'57 210 Del-Ray 2 Door Sedan Build & Story

[SonicRaT]

Greetings folks,

This is a cross-post from that "other" forum -- ChevyNut enlightened me a while back that there was also another community, so figured I'd share my build progress here as well. Plus, it gives ChevyNut a chance to see what all my pestering him has resulted in. :D


The Story
Around the time I was 14 in '97, my father invited me along to check out a '55 Bel-Air HT a coworker had mentioned. This was rather exciting for me as I always loved the shoebox Chevy's and such things were usually reserved for my older brother. We drove out to the middle of nowhere in the U.P. (that's upper Michigan, for you uninitiated folk) to check it out. Unfortunately, there wasn't much left. The car had been converted to a stock car some time before and most of what remained had been scavenged or hacked apart considerably. Feeling a bit disappointed, we started to leave when I noticed the rear fin of a '57 stick out around the side of a building. My curiosity got the better of me and I walked over to check it out.


What sat before me was a rather complete, '57 210 2-door sedan, with a plethora of extra side moldings, bumpers, carpet, and other parts cluttering up the interior area. The car was sitting in primer and looked decent to my rather inexperienced 14 year old mind.


I had to have it.


After about 30 minutes of begging and pleading, my father managed to negotiate an amicable sale price of $1,200 and off we went with our new toy.


Unfortunately, in a family of 7 living in rural Michigan, we didn't have a whole lot of money to toss toward the old girl, so she sat in the garage waiting for a number of years. However, it became kind of a bonding point for my father and I, as we would often find ourselves in the garage seeing if we could get it to start again or debating over what color it should. However, that didn't stop him from trying to abandon the project at times. There were multiple occasions where he expected we would never get to it and tried to sell it. However, I would intercept all of the interested phone calls and promptly inform them it was SOLD and to bugger off. I wasn't about to let it get away from me! It was one of the few things we had that would bring us together, as we often struggled to find common ground -- I was a nerdy, brain of a kid obsessed with reading encyclopedias, physics, and so forth, and he was a mechanic interested in how much compression he could squeak out of his 454...


This is what the car looked like a few years after we had picked it up, we really didn't do much at all other than get it running and drive it around the yard, so this is a good reflection of what I convinced him to buy for me.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/0507_002_zpswiu9wxnp.jpg


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/0507_001_zpshdzzpbxo.jpg


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/0507_004_zps4ig4v50k.jpg


Fate was against me, however, and he was killed in a work accident in early 2000. To cope, I fled the area and the car to get away from the constant reminders that he was gone. I returned a little bit later, determined to finish what we had started, but I was rather lost as I was depending upon his experience to help me through. But, I was determined to figure it out. So, I slowly began stripping the car and prepping to pull the frame out from below. That's when I began to notice that the body wasn't quite as straight as I remembered it being at 14...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/1225_003_zpswjfx5gp4.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/1225_005_zpsho3s3lkb.jpg


But, I trucked on anyway, and got it ready to pull from the frame.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/DCP_0370_zpsvdv9hkvv.jpg


However, fate was once again not on my side and my brother blew the engine in his truck, requiring me to put the '57 on hold temporarily... Unfortunately, by the time I regained access to the garage I was embroiled in a legal battle over who was going to take ownership of the garage and the project sat for years once more untouched, until I lost the garage in its entirety. Feeling extremely depressed, I was forced to abandon the car under a lean-to sitting in a field, fearing I may never get to it.


Here it is being loaded up to be moved to the field, which I thought might very well be the last time I got to see it...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_0597_zpsgtrgmmd2.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_0596_zpsef8rpqip.jpg

However, a few years later, I managed to buy a house with a garage (albeit, much smaller) for the sole purpose of finally getting my '57 built.


On my wedding day, my sister and her husband brought the car down and dropped it off. Here it is in its new home, next to my '94 Mazda RX-7.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161023_144117_zps9ij0hgw5.jpg


So, I'm determined to get this thing done and finished before tragedy befalls me once more.


