone has a design for a box to go in that space, I'd love to see it...

Mine is a drop-down stainless battery box that's behind the right tire. It doesn't open to the interior of the car as I didn't want a door on the wheelwell. I added two jumper posts near the battery, accessible from below the car, as well as a battery cut-off switch. I don't plan to have to access the battery regularly.

BamaNomad
04-06-2017, 11:24 AM
Joe Lutz from Hotrod dynamics was offering one. He built it during the nomad build. The sweet dark blue one for Dan.

I just took a look at HotRodDynamics website and didn't find such a product..? I'll take another cruise thru that build to see what he did (if he had any details). If I can find something to BUY which minimizes the time I have to put into it, I'd prefer to go that way as I'm anxious to get this car going.. :)

BamaNomad
04-06-2017, 11:34 AM
Seriously? Seems like the wrong thing to do. Any idea why he thinks a rear swaybar is not necessary? Every modern car I know of has one. Every C4 Corvette had one.

With the front and rear suspensions set at ride height, where are the axle centerlines relative to where the stock axle centerlines would be? That's what I mean by suspension drop. My frames have a 3" front suspension drop (2" is optional) and a 2" rear suspension drop.

The way that's done is to lower the car as much as possible. That's why I asked the question about suspension drop. It's also about stance, if highest performance isn't what you're looking for.

I'm sure I asked Billy about that in one of our myriad of discussions before I bit the bullet and puchased his chassis, but I'm not recalling specifics of his response right now. I'll ask him again when I get a chance.

Ok, now I'm following you re the 'susp drop'.. Basically you are referring to the designed-in static position of the half shafts wrt to the axle centerline in the vertical plane? I believe you are saying that with a 2" lower position of the wheel end of the axle at 'static' will result in the halfshafts remaining closest to 'zero' (parallel) given the dynamics of movement. and that sounds 'right' to me. I should crawl under one of my ZR1's and check what chevy's static position was... ? but many corvette owners use the adjustment capability to lower their cars, which would change the static position of the half shafts nearer to 'parallel', but probably when they do that, they do so along iwth a stiffening of the suspension which further limits the up-down movement of the halfshafts dynamically.

PS. I have/had the same impression about the lack of a rear sway bar, but the thing that swayed me to his chassis is actually driving one of his tri-fives with his chassis... Was absolutely the best driving/riding Trifive I've ever ridden in or driven, and compares favorably in ride with even higher end late model sedans (Cadillac, Lincoln, BMW, etc).

BamaNomad
04-06-2017, 11:38 AM
Mine is a drop-down stainless battery box that's behind the right tire. It doesn't open to the interior of the car as I didn't want a door on the wheelwell. I added two jumper posts near the battery, accessible from below the car, as well as a battery cut-off switch. I don't plan to have to access the battery regularly.

CN: I totally understand (and agree with the reasons for your choice), with the only 'con' being access to the battery when/if you ever need to; your addition of jumper posts alleviates that issue, but doesn't eliminate it.

Did you design/build your own box? OR is that something I could find and quickly implement in my car?? I'd appreciate any details/photos/etc you are willing to provide as I too agree it is advantageous to keep the battery out of the passenger compartment.

chevynut
04-06-2017, 11:54 AM
I designed and built the mount but the box is something you can buy. You can also buy the jumper lugs. Chuck Williams (Sshamu) on the other site copied my design on his 56 Nomad with no problem. I made it out of steel rod, but it could be made differently. I added one small tab to the front end at the top and that is welded to my tub.....don't think it really needed to be there but it does reinforce it better. My lower flap comes off with DZUS fasteners to make access easier, but it may be more than you want to mess with. It may work without that too.

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rockytopper R.I.P 5-13-2017
04-06-2017, 12:12 PM
I just took a look at HotRodDynamics website and didn't find such a product..? I'll take another cruise thru that build to see what he did (if he had any details). If I can find something to BUY which minimizes the time I have to put into it, I'd prefer to go that way as I'm anxious to get this car going.. :)
He actually offered to sale them during the build not sure what page it is a long one lol.

55 Rescue Dog
04-06-2017, 04:59 PM
Seriously? Seems like the wrong thing to do. Any idea why he thinks a rear swaybar is not necessary? Every modern car I know of has one. Every C4 Corvette had one.



With the front and rear suspensions set at ride height, where are the axle centerlines relative to where the stock axle centerlines would be? That's what I mean by suspension drop. My frames have a 3" front suspension drop (2" is optional) and a 2" rear suspension drop.



The way that's done is to lower the car as much as possible. That's why I asked the question about suspension drop. It's also about stance, if highest performance isn't what you're looking for.
Did you forget the C7 does NOT have a rear sway bar, and there are many other vehicles that don't for some reason. What size sway bar does NASCAR use in the rear?

Custer55
04-06-2017, 06:43 PM
Did you forget the C7 does NOT have a rear sway bar, and there are many other vehicles that don't for some reason. What size sway bar does NASCAR use in the rear?

Pretty sure Nascar stopped allowing rear sway bars with the Gen 6 car design, so it's not that they don't use them because they don't work.

BamaNomad
04-06-2017, 10:50 PM
If the frame structure is 'rigid enough' to prevent flex, then having a large sway bar on the front will prevent the entire car from 'swaying'... ie. one end of the cannot sway without the other swaying.. :) and that may be Billy's reasoning as well; he has stated that he can jack up one corner and raise 3 tires off the ground.

BamaNomad
04-06-2017, 10:59 PM
CN: Your battery box design looks great.. (NASA-like).. :) but I don't think I could afford to have someone else make one, and it would take me 'forever' to make it.. (My skills are not up to yours!)..

I hear people talk about a 'drop down' battery box, but hadn't seen one.. so a search on ebay comes up with one that looks promising and available from several sellers (not sure who designs/fabs it?)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speedway-Drop-Out-Polished-Stainless-Steel-Battery-Box-10-5x7x8-Inch-/131496211000?hash=item1e9dc8f238:g:Sq4AAOSw3ydVu80 h&vxp=mtr

What do you folks think about this one?

chevynut
04-07-2017, 06:53 AM
Did you forget the C7 does NOT have a rear sway bar,

Did you forget we're talking about a C4 suspension, not a C7? And only the base model C7 doesn't have a swaybar, the Z51, Z06/7 and GS performance models do. A lot of guys are adding the Z51 swaybars to their non-Z51 cars and reporting much better handling.

Of course it only matters if you're looking for best performance, not on a grocery getter/cruiser.

http://www.stingrayforums.com/forum/stingray-how-s-guides/9157-adding-sway-bar-s-base-c7-parts-list-photo.html

" I can now say from experience that the car is far more solid with a rear bar installed than with nothing in the rear. It feels much more controlled accelerating out of a turn. The Z51 front bar is only .079 larger in diameter than the base. I think it would be hard to detect any difference between having a 26 mm or 28 mm front bar. Whatever your point of view is on this issue I can say that based on driving the the car with and without a rear sway bar (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=rear%2Bsway%2Bbar) the car has more stability with the rear bar."

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-tech-performance/3923094-base-model-stingray-rear-sway-bar-not-z51-not-z06.html

"I put the Z51 sway bar "set" on my base '14. Made a BIG difference in handling with no change in ride. I then added the Z51 shocks which stiffened and, frankly, improved the ride from my perspective, as well as improving the handling (less roll). I changed out the rear sway on my '15 Z51 to the 'mag' sway which took out a bit more roll. All are essential mods for me."

chevynut
04-07-2017, 06:55 AM
I hear people talk about a 'drop down' battery box, but hadn't seen one.. so a search on ebay comes up with one that looks promising and available from several sellers (not sure who designs/fabs it?)...
What do you folks think about this one?

Bamanomad, that's the one I used....got it from Speedway. Seems to be well built and looks good. It's all stainless.

BamaNomad
04-07-2017, 07:04 AM
Bamanomad, that's the one I used....got it from Speedway. Seems to be well built and looks good. It's all stainless.

So your other custom designed hardware was to mount that box?? Do you think there is a more simple way to mount it? or ?? What issues were you addressing with your custom mount design?

chevynut
04-07-2017, 07:31 AM
So your other custom designed hardware was to mount that box?? Do you think there is a more simple way to mount it? or ?? What issues were you addressing with your custom mount design?

Yes, as I said above the box was purchased and I made the mount for it. I didn't want to mount it to the tub so I designed the mount so I didn't have to have any fasteners to the tub. The plate with the jumper lugs is what supports the box from tipping out. The battery is heavy, so the mount needs to be strong. Since I mocked it up in the pics, I added one nut on the front upper corner and plan to weld a small tab to the tub to support that end. It's very strong as is....I hung my body on it...but I want to be sure it doesn't vibrate and break.

I chose to make it out of 3/8" steel rod but it could be made out of something else like a flat plate bolted to the body brace with spacers, or with a jog to clear the tub....my tubs are wider than stock. I would support it with a diagonal brace where my jumper lugs are.

chevynut
04-07-2017, 12:13 PM
Here's how Chuck did it after I showed him my pics. I didn't like mounting it bridging the frame and the body together, but maybe it's not a big deal. He used the same box and made the mount out of rod like I did.

https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119565&page=2

MadMooks
04-07-2017, 06:59 PM
Today I went to Nashville, TN and completed purchase of another Nomad (57) project, then trailered it home.. This is a Nomad 'kit', but the main attraction to me is that the body work and paint have been completed (a few years ago), but the owner ran into $$ difficulty and didn't complete it. The bodywork and paint are nicely done (and certainly cured by now).. :) The body is sitting on the original frame again, barely bolted on and it will come back off and go onto my Corvette Corrections chassis. I will also use the LS1/4L60 trans combo and all the other prepared/restored parts which I'd completed for my other '57 Nomad (bodywork/paint NOT complete as yet). Attached are some photos of the car as I purchased it... I'll post more photos here as I prepare the parts and begin assemblying the car... PS. This is an early Nov '56 LA assembly, spent some time in southern Calif, then went to Texas in the 80's.. and to Nashville TN about 10 yrs ago. Originally was a sierrra gold/adobe beige car before the repaint...

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congrats Bama! looks like a good start. gonna be fun putting trim on that paint, gonna really pop. good luck with her

BamaNomad
04-07-2017, 09:35 PM
congrats Bama! looks like a good start. gonna be fun putting trim on that paint, gonna really pop. good luck with her

Thanks Mike.. I'm liking it more and more each time I touch it.. :) Today I put insurance on it, installed rubber grommets between the fenders and hood, and sorted and cleaned some parts and primed for painting so I can attach the hood latch and associated hardware. I will have to remove the front clip before I lift the body up for frame replacement, so the front clip comes off and will go back on asap after. I'm planning on leaving the doors and tailgate installed for the lift (they are empty so weight is minimal and they are perfectly adjusted. I might add the weatherstrip on those parts for additional protection during the lift, although with the rigidity of a Nomad body I don't expect any problem in that regards.

PS. The liftgate is very nice - no pitting and has never been rechromed, but the top of the frame is torqued a bit so it will be coming to you or somewhere to get straightened and rechromed... :)

BamaNomad
04-07-2017, 09:38 PM
Here's how Chuck did it after I showed him my pics. I didn't like mounting it bridging the frame and the body together, but maybe it's not a big deal. He used the same box and made the mount out of rod like I did.


Is there sufficient room under the fender for the battery in the box to swing out and down enough to get to it? I've never seen one of these in action, but I'm imagining that it must have to move OUT away from the frame before it can move down... is that correct?

chevynut
04-08-2017, 05:52 AM
The box moves straight down. If you look at the picture you can see the slides. It can either re-latch in a lower position or come all the way out.

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww296/BIGCHEVY3600/BATTERY%20BOX%20AND%20DRIVE%20SHAFT/DropdownboxDropped.jpg

BamaNomad
04-08-2017, 07:48 AM
Thanks CN... :) Is the box size sufficient for a choice of batteries, or does it limit you to only a single, or couple, or batteries? Is there enough room for use of a plastic battery box INSIDE the SS box??

55 Rescue Dog
04-08-2017, 02:25 PM
I designed and built the mount but the box is something you can buy. You can also buy the jumper lugs. Chuck Williams (Sshamu) on the other site copied my design on his 56 Nomad with no problem. I made it out of steel rod, but it could be made differently. I added one small tab to the front end at the top and that is welded to my tub.....don't think it really needed to be there but it does reinforce it better. My lower flap comes off with DZUS fasteners to make access easier, but it may be more than you want to mess with. It may work without that too.

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The battery disconnect seems to be in an awkward spot. Do you have to lay on the ground to reach it in an emergency?

chevynut
04-08-2017, 02:50 PM
Thanks CN... :) Is the box size sufficient for a choice of batteries, or does it limit you to only a single, or couple, or batteries? Is there enough room for use of a plastic battery box INSIDE the SS box??
InfoThis dropout battery box allows you to put your battery somewhere out of the way while still maintaining access. The box normally locks in the up position or it also drops down and locks 4-1/4" lower if needed. You can also drop the box completely out for maintenance.

Accepts batteries up to 10-1/2" long, 7" wide, and 8" tall.

BamaNomad
04-08-2017, 08:52 PM
RD? The battery disconnect should be as close as possible to the battery I would think? Where would you suggest the disconnect be placed which would be more convenient on a Nomad or Wagon with the battery located in that location?

55 Rescue Dog
04-09-2017, 05:39 AM
RD? The battery disconnect should be as close as possible to the battery I would think? Where would you suggest the disconnect be placed which would be more convenient on a Nomad or Wagon with the battery located in that location?
I plan on putting my disconnect under, or near the drivers seat within easy reach connected to the ground cable. Another way is a latching solenoid disconnect connected to a toggle switch.

BamaNomad
04-09-2017, 09:49 AM
RD said: "Another way is a latching solenoid disconnect connected to a toggle switch."

I think I like this approach better than your first idea.... but there may be some disadvantages to this approach that I haven't thought of as yet...?

chevynut
04-10-2017, 09:25 AM
I think you need to decide what you want the battery cutoff switch for. If it's for emergencies, such as on a race car, it should be readily accessible by either the driver or a safety crew. If it's for theft prevention, it should be hidden. If it's just for disconnecting the battery at car shows, it can be anywhere you want it.

I see no difference between putting the disconnect in the positive wire or putting it in the negative wire. The battery doesn't know which terminal is positive or negative and it doesn't matter. And I think the switch should be as close to the battery as possible. If you run a long cable to the switch, you risk it shorting out with no way to disconnect it.

Finally, why would you use the very thing you're trying to turn off as a power source to turn it off? Once it's turned off, how do you turn it back on? If there's a hot wire running from the battery to the toggle switch, then it's not really a battery disconnect. To me, a battery disconnect has to remove all electrical power from the vehicle.

BamaNomad
04-14-2017, 06:07 AM
I'm thinking seriously about that Speedway 'drop out battery box' and adding a disconnect switch probably near to it as CN did. I'm also thinking of several other things that I have questions/concerns about prior to putting the body on the new frame.
1) Connection and routing of Park Brake. Unless I come up with some reason not to, I'm leaning towards retaining the stock '57 pull handle for the emerg/park brake, running the cable down the LH side frame rails and connecting to the stock rear cables for the C4, although it would be good to have the rear RH parkbrake cable to be longer and tailorable to run to the LH side frame rail. Any help, suggestions, or issues you might know of would be appreciated.
2) Fuel line: LS1 engine, keeping it as stock as possible. Do I need to run feed/return fuel lines all the way to the engine, or incorporate a Regulator/filter on the frame rail somewhere near to the fuel tank?
3) Transmission Shifter: Using the stock 4L60E behind the LS1 (from a 2001 Z28). I'd prefer to keep the trans shifter on the column since I'm retaining the '57 bench seat. I also would *prefer* using a tilt column (IDIDIT or Flaming River or ??). Any enlightenment you guys can provide on the issues of any of this would be much appreciated!

I would like to provide mounting points for any items needing attachment to the frame prior to dropping the body on the frame...

Any/all input appreciated.