So, I've set out a basic list of goals:


Stock, Bel-Air Exterior, painted Montego Blue (I keep changing my mind here....)
Stock appearance interior -- ie, no "modern" looking seats UPDATE: went with '63 Impala SS buckets
LQ4 w/T56 maintaining EFI -- debating on stroking to 408 or going twin-turbo (I have a tendency to turbo everything I touch)
C4 Suspension (Thanks ChevyNut! :D )
Mini-Tubs




I've employed the expertise of CLASSIC EDGE DESIGNS (www.classicedgedesigns.com (http://www.classicedgedesigns.com)) to put together the frame. Laszlo has been incredibly patient with me and an absolute joy to work with as he constantly endures my idiocy.


With the frame underway, I set off to analyze my situation and determine what all I'm going to need. I didn't quite expect the can of worms I encountered.




The floor felt plenty solid years ago with the carpet in place. However, after removing the carpet it became obvious that the prior owners had installed a number of patches -- poorly. They simply installed panels over the existing floor and left what remained to rot away.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161102_203641_zpsj7wqci4i.jpg
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http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161105_220957_zpsm2tppnvm.jpghttp://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161102_203452_zpsp3mbptik.jpg


A full floor will be necessary. The toe boards are solid all the way to the original seam, so I'm happy I won't have to do any fabrication or patching there.


The trunk had a rather well done patch in place, but again, it simply hid more bad news. The entire rear drip section, along with the trunk brace and body mounts are completely gone. Additionally, rust is lurking all along the inner wheel quarter panels, on both the wheel wells and the quarters...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161102_203417_zps34fxdhij.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161102_203352_zps4hqhk1aj.jpg


Additionally, when I began investigating the rather poor quarter panel surfaces, i discovered the previous owner installed new quarter skins... on-top of the original quarters...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161105_215952_zpshzw97rjd.jpg


I'm waiting for the new frame before I begin any major body surgery, as I'm unsure of how straight and true the current frame is. In the meantime, I've been torn over how I should go about repairing this. Both quarters are almost entirely unsalvageable, so I'll need to replace both -- I'm torn on if I should patch in the HT panels everyone seems to be using or if I should install the factory sedan panels that are available now. Additionally, my inner quarters are in extremely poor shape. Where they attach to the inner rockers is rusted out, the drain areas are rusted, the wheel wells are essentially falling out, and the rear panels at the trunk are almost completely gone. I can't decide if I should patch all of this or replace the entire inner quarter with the pre-tubbed ones, since I plan on going with the pre-tubbed floor anyway. Finding experience with the fitment and quality on those is rather difficult, so I may have to play a guinea pig.

[SonicRaT]

Decided to free up some space by migrating the RX-7 to the other garage, which will allow me to section off the workshop garage for blasting and other "dirty" work. Hopefully it doesn't mind keeping company with the Subarus.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161126_223851_zpskkiwmxln.jpg


Back to the car, I noticed the rear fin was starting to separate from the metal underneath. After a little exploring, I found yet another example of a poor fix. The whole fin area came out as one giant chunk of body filler...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161126_214230_zpsgyjw97eq.jpg
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Moving on, I pulled out the rear window to inspect the pinch welds and try to get a better idea of the assembly where the inner quarter, outer quarter, and filler panel come together. Melted the lead out of the rear seams and I think I've got a decent idea of how the panels come together, but accessibility to some of the spot welds looks to be extremely difficult. Also got a better shot of the rot coming through in the top of the inner quarter.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161127_002730_zps4fp6jzwi.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161126_233318_zpsi14uns9o.jpg


There's also some heavy pitting inside the roof along the drivers side, with a large area that appears to have been patched previously. I'll be stripping the roof tomorrow to hopefully assess what will need to be done there.


I tUnfortunately, a lot of the parts I had acquired previously (trim, lights, bumpers, etc) were all misplaced or lost when I was forced to downsize and move out of my father's garage, so it was a bit frustrating buying things I knew I once had. Parts can't seem to get here fast enough!


Finished stripping the hood and spent an hour with a hammer and dolly knocking out all of the dents I came across. Looking pretty straight now.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161203_182429_zps4o1zi28r.jpg


Unfortunately, as I began stripping the trunk I encountered even more body filler. It looks like someone tried to hammer the license plate stands in to make them flush with the rest of the trunk, which bent in a good portion of the remaining trunk face. Also, they've installed a patch along the bottom lip that sits above the layer of the other metal. It's a shame, as the rest of the trunk is in decent shape -- there's no rot or other issues anywhere. I may end up needing to just get a new lid. I may cut the skin off and see if I can straighten any of it to a respectable degree. It was hard to get a picture of just how bad it was and how much bondo there was on it.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161202_195440_zpskfhrxsba.jpg


I spent some time going back and forth on if I wanted to repair my existing inner quarters or replace them, so I began pulling up the old patch panels the previous owner put in place to see what I had to work with. Unfortunately, there was nearly nothing left underneath.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161202_195359_zps7mstzosz.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20161202_195342_zpsyz8b15wd.jpg


My plan moving forward will be to replace the entire floor first, clamping to as much of the existing material as possible. Afterwards, I'll begin replacing one side at a time -- both the inner and outer quarters. My next project will be fabricating a jig to keep all of the panels aligned accordingly.


Also, my doors are likely going to need a bit of attention as well. The inner structures are in very good condition. However, it looks like they were skinned at one point with a 3/4 skin -- leaving an overlap of approximately 2-3 inches. Externally, it looks OK, though I'm fearful of rust creeping in and the seam showing up, so I'll strip those down and inspect and possibly look into reskinning the doors entirely.

[SonicRaT]

The frame arrived around the start of May and the result was worth the wait. Laszlo did one heck of a job on it and spent so much time filling already that there's not a whole lot left for me to do on it -- I may just spray a few more coats of SPI on it and call it a day, as I like the contrast of black with the body color I'll be going with (Montego Blue).


I've also acquired a hoard of parts. Some of the big ticket items include:


Full factory sedan quarter panels
Full inner quarter panels (tubbed)
Full floor w/ trunk (tubbed -- more on this below)
New trunk to replace my poorly repaired, beat-up monstrosity
Almost all new stainless all around (primarily so I can test the lines as I'm replacing panels)
'63 Impala SS bucket seats
American Racing Torq Thrust "M" Anthracite wheels (17x9, 6.77" backspacing -- will be running 245/40R17 up front and 275/40R17 in the rears)


As for the floor, since I need to replace both inner quarters and my entire floor, I figured I might as well install the pre-tubbed option and give myself some room down the line for fat rear tires. While I was quite impressed with the quality on the inner quarters, I was a bit disappointed with the pre-tubbed floor. Rather than flanging the edge along the tub seams, they simply cut the floor to the tub width, and expect you to stitch weld the floor seam rather than spot-welding along a mating flange. While not that much of a headache, I was a bit disappointed that this was the route they took -- I could've done as much on my own and likely saved some bucks.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170202_143250_zpsarj59guj.jpg
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With the frame finally here, I set out unboxing, organizing, and stripping the donor C4 suspension components.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170428_181054_zps2yojqd9u.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170430_184428_zpsdbqvtbgd.jpg


The frame has late C4 components all around and I'm kicking myself for not having done a bit more research before going the "cheap" route of a Dana 36. Unfortunately, it's equipped with a 2.59 gear which will not pair well with the T56 I have planned for the car and aftermarket gear sets will nearly cost me what I could have spent on the D44 -- another of those live and learn moments. Found a shop nearby that works on a boatload of jeep differentials and is willing to do the gear swap on my Dana 36 for a steal -- may put that off until after the floor has been swapped which will give me some room back in the garage.