Custer55
04-14-2017, 06:41 AM
Bama, If you check out my build thread you can see how I used the stock pull lever in the car combined with Lokar cables to the rear parking brakes.

chevynut
04-14-2017, 07:52 AM
1) Unless I come up with some reason not to, I'm leaning towards retaining the stock '57 pull handle for the emerg/park brake, running the cable down the LH side frame rails and connecting to the stock rear cables for the C4, although it would be good to have the rear RH parkbrake cable to be longer and tailorable to run to the LH side frame rail. Any help, suggestions, or issues you might know of would be appreciated.

Bamanomad, I personally wouldn't futz with the stock C4 e-brake cables. I ditched mine and both cables run down the driver's side rail to the Lokar block that I put on top of the frame. The driver's side cable is straightforward and goes around the inside of the hump to the e-brake lever on the caliper. Lokar makes a clevis for that purpose. The passenger side cable runs to the same place as the driver's side on the front of the driver's side frame hump, but then goes across under the body on the almost vertical sheetmetal behind the rear seat to the passenger side where it then goes to the caliper. I mocked it up before removing the body from frame for paint and it seemed to work well that way.

The only issue routing this way is that you don't get mechanical advantage for the hand lever like Custer55's solution does. I like the clean look of the way I did it with no cables under the frame, but if you're using the hand lever you probably need some way to increase pull force.

BamaNomad
04-14-2017, 02:08 PM
Bama, If you check out my build thread you can see how I used the stock pull lever in the car combined with Lokar cables to the rear parking brakes.

Brian, just about ALL my online time today was going thru about half your build thread (up to the point of your doing the hand brake).. I LOVE what you did.. basically designing/building your own version of a C4 custom frame for your '55... your work is excellent; I'm not even in the same ballpark as you and CN are re fabricating/welding! :) (which is why I bought a 'pre-made' chassis, and am having issues even wtih simple add ons.. :)

I will take the time later to go thru the remainder of your build thread! WAY TO GO!! :)

and I like the way you did your handbrake using the stock trifive pull handle; I'd already figured I'd need some mechanical advantage similar to the original, and I see you retained that mechanical advantage (or even improved it?) with your design. I need to do something similar but try to keep the overall size of the mechanism smaller and perhaps mount it vertical along the inside of the frame rail - but I'll be able to see where I have the room once I get the body on the frame! Thanks for your note that spurred me to go look for your build thread!

BamaNomad
04-14-2017, 02:11 PM
Agreed CN... just about all the folks using modified rear disk brakes do the same/similar arrangement with the Lokar park brake setup, including you, Brian (Custer), and my local friend who has the AME chassis. It will probably save me more than $150 of trouble.. :)
I also agree re the mechanical advantage needed with the stock pull handle (to wit, the way the factory did it)...

Custer55
04-14-2017, 03:40 PM
Brian, just about ALL my online time today was going thru about half your build thread (up to the point of your doing the hand brake).. I LOVE what you did.. basically designing/building your own version of a C4 custom frame for your '55... your work is excellent; I'm not even in the same ballpark as you and CN are re fabricating/welding! :) (which is why I bought a 'pre-made' chassis, and am having issues even wtih simple add ons.. :)

I will take the time later to go thru the remainder of your build thread! WAY TO GO!! :)



and I like the way you did your handbrake using the stock trifive pull handle; I'd already figured I'd need some mechanical advantage similar to the original, and I see you retained that mechanical advantage (or even improved it?) with your design. I need to do something similar but try to keep the overall size of the mechanism smaller and perhaps mount it vertical along the inside of the frame rail - but I'll be able to see where I have the room once I get the body on the frame! Thanks for your note that spurred me to go look for your build thread!

Thanks for the kind words :) My whole build was a learning process as well, you never know what you can do until you try!!!
My brake lever I made just maintained the stock mechanical advantage ratio. The one thing I would do differently is put the mounting bracket just slightly lower because it is pretty tight to the floor pan with the body on the frame. Not to much lower though as it would get to close to the exhaust if it was much lower. I'm not sure how it would work to put the lever on the side of the frame though. You could make a shorter lever with the same ratio but you may not get enough travel to the rear cables then. I never tried to figure it out that way to see if it would work or not. Using the Lokar, or similar lever in the car is always an option too. I did mine to retain the original lever to save money and time as much as anything.
Good Luck with yours whatever you decide to do.
Brian

chevynut
04-14-2017, 03:53 PM
Brian, did you think about using a block and tackle type arrangement for mechanical advantage? Seems like it would be relatively simple with small pulleys and would negate the need for a lever.

55 Rescue Dog
04-14-2017, 04:03 PM
I know a legal effective parking/E brake is required in some states with inspections and might be good to have, but I've had many cars over the years that can barely keep a car from rolling on level ground, including a C2, C3, and my current C5 Corvette. Most auto trans cars have never even had them operated. I went with a simpler effective approach for holding my car when needed with a $39 hydraulic park lock on the front brakes in addition to the rear in gear when the engine is off. I can apply 800psi of force on the front brakes, and the car is not going anywhere. The only time I have ever needed an actual emergency brake was on my 1930 Model A with mechanical brakes, when the clevis fell out of the brake pedal rod. I could have slowed down faster dragging my feet.

BamaNomad
04-14-2017, 05:02 PM
My friend here in town building a '56 HT on an AME chassis bought an aftermarket Camaro ('69) foot operated park brake mechanism and used that with the rear from Lokar (are you fellas did)...

Custer55
04-15-2017, 06:46 AM
Brian, did you think about using a block and tackle type arrangement for mechanical advantage? Seems like it would be relatively simple with small pulleys and would negate the need for a lever.

I did not even think about doing it that way, but that would be another good option. Not being and engineer I figured if I just replicated the stock system lever ratio in a different location due to my frame center section it would work fine. The location I put mine also was dictated in large part by the length of the stock front cable because I didn't want to have to shorten or lengthen it. It actually works much better than the stock parking brakes ever did. When I would set it in our driveway where there is a slight incline with the stock set up the car would not stay put (probably needed some adjustment) but with the new set up with Corvette caliper parking set up it won't budge so I am happy with how it works now. For me it was a quick simple solution and at the time that is what I needed!!
Brian

Custer55
04-15-2017, 06:53 AM
My friend here in town building a '56 HT on an AME chassis bought an aftermarket Camaro ('69) foot operated park brake mechanism and used that with the rear from Lokar (are you fellas did)...

That looks like a good option as well. Another reason I didn't use something like that besides the cost was my controller for my Dakota Digital dash is located just above the vent in that area and I didn't want to do anything that would require me to move that.
Brian

chevynut
04-15-2017, 08:05 AM
Custer55, do you know offhand what your lever ratio actually is?

Here's my Lokar e-brake pedal in place. It gets a little crowded up there with the Raingear and my brake bellcrank:

7088

Custer55
04-15-2017, 08:56 AM
Maybe 4 to 1 to 5 to 1 range. I'll measure it on the original lever if I can find it. My car is to low to crawl underneath!! If you look at page 9 & 10 on my build thread I have a picture of the original lever and the one I made side by side.
Brian

BamaNomad
04-19-2017, 08:38 AM
I want to put my 'newest' 57 Nomad on the Corvette Corrections Chassis soon, but I need tires/wheels that I KNOW will work before I do, so I can at least roll the assembly around in my shop. The chassis has an extra set of 1990 ZR1 wheels on it now, which I'm sure are too wide for the body, and the rear tires are VERY close to the chassis (see photo). Measured backspace for those wheels/tires are ~ 7.5".

I borrowed a set of a friend's C5 speedline wheels yesterday and tried them today and found out they have too much backspace. I *thought* he had a set of 17x8.5 wheels which I thought *might* work, but I found out differently. Apparently the std C5 wheels are all the same: 17x8.5x58mm OS for front and 18x9.5x65mm OS for the rear. The rear C5 tires/wheels have a backspace ~ 8.25", and the fronts have a backspace close to the same as the rear C4 ZR1 wheels (~7.5"). So C5 wheels are OUT.. (I had originally hoped to use the Speedline magnesium wheels on my chassis... :(

I got under the rear of the Nomad and measured across the cargo box (ie. the inner measure of the wheelwell) just behind the hump up and measured 46.5" (see Photo), which basically is the same as Billy Dawson designed his frame (46.5"), so that makes sense... :)

I think the Inside of my final wheels/tires should be ~ an inch from the frame/body .. so for the chassis I have, I need rear wheels/tires with a backspace no greater than ~6.5". I don't want to 'push' the size close to either the inside or outside constraints, even if I have to go with more narrow wheels/tires.

I'm currently looking at the set of Ridler 695 wheels (17x7 front and 17x8 rear) which have less than 5" backspace - including the tires - on the rear.

Is that rear wheel going to put me too close to the body since the clearance on the inside will be ~ 2.5 - 3"...?

Are 17x7 wheels (zero OS) going to give me a problem on the front with the C4 corvette suspension?

Custer55
04-19-2017, 11:54 AM
I'm currently looking at the set of Ridler 695 wheels (17x7 front and 17x8 rear) which have less than 5" backspace - including the tires - on the rear.

Is that rear wheel going to put me too close to the body since the clearance on the inside will be ~ 2.5 - 3"...?

Are 17x7 wheels (zero OS) going to give me a problem on the front with the C4 corvette suspension?

From my experience I don't think either one of those will work for you. On the rear of mine the offset with the 3/16 spacer is 52mm (7.25 BS) and on the front the offset is the stock (for 90 Vette) 56mm (7.4375 BS). Another way to look at it is the front space of the wheels. (mounting surface to the outside edge of the wheel) On the back of mine It is 3.25", on the front it is 3.06" so I think you need to be close to that to have decent clearance to the outside wheel wells and fenders. Assuming you have the 88 and up suspension. If you like the look of C5, C6 and C7 wheels there is sellers on Ebay selling replica wheels with offsets and widths that will work with C4 Corvettes. If you just need a cheap set of wheels and tires to get things set up 93 to 94 and up Camaro and Firebird will work well and you can probably find a set of those fairly cheap. I used 1995 Trans Am wheels and tires to set up mine. I had an extra set of 4 I bought for $200. with tires that were in pretty good shape yet.
Brian

BamaNomad
04-19-2017, 02:16 PM
Thanks Brian... I had a fear that would be true due to the big clearance on the inside for those wheels/tires, but if I understood correctly, you are running 9.5" wide 90 Corvette wheels all the way around without issues? I'm not sure I followed your explanation re the spacer.. if you have to run a 3/16" spacer, then that moves the wheel 3/16" farther outside, effectively reducing the 'backspace of the wheels' ? Is the stock offset for the 90 (9.5" wheels) 56 mm (which is 2.2")?? Which means the factory 'backspace' for those wheels would be (5" + 2.2") or 7.2" .. OK.. that's basically what you said.. so with the spacer you reduced the factory backspace of 7.2" by 3/16" achieving around 7" backspace? and that works on the back for you? and the factory 7.2 BS works for you on the front? How much clearance do you have on the backside and frontside of those wheels??

and Yes, I have post-1988 C4 parts...

Custer55
04-19-2017, 02:30 PM
Thanks Brian... I had a fear that would be true due to the big clearance on the inside for those wheels/tires, but if I understood correctly, you are running 9.5" wide 90 Corvette wheels all the way around without issues? I'm not sure I followed your explanation re the spacer.. if you have to run a 3/16" spacer, then that moves the wheel 3/16" farther outside, effectively reducing the 'backspace of the wheels' ? Is the stock offset for the 90 (9.5" wheels) 56 mm (which is 2.2")?? Which means the factory 'backspace' for those wheels would be (5" + 2.2") or 7.2" .. OK.. that's basically what you said.. so with the spacer you reduced the factory backspace of 7.2" by 3/16" achieving around 7" backspace? and that works on the back for you? and the factory 7.2 BS works for you on the front? How much clearance do you have on the backside and frontside of those wheels??

and Yes, I have post-1988 C4 parts...

The stock backspace is 7.4375 (56mm offset) on the 9.5" Corvette wheels. (5.25 + 2.2 offset) With the 3/16" spacer in back it makes it a 7.25 backspace. I did that to center the rear tire and wheel better in the wheel well. Clearance is tight front and back with these wheels but I have not had any rubbing issues. I would go up to a 10" wheel in back and an 8 1/2" or 9" in front if I were buying new wheels (with the right offset / backspace of course)

BamaNomad
04-19-2017, 02:46 PM
I've got two sets of extra ZR1 wheels... I suppose I could use all the fronts which would be the same as you are running and at least use them to roll around in the shop til I figure out what to purchase...? .. and buy a pair of 3/16" spacers.. :) I thank you for the comments and explanation..

Are you running 275x40 tires??

55 Rescue Dog
04-19-2017, 04:03 PM
On my C4 chassis I just have some zero offset 15x7 wheels on it minus brake calipers to roll it around. Finally made good use out of the ugly ass wheels I bought years ago I can't seem to sell. 7101

Custer55
04-19-2017, 07:33 PM
I've got two sets of extra ZR1 wheels... I suppose I could use all the fronts which would be the same as you are running and at least use them to roll around in the shop til I figure out what to purchase...? .. and buy a pair of 3/16" spacers.. :) I thank you for the comments and explanation..

Are you running 275x40 tires??

I was using 275/40/17 all the way around as I borrowed the wheels and tires off of my wife's 90 Corvette. I bought my own tires now so I have 285/40/17 on the rear and 255/40/17 on the front. You may or may not need a spacer as I did on mine. Your 57 Nomad could be slightly different than my 55. I would just bolt them on as is and that will give you a good starting point to figure our what will work for you.

BamaNomad
04-19-2017, 08:29 PM
On my C4 chassis I just have some zero offset 15x7 wheels on it minus brake calipers to roll it around. Finally made good use out of the ugly ass wheels I bought years ago I can't seem to sell. 7101


RD? You actually PAID money for those wheels?? :) J/K.. but I agree with your assessment.. :)

BamaNomad
04-19-2017, 08:31 PM
Brian: I will try your suggestion tomorrow.. (ie. just bolt front 90 wheels on the rear).. Maybe that will let me get the body on the frame before I buy new tires.. :)

chevynut
04-22-2017, 08:31 AM
In your post above your use of "backspace" is confusing and incorrect. You typically don't include the tire when referring to backspacing and your example is why I prefer to talk about offset. You can measure wheel offset by measuring from both sides of the tire to the mounting surface. The offset is HALF of the difference between those measurements.

With a stock wheelwell like you have, the 46.5" is correct as you can see in my tire/wheel calculator. If you want 1" clearance to the tires you need an inside width of 48.5" mimimum. The wheelwells should be on the order of 71.5" wide. You need a minimum of maybe 1/2" clearance there too, so the outside of your tires should be at 70.5" or narrower.

To use all the available space for a tire given the above constraints, you can fit an 11" tire in the wheelwell...that's about a 275. The rear track is 59.5". Since the late C4 rearend is 63.25" wide you need a wheel offset of 48mm to get the tires in the body with those clearances. More positive offset moves the tire closer to the tub, and less offset moves it closer to the quarter panel.

BamaNomad
04-22-2017, 09:28 PM
I understand the correct definition of 'backspace', CN.. I measured to the TIRE bulge, since that was the closer point to touching my chassis (which is also why I qualified my use of the term).. :)

I DO appreciate your feedback and information... each time I go thru this stuff it makes a little bit more sense to me and I gain some confidence in determining the wheels/tires I need for my combination.. I'm getting closer, but still 'not there'.. :)

Note: I'm more interested in finding wheels and tires which will give me no issues mounting or dismounting than I am with 'maximizing' the tire size. Anything I do is going to be MUCH more tire on the ground than the 5" stock wheel size allows.. :) If I could fit a 15" wheel over the brakes, I'd be perfectly content with a 15x7 wheel with 235 tires (which is what I'm running on the '56 Nomad), BUT.. I need 17" minimum wheel dia to clear the Corvette 'big brakes', so I'm slow coming to terms with all this.. Right now I'm thinking 17x7 wheels on the front and 17x8 on the rear, OR 17x7.5 all the way around.. but I want to get the offset/backspace just right to prevent issues and have it look decent as well.

chevynut
04-23-2017, 07:45 AM
Try the wheel/tire calculator and input your car's dimensions. It will give you the clearances as you change tire sizes and wheel offset. In the rear I think if you stay around 50mm offset any tire from 275 or under will fit fine with the corresponding wheel width. As the wheel and tire get narrower you have more room to change the offset one way or other. In front you should be able to get away with close to 68" overall tire width with the C4 suspension and steering rack.