While waiting for parts, I've been spending my free time cleaning up the suspension components. Eventually I will probably have them sent off to be powder coated, but for now a quick clean and a polish has things looking considerably better.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170511_192622_zpsyuksteff.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170511_192649_zps90dqbcok.jpg


As you can see, I'm stuck with some tight quarters at the moment. Things have overflowed into my attached garage and into the basement...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170506_223824_zpsix8rwq3w.jpg

[SonicRaT]

Once the coil-overs finally arrived, I set out to assemble the suspension. Bellow is the setup I settled upon:


QA1 DS402 w/ 10HT450 springs up front -- using the 3.5" QA1 T-bar for the lower mount and the poly eyelet mount up top
QA1 DS501 W/ 12HT400 springs in the rear -- using spherical bearings instead of bushings for the rear


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170531_224758_zps8sdgwru1.jpg


Unfortunately, the springs were too narrow for any of my compressors, so I had to order a new set and wait. When they finally came in, I ran into a host of problems with the suspension components interfering at full ride height. A quick call to Laszlo and a good bit of measuring later, we realized I didn't have any caster/camber shims installed. Tossed in some 1/8" shims and it solved the problem.

Also discovered the box of goodies Laszlo sent with the frame I had forgot about -- which included motor mounts and all of the assorted bolts and hardware. I had already picked up a set of C5 mounts for my RX-7 and transferred them to the '57 -- so it was nice seeing that I won't have to buy another set!


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170620_004457_zpsmbhu8wjj.jpg


I've come to the realization that I have a tendency to plan way too far ahead to the point that I'm acquiring an endless assortment of parts by means of justification. For example, my next step was going to be mounting the new factory floor to the frame once it was rolling, then start working on replacing the floor. However, I realized that the T56 often interferes with the floor. So, I figured I might as well go pick up the engine so I can mock everything up. I keep "justifying" more parts under the guise that once I start assembly, I'll need this part and that part to verify proper fitment. Needless to say, I have a nearly constant stream of boxes arriving every day and have probably acquired an entire car in parts by now.... :D


So, on to the engine. A local yard had an LQ4 laying around that was "supposed" to be grade "A" quality with a little over 100k miles on the clock. So, I went and picked it up and they were nice enough to toss in the unmolested harness as well so I can reloom it into a standalone.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170615_222934_zpstyikfvlt.jpg


So, I began tearing it down in hopes that I'd be able to clean it up, replace the gaskets, and run it as-is for a summer until I could devote more effort in its direction and build a stroked 408. Unfortunately, the junkyards definition of "grade A" differed rather significantly from mine.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170617_180815_zpsl8cqoczs.jpg
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Looked like it had been sitting a LONG time and acquired some water in the cylinders during the process. THANKFULLY, I was able to clean up all of the cylinders with just a scotch brite and NO pitting of any kind was left behind -- even the carbon deposits and glazing came off to reveal the original GM crosshatching underneath.


I'm currently undecided if I'll just run the stock bottom end with a wild cam for now and settle somewhere in the 425hp range or if i want to bite the bullet and stroke it to 408 and aim for 600. I unfortunately don't get out as much as I used to, so track days are few and far between -- even autocross has become a rarity as of late, so I might just settle for now... Decisions appear to never end on this build.




Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to mount the rear suspension and get the wheels on. From there I'll toss the LQ4/T56 back on the frame and see what type of transmission tunnel modifications I'll need to make before finally moving onto the floor replacement.

[chevynut]

Great story SonicRat! Glad to see you're moving along so well on it.

[WagonCrazy]

Welcome to the brotherhood of "learn by doing" car guys. Dig your story man...you and that car have come a long way, and you have a solid build plan going forward.

You made one comment that cracked me up:
Laszlo has been incredibly patient with me and an absolute joy to work with as he constantly endures my idiocy.

I laughed not because of your self incriminating statement, but because a few others here have their opinion of Laszlo, and it's not the same as yours. (Full Disclosure-He built my frame too)

So anyhow, CARRY ON with that build and keep posting progress and we'll all chime in with our suggestions as needed.

This website needs 100 other guys like you to GET MOVING on their projects.

Cheers and beers!