If you already know what your wheel offset is and what tire size you want, it's not hard to figure out where the tire will sit and whether you need wheel spacers or not. And remember that wheel width usually isn't the issue, tire width is. I never recommend a wheel that's wider than the tire section width.

From what you're saying I think you'd be happy with a 225 or 235 tire in front, and a 245 or 255 in the rear. Those are conservative sizes and should fit easily. Once you pick the tire size, you can figure out what wheel width and offset you need.

BamaNomad
05-09-2017, 09:28 PM
OK fellas... After much searching, calculating (using the tire/wheel calculator onsite), I *think* I've found a wheel/tire combination that will work on all 4 corners with my '57 Nomad body on my Corvette Corrections chassis ('88 and later C4 suspensions)... Tire and Wheel Information 245-45/17 tire on 17x8.5" wheel with 49 mm OS

Front wheel spacing:



Tire clearance to front lip on fender 1.56



Over all width outside to outside tire 67.86

should be 68" or less on a dropped front end



Rear wheel/tire spacing:



Tire clearance to lip on quarter
1.29



Inside tire clearance
1.56




I *almost* ordered the wheels tonight, but thought I'd better ask someone to double check my use of the calculator first.. :) Any information on Custom Wheels Marketing would be appreciated, but their ebay rating is 100%...

chevynut
05-10-2017, 07:13 AM
Which wheels did you decide to go with? Are you planning to use a 245 in front and rear? You could go with a 255 in the rear on that wheel but it may be a little narrow for a 275.

BamaNomad
05-10-2017, 08:16 AM
I checked into using the same tires all the way around, but when it's time to order, I might go smaller on the front and larger on the rear. The wheels that I found that *seemed* to work (based on the calculator) are these...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361959085047?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I would probably buy chrome or polished ones like this if I could find them, but if not, the silver painted ones work for me..

What do you think about using those wheels on all four corners?? Do you think they will work with the chassis and 57 Nomad body?

chevynut
05-10-2017, 10:35 AM
What do you think about using those wheels on all four corners?? Do you think they will work with the chassis and 57 Nomad body?

I said above ;):

"In the rear I think if you stay around 50mm offset any tire from 275 or under will fit fine with the corresponding wheel width. As the wheel and tire get narrower you have more room to change the offset one way or other. In front you should be able to get away with close to 68" overall tire width with the C4 suspension and steering rack."

The C4 hub pilot diameter is 70.1mm and those wheels are 70.7" so they should work if you like them.

Custer55
05-10-2017, 05:11 PM
Bama,
Those wheels should work well with the 88 and up C4 set up. They are the same backspace as the 8" Trans Am wheels I started out with, and I had lots of clearance to the outside wheel wells with those (probably to much). If your thinking about smaller tires on the front and bigger on back I would look at some of the websites selling tires to see what is available that will work on those wheels. Not all tire brands have the same tire size availability, so you need to find a tire you like also that will be available in the sizes you want. You could contact the ebay seller also to see if they have that same style wheel in size that would allow a larger tire in back.
Brian

BamaNomad
05-10-2017, 07:15 PM
I ordered those wheels this morning, with expectation that they will arrive before I leave for the Smokey Mountain Classics show on the 18th (so I will be here to receive/inspect/accept them).. :)

I thought about ordering the 18x9.5 wheel for the rear, but decided I'd be happier without worrying about different sized wheels; I may decide the same thing about the tires, Or I may juggle the sizes a little. The height of the 245-45/17 tires is the same as the stock tire on the 2002 Z28 (which my engine/trans came from). The Z28 used a 2.73:1 axle ratio, whereas mine is 3.08. I think it's close enough to work well, but will give me a little bit of a gear advantage.. and I may decide to move the back tires UP in size to the largest that the wheel will support, and possibly decrease the width of the front tires to the smallest recommended for the 8.5" wheels. I can't wait to get them and verify that they will 'work' with my combination; it's been worrying me and occupying a lot of my time looking at various wheels which 'might' work.. :)

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and help.. :)

I want to clean/paint the engine/trans/driveshaft, and position the trans support (and drill the holes for the support) before I put the body on the chassis, but now I hope I can concentrate on those items since the tires/wheels won't be occupying my mind.. :)

PS. I'm leaning towards an all season Grand Touring type tire, or possibly an all season high perf.. which gives me many tire options within the 225-245 width range.

Custer55
05-16-2017, 06:26 AM
Custer55, do you know offhand what your lever ratio actually is?

Here's my Lokar e-brake pedal in place. It gets a little crowded up there with the Raingear and my brake bellcrank:

7088

Was looking for something else last night and fount the original e-brake lever. From the pivot slot to the hole to the rear brakes is 1.5" and to the hole for the inside handle cable is 9". So it is a 6 to 1 ratio, so it is pretty close to the ratio of the non power brake pedal which I guess would make sense.
Brian

BamaNomad
05-16-2017, 07:24 AM
Was looking for something else last night and fount the original e-brake lever. From the pivot slot to the hole to the rear brakes is 1.5" and to the hole for the inside handle cable is 9". So it is a 6 to 1 ratio, so it is pretty close to the ratio of the non power brake pedal which I guess would make sense.
Brian

That's great to know the mechanical advantage provided by the original TriFive emergency brake lever and will be useful to me when I'm trying to figure mine out... Now what about the differences in 'effort' required between the original rear drum brakes and the C4 emergency brake? Do you have any idea?

On a related subject, do you have any info (or just a feeling?) whether a 'manual brake' might work with the C4 disk brakes?? If there's any way to avoid fitting a power booster to my car, I'd like to pursue that...?

I picked up the new wheels today - Here is a photo of one of them.. I think I am going to like them. :)

BamaNomad
06-03-2018, 11:07 AM
Wow... I didn't know it had been a year since I'd updated this thread! I know I posted some other updates, but I apparently did NOT post them into this thread.

Since this update a year ago, I did buy same size tires (245-45/17) for all corners, mounted them and went thru the body/frame fitting, which required a few 'cuts' on the body (mostly removing the stock body rear shock mounts and some trimming of the front inner fender panels, and also had to remove part of the 'Rick's tank mounting points which Billy installs on his frames as they interfered with the storage box installed in the body. As Brian had pointed out previously, placing a trifive body on a custom frame is NOT a one time operation, so I've purchased and installed a two post lift and my body/frame have been separated and joined a few dozen times since as I've tried to work out all the custom *issues* of this car... :)

I also cleaned/painted the 'used' LS1 engine/4L60 trans package and reinstalled it, bought coil covers and painted them; I think I reported on all these small accomplishments in other posts (forgetting to add them to this project file!).. :)

More recently I spent a LONG time figuring out what to do about the fuel tank/storage box issue, finally deciding to leave the storage box alone (I like the idea of having some hidden storage in the Nomad) and going with a smaller ~ 15 gallon custom built fuel tank. I investigated an aluminum tank using local builder, but finally decided to go stainless, looking at both Ricks, Tanks Inc, and Rock Valley Antique Auto - finally deciding on Rock Valley to build a 10"x11"x33.5" stainless tank in 14 gauge. Between my long period of 'indecision' and 6 weeks of construction time, that took MONTHS before I actually received it, then was sick with bronchitis on arrival, but finally it's all installed and with some assistance from my friend (TriFive Richard) even have mounted and connected a WIX fuel pressure reg/filter and the gas line to the engine. While doing the fuel line install to the engine, I realized that after painting the engine, I'd re-installed the fuel rail WRONG (I didn't realize it would go on either way - which explained why the coil cover I purchased didn't 'fit' very well before)... Fits much better now! :)
Photos attached herein.

BamaNomad
06-03-2018, 04:10 PM
I'm going to TRY to remember to use this thread from now on for my '57 Nomad updates... :)

I went back and found a couple of the 'other' threads I'd begun/posted to re other issues with this project, which I'll reference here in attempt to tie it all together..

Previous thread on my LS ‘accessory drive’ issue and the various systems I investigated...
http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/5851-LS-Accessory-Drive-Systems-Questions-comments-feedback?p=45226#post45226

I ordered the Holley 20-285 'mid mount' accessory package last week- but it won't ship until mid June.

Previous thread on my Park Brake customization/install… I hope that mod is finished except for installing the parts which go from the body to the chassis which I won't do until the body is mounted for the *final* time.. :)
http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php/5203-Seamless-frame-chassis-from-57-Nomad-No-Rust-For-Sale?p=44286#post44286

BamaNomad
06-03-2018, 05:50 PM
With the tank and fuel lines installed, I've begun thinking about how to run the electrical wiring to the tank (pump power and fuel level for gauge); I'm fairly certain the wiring is run inside the body until it's close to the tank at the rear; I thought along the driver side with other rear wiring, but I cannot find a factory hole where the wiring would go thru a grommet. My car had a replacement floor installed prior to my purchase so maybe ...?

Can anyone help with either the factory location or a 'better/improved' location to run the wires thru? Since the wiring was Fisher installed, the AIM doesn't address this... I need the location and hole size for a proper grommet...

chevynut
06-03-2018, 07:16 PM
I ran my wiring inside the car around the wheel tub and out of a hole I made near the body mount that's under the rear seat up close to the cargo floor. It includes all the wiring for taillights/license light, brake lights, turn signals, backup lights, fuel gauge and fuel pump. From there it goes over the top of my fuel tank.

I just noticed that you don't have the proper original thick spherical washers behind the front bolts on the upper a-arm shafts. They're needed to provide the proper caster, unless you use a thick stack of shims. Caster is spec'd at 6 degrees.

BamaNomad
06-04-2018, 07:11 PM
Today I installed the front portion of the Danchuk#851 rear wheelhouse seals while the body was raised up. I did utilize the tips provided by ChevyNut in an older thread suggesting use of simple green/water and using rubber coated plier handles to push the seal into place. I first tried using GoJo as a lubricant, but it was more difficult to get into place than the simple green which was thinner and ran into the groove... Thanks CN..
I need to order another one of those kits to finish the rear portion of both wheelwells rather than trying to mechanically retain (with staples or screws) the flat rear portion as used by the factory.

CN: I checked the front suspension on my chassis today and compared it to my two C4 cars. The only difference I noticed was that the chassis hasn't had the caster adjusted as yet, so probably will need more shims in the front position of the upper A arm.

chevynut
06-04-2018, 07:51 PM
CN: I checked the front suspension on my chassis today and compared it to my two C4 cars. The only difference I noticed was that the chassis hasn't had the caster adjusted as yet, so probably will need more shims in the front position of the upper A arm.

All the C4s from around 1986 to 1996 had thick spacers in the front of the a-arm shaft. Shims will work, or you could machine another thick spacer. My point was that to get the specified 6 degrees of caster you'll need a thick shim there. Here's what mine and all the others I've dealt with look like....

8849

56Safari
06-04-2018, 09:59 PM
Looking good, I really like those wheels... Can't wait to see how they look with the body on.

BamaNomad
06-05-2018, 10:14 AM
Thanks Safari... the wheels are one of the few I could find that were on the inexpensive end price wise, in a size I considered for the car, that had a decent look... I do have a photo showing the wheels with the body lowered in position (but not mounted or finished) that might give you an idea of the final look...

ie. these are 17x8 wheels which provide me 1"+ clearance on both front and back sides, which I'm *hoping* will allow removal/change (on the road if necessary) without a great deal of effort. The clearances came out real close to that predicted by the online wheel calculator!

hurddawg
06-05-2018, 09:19 PM
I really like the engine covers on your LS! I like the retro look. The red paint looks great!

BamaNomad
06-06-2018, 03:48 AM
Thanks Hurddawg! :) I've liked those coil covers since I first saw them (back when LS's were new), so once I decided not to change out the plastic plenum for an 'old style looking' intake, those are what I wanted. I'm still thinking I'm going to do something to make the 'simulated valve covers' stand out a little bit once I get this thing running...

I saw my first Nomad in 1968, and I've been hooked since. That car was a Matador red with red/black interior and I've wanted one since then... this 'red' isn't matador, but it's going to have to do it for me! :)

WagonCrazy
06-06-2018, 10:04 AM
Lookin' good Bama!

BamaNomad
06-06-2018, 06:44 PM
Thank you wagoncrazy! I'm slow as molasses (as we say down south) doing this customizing thing! You and I need to keep each other going so we can take both to a car show one of these days... years... :)

BamaNomad
06-09-2018, 01:51 PM
I received the second set of rear wheelwell seals I ordered from Danchuk, and used 'part' of one of the seals to finish up the rear wheelwells (so as not to have to do the staple things on the rear portion). I still need to let the lube that I used dry and then apply a little weatherstrip adhesive to ensure they stay in place once it's on the road.

PS. Using CNut's tip of water/simplegreen, the Danchuk (#851) seals slipped right into place. I'm only going to use the adhesive where the seal slips around the inner wheel well, and leave it dry where it's against the quarter panel.

BamaNomad
06-09-2018, 01:57 PM
I also modified my treadlevac power brake lever/arm to use it as a 'manual brake pedal' in the Nomad. To do this it requires removing the PB brake stop on the lever, then drilling a new clevis/pushrod hole with a reduced moment arm (1.875") from the pivot. I also added the manual brake 'bump stop' rubber and I need to acquire and install a return spring for the brake pedal. I ordered and received a Manual Brake Master Cylinder from NAPA to fit a '67-76 Corvette (with manual brakes). This MC has the deep throat for the pushrod and a 1" piston bore. The 'new' NAPA part mimics the original Delco configuration but without the numbers of course...

88588859

TrifiveRichard
06-10-2018, 01:25 PM
Looking good Gary, keep at it!

BamaNomad
06-20-2018, 07:57 PM
I'm getting a little bit done.. slowly. This week, I ordered and received a Borgeson Steering column plate (with swivel collar, and test fitted it to my firewall. I will either paint body color or polish and clear coat this plate prior to final install. I also need to seal it round the periphery and will use the factory seal on the inside and cover with the carpet and the factory plastic cover. (There was/is an issue on the other site re whether this plate goes on the inside or the outside of the firewall - since it attached to weldnuts which are welded on the inside, I think it should go on the outside as I have it positioned, but there's some doubt on this!

BamaNomad
06-20-2018, 08:04 PM
I've also been working (slowly) for what seems a LONG time (wtih some assistance from TriFiveRichard) trying to get my exhaust downpipes ready to TIG up and finish the exhaust (at least initially)... lots of 'starts', fits', and trials here... but finally today with some assistance from my son in law we managed to get both downpipes adjusted and tacked (using a mig w/SS wire) so that the position should now be fixed. I've tentatively scheduled a fella who works at a local custom shop to bring his TIG to my shop next week and do all the welding to at least have an exhaust in place (No tailpipes in the works right now, just turndowns after the mufflers)... The exhaust will be all 304 SS wtih Magnaflow 18" mufflers and a turndown after initially.

BamaNomad
07-24-2018, 10:06 AM
Since my last update, I had a young fella (fantastic TIG welder!) come and weld up my exhaust pipes, which I then later modified again when I realized the mufflers were too far back and interfered with the Park Brake cables; the later modification only involved cutting the long straight pipes to move the mufflers forward (as much as possible - up to the trans support cross member). I've been thinking and worrying about how to do the muffler/exhaust hangers since... not resolved, but getting closer.

Also I've mounted up for the final time, the Holley mid-mount accessory system I ordered and finally received. I had some issues - had to wait for holley to replace some hardware they'd sent wrong, and also had to open up one of the holes in the WP bracket to get the AC comp mounted, but it looks very neat and compact installed.

I also got back the modified/retrofitted LS1 eng/trans/computer harness from a friend here who did that for me. he did a very nice neat job and the harness is lying in place with a connector to wire into the body harness and a couple of 'loose ends' to tie up a bit later (alternator and ac wiring, and IAT and MAF sensors)...

I'm closer to being able to (hopefully) finally mount the body to the chassis - didn't want to do that until all my chassis work is complete. I'm sure glad that our team member here from Nebraska convinced me that a lift would be well worth it! :)

TrifiveRichard
07-25-2018, 05:14 AM
Looking good, Gary. Keep trucking!

WagonCrazy
07-26-2018, 05:43 AM
Dang, you guys in the east are "gettin' it done". Looking good Bama.

chevynut
07-26-2018, 09:28 AM
Looks great Gary! I like that Holley accessory drive. What is left before you can bolt the body down permanently?

56Safari
07-26-2018, 11:31 AM
Looking good man... Thats a nice and tidy LS install, I'm digging the silver covers and silver engine.

BamaNomad
07-26-2018, 08:34 PM
Thanks guys!

Wagoncrazy: TriFive Richard is a good influence on me; my shop is in my backyard, but Richard has a 'complex' that he goes to each day a few miles from his home. He treats it like a 7 day work week (6-10 hrs a day). I've been to his shop three days this week assisting, and when I need help he comes to my shop, but his 'work ethic' on his hobby cars has been a great influence.. :) *We also worked a bit today at his shop fabricating a 'test' muffler hanger! for me* I checked that tonight when I got home and marked up a couple more pieces of angle to fabricate the remaining pieces the next time we get together.

Chevynut: The only things I *think* I need to finish before body mount (permanent) is to complete the exhaust hangers, and I need to wire up the gas tank electricals (pump and sending unit) to a connector that I can get to and connect to when I do the body wiring. I'm very anxious to begin the 'normal' '57 tasks (insulation, dash, trim, glass, etc) which I'm more familiar with than doing 'custom chassis' work, although I'm sure I'll be requesting some Richard assistance when I do the body wiring (he's an expert wiring guy) and glass installs (two man tasks)...

Safari: I was looking for some 'contrast' between the engine/mechanicals and the bodywork. The entire body is painted RED everywhere.. top bottom in and out, and I thought the silver-aluminum mechanicals would provide the contrast I was looking for. Oh.. the coil covers with the 'valve cover' appearance was what I ended up with to look 'old school' after I gave up on pulling the LS1 plenum and replacing it with an aluminum manifold (with the air meter on top) and customized to accommodate an 'old school air cleaner' on top (A friend here has done a couple like that and I really like the appearance better than the 'LS' appearance.

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 06:42 AM
Since getting home from the TriFive Nats late Sunday and helping Richard unload his '56 HT from the borrowed trailer and returning the trailer, I've been working on my '57 Nomad... trying to get everything completed on the chassis that is necessary prior to mounting the body! Richard was over here Tuesday assisting and 'demonstrating' proper use of the Weatherpak connectors! Incidentally, Richard's '56 HT had a featured location at the Nats, decorating the front of the Wilwood trailer booth space! There were some beautiful cars presented in the Vendor areas, and Richard's car was one of them! :)

o Finished up the mounting and support of the stainless exhaust system. THANKS to Mikey for his
suggestion to use U bolts/air impact to clamp the tubes to muffler before using the stainless band clamps! That seems to have worked!


o Wired up a short 3' harness to the fuel tank for the pump and sender connections, out to a weatherpak connector so I could disconnect the lines if I ever had to drop the tank! I had a drain installed in the tank so hopefully I NEVER have to drop it! Note: my son in law suggested we actually power up and check the fuel connections for leaks before mounting the body, so Ricahrd and I did that Tuesday. Turns out I didn't use any sealer on the pipe threaded connections into the tank and they did leak! After correcting that, we got 55 psi up to the injector rails with no leaks! (After 2 days sitting there, it still has 38 psi at that gauge!

o Checked my '55 Nomad for the exact location of the rear wiring hole/grommet, measured the size (1" dia) and location (3/4" from inner fender, and 3.4" from rear cargo dropoff) and duplicated that hole in the replacement cargo pan of the '57 Nomad and installed a grommet so it's ready for the rear lighting wiring.

o Also drilled a 3/4" hole for a grommet to accommodate the fuel tank harness. I drilled this hole in the vertical panel under the rear seat in a location that should not interfere with anything else.

o Also in the last couple of weeks prior to the Nats, I got back the modified LS1/4L60E harness from a local friend who modified it for my car (and did a nice job!~ Thanks Jonathan) and have it mostly installed/connected.

o Lowered the body onto the chassis mounts, but thus far I'm not happy with the gaps... I'm suspecting that the person who installed the new floor pan did NOT mount it to a chassis prior to welding the floor pan to the body. I've got 1/4" gaps to fill at several locations! The primary cause is that the 4 central mounts are too high; I considered using a thinner (1/4") rubber isolator at those locations but I'm not sure about that one!

Question: Do you fellas think shimming mount locations as much as 1/4" will cause me problems ...? like for bumper alignments or ?? I've always had tight clearances when I did this before, but this is my first 'custom chassis' and first time with a 'replacement floor pan'...

barry
08-16-2018, 06:44 AM
Wow, beautiful!

WagonCrazy
08-16-2018, 08:42 AM
Question: Do you fellas think shimming mount locations as much as 1/4" will cause me problems ...? like for bumper alignments or ?? I've always had tight clearances when I did this before, but this is my first 'custom chassis' and first time with a 'replacement floor pan'...

They were assembled by Chevrolet using these...so I don't see why there would be an issue shimming.
9103

But you will probably want to know what your door gaps are before final shimming. That seems to be one of the important variables for getting door gaps set correctly.

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 09:30 AM
Thanks for the reminder about the door gaps, Paul, but my doors are hung and gaps are OK, and the nomad body is pretty rigid. I'm mostly concerned about NOT causing problems when I cinch it down. I've done several 'stock' body/floors onto stock chassis before and never had more than 1/8" to shim, and that's why I'm concerned over this one. I can shim up the gaps before I tighten up the mounts without causing a door problem (I'm pretty sure), but if this ends up in *raising the body* 1/4" more than factory, I'm trying to think what kinds of problems this might cause.

PS. Trifive Richard and I made some 1/4" thick shims from aluminum if I end up having to do this much shimming...

chevynut
08-16-2018, 09:40 AM
Lowered the body onto the chassis mounts, but thus far I'm not happy with the gaps... I'm suspecting that the person who installed the new floor pan did NOT mount it to a chassis prior to welding the floor pan to the body.

Or the body mounts on the frame aren't properly located. It wouldn't be hard to measure them to find out.



Question: Do you fellas think shimming mount locations as much as 1/4" will cause me problems ...? like for bumper alignments or ?? I've always had tight clearances when I did this before, but this is my first 'custom chassis' and first time with a 'replacement floor pan'...

Shimming shouldn't cause any problems. If it was me I'd make some custom shims or use large washers like the ones on the body mounts. GM used some large square shims at the body mount locations. But you really need to shim to make sure your door gaps are good, and/or adjust them afterward. I'd consider cranking down at least some of the body mounts first with the doors open and see where things end up.

Rick_L
08-16-2018, 10:32 AM
There are two areas I'd be concerned about if 1/4" of shims was used everywhere. One, the bumpers will be low. Two, if you have a steering box, you're going to have column to steering box misalignment.

I don't know why you wouldn't want to use the square shims that are sold to be used with the replacement body mounts.

If it was my car, I'd just drop the body on without shims, then inspect for obvious gaps at every mount, and add shims where there were gaps. If you started with shims, intending on removing shims either side of where you saw a gap, I just think you'd be chasing around and doing more fiddling with shims than the other way for no advantage. Once you have the gaps that you eyeballed shimmed up, you can start torquing the bolts, obverving whether some locations tighten more quickly or less quickly than others, and watching the door gaps. You may have to do some addition adding or removing shims at that point.

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 01:44 PM
Or the body mounts on the frame aren't properly located. It wouldn't be hard to measure them to find out.


Yes, I plan to do that. Richard has an 'empty frame' at his shop so I will measure it next time I'm there. I've measured the high and low mounts on the Corvette corrections frame... I had sold the original frame before I noticed the issue...




Shimming shouldn't cause any problems. If it was me I'd make some custom shims or use large washers like the ones on the body mounts. GM used some large square shims at the body mount locations. But you really need to shim to make sure your door gaps are good, and/or adjust them afterward. I'd consider cranking down at least some of the body mounts first with the doors open and see where things end up.

Richard and I made some 1/4" thick square shims with center holes for the shimming, but I can't decide whether to reduce the height of the tall ones, add to the short ones, OR just start cinching down as you and Rick suggests and see what happens. It's a "new" problem for me and I don't want to be hasty in my decision...

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 01:50 PM
There are two areas I'd be concerned about if 1/4" of shims was used everywhere. One, the bumpers will be low. Two, if you have a steering box, you're going to have column to steering box misalignment.

I don't know why you wouldn't want to use the square shims that are sold to be used with the replacement body mounts.


I'm not planning on using them *everywhere*, only where I have 1/4" or more space to make up. I am using the thin shims where appropriate. I like to have all the mounts shimmed to no/little gap before I tighten down any mount; that generates the least body distortion. I have a R*P steering, so that's not an issue, but the possibly 1/4 bumper situation bothers me a little, as I'm not sure that the bumpers have that much adjustment (been a long while since I've adjusted a trifive bumper!).. :)



If it was my car, I'd just drop the body on without shims, then inspect for obvious gaps at every mount, and add shims where there were gaps. If you started with shims, intending on removing shims either side of where you saw a gap, I just think you'd be chasing around and doing more fiddling with shims than the other way for no advantage. Once you have the gaps that you eyeballed shimmed up, you can start torquing the bolts, obverving whether some locations tighten more quickly or less quickly than others, and watching the door gaps. You may have to do some addition adding or removing shims at that point.

That's what I've done and I've experimented with thinner rubber spacers where the body hits first, but unsure which will work better (shimming up) or reducing the taller mount shims~ I probably won't be CERTAIN which way I should have accomplished it until the bumpers are on and adjusted... so I'm fretting about it.

Rick_L
08-16-2018, 02:37 PM
I had to go back and read your post where you described the gaps. I must have not read that in detail previously. I don't know how I missed that.

Do you have the body sitting on the cowl mounts and rear frame crossmember mounts without shims? And several others have 1/4" or more gap? That's the way I read it now.

Given that, I would make up some 1/4" square spacers to use in the big gaps. Same size as the regular shims. Round ones would do too. Just depends on what you have available for material, and what would get built with the least effort with the tools you have available. You might also want to make up some 1/8" thick ones too. I wouldn't use rubber, I'd use steel or better yet aluminum. Then just start filling the gaps. Again, once you get to tightening the bolts, watch for any that seem to be reluctant to tighten up, which would indicate you're pulling on the body and more shim might be required.

If you don't have a big shim stack under the cowl and rear crossmember mounts your bumpers should be OK, or at least as OK as they would be if this problem didn't exist.

Does that guy in TX build an entire new frame or modify a stock one like Cnut does? If it's a new frame, I wonder how he jigs up the body mount brackets and does he plan on using extra shims?

Hope that floor pan screwup doesn't cause other problems. I would also try to check and see if each side turns out similarly. You wouldn't want the body to be tilted side to side. It's all probably ok though if the rear crossmember and cowl mounts are close at all.

Rick_L
08-16-2018, 02:40 PM
One more thought. You said the floor was replaced. Was the cargo area floor replaced too? Just wondering if the tail pan brace is in the right place. You might be able to tell by looking. If the tail pan brace is too high that would screw up a bunch of things.

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 03:37 PM
Yes, the cargo floor was also replaced. I began by placing the reproduction pads (1/2" rubber with a steel washer integrated into them) on each mount (by specification). When I lowered the body until it hit, it hit the four central mounts first, and left a 1/8" or 1/4" gap at several other locations (including 1/4" gaps at the rear most mounts).

Billy Dawson (Corvette Corrections) builds the entire frame using a JIG, so all his frames should be very close to the same as another, but I am going to compare the mounts to a stock frame. I really think the issues are due to how the floor was installed in the body (I'm thinking the builder did them on a rotisserie rather than on a frame)... but I don't know for sure.

chevynut
08-16-2018, 05:37 PM
Yes, I plan to do that. Richard has an 'empty frame' at his shop so I will measure it next time I'm there. I've measured the high and low mounts on the Corvette corrections frame... I had sold the original frame before I noticed the issue...

I'd just use the dimensions in the frame drawing to check the mount locations relative to each other. Then shim the ones that are off.

You can build a frame in a jig, but that doesn't mean things won't move around when the frame gets welded up. Typically you can't do all the welding in a jig. A jig can LOCATE parts, but it can't necessarily KEEP the parts in the right location. I can easily see the rear of the frame drooping after welding. We've used a torch to heat and correct rear frame sag on a stock frame before.

Rick_L
08-16-2018, 05:38 PM
Well that sounds more complicated than I had envisioned. Are you actually going to lower the body onto the spare frame with mounts in place? That's probably the only practical way to evaluate that. Good luck. I don't see trying to measure the height of each body mount bracket on 2 frames and getting accurate results.

BamaNomad
08-16-2018, 07:59 PM
No, I'm only going to measure the relative height of the four central mounts as compared to the peripheral mounting points. My body comes down on the four central mounts solid, with the gaps (shims required) around the peripheral mounts ranging from 'zero' to 1/4". I just checked this again tonight, and maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but I'm still going to Richard's tomorrow and check the mount heights on his frame. PS. I am doing this with a long straight edge across the central mounts and measure the gap at the peripheral mounts.

This issue, in my mind, is caused by using a new custom frame, AND a body with a new floor, that I had nothing to do with either prior to purchase, and the results are significantly different than what I'm used to with stock body/floor and stock frame.

chevynut
08-17-2018, 08:26 AM
I'm betting the rear of your frame is lower than it should be based on what you're describing. That gives the appearance of the middle of the frame being too high but it's easier to get the middle ones right because they're on the same piece of steel. I think I recall that the rear of the frame was welded on and is not part of the main rails, so it's most likely to not be in the correct location.

The assembly manual has all the dimensions for every body mount height off the datum. You could put some sort of straightedge or string line on the front mounts at the appropriate height and measure the heights to the rest of the mounts relative to the string to check the frame. Or you could just shim it and forget it. :)

BamaNomad
08-17-2018, 08:35 AM
Good suggestion, and an astute observation CN! You're probably right about the 'rear sag'. Do you think if the frame is 1/4" lower in the back (and shimmed up for the body), that will cause a rear bumper mount issue?

Rick_L
08-17-2018, 09:19 AM
You could put some sort of straightedge or string line on the front mounts at the appropriate height and measure the heights to the rest of the mounts relative to the string to check the frame.

That would be a good plan, much better than trying to measure off the floor which probably isn't flat let alone level. A laser level could be used to level the string. Also, jacking/shimming the frame to get one more mount along the length of the frame at the correct height would simplify the rest of the measurements. You could also do that side to side across the two front mounts. If the measurements showed a rear droop you could fix that. After that, you could shim the frame mounts to correct what you measured, then drop the body on and see what the gaps are.

BamaNomad
08-20-2018, 10:05 AM
I finally decided to just bolt the supports that came down with zero shims, then check the others and shim. 6 supports (the four central ones and two others) came down firm (no shims). 3 or 4 others needed a thin shim or two, but the two at the rear require ~ 3/8 of shim. I have some custom shims which Richard and I made in both 3/8" and 1/4" thickness in aluminum. I will use those along with longer bolts for the two rear most mounts. I did that Saturday night...

Yesterday with help from my wife, neighbor lady and grandson we rolled the 57 Nomad out of the garage to the sloping driveway (first time out in the sunlight in over a year!).. the paint appears more orange (like matador) in the sun! Using a floor jack, tire blocks, and help from them pushing, we managed to get it turned around and rolled back into the garage pointed the right direction (it's been 'backwards all this time which prevented me from opening the doors and getting inside! Now I can begin the next steps, but I want to make sure there's nothing else left to do underneath... like 'grounding straps from engine to chassis, and body to chassis'! I want to get started on the underdash wiring and instrument panel/dash/firewall population, and I don't want to forget the ground straps!