Paul

[SonicRaT]

I laughed not because of your self incriminating statement, but because a few others here have their opinion of Laszlo, and it's not the same as yours. (Full Disclosure-He built my frame too)

Hah -- yeah, I've seen some examples of that. Seems like he's pretty straight forward and no-nonsense, which works fine for me. So far he's put up with my questions, which is all I could ask. :D


As for the car, spent some time trying to clean up the suspension parts but ran out of aluminum brightener. Threw some blocks in the rear to hold the suspension up while I wait for the spherical bearings for the QA1s. Been trying to get the floor mounted, but the weather hasn't been agreeing with me. Starting to actually look like something...

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170621_234200_zpsmfpzifaa.jpg

[SonicRaT]

Moved the frame over to the other garage to install the new floor -- not fun pushing that thing up the incline...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170625_202842_zpsb5tquyq3.jpg




The QA1 bearings showed up, so I installed the rear coilovers.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170626_212242_zps37rr6heb.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170626_212316_zps7bst6369.jpg




Afterwards, finally installed the floor.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170627_190714_zpsr0y0qwr2.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170627_191625_zps5fxbzi8v.jpg


Unfortunately, it did not fit well. The rear passenger floor pans are hitting the AME center section, which is causing the most of the body mounts to sit roughly 1/2" too high. I expected the C4 doglegs to interfere -- for those I'll fabricate some reliefs into the wheel tubs. I'm unsure of what to do with the other issue though. I'm considering bolting everything down tight, using a floor jack and a 2x4 to lift the transmission tunnel to try to get clearance back on the floor pans. Not even sure what to measure to figure out where the pan is having issues...


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170627_191658_zps26nuj4sv.jpg
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[chevynut]

As I mentioned in e-mail we've built 6-8 frames now with AME center sections and nobody has said they've had any problems with the floor. Wagoncrazy has one of our frames with an AME center section and I think it fits fine. Maybe he'll chime in and offer some input. I suspect your floor is either designed differently or it's malformed or bent. Not sure what else it could be.

[SonicRaT]

As I mentioned in e-mail we've built 6-8 frames now with AME center sections and nobody has said they've had any problems with the floor. Wagoncrazy has one of our frames with an AME center section and I think it fits fine. Maybe he'll chime in and offer some input. I suspect your floor is either designed differently or it's malformed or bent. Not sure what else it could be.


Yeah, I suspect my floor got mangled in shipping or by design -- I don't think I've received an aftermarket panel yet that hasn't been bent or mangled in some manner. Not quite sure how to go about getting it where it "needs" to be other than some guesswork by just forcing the center of the floor up enough to gain the clearance I need.

[WagonCrazy]

Sorry to hear about your floorpan fitment situation. On mine, (with the stock floorpanel), it fits well with the AME center section. Here's some pics of my frame just for comparison...

7402

7403

[SonicRaT]

WagonCrazy -- thanks, looks like we have more or less the same setup as far as the frame goes . Any idea how much clearance you have on the passenger pans to the center section? I suspect I'll just need to bend that area up into compliance.

[chevynut]

SR, I did some measuring today on my floor, which is not original and came from CARS (Sherman). It's a 2-piece floor and I don't have an AME center section but my mufflers are back there and they don't extend above or below the frame. The mufflers are 4" tall, the same as the AME rails.

Putting a straightedge across the rear body mounts (last long brace) I get 4" up to the bottom of the brace in the driveshaft tunnel. Putting a straightedge across the bottom of the rocker pinch weld I get 7 3/8" at the rear brace, and 6 7/8" at the next long brace forward. Hope that helps you figure out the problem.

[SonicRaT]

SR, I did some measuring today on my floor, which is not original and came from CARS (Sherman). It's a 2-piece floor and I don't have an AME center section but my mufflers are back there and they don't extend above or below the frame. The mufflers are 4" tall, the same as the AME rails.

Putting a straightedge across the rear body mounts (last long brace) I get 4" up to the bottom of the brace in the driveshaft tunnel. Putting a straightedge across the bottom of the rocker pinch weld I get 7 3/8" at the rear brace, and 6 7/8" at the next long brace forward. Hope that helps you figure out the problem.