I'd be very interested in any suggestions as to ground strap material (or PN), and where you suggest to place such straps, or any other suggestions/info you can provide before I begin that task! I did a search for 2001 Z28 ground straps (my engine/trans came from such a car), and I got the following but it doesn't mention the gauge of the wiring inside!

https://sdparts.com/i-24096675-acdelco-gm-original-equipment-body-static-ground-strap-15179982.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwzenbBRB3EiwAItS-u2blQwXkJogq5M1a107bqu6oTVDAqb1q7BnVpXuBywkccBXay8 lezBoCbtEQAvD_BwE

Any/all help/suggestions very much appreciated!

chevynut
08-20-2018, 11:05 AM
Grounding depends on where you put your battery. If the battery is in the stock location, you can just ground it to the engine with a normal battery cable the same size as the positive cable. Then you can ground the engine to the body. In a stock configuration, the frame doesn't even have to be grounded. The body probably only needs to be grounded with a #4, #6 or similar sized wire, depending on how much stuff you're running in the car. Most body ground straps are a pretty large braided cable.

I put my battery behind the passenger rear tire. I ran the positive battery cable to a Moroso cutoff switch then directly to the starter, through the frame. The ground goes from the battery to the frame, and a smaller wire goes from the battery to the body. The frame is the ground connection to the engine. I have another lug on the frame near the firewall that gets grounded to the engine, and another wire to the body. The body ground only has to ground all the electronics and electrical stuff inside the car as well as lights, horns, etc.

55 Rescue Dog
08-20-2018, 03:47 PM
I think grounding the frame, or battery negative directly to the highest current draw, which is right on one of the starter mounting bolts, and the the best spots for engine ground. Plus the starter nose is aluminum which conducts better than iron with a lot of surface contact right where it's needed. I like the braided ground straps even though I don't exactly know why so many cars use them, instead of stranded copper?

BamaNomad
08-20-2018, 06:41 PM
Thanks fellas. I appreciate your comments and they make sense! With modified cars and all the late model additions (AC, fans, etc) I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something!

Note: Older cars (fifties / sixties at least) used braided copper ground straps (which is no different than stranded copper conductors, except there's no need for an insulator around it). like the ones for a '69 Camaro as shown here in a speedway ad...
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/M-H-Electric-27380-Engine-Sub-Frame-Ground-Strap-Cable-Kit-Camaro-Nova,117380.html?sku=92614077&utm_medium=CSEGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gclid=CjwKCAjwzenbBRB3EiwAItS-u7_EDbEq_TulUpxOzZ39w5gNMWjJBwKFdwKXIf0fnLbXThJow5 Tc1BoC5HEQAvD_BwE

BamaNomad
08-20-2018, 07:20 PM
I'm thinking of using a smaller side mount battery, and running the positive battery cable to an easy to access terminal block. Are any of you using such a 'power terminal' for your positive (and maybe negative battery cables) to connect (which are also easy to reach/connect for chargers, jumpers, etc?

chevynut
08-20-2018, 07:25 PM
I added a pair of "jumper" posts in both my battery cable runs. Both the negative cable and the positive cable go there first, then the positive cable goes to the cutoff switch and into the frame. The negative cable goes to the frame. The cables are for a side connection yellow top Optima battery and are from AAW. You can see the additional body ground wire in this pic.

9114

Here you can see the forward ground lug on the frame and where the positive cable exits the frame. I actually put a conduit inside of the frame.

9115

This is how I did the ground lugs per a great suggestion I believe I got from Rick_L long ago. The brass fitting goes into a threaded boss I welded into the frame. This ensures a good ground connection free of paint.


9116

BamaNomad
08-20-2018, 07:31 PM
Yes, CN... I'm thinking of something like what you have. It appears you mounted your battery inside the rear quarter panel using a drop down kit? After changing out a battery in a friend's Nomad which was installed in one of the drop down kits, I eliminated that from my baseline! I'm still considering either the original front battery location (but on a smaller modified base) vs. putting the battery in my rear 'storage compartment' (under the spare tire cover - which will still be present but not covering a spare tire!). Ease of access is probably more important to me than moving weight to the rear, and having the battery nearer to the starter should be an advantage too.

chevynut
08-20-2018, 07:57 PM
Yes, CN... I'm thinking of something like what you have. It appears you mounted your battery inside the rear quarter panel using a drop down kit?

It's not a "kit", it's a custom framework I built that a polished stainless drop-down battery box bolts to.



After changing out a battery in a friend's Nomad which was installed in one of the drop down kits, I eliminated that from my baseline!

If you notice, my lower inner fenderwell flap is removable with DZUS fasteners which should make dropping the battery out a lot easier. My tubs are also wider than stock which makes it a little easier to get up there.

9118

9119


I'm still considering either the original front battery location (but on a smaller modified base) vs. putting the battery in my rear 'storage compartment' (under the spare tire cover - which will still be present but not covering a spare tire!). Ease of access is probably more important to me than moving weight to the rear, and having the battery nearer to the starter should be an advantage too.

I didn't relocate mine to move the weight, I just didn't want an ugly battery in my engine compartment. My second choice would have been a box in the wheel tub accessible from inside. But I didn't want to screw with that either. Mine is totally hidden from view, no doors to mess with, and fairly easy to access. Plus the location made for easy implementation of the hidden jumper lugs.

BamaNomad
08-20-2018, 08:39 PM
Excuse my use of the word 'kit'... I recall now that you bought the box and 'made' your own drop down, and yes the changes you've made will make changing out the battery a *little* easier, but unless you put the car on a lift, you'll still be lying on your back to change it out... and the lower the car, the harder it is!
I was hot, sweating, and cursing when I changed out the battery in my friend's car (he used the speedway kit I think).

Did you install one of the 'ground lugs' both in the rear near your battery and in the front (is that it on top of the frame rail just behind where your pos cable exits the frame rail?

PS. I'm going to use a 'pretty' battery if I put it in the engine compartment, or maybe hide it in a pretty box? :) J/K..

chevynut
08-21-2018, 06:36 AM
yes the changes you've made will make changing out the battery a *little* easier, but unless you put the car on a lift, you'll still be lying on your back to change it out... and the lower the car, the harder it is!

Yes that's the price I pay for "hiding" the battery. I will have to lay on the ground to remove it......but I don't plan on doing that very often. I also have to remove the front wheels and inner fender sections to get to my brake reservoir and coolant reservoir. I didn't want them showing either. But when I think of how many times I've messed with those things on my other cars I don't worry about it. :)



Did you install one of the 'ground lugs' both in the rear near your battery and in the front (is that it on top of the frame rail just behind where your pos cable exits the frame rail?

Yes, one in the front near the starter and another in the rear near the battery.


PS. I'm going to use a 'pretty' battery if I put it in the engine compartment, or maybe hide it in a pretty box? :) J/K..

No such thing as a "pretty battery" imo. :D

BamaNomad
05-22-2019, 05:04 AM
The evening before I left for the Smokey Mountain Classic Chevy Roundup, I received the new AutoRad radiator I'd ordered a few weeks prior (for the '57 Nomad I'm working on). Since I was preparing to leave for the show I didn't have time to do anything but check for shipping damage. Yesterday I opened up the box and observed how greatly they packed the radiator - so well that it's not likely to receive shipping damage, even with UPS being the shipper! https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Now I've got to decide whether to paint the radiator (or not). I'm too lazy and cheap to polish (or pay for) polishing the aluminum radiator, so I probably will paint all but the actual radiator grill. I painted the aluminum LS1 and 4L60 engine with urethane single stage (Argent Silver), so I'm considering painting the radiator support and radiator tanks/brackets with the same. The alternative is to paint it a semi-gloss black. My inner fenders and firewall are painted the same as the outside of the car (Victory Red)...

What do you fellas think? Argent Silver? to match the engine and drive train, or black?

97369737

scorpion1110
05-22-2019, 06:07 AM
I vote black. It will tie the air ducts and motor together nicely from a color standpoint.

Scorp

BamaNomad
05-22-2019, 06:19 AM
I vote black. It will tie the air ducts and motor together nicely from a color standpoint.

Scorp

But you really can't see much of the airducts once the fenders are installed..... ?

chevynut
05-22-2019, 08:10 AM
If the inner fenders were black, I'd say black would be fine. However, since the firewall, inner fenders, and everything else are red, I think black would look odd. I'd paint the support red and the radiator silver.

55 Rescue Dog
05-22-2019, 09:52 AM
I like the natural finish, but I also like at least the front painted black so it disappears behind the grill. The bright shiny new grill is most visible, but a bright radiator/condenser really stands out too much in the background and detracts the front view of the exterior of the car.

Custer55
05-22-2019, 10:02 AM
My vote would be for the support red and the radiator silver, or just leave it natural, or polished.

BamaNomad
05-22-2019, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the input. I think ALL of you fellas are correct, so I'm now leaning towards RED for the support pieces, and silver on the radiator tanks/brackets (bare aluminum seems to collect dirt and oxidation unless painted, and when painted it cleans so much easier)...

Five Seven
05-22-2019, 12:01 PM
Support Red, Radiator to match the color on the coil packs.....

Rick_L
05-22-2019, 06:34 PM
If it was mine I'd paint the radiator support and related pieces the same color as the inner fenders. I'd leave the rest bare aluminum, unless the mfr. has already polished or brush finished the tanks. If they have I'd paint them the argent silver color. The raw aluminum will not tarnish like a polished/brushed aluminum will.

WagonCrazy
05-23-2019, 04:05 PM
I'd paint the support red and the radiator silver.

I vote for this color combo...

BamaNomad
05-23-2019, 07:28 PM
I think I've come around to that thinking; after many years doing original restorations/preservations, I really like the semi-gloss black underhood, but given the way this car is being built and how the inner fenders are painted (body color), I think the core support needs body color as well. I'll paint the radiator tank/brackets the same argent silver I painted the motor/trans assembly to make it better maintainable (easier to clean)...

mmsalt
05-24-2019, 11:30 AM
Gary

It looks great just the way it is.

Mike

Gmvette
05-27-2019, 11:34 AM
Gary

It looks great just the way it is.

Mike


Agree, what’s objectionable the way it is? Close the hood and drive it.........

567chevys
05-27-2019, 11:52 AM
Gary , I really Like it as it is

Very Nice !!!

Sid

BamaNomad
05-28-2019, 06:28 AM
Thanks for your comments fellas! My main issues are this:

1) bare aluminum gets dirty looking and collects grease/crud fairly quickly. I'm not skilled or patience enough to polish, so I want to paint the radiator tanks/brackets (not the radiator portion).

2) Whether to paint the support to match the radiator or to match the firewall/inner fenders was the real question.

I like selected contrast in paint, so I'll paint the rad support/etc red to match the car (and to not be so bright behind the grill), and paint the radiator tanks the argent silver.

I'll provide an update once I do that, but it might be awhile since I've got so much to do on this car...

Gary

BamaNomad
08-01-2019, 07:33 PM
In answer to CN's questions:... :)

Some of us have to (do it ourselves), as we have no one else to do it, and we can't afford to take them to a shop.. :-) Maybe we are working on them rather than taking photos and reporting? :-) OR .. we are too lazy to report on our progress? :-)

The last few months, among taking the '56 to car shows and doing lawn work!, I've been polishing stainless, making sure I have all the fasteners/etc to install it, etc and studying how I'm going to install the Nomad glass (and making sure I have the necessary small bits to get it done!). Here's a photo showing my progress (or lack thereof) for polishing/installing side stainless on my '57!

Last night I had to remove the rear tires (AND loose the bottom of the shock) to get the tires out) so as to finish installing the nuts on the clips. I had bought the Ol'55 kits for side trim installs, which came with speed nuts or tinnerman nuts, and which didn't work very well. I think I got a handful of those nuts installed, but finally purchased washers/reg nuts to finish the retention of the trim!

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9863&stc=1&d=1564670919

BamaNomad
08-02-2019, 07:04 AM
Now it's time for the fin/crown mouldings... I've restored the mouldings and the insert with new studs. Does anyone have any suggestions for reinsertion of the inserts and installing of the mouldings on the car? Engaging the crown moulding with the rear fin moulding is causing me a lot of thinking without resolution so far.. :)

Should I install the tail light housings before doing this??

55 Rescue Dog
08-02-2019, 10:52 AM
Your car is looking fantastic. Dealing with any kind of trim is a nightmare for me. If I don't bend or break it taking it off, I will putting it back on. Hard to imagine that when these things were rolling down the assembly line, they were probably all trimmed out in minutes instead of weeks, or years.

BamaNomad
08-02-2019, 01:47 PM
thanks RD. I'm just SLOW... and taking trim off is worse, especially if you've never removed the trim off that type of car before. Over the years, the manufacturers changed/updated the ways they applied/installed trim, so removing it can be a detective job. Installing it without damaging paint (if you have the right fasteners) can also be a pain... :)

MP&C
08-02-2019, 05:50 PM
Looking good! That red paint is really going to pop in the sun!

LEE T
08-02-2019, 06:01 PM
Now it's time for the fin/crown mouldings... I've restored the mouldings and the insert with new studs. Does anyone have any suggestions for reinsertion of the inserts and installing of the mouldings on the car? Engaging the crown moulding with the rear fin moulding is causing me a lot of thinking without resolution so far.. :)

Should I install the tail light housings before doing this??

There are slots at the back end of the insert that you can use to pound them on or off the stainless.

Its best to get everything set before paint, so you can make adjustments if needed. Before paint, :(there are many different ways to adjust the fit.

I don't recall the name, but there is a cover that goes on the right side tail fin, then the clip for the vertical stainless is first to go on, and I would test fit that stainless alone first. If you don't like the fit, it may help to change the clip. When you are ready, start sliding the vertical piece on the clip, and just before pushing it all the way down, loosely attach the crown molding to the vertical piece, with the front of it elevated. That's the only way the pins will line up with the first hole. As you push the vertical part down it will also slide on the crown molding, and this is because the angle is not 90 degrees.

Tail lights then bumper.

LEE T
08-02-2019, 06:17 PM
Let me know if you need pictures of how it should all fit.

55 Rescue Dog
08-05-2019, 02:53 PM
It's never really bothered me ever, when a thread takes a fork in the road. Not a big deal. At least it can make it interesting, and keep it rolling, instead of just falling off the edge.

BamaNomad
08-06-2019, 06:51 AM
An 'aside' in a thread I began doesn't bother me either, RD, but it bothers 'some' here.. :)

In this particular situation, I think the 'cataract' options are of interest to many here (most of us are old farts :) and I thought it would be beneficial if these informative comments were in a thread of their own with 'cataract surgery options' as the title... but I think only the administrator can move posts?

BamaNomad
08-06-2019, 09:03 PM
THANK YOU SID for separating out the several comments on 'Cataract Corrections... which hopefully will help some people in the future!

-------------------

There are slots at the back end of the insert that you can use to pound them on or off the stainless.

Its best to get everything set before paint, so you can make adjustments if needed. Before paint, :(there are many different ways to adjust the fit.

I don't recall the name, but there is a cover that goes on the right side tail fin, then the clip for the vertical stainless is first to go on, and I would test fit that stainless alone first. If you don't like the fit, it may help to change the clip. When you are ready, start sliding the vertical piece on the clip, and just before pushing it all the way down, loosely attach the crown molding to the vertical piece, with the front of it elevated. That's the only way the pins will line up with the first hole. As you push the vertical part down it will also slide on the crown molding, and this is because the angle is not 90 degrees.

Tail lights then bumper.




Thanks Lee... The process as you describe it makes sense. I think I follow the process OK...

I bought the car as a painted bare body and a pile of dirty take off parts... :-) I've got another '57 that is in primer (not painted) that I could test on (but of course each body is a little bit different. I'm trying to use the best of the two sets of parts on this car... I like to tell people that I bought a paint job and got a disassembled car with it! :-) (It's practically impossible to get a decent paint job in my area for a decent price, and my eyes aren't good enough any more to paint anymore...)

BamaNomad
10-24-2019, 08:18 PM
1020710208102091021010211Used adhesive to install the 'carsinsulation' thermal barrier to the roof (over the damping mat)today on the '57 project...

BamaNomad
10-24-2019, 08:24 PM
I'm looking for suggestions from you fellas on what gauge steel (I'm thinking of stainless steel since the body is already painted) for making panels to cover holes in the firewall (e.g. heater box blower hole, etc). McMaster-Carr has 12"x12" polished side stainless in 0.030 thickness for ~ $25... from that I can make the two cover panels I need. Is the 0.030" stainless too thick? not thick enough? to use as a flat plate... what do you guys suggest?