Cool -- I'm stuck in Chicago until tomorrow evening, but I'll check it out as soon as I get home and see where the problem is. As I mentioned in the e-mail, it does "look" as if my center is squished down a bit, to the extent that I think if the floor pan were set on a level surface, the rear "toe board" area would pretty much be on the ground at the level of the rocker pinch weld. Those measurements should help me get a good idea of where it's out of alignment. All of the mount holes line up, so I'll be able to at least bolt it in place to make any adjustments.

[SonicRaT]

Chevynut -- I wasn't exactly sure how you did your measurements. For your first measurement -- did you place the straight edge along the bottom of the brace itself, so that it measured from the tunnel to what would be the top of the mount itself, or did you place it along the mount plate?

For the others referencing the pinch weld -- how did you deal with the frame being in the way to get a reference? At first I was thinking the pinch weld hung below the frame and I could just use a 2x4 or something underneath and measure up from the center, but I quickly discovered the frame is lower, so I wasn't sure if you just measured it against the frame position or if you did something else.

For the rear most brace, I measured 5" from the top of the AME rails to the bottom of the tunnel brace. The next brace forward measured at 4.5" to the top of the AME, and about 8 3/4" to the bottom of the frame.

To make matters worse, I went and measured what was left of my original floor. I measured the rear foot area depth in reference to the seat decks and the transmission tunnel and everything was spot on within 1/16" of an inch for all of my comparative measurements. I even measured the depth of the foot pan relative the bottom of the brace that sits just behind it and it was spot on as well, so I'm rather stumped here. The new pan design looks exactly the same as the original, nothing seems to be stamped to a noticeably different shape or depth. If it weren't for the fact that most of these braces are completely destroyed and collapsed at the mount locations on my other body, I'd try to set that down on the frame and see what happens.

My only thinking is that the entire floor at the center brace is bent downward in the tunnel area, which is throwing off the angle of the pans causing them to tilt downwards and hence the interference -- however, everything looks "normal" as best I can tell. Perhaps I'll try to measure the angle of the tunnel itself and compare to my original floor and see if it looks like it's dipped in that region. If all else fails, I'll just try to get the floor jack under this brace and see if I can bend it up enough to get the clearance I need.

Here's a shot looking down the transmission tunnel sitting on the transmission crossmember. Notice how close even the brace is to the AME center? I wonder if WagonCrazy could get me a similar shot on his car for reference...

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170630_020737_zpsbpckbgch.jpg

Offset view of the drivers side:

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170630_020655_zpsoqf44b2q.jpg

Looking forward from the rear -- here you can see how each "foot" area behind that center brace dips down below the brace and sits on the AME rails. Even my original floor dips below the brace, so the stamping seems "normal" -- i'm just not sure if it's in the right position -- ie, if that brace is too flat and not high enough in the center.

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170630_014741_zpstfjsxikb.jpg
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170630_014659_zps8rqfjenq.jpg


EDIT: I just thought of something -- if the tunnel itself is "flattened" causing the interference -- I imagine it would have pushed the tunnel walls outwards from each other. I'll try measuring the distance between the tunnel walls on both the new and original floor tomorrow and see if theres any noticeable difference.

[WagonCrazy]

Good Pics. I'll try to get under my Nomad and get some similar pics and measurements.
Maybe later today or tomorrow. I have to move some stuff around to get it up in the air and then get under it.

[chevynut]

Chevynut -- For your first measurement -- did you place the straight edge along the bottom of the brace itself, so that it measured from the tunnel to what would be the top of the mount itself, or did you place it along the mount plate?

I put the straightedge directly on the bottom of the brace from body mount to body mount. The body is on jack stands...no frame in the way.


For the others referencing the pinch weld -- how did you deal with the frame being in the way to get a reference?