I have the panel provided by Vintage Air to cover the heater box hole, but it's 'black' (and my firewall is already painted red (not sure I can match it).. and the VA panel is set up to use the stock pins and lock brackets - which aren't there on my firewall...

chevynut
10-24-2019, 09:02 PM
I'm looking for suggestions from you fellas on what gauge steel (I'm thinking of stainless steel since the body is already painted) for making panels to cover holes in the firewall (e.g. heater box blower hole, etc). McMaster-Carr has 12"x12" polished side stainless in 0.030 thickness for ~ $25... from that I can make the two cover panels I need. Is the 0.030" stainless too thick? not thick enough? to use as a flat plate... what do you guys suggest?


I don't know how the plates are attached but if they're screwed, I would want to make sure the screws don't distort the metal too much or it will look bad. .030" is about 22 gauge, which imo is too thin if it's very visible, which I assume it would be since you want it polished. I would tend to go thicker to minimize distortion when the screws are tightened. I would think something like 18 gauge (.050") or even thicker is what I'd want to use for that reason. It's only a few dollars more and will look better IMO. If you can polish it yourself it's even cheaper. ;)

Don't you have a local place you can buy stainless sheet so you don't have to pay to ship it? I get mill finished stainless sheet locally and it's pretty smooth. I have bought from this place and their prices are better than McMaster:

https://www.discountsteel.com/items/304_Mirrored_Stainless_Steel_Sheet.cfm?item_id=225&size_no=2&pieceLength=cut&wid_ft=1&wid_in=0&wid_fraction=0&len_ft=1&len_in=0&len_fraction=0&pieceCutType=29%7C1&itemComments=&qty=1#skus

BamaNomad
10-25-2019, 05:31 AM
Thanks for your suggestions/comments CN... It's obvious I need to spend a little more time on this before choice of plate.. :)

Custer55
10-25-2019, 06:30 AM
Another option would be aluminum. You would want that to be a bit thicker than the stainless, .080 to .125. It would be easier to cut and polish and can then be clear coated to keep it looking nice.

BamaNomad
10-25-2019, 06:40 PM
You're right Brian!~ Cutting/polishing the stainless is an issue for sure, even cutting a piece already polished is not trivial...

BamaNomad
11-18-2019, 08:39 AM
After buying both stainless (polished) and aluminum plates (12" x 12"), I decided to try to use the plate supplied by Vintage Air. After removing the two remaining 'stud pins' (?) from the left side of the heater box opening and removing the coil assembly atop the LS1 engine, I was able to pretty easily get the VA part into place. I drilled out the firewall locations where the pins were installed and installed 1/4-20 nutserts which allowed me to attach the plate easily with stainless fasteners and washers. Since I'm going to paint this part (either body color or argent silver), I decided to just make the smaller plate for the temp control plate out of steel as well, and I was able to cut that from a piece I'd removed from the floor which was originally for the shock mounts. So these parts are now made and attached but await my decision on 'color' to install the final time. I will use 3M strip caulk to seal around both plates at final install.

I haven't yet mounted my windshield wiper assemblies and have a good wiper motor and motor transmission, along with NOS windshield wiper transmissions. I bought these in the late 70's and they have been stored inside. When I removed the NOS parts from the box, I found them difficult to turn until I sprayed some WD40 around both ends of the shaft. I'm trying to recall if I'd ever known of these transmission having to be lubricated? I had thought with NOS parts, I could just remove them from the box, install them and GO, and didn't consider they might need some form of lubrication. They don't seem to have a mechanism for lube...? What do you fellas suggest ?? I'm going to do some online/manual digging today, but maybe one of you fellas can enlighten me?

chevynut
11-18-2019, 09:10 AM
Personally I'd get rid of that stock wiper motor because it's ugly. But that's just me. ;)

BamaNomad
11-18-2019, 09:41 AM
I appreciate the sentiment, as many people feel that way.. :) but I have good electric motors, and NOS transmissions, so I didn't feel I needed to spend 'new $$' and time to figure out the modern replacements. My '56 Nomad has the 'replacement' mechanical system (all under the dash), and I don't see that the function is improved or different (if any) from the original system as long as the transmission cables are good, so that's why I'm installing the original system. I place 'function and accessibility' ahead of 'appearance' in most of my attempts at customization - which are limited at best~ :) and one of my 'peeves' with the installation of additional components under/behind the dash if the restriction/elimination of original functions (like orig radios and glove compartments).

PS. I found the online instructions from the Service Manual (easier than going to get my SM)...
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm0104.html

The only lubrication specified was to lubriplate the outside surface of the aux drive drums and the cable pulley grooves on the transmissions. Some people *rebuild* the transmissions, which likely consist or replacing the cables and perhaps lubricating the inner shaft?? Do any of you here know?

567chevys
11-18-2019, 10:58 AM
FYI Guys

If you Buy Stainless Steel and want to polish it
304 is OK , T316L is better & best is 317L
T316 & T317 Have more Nickel in it so it will polish up quicker and shiner


Sid

55 Rescue Dog
11-18-2019, 12:31 PM
Personally I'd get rid of that stock wiper motor because it's ugly. But that's just me. ;)
Most of the millions of the people that bought these cars new did not care what they looked like under the hood, or had never even opened it.

chevynut
11-18-2019, 01:24 PM
Most of the millions of the people that bought these cars new did not care what they looked like under the hood, or had never even opened it.

What does that have to do with anything today? But I suppose they worried about the color of a radiator support or what kind of shiny metal to use as a cover plate on the firewall. :D

Gmvette
11-19-2019, 03:59 PM
Personally I'd get rid of that stock wiper motor because it's ugly. But that's just me. ;)

But then the wipers would not work. I took a different approach, because the distributor cap was so tight (having a BBC) I reversed the motor and all it’s workings and mounted it under the dash. Yes a bit of re-engineering but it works well and not in the way of the distributor and cap.

Rick_L
11-19-2019, 04:16 PM
There's a much easler way, it works well but requires cash. It's called a Raingear wiper system. Motor is behind the dash, and it uses links and levers rather than those pesky cables. Fits with Vintage Air too.

markm
11-19-2019, 04:35 PM
In the early 70s my Dad one of those original buyers advised me collect oem electric motors as vacuum ones sucked. Never had any issues with them on 56. 55 however does fine with raingear.

55 Rescue Dog
11-19-2019, 04:43 PM
I have had many cars , and still have that will never see rain if I can help it. Just 2 dead wipers on the windshield for show, and a little Rain-ex just in case. I have driven a couple cars with good wipers hundreds of miles at night in downpours with Rain-ex and never had to turn on the wipers. It actually works better many times as long as you are moving. Do aircraft use wipers flying in the rain?

chevynut
11-19-2019, 05:33 PM
But then the wipers would not work.

No, you replace that stock setup with something that goes under the dash like Raingear or Specialty Power Windows wiper kit.

BamaNomad
11-19-2019, 07:57 PM
The visible wiper motor in the engine compartment must bother some of you fellas much more than I can imagine. I have the raingear system in my '56, and it works *the same* as a functioning original wiper system. The raingear is another modification requiring more $$, something to seal up the hole in the firewall, and requires more of the limited space under the dash. I don't get it, but it will be interesting when these raingear systems begin malfunctioning requiring the VA unit to be removed? to work on it? and maybe the necessary parts aren't available to repair it?

Rick_L
11-20-2019, 06:12 AM
My thought is that if something in the Raingear goes wrong, chances are it will be in the motor or wiring, which won't require disturbing the VA system.

The only thing that would require disturbing the VA system would be if a link fastener failed or if a wiper transmission or link joint seized up or wore out. If a fastener failed it will probably be installer error, shame on me, and I'll double check it as it goes together the first time.

chevynut
11-20-2019, 07:21 AM
The visible wiper motor in the engine compartment must bother some of you fellas much more than I can imagine.

If it doesn't bother you, then use it. I just think it's kinda weird to dress up a nice engine, paint everything, clean up the wiring, and make the engine compartment look as good as yours is, then leave that ugly motor there right smack in the middle of the pretty picture. I had no choice with mine, but I wouldn't have used the original motor even if I could have.


I have the raingear system in my '56, and it works *the same* as a functioning original wiper system.

Lots of things "work" the same as original parts, but we change them anyhow for some reasons that make sense. Isn't the original motor just a one speed deal? I like the Raingear setup with 2-speeds and delay. Not that I plan to drive the car in the rain much. :eek:



The raingear is another modification requiring more $$, something to seal up the hole in the firewall, and requires more of the limited space under the dash.

I don't think a Raingear levers take up any more space than the original cables and pivots. The motor is the only thing that's kinda bulky, and it sits opposite the Vintage Air under the dash. My Vintage Air basically has nothing to do with the Raingear as far as I can tell. The Raingear levers sit well above and behind the VA unit. The only potential interference might be the defroster hoses, but that would a problem with the cables too. And Raingear isn't the only solution......we can't use Raingear on the HEMI55 so Steve is going to use the SPW wiper kit. I think that motor can be installed just about anywhere.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Specialty-Power-Windows-WWK-2-Standard-Universal-Wiper-Drive-Kit,5126.html?sku=91123302&utm_medium=CSEGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5ICyjIn55QIVvxitBh0VnwUGEAQYASAB EgJeBPD_BwE



I don't get it, but it will be interesting when these raingear systems begin malfunctioning requiring the VA unit to be removed? to work on it? and maybe the necessary parts aren't available to repair it?

I see no reason to have to disturb the VA if I need to work on the Raingear.....at least not in my '56. And I've not heard of any major issues with Raingear malfunctioning in decades of their being on the market.

As for going without wipers, some guys might get away with that. But I'm pretty sure wipers are a safety requirement in most states. RainX works pretty good but I wouldn't count on it 100% of the time, especially if you drive your car a lot.

markm
11-20-2019, 04:22 PM
It does not matter what Cnut thinks his POS don't run.

BamaNomad
11-20-2019, 07:26 PM
It does not matter what Cnut thinks his POS don't run.

Mine doesn't either... yet.. :) Relax.. Different strokes for different folks. What would we have to talk about if all our cars were the same? :)

scorpion1110
11-21-2019, 03:53 AM
Just one comment on the Raingear system-

The factory speaker bracket will interfere with the Raingear system on the passenger side- at least it will if you use the CustomAutosound speaker plate. I used a factory speaker bracket, with the speaker plate and rubber boot. Fit fine and I knew it was tight but thought was clearanced. When I ran my test on the wipers as part of the dash re-wire I could see and hear the transmission arm hitting the speaker. I pulled the speaker to see if I could buy some space- but they are pretty slim to begin with. This is a noted problem when running the Raingear system.

I plan on coming back to the speaker issue later, to try and find some clearance. Id estimate the clearance issue is 3/4 to 1 inch.

chevynut
11-21-2019, 08:25 AM
It does not matter what Cnut thinks his POS don't run.

GFY markm. You've never really "built" a car in your life. In fact, I've never seen anything you've ever built or fabbed yourself.

My car is worth more unfinished than all of your junk put together. :D

chevynut
11-21-2019, 08:31 AM
Just one comment on the Raingear system-
The factory speaker bracket will interfere with the Raingear system on the passenger side- at least it will if you use the CustomAutosound speaker plate. I used a factory speaker bracket, with the speaker plate and rubber boot. Fit fine and I knew it was tight but thought was clearanced. When I ran my test on the wipers as part of the dash re-wire I could see and hear the transmission arm hitting the speaker. I pulled the speaker to see if I could buy some space- but they are pretty slim to begin with. This is a noted problem when running the Raingear system. I plan on coming back to the speaker issue later, to try and find some clearance. Id estimate the clearance issue is 3/4 to 1 inch.

That may be true on a 55-56, but Bama has a 57 and the speaker is in the center of the dash. Seems like an easy fix on a 55-56 too, if you ditch the factory speaker and amp like most guys do and put speakers elsewhere. Even if you wanted a speaker there I would think you could make it work fairly easily but it wouldn't make for a very good "stereo" system.

BamaNomad
11-21-2019, 08:57 AM
I really appreciate the 'constructive construction comments' even if I don't agree with the suggested approach - they always make me *think* a little more than I would otherwise, but as 'others' have posted in the past... personal attacks aren't really appreciated in ANY thread, especially someone's project thread... and this one is/was mine.. :)

Maybe for the two or three individuals who 'can't seem to get along or ignore one another' we need a 'GRIPE/BITCH' thread, that they can use anytime they want to beat on or critiicze another member?? (The rest off us can ignore it then if we choose).. :)

Belair-o
11-21-2019, 09:18 AM
I had clearance issues on my 57 between the speaker and the Raingear arm. I ended up searching for a speaker that was less deep, and still had to do a bit of grinding on the arm. The arm is stout, and an angle iron configuration, so felt fine removing the bit that I had to.
Regards, Doug

scorpion1110
11-21-2019, 02:51 PM
That may be true on a 55-56, but Bama has a 57 and the speaker is in the center of the dash. Seems like an easy fix on a 55-56 too, if you ditch the factory speaker and amp like most guys do and put speakers elsewhere. Even if you wanted a speaker there I would think you could make it work fairly easily but it wouldn't make for a very good "stereo" system.

Youre right CN-

I am driving speakers from the tailgate and doors. Since I am running a power amp I have outputs for the gate speakers and doors, and the head unit is a vintage Alpine 7283 (if I recall) with additional powered outputs, so I was just going to put a speaker there because I could.

I will have to make something at some point, but its good to know in the 55-56 that the raingear setup causes interference issues at the factory speaker grill if you are doing the old school thing.

scorpion1110
11-21-2019, 02:54 PM
I really appreciate the 'constructive construction comments' even if I don't agree with the suggested approach - they always make me *think* a little more than I would otherwise, but as 'others' have posted in the past... personal attacks aren't really appreciated in ANY thread, especially someone's project thread... and this one is/was mine.. :)

Maybe for the two or three individuals who 'can't seem to get along or ignore one another' we need a 'GRIPE/BITCH' thread, that they can use anytime they want to beat on or critiicze another member?? (The rest off us can ignore it then if we choose).. :)

Bama youre right.

When I read the posts I thought it was joking.

Also sorry to hijack your thread on the Raingear info.

BamaNomad
11-21-2019, 08:28 PM
Scorp, I don't have a problem with any informative post... :) No worry!~

My only criticism was the 'personal animosity' shown by a couple of individuals when they address one another... I don't think that stuff belongs on our forum.

HYPR
11-25-2019, 04:14 PM
Hmmm, Nothing changes from site to site. Has me wondering if I should post or not.

BamaNomad
01-22-2020, 08:36 AM
104461044710448A few things I've done to my '57 Nomad project recently... since I don't update often...

After trying to install a 'factory appearing' firewall insulation pad using original type plastic/rubber plugs (both orig repro and sixties orig), I gave up and installed it using stainless button head screws thru the firewall and flanged barrel nuts on the inside. The repro pad (bought thru Ecklers) was too long so it had to be 'sectioned' to work.

BamaNomad
01-22-2020, 08:37 AM
I'm having trouble with 'adding photos' today for some reason.....? I had intended to show a few more photos after the firewall insulation pad install, test fitting my Vintage Air Evaporator under/behind the dash, and installation of the brake pedal assembly and master cylinder...

I've also recently installed 'upgraded' tailgate cable rollers, new cables, new retainers, and the cover plates and installed the tailgate. (with a story behind each of these).. :)

Gmvette
01-22-2020, 08:53 AM
Just a small thing I saw on the “garage squad” show was a pop rivet type nut that holds similar to a rivet that a screw/bolt threads in. May help not needing hands on both sides of the firewall. Sorry I don’t know if the install tool is something special or not. It would be neat if a regular rivet gun tool works since most guys have one.

Belair-o
01-22-2020, 09:40 AM
BamaNomad, Do you remember where your flanged barrel nuts came from? Look handy!

BeachGirl55
01-22-2020, 11:45 AM
BamaNomad, Do you remember where your flanged barrel nuts came from? Look handy!

you tree'd me, I like the looks of them also and think they could be handy for future projects, I have seen simialr in hardware stores for wood but they either have little spikes or holes in them for nails, I've never seen them smooth before

BamaNomad
01-22-2020, 12:21 PM
Just a small thing I saw on the “garage squad” show was a pop rivet type nut that holds similar to a rivet that a screw/bolt threads in. May help not needing hands on both sides of the firewall. Sorry I don’t know if the install tool is something special or not. It would be neat if a regular rivet gun tool works since most guys have one.

GMvette: That is a 'riv nut' you are describing, and yes they are very handy when you need threads where you cannot get to, or to hold a nut. I've got a few sizes along with an install tool and have used them in a few places already on my car. It's basically a barrell nut with a crush sleeve and a flange. When you insert it into a hole and use the tool, the crush sleeve gets expanded/crumpled and that is what locks the nut in place.

BamaNomad
01-22-2020, 12:59 PM
http://www.trifivechevys.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Belair-o http://www.trifivechevys.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php?p=53455#post53455)
BamaNomad, Do you remember where your flanged barrel nuts came from? Look handy!

you tree'd me, I like the looks of them also and think they could be handy for future projects, I have seen simialr in hardware stores for wood but they either have little spikes or holes in them for nails, I've never seen them smooth before

I think I got them from McMaster-Karr ... I'll dig up the PN and link..\
Steel Round-Base Weld Nuts

https://www.mcmaster.com/mvb/contents/gfx/imagecache/905/90596a031p1-light-b01-digital@halfx_637057306556393673.png?ver=imagenotf ound





A smooth base provides more contact with the mating surface than weld nuts with projections. The base also acts as a flange to distribute the load. A long barrel ensures secure thread engagement.https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvB/Contents/gfx/CADIconForCpy.png?ver=1452869604For technical drawings and 3-D models, click on a part number.




Base



Barrel







Thread
Size
Dia.
Thick.
Dia.
Ht.
Pkg.
Qty.

Pkg.


Steel



1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.305"
1/4"
50
90596A240 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A240)
$5.70


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.305"
7/8"
25
90596A270 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A270)
7.51


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
5/16"
100
90596A025 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A025)
8.15


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
7/16"
100
90596A029 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A029)
8.59


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
9/16"
100
90596A300 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A300)
8.46

Gmvette
01-22-2020, 04:02 PM
GMvette: That is a 'riv nut' you are describing, and yes they are very handy when you need threads where you cannot get to, or to hold a nut. I've got a few sizes along with an install tool and have used them in a few places already on my car. It's basically a barrell nut with a crush sleeve and a flange. When you insert it into a hole and use the tool, the crush sleeve gets expanded/crumpled and that is what locks the nut in place.


I think I recall there is a sheet metal thickness range they are go for. But not a good memory to say for sure. But I thought I’d mention them as they could be handy for somebody that can’t get to the back side with a nut.

BeachGirl55
01-22-2020, 04:29 PM
http://www.trifivechevys.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Belair-o http://www.trifivechevys.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.trifivechevys.com/showthread.php?p=53455#post53455)
BamaNomad, Do you remember where your flanged barrel nuts came from? Look handy!


I think I got them from McMaster-Karr ... I'll dig up the PN and link..\
Steel Round-Base Weld Nuts



https://www.mcmaster.com/mvb/contents/gfx/imagecache/905/90596a031p1-light-b01-digital@halfx_637057306556393673.png?ver=imagenotf ound





A smooth base provides more contact with the mating surface than weld nuts with projections. The base also acts as a flange to distribute the load. A long barrel ensures secure thread engagement.https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvB/Contents/gfx/CADIconForCpy.png?ver=1452869604For technical drawings and 3-D models, click on a part number.




Base


Barrel






Thread
Size
Dia.
Thick.
Dia.
Ht.
Pkg.
Qty.

Pkg.


Steel


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.305"
1/4"
50
90596A240 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A240)
$5.70


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.305"
7/8"
25
90596A270 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A270)
7.51


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
5/16"
100
90596A025 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A025)
8.15


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
7/16"
100
90596A029 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A029)
8.59


1/4"-20
3/4"
3/64"
0.313"
9/16"
100
90596A300 (https://www.mcmaster.com/90596A300)
8.46








thank you

Custer55
01-23-2020, 06:45 AM
Most hardware stores or home improvement stores should sell the riv-nuts also. (also called nut-serts) they need a special tool that works like a pop rivet gun that work on up to 1/4" size inserts. they make bigger ones also. I have used up to 3/8" size which they make a more heavy duty tool for installing, but I just use a 3/8" bolt and a nut and washer to install them. Just take a 3/8" bolt, thread on a nut then a washer on it that just fits over the bolt, (5/16" washers work well), then thread on the nut-sert, insert in the properly sized hole where you want it. the just tighten down the nut while holding the bolt head with another wrench to install it.

Troy
01-23-2020, 09:50 AM
Here's the links to two kinds of nuts, you can install the riv-nuts with just a screw and a washer if you don't have the tool. Enjoy

https://www.mcmaster.com/rivet-nuts

https://www.mcmaster.com/flange-nuts

markm
01-23-2020, 04:08 PM
I found my best price on nut zerts on ebay.

BamaNomad
02-19-2020, 08:53 PM
I've been waiting on my window trim stainless and some chrome to come back from the polisher/plater, so I haven't done any significant work on my project lately (just piddling mostly), but today a Nomad buddy from up in Tennessee visited me and we talked over lots of stuff on my car and his. He asked me what AC outlets I was using... and after some discussion and checking, I learned something I didn't know previously.

When I bought a nice used pair of factory '57 AC outlets many years ago, I suppose I only looked at the front chrome and if they were 'complete and functional', but didn't pay enough attention. I had always thought the hoses to connect them would be the same size! But today I found out I was wrong... One of them has a 3" OD hose connection on the back side, while the other has a 2.5" OD hose connection! Presumably this was because of the different length of hose necessary to connect them to the stock evaporator! How many of you knew this? :)

Rick_L
02-20-2020, 05:53 AM
I knew that once upon a time, then promptly forgot! LOL

BamaNomad
02-20-2020, 07:16 AM
Rick! I'm with you on that! There's mucho stuff I once knew, but have forgotten! (and more everyday!).. :)

Do any of you know if the reproductions also have the different hose port diameters as the originals? or are they made the same? OK.. forget this question as I just checked and found out they match the originals!
10479

PS. When I cut the holes in my ash do I drill both holes in my dash with the same hole saw (3.5"?)...

Rick_L
02-20-2020, 10:26 AM
The 57 reproductions that look like true originals have the same big/little diameter for the hose as the originals do.

Note that the 55-56 a/c vents have the same 2-1/2" diameter hose barb on both parts.

Brent's 57
02-26-2020, 10:45 AM
I installed 57 original ac vents with vintage air last year .. It's no problem with the 2 different sizes, I put the hose on the outside of the passenger vent & it fits inside on the drivers side vent. I drilled a 3-1/8" hole on both sides. Drill the 1/4" center hole first then I drilled the 3-1/8" hole holding the drill level. This will give you the oblong hole you need for the vents to fit.

BamaNomad
03-08-2020, 07:00 PM
I bought a 3.5" hole saw months ago (nearly a year) but haven't yet got my nerve up to drilling the already painted dash for the factory stock ac outlets!!

BamaNomad
03-08-2020, 07:17 PM
Over the past year or so I've been slowly working a task for attaching the wood to the cargo bed which would allow me to *remove* it with the linoleum attached and intact, should it ever be necessary.

Over the past few days, I finished all the prep tasks for attaching my cargo area wood to the floor which will allow removal (if it were ever necessary) with the linoleum intact. I drilled thru the wood and metal floor for installation of pronged 1/4-20 T nuts from the top (which will be under the linoleum) and will use 1/4-20 SS button head screws and washer under the floor for retention.

1) I cut 19/32" thick plywood per the diagram I'd previously provided. I cut it maybe 1/8" larger to allow myself to 'trim to exact size' at the appropriate time. note: If you have an original floor, there is a 'raised' area in the metal which will require you to route out the corresponding area in the wood, and also I used a grinder to 'dish out' the space corresponding to the grommet hole without removing very much of the wood at the 'top surface'.
2) I sealed/treated/stained the wood several times over a few months while I was planning the installation. Prior to finalizing the size, to ensure the size was exact for fitting my 'new' Madmooks stainless (and new linoleum), I went ahead and attached the stainless to the edges of the board pieces to make sure the wood was sized perfectly, and that the 'liftable cover' would fit within the allotted space when all the trim was attached. When I did this, I had to trim a small amount from several of the edges to make this all work. It's a good idea to reseal/stain the edges you have to cut again. At this point, the wood with trim attached was just lying in the cargo space. When I attached the trim to the wood, to protect the new stainless from scratches, I left mook's plastic sleeves on the trim.
3) Once I had wood adjusted for the trim and lying in place, I made sure that the tailgate would close, and moved the wood towards the RH side to allow for approximately 3/4" of space on the driver's side and maybe 1/4" on the passenger side (to the wheel well metal). The larger space on the drivers side is to allow room for the rear wiring which will lie in that space before dipping thru the grommet near the most rear. NOTE: Be sure that you open up the wood at the location of the grommet so as to clear and lie flat on the floor.
4) At this point, I drilled 1/8" starter holes thru the wood/metal floor and put nails thru each hole after drilling to hold the board in place thru all the hole drilling. I drilled holes for 10 locations (5 on each side). Note: be careful in selecting the locations for the holes, since you don't want to hit any critical components just below the floor, and in my installation, I had to ensure I was able to install screws from below the floor at each location! This took a lot of 'down and up' (for an old guy it hurts!)... https://www.trifive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
5) with all the location holes drilled, I then removed the wood so I could prep the holes for the pronged stainless barrel nuts (1/4-20). The barrel required a 5/16" hole thru the wood, but before I drilled that I used a wood bit (3/4" dia) and counter sunk ~1/10" into the wood to allow room for the metal barrel nut to be flush with the wood after installation. I installed the barrel nuts and used a hammer to flush them to the wood top.
6) I then opened up the holes thru the metal floor using a bit just slightly larger than the 1/4 screw I planned to use. see photos...
Attached Thumbnailshttps://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227458&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1583644077 (https://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227458&d=1583644077)

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https://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227474&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1583644077 (https://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227474&d=1583644077)

https://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227476&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1583644077 (https://www.trifive.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227476&d=1583644077)

Belair-o
03-09-2020, 09:25 AM
I understand the trepidations! My dash was in the pre-paint stage when I drilled mine out and I had the worries. Slow and easy was the way, keeping from going too deep too fast, and having the hole saw catch. Thankfully the flange of the AC ducts provide some cover.

BamaNomad
03-09-2020, 10:02 AM
BelAir-o ?? Did you drill the holes with a 3.5" hole saw? Someone posted that they used 3-1/8" and that has me worried all over again about the 3.5"... will it be too big?.....

BamaNomad
03-09-2020, 10:15 AM
I installed SS button head 1/4-20 screws and stainless washers from under the floor today to check the retention of my cargo floorwood. I had different lengths of screws to check and it turns out the 5/8" length was perfect for 19/32 plywood and killmat on the floor, using one flat washer under the screw. If the screws protrude past the top surface of the wood, they would be visible thru the linoleum I'm planning to use on the floor. One has to admit that the button head screws and flat washers appear lots better under the floor than a protruding self-tapping screw and no dangers of scratched up hands when working under the floor! But another reason for attaching the cargo wood this way is to allow for removal of the cargo wood (should it be necessary) without destroying the expensive original linoleum!

Belair-o
03-10-2020, 05:58 AM
BelAir-o ?? Did you drill the holes with a 3.5" hole saw? Someone posted that they used 3-1/8" and that has me worried all over again about the 3.5"... will it be too big?.....
Hi Bama,
I'm pretty sure the attached was my guide (shows 3-7/8"):

10488

When I am out in the shop later, I will make sure, and post back. Regards, Doug

Belair-o
03-10-2020, 12:23 PM
Hi Bama,
Drat, well I didn't do too good in the shop. I couldn't get my eyes (or hands) on the back of the dash to measure. I did some eyeballing the front of the vent with a tape, and am thinking I used a 3-1/2" hole saw, but that's certainly not reliable for cutting your dash, and I can't remember for sure what size of hole saw I used.
Not 3-7/8" though.
To be sure of what size you need for your vents, can you measure the diameter of
the part that penetrates the dash in the back of your vent, or could you hold various hole saw sizes up the the back of your AC vent, (or PVC tubing), and see what size you really need (you could take a vent to Lowes or HD)?
I did use the template I had in the previous email, since I see in my files that I had some extra reversed prints for doing the other side of the dash.

Sorry, Doug

BamaNomad
03-10-2020, 09:48 PM
Thanks for your input Belair-o... :)

BamaNomad
07-02-2020, 08:58 PM
I've spent the last few days locating, organizing all my small parts into 3 piles (semi gloss black parts like bumper brackets, etc, red body color parts for glove box door, ash tray, garnish mouldings, etc, and 'OTHER' not sure what color but parts like the panels that attach to the roof above the liftgate which carries the tack strips...

Sanding, cleaning, priming (trying my first SPI epoxy primer), etc. I hope to get enough 'red parts' ready so I can try my hand at 'base coat' clear coat' painting for the red parts maybe this weekend; I've near sprayed base clear so I have some learning/practice to do... Trifive Richard 'may' let me use his paint booth for those parts... :)

BamaNomad
07-03-2020, 08:33 AM
is it even *possible* to paint a '57 Instrument Cluster Housing with modern urethane paints, get a nice glossy finish... without RUNS?? I've been sanding out runs from the last paint job and have no idea what kind of job I'm going to perform this time.. :)

Maybe just ignore them? since most of the runs will be on the lower portion if I paint it as it will sit in the car.. :)

and I also need to repaint the cluster in my '60 Corvette which is very similar with all the tiny nooks and curves!~

BamaNomad
07-03-2020, 05:57 PM
No suggestions?

if I paint it dry, then rubbing it out is a problem in those nooks and crannies.. and if I paint if 'wet' the runs can be a big issue..
I'm hoping someone can help me out here...?

Belair-o
07-04-2020, 05:47 AM
Hi Bama,
I am far from a painting pro. I am with you: painting such a complex surface, with nooks, and sharp corners, is tricky. For my 57, I had a pro paint some of the interior pieces, including the cluster. There were runs on the cluster, and problems with some of the garnish moldings. I did some sanding, and repainted. I painted to 'wet', making sure I kept the gun at the specified distance, and stopped spraying as quick as I reached smooth coverage. You already know all that. I wish I had a better answer, but it worked for me. Maybe someone else will have a better solution.
Regards, Doug

BamaNomad
07-04-2020, 05:52 AM
I appreciate the comments belair-o ... :)

I'm heading to my shop this morning (hopefully before it gets too hot) to reprime some parts including the cluster housing. I've never painted 'base / clear', but I'm going to try it tomorrow so I need to prime today and sand before that...

I've painted lacquer, enamel, hardened enamel, single stage urethane, and singe stage urethane with added clear in final steps, but NEVER have I sprayed base or just clear... so I'll probably screw it up again!~ :)

56ls408
07-04-2020, 07:03 PM
i'm certainly no expert the base portion to me goes on a lot like lacquer the clear is usually where you normally get the runs Maybe a small detail gun might help in the tight areas if the windshield still out might be too hard I was going to repaint my dash when I did the rest of the car but my buddy suggested hitting the existing paint with the buffer & hand rubbing turned out not perfect but ok

BamaNomad
07-05-2020, 08:48 AM
Since I've never even laid 'eyes on' BASE applied by itself (before the clear), I don't even know what it's supposed to look like, although I do understand it will have no gloss at all and (hopefully) will be evenly applied w/o runs... which makes me think it likely goes on a bit DRY? How long to wait after the base is applied before the first clear coats??