See above. :p


At first I was thinking the pinch weld hung below the frame and I could just use a 2x4 or something underneath and measure up from the center, but I quickly discovered the frame is lower, so I wasn't sure if you just measured it against the frame position or if you did something else.


You could measure from the bottom of the frame to the pinch weld, then from the bottom of the frame to the brace. Subtract. ;)


For the rear most brace, I measured 5" from the top of the AME rails to the bottom of the tunnel brace. The next brace forward measured at 4.5" to the top of the AME, and about 8 3/4" to the bottom of the frame.

Since I don't have a frame with the AME center section to measure, I don't know how to usethose measurements. The AME rails should be about 1/4" from the top of the frame. We actually set them 1/4" ABOVE the bottom of the frame. The frame is 4.5" tall and the AME rails are 4". I think you should be measuring to see if your brace is bent.



My only thinking is that the entire floor at the center brace is bent downward in the tunnel area, which is throwing off the angle of the pans causing them to tilt downwards and hence the interference

That's what I think is going on. However, 1/2" seems like a lot.



Here's a shot looking down the transmission tunnel sitting on the transmission crossmember. Notice how close even the brace is to the AME center?

"Close" is okay.....touching isn't. :)

Several other guys have used the AME center section or their own homebrew versions of it in stock frames and AME has built hundreds of them (though the frame itself is different), and nobody's reported any problems like this so I think it's your floor that's a little off. I think your idea of pushing the brace up at the driveshaft tunnel would work to fix the problem if it will bend there. I'll be interested to see how Wagoncrazy's looks. I hate to sound like a typical supplier, but "nobody else has reported this problem". :D

[SonicRaT]

I put the straightedge directly on the bottom of the brace from body mount to body mount. The body is on jack stands...no frame in the way.

That'd do it!




Since I don't have a frame with the AME center section to measure, I don't know how to usethose measurements. The AME rails should be about 1/4" from the top of the frame. We actually set them 1/4" ABOVE the bottom of the frame. The frame is 4.5" tall and the AME rails are 4". I think you should be measuring to see if your brace is bent.


I'll be trying to use the top of the frame as a reference for the brace position to measure against my original floor by placing a straight edge across in those locations and comparing to where the AME "would" be. If I can't get a good comparison that way, I'll pull the floor off the frame and try to measure it as you did and see what I come up with.




"Close" is okay.....touching isn't. :)


It does just slightly touch on the drivers side, you can barely see it in the offset view looking toward the rear.



Several other guys have used the AME center section or their own homebrew versions of it in stock frames and AME has built hundreds of them (though the frame itself is different), and nobody's reported any problems like this so I think it's your floor that's a little off. I think your idea of pushing the brace up at the driveshaft tunnel would work to fix the problem if it will bend there. I'll be interested to see how Wagoncrazy's looks. I hate to sound like a typical supplier, but "nobody else has reported this problem". :D

I'm pretty sure we're in consensus that it's not a problem with the frame, but with this stupid floor. The trick is figuring out where exactly the floor is out of spec to get it back where it needs to be. That's why I started comparing the stamping depth and things to my original floor in hopes that there would be something obviously different, but it seems to be rather subtle at the moment.

[55 Rescue Dog]

Notching/modifying the floor pan looks like the best option to me. I would guess if you called Art Morrison they would say the same thing. I see it lightly mentioned in their installation instructions. That seems too happen on other stuff I have bought I thought was to supposed to fit, only to find out you have whack something off or modify to make it fit. They don't like to print ALL the instructions.

[55 Rescue Dog]

For reference there are several good body/chassis assembly tips in their manual.
http://artmorrison.com/instructions/55ChevFrameInstructions1.pdf

[SonicRaT]

Notching/modifying the floor pan looks like the best option to me. I would guess if you called Art Morrison they would say the same thing. I see it lightly mentioned in their installation instructions. That seems too happen on other stuff I have bought I thought was to supposed to fit, only to find out you have whack something off or modify to make it fit. They don't like to print ALL the instructions.