In lieu of having any experience, I'll try my best to follow the specification/applications sheets.. :)

Belair-o
07-05-2020, 11:22 AM
Hi Bama,
I have been shooting PPG 2-stage, and each time I am gonna spray, I pull out my application sheets. For the PPG base, it does have a gloss finish. The base sheets say 2-3 coats or until hiding is achieved, and lists the time between coats (varies by additives); that way, one doesn't have to flood it for coverage, but lays on coats, and sneaks up on it. For the PPG clear, it is 2 wet coats, again, so one can kind of sneak up on it. But like 56ls408 said, the base is thinner, while the clear is heavier, which makes it easier to get runs.
Good luck! Doug

BamaNomad
07-06-2020, 04:45 AM
I went over the 30+ parts yesterday afternoon with 400 grit paper, then red and then gray scuff pads; I think (hope) it'll be ok once I get some paint on it. I took the parts over to TriFiveRichard's shop later yesterday and got them all in the dry between the showers here. This morning I've got to stop by the PPG paint store and get additional activator, and maybe a 1.4 tip (if they have one for my devilbiss guns - I've got 1.3 and 1.5 but no 1.4). that will be a 'just in case I need it' purchase, and then head back to his shop to clean, and hang the parts.. and then hopefully to get some COLOR (very Red) and some SHINE on them... :)

I'll post some photos if it isn't a complete failure.. :)

BamaNomad
07-06-2020, 08:16 PM
I had a long day today - 6 hrs cleaning hanging and spraying around 30 parts to my car, and after getting home I spent another 3 hrs doing yardwork (mowing, weedeating, blowing off concrete)..

My first time spraying base / clear urethane; results are mixed.. as I had 2 or 3 parts with significant runs. that'll be fun trying to get them out or repainting later- time will tell~ Can you guys recommend a good 'small buffer' (a one handed item for doing these smaller parts?)..

I think most of the runs came on my last coat of clear... I wanted to spray out the mix and I was SO VERY HOT in my tyvek suit, 90+ F for around 3 hrs... I was hurrying.. Here are a few photos of my hanging parts after spraying. I'll pick up the parts on Wednesday probably and then try to clean up the overspray in Richard's paint booth! :)

Belair-o
07-07-2020, 05:28 AM
Hi Bama,
Lots of work done!
Sorry about the runs, hopefully not on the instrument cluster? Not sure how one could buff runs on that complex surface. I bought this small buffer to work on my dash and other tight areas, and have been happy with it (chose it to match one a pro had):
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TRL12A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Regards, Doug

BamaNomad
07-07-2020, 06:18 AM
Thanks Belair-o... Yep I let my impatience and being HOT get to me at the end!~ :) I'm going to look for a 'less expensive' version of small polisher...although the one you bought looks great! :)

Custer55
07-07-2020, 06:48 AM
I have only used a base clear a couple of times after I did some repairs on my 2007 GMC pick up (rust and deer damage). My experience was the base was pretty easy to spray and went on smoothly. The clear was hard to get to layout smooth without getting runs in it. I would just try to sand out the runs if you can. A small fine file works to get the high spot of the runs without damaging the surrounding area, or a small sanding block. You can make a block out of wood and shape to what you need also. If your lucky you can get the runs sanded and buffed without having to re-shoot the clear. worst case you have to sand it all out and start over. What you have done looks great in the pictures.
Keep at it, you'll get there.
Brian

LEE T
07-07-2020, 06:11 PM
is it even *possible* to paint a '57 Instrument Cluster Housing with modern urethane paints, get a nice glossy finish... without RUNS??

Sorry I'm late to the party, but yes it is possible. I prefer to use single stage for this, and this is as it came out of the gun, no runs, no orange peel. I did sand and buff the rest of the dash though. Red doesn't seem to be screen friendly, at least on my screen.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x533q90/r/923/lzqpld.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x533q90/r/923/Xyw7n0.jpg

BamaNomad
07-07-2020, 08:01 PM
That looks great Lee... I've always *preferred* single stage also - mostly because it can look more like lacquer (when properly sanded/buffed/polished) but this car body was painted base clear (two stage) and I've got 35 or so smaller parts which need to match.

PS. I picked up my painted parts today and miraculously, the instrument cluster housing looks pretty good (no runs spotted as yet)!~ but I did get signficant runs on some long garnish mouldings ... several parts which I will need to carefully sand off and buff... I've done this before with single stage but never with clear coat...?

LEE T
07-08-2020, 02:17 AM
Don't worry about it, single stage is just clear with some color added to it. Harold Louisiana use to have lacquer on the exterior, and SS imron on the interior, he did that so he didn't have to sand and buff, he even did the door jams that way. If the back side needs paint, I like do that first, then mask it off and use props for small parts. I also sand the color coat and reapply, that makes it flow out better, although you have to be more careful about sand throughs with base clear. Its a bitch being this particular.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/712x534q90/r/922/PSVD0y.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/712x534q90/r/923/Sv9IVz.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/712x534q90/r/924/VOnFrH.jpg

BamaNomad
07-08-2020, 04:46 AM
Lee, your instrument cluster and garnish mouldings are superb; shows what a fine hand you have with your spray gun for sure~ I was much better with the gun 30 yrs ago than I am now - my vision is pretty poor which makes it difficult now (several eye surgeries and bad cataract surgery decision on my part - I chose to do monovision correction which was a big mistake on my part!)

Harold did suggest doing that (urethane on the jambs, etc) before lacquer on the outer surfaces.. While helping a good buddy with his '55 convertible back around 90-91, he would call Harold and talk to him.. We did the whole car following Harold's book calling him when we wanted more information! It was pretty interesting when we took it to it's first show (CCCI International convention in Nashville - 1992?) His '55 was high point car at the show (beat Harold's '57 by a point or two)... :) Harold was a good guy, always helpful when we called and talked to him...

Did you add extra clear to your last coats of single stage? :)

LEE T
07-08-2020, 06:07 AM
I talked to him a few times also, the last I heard he sold everything and was in some country doing missionary work or something like that. He was really bummed over the way CCCI made so much money on his book, and only paid him wages, that's why he did the second book himself, but there was a difference in the quality of pictures and the book in general. Originally even loose leaf.

On the props, I like to use them when doing something that I want to come out very good, its just hard to do that with them hanging on a wire, even when using another wire to hold it steady. No I didn't add extra clear on the last coat, although it is a good idea on the exterior for more uv protection.

BamaNomad
07-08-2020, 06:54 AM
I noticed (and LIKED) your props used to paint your parts. *Some* (but not all) of the problems I had this week spraying the base/clear for the first time was due to the part not being stable (I did use a handheld wire to hold some of them - or tried to); my biggest problem was my visibility of the 'flow' when spraying (which I just can't see any more).

BamaNomad
07-10-2020, 05:35 AM
Well I purchased an inexpensive little one hand air driven sander/polisher this week with 1, 2, and 3" pads for sanding and for polishing. The inexpensive 'nature' of it came into play a couple of times when it would just 'stop working' for a bit.. but after giving it a rest and 'playing' with the air speed adjustment, it would again begin working. I spent a day or two trying it on my newly painted small parts with some Strata machine cutting compound, and some polishes in trying to see if my parts were 'salvageable'. Results are mixed so far...

I tried sanding out some of the worst runs in a couple of parts, and after trying 1000 grit paper without much good h happening, I went to 600 grit and ended up going thru the paint a couple of places.

QUESTION: Most of these parts have so many tight curves is it a mistake on my part to TRY to sand out runs with 600 paper? I noticed with 1000 the cutting is so much slower I'm guessing that's the safe way to do it... On a couple of parts I sanded with the 1000, then 1500, and then 2000 and then the machine rubbing compound and those are coming out halfway OK... Any suggestions you guys that do this all the time can make for me, I'd really appreciate.

The parts I sanded thru on happened on the 2nd day AFTER painting. is that TOO SOON ? I have noticed that I haven't sanded thru since waiting another day and using the 1000 as my most coarse paper (and wet sanding). I've decided that any of these parts I have to repaint, will be repainted using single stage! I really am encountering problems I've never had before with these base/clear parts and I know it's a problem when one goes thru just the clear coat, and it seems with the 'two layers' of paint that it's easier to sand thru them as they are each more thin coats?

Lee: Re your special stands you made for painting your small parts. Did you make those stands for ALL of the small parts from your cars? I had over 30 parts to paint (and that's not all of them), and I had several issues regarding coverage and/or runs because of trying to paint them hanging. Again, any tips you can provide, I'd really appreciate.. :)

LEE T
07-10-2020, 07:05 AM
Gary, I only made those props for parts I wanted to come out extra good. The garnish moldings lay on a wood 2x2 that is bolted to the stands, and there are others made of foam, it just eliminates a lot of these uneven application problems, but I do use the wire hooks also.

You need to put all the painted parts out in the sun for a day. One day in the sun is equal to 7 days in the shop normally, but the sun is intense now. The best thing to do with runs is to just open the run with sand paper, then put it in the sun. The problem is that you sand it flat before it cures, then a couple of months later its low where the run was. Some guys like to wait a couple months before touching fresh paint for show quality results. After cure, you can cover the run with two inch masking tape then sand it. I also use nib files, but its easy to gouge with them until you learn how to use them, but festool makes a scraper that I like most of all.

https://youtu.be/dR4iKZvX53c

Two coats is really not enough to cut and buff, and still leave enough for uv protection--if you don't sand through--but that is not such a big deal on interior parts. To cut and buff you need three or four coats.

The best thing to do with the interior moldings with all the tight turns and what not, even the straight ones, is to spray them so they don't need to be sanded.

BamaNomad
07-10-2020, 02:38 PM
Lee, That festool appears to be a neat little gadget (and I could use one).. O'Reilly's has them for $110... :) By weight that comes out to about $2000/lb... :)

LEE T
07-10-2020, 04:20 PM
I looked on line and found three vendors that have it for $76, and that gets it down to a very reasonable $1400/lb. Toolnuts website says he will ship it free, if your total order is over $100.

LEE T
07-10-2020, 04:30 PM
Toolnut also has 10 reviews on it, 9 out of 10 gave it 5 stars.
https://www.toolnut.com/festool-497525-carbide-spot-repair-scraper.html

BamaNomad
07-10-2020, 07:22 PM
That's probably worthwhile simply in terms of saved time in removing runs and sags... :)

BamaNomad
07-11-2020, 06:26 AM
I ordered one of those Festool 497525 tools today Lee... $76 plus tax; free ground shipping. I'll let you know how quickly I get it from NY... :)
Thanks for letting me know about that tool! :)

LEE T
07-11-2020, 07:10 AM
I'll admit thats still expensive for what it is--pound for pound, but I like it better than anything else. Hope it works for you, but stop making so many runs.https://s.yimg.com/nq/yemoji_assets/latest/yemoji_assets/1f62d.png Try spraying faster with more passes, if it was larger panels I would say more overlap. You can get your 1mil per coat that way by building up to it.

Can't say enough about the props, you might be able to make them quicker than getting rid of the runs. A lot of mine are just a way to raise the part a little so I can lay it out on a table, just needs to be high enough so you can get to the edges. Some are formed with foam and covered with paper.

BamaNomad
07-11-2020, 08:29 AM
You're right... the BEST SOLUTION is to NOT have the problem (NO runs!).. :) but between my poor eyesight, never enough LIGHT, and not being familiar with the base/clear paint... That's probably not going to happen for me (but I do prefer doing ALL my own work).. I think I'll just paint anything that I PAINT in the future with single stage (adding some clear into the final coats) which I'm more familiar with doing and less danger of sanding/cutting thru.. :)

And when my '55 Nomad (metallic regal turquoise) has to be painted... I suppose I'll have to find a base/clear expert to paint that one!~ :)

My 'other' '57 Nomad orig color is tropical turquoise/ivory - non metallic), so it'll get single stage.. and I'll try that one myself.

LEE T
07-11-2020, 10:12 AM
You sure can't spray without adequate lighting, and the older you get the more light you need. I bought this spray gun light about a year ago, but I've been doing all metal work, so I haven't used it yet.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1668479083201552&t=1

There is also this one on Amazon for a lot less. I can't really comment on either one.
https://www.amazon.com/GunBudd-Universal-Spray-Lighting-System/dp/B07XKF3HXL

You know painting is like anything else, it takes a lot of practice to be good. You don't need a booth for practice, but you do need good equipment. I have 5000rp Sata and Iwata spray guns, but the Iwata suits me better, just my style.

Its fun spending your money, let me know when you run out.

BamaNomad
07-11-2020, 07:52 PM
Hey Lee!~ I've got one of those 'headset lights' I never use.. I think it would strap around my paint cup~ Instead of being a COB/LED spray gun lamp, it would be a Bama Cobbled spray gun lamp~ :)

LEE T
07-12-2020, 04:03 AM
I have heard that Strap-ons were never as good as the real thing.:D
When you repurpose something check the weight, which can be an issue during long painting sessions, and how solvent friendly is it, you have to be able to clean it. Will the lens scratch when cleaning is also something to think about.

BamaNomad
07-16-2020, 06:34 AM
Lee... I will leave any discussion of the pros/cons of strap ons to you ... :)

BamaNomad
07-16-2020, 06:42 AM
Getting back to my Nomad project, there was some discussion on installing tack strips .. and I've decided to proceed and install mine now (I can't think of anything I can screw up on that task (but I'm sure if it's possible, I'll find it!~).. :)

Michael Domaracki has suggested doing it early, so I'm thinking there's nothing preventing me from installing it all now. My 'tabs' are all in good shape; the channels were painted pretty well when the car was painted; I remember several prior threads where various techniques were suggested: ie. sand the backside and GLUE them in and use the tabs and even sheet metal screws or rivets to further hold in place...

I have several different types of adhesive.. (weldwood contact adhesive, 3M super weatherstrip adhesive, and something called Flex glue- which I've never used) -see photo. After sanding with coarse paper (40-100?) which of the adhesives would you fellas recommend for glueing? Given that I have good tabs, should I also add rivets or sheet metal screws?

is it better to bend over the tabs quickly (wtih a plastic hammer?) or slowly (with constant pressure?) since I know some might break off if done the wrong way?

BamaNomad
07-16-2020, 08:56 AM
Does ANYONE sell reproduction parts or kits that are complete, with instructions that match the parts, and that match the car's requirements???? I'm beginning to think NOT... :(

I ran into the FIRST issue when checking the contents of the #11778 'Nomad tack strip kit' versus the 'instructions' (as they exist - see photo for the 'instructions')...

55-57 Nomad Tack Strip #11778 - Contents do not match the listing:

(1) 50"x1/8" for top of windshield (OK -got this one)
(2) 9" x 1/8" for top of rear door opening (below the beltline) - Got this one too
(2) 9" x 1/8" for door glass - don't have this one and have no idea where it would go on a Nomad door? HELP???
(2) 58"x 3/8" for above quarter windows - Got these..
(2) 16"x 3 /8" for rear of door opening (from floor up) - ????
(2) 28" x 3/8" for behind FRONT doors - ????
(2) 39" x 3/8" for over door windows... OK
(1) 48" x 3/8" for over liftgate. OK...


The ones with problems or questions have questions in RED..
(2) 9" x 1/8" for door glass - don't have this one and have no idea where it would go on a Nomad door? HELP???
(2) 16"x 3 /8" for rear of door opening (from floor up) - ????
(2) 28" x 3/8" for behind FRONT doors - ????

1. There are locations (~ 16-18" long) with tabs to the right and left of the Tailgate, but no parts identified in the kit???
2) Do Nomad doors (or glass?) really have a need for a tack strip??
The 16" pieces and 28" pieces are both identified for 'rear of, or behind' the 'front doors'.. (All Nomad doors are FRONT).. :)

Behind the door opening, from the beltline down, there seems to be a 9" length for 1/8" tack strips, then a longer area below that to the floor for a thicker strip (3/8"). WHO knows what this really should be??

55 Rescue Dog
07-16-2020, 03:30 PM
I too would like to know more about these tack strip things. All I know is I have like hundreds of sharp pointy things sticking straight out, and I don't know what to do with them yet. I have several scars to prove it.

BamaNomad
07-16-2020, 06:24 PM
Those tabs push down over the tack strip to hold the tackstrip in place... but be careful because I'm sure they won't take an indefinite number of times being 'bent', and they've been bent once in the factory and at least bent UP once to remove the orig tack strip.

BamaNomad
07-17-2020, 06:49 AM
I too would like to know more about these tack strip things. All I know is I have like hundreds of sharp pointy things sticking straight out, and I don't know what to do with them yet. I have several scars to prove it.

To give a better answer for how to avoid 'scars' from them, I'd suggest going ahead and installing the tack strips and push them down over the tackstrips to hold them in place. but I would NOT bend them again until then... ?

PS. I understand that the plastic strips are available in rolls or lengths which should be much cheaper than these 'so called' kits that the vendors sell for $75-80... then you can cut your own as required.