I've read that section before:


The final minor adjustment that could be necessary is in the rear foot well near the drive shaft tunnel. This metal is very close to the inside frame support. The condition of your floor will determine whether it will come into contact with the new replacement frame. It is a good idea to glue a small strip of rubber to the top of the frame in this area to keep the body and frame from rubbing.

I would've expected the condition of a new floor to be such that it didn't come pre-sagged, but who knows with the way they handle the deliveries on these things. The goal at the moment is to figure out where it's malformed to be able to put it back to approximately where it needs to be to avoid any other further problems

[SonicRaT]

Success! The issue has been fixed.

Using a straight edge, I took measurements similarly to what chevynut did across the braces themselves and compared and contrasted with my original floor and a '55 Sedan. The rear most brace was within 1/16" to all of the measurements. The middle brace was just over 1/2" lower. The overall tunnel width was about 1/4" wider at the widest point, which was almost central to the center brace, so I figured that was my culprit. Threw a 2x4 on the floor jack, loosened the center brace mounts so they could move slightly, and then jacked up the car a bit until it took a good chunk of weight off the suspension. Afterwards, I stood with weight on either side of the transmission tunnel right at those rear floorboards, in hopes of raising the center crest of the transmission tunnel. Took two attempts and then it ended up being about 1/16" in difference. Tightened down the mount bolts and checked for clearance -- floor pans now have about 3/8" on the passenger, and just about 1/4" on the drivers side. I even went so far as to throw sand bags and salt bags on the floor to simulate passenger weight and still didn't have any problems afterwards. Looks like that fixed it.

Hard to see, but the gap is there!
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170701_004532_zpsdtxojsef.jpg

Next up will be fabricating a temporary "stand" for the body while I cut out the floor and clean up the pinch welds. I've also got a considerable degree of cleanup to do on the floor, as a lot of the edges have been beaten up.

[WagonCrazy]

Good news. I'm still going to get under my Nomad this afternoon at snap a couple of pics of the floor brace-to-center AME frame rails for ya.

[NickP]

I have a 57 here sitting on an AME frame. Body has new floor and trunk. No interference. Can I measure something for you? If you have your frame level fore and aft - port and starboard, your floor attached with new bushings, the pan at the front seat area (port to starboard) should be level along with the rear seat area on both sides of the tunnel (pretty close to level)

[NickP]

Success! The issue has been fixed.

Using a straight edge, I took measurements similarly to what chevynut did across the braces themselves and compared and contrasted with my original floor and a '55 Sedan. The rear most brace was within 1/16" to all of the measurements. The middle brace was just over 1/2" lower. The overall tunnel width was about 1/4" wider at the widest point, which was almost central to the center brace, so I figured that was my culprit. Threw a 2x4 on the floor jack, loosened the center brace mounts so they could move slightly, and then jacked up the car a bit until it took a good chunk of weight off the suspension. Afterwards, I stood with weight on either side of the transmission tunnel right at those rear floorboards, in hopes of raising the center crest of the transmission tunnel. Took two attempts and then it ended up being about 1/16" in difference. Tightened down the mount bolts and checked for clearance -- floor pans now have about 3/8" on the passenger, and just about 1/4" on the drivers side. I even went so far as to throw sand bags and salt bags on the floor to simulate passenger weight and still didn't have any problems afterwards. Looks like that fixed it.

Hard to see, but the gap is there!
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah297/thesonicrat/57/IMG_20170701_004532_zpsdtxojsef.jpg

Next up will be fabricating a temporary "stand" for the body while I cut out the floor and clean up the pinch welds. I've also got a considerable degree of cleanup to do on the floor, as a lot of the edges have been beaten up.

How far apart are the two rails (inside)?

[SonicRaT]

I have a 57 here sitting on an AME frame. Body has new floor and trunk. No interference. Can I measure something for you? If you have your frame level fore and aft - port and starboard, your floor attached with new bushings, the pan at the front seat area (port to starboard) should be level along with the rear seat area on both sides of the tunnel (pretty close to level)

Before the adustment, both sides of the rear were at a noticable down angle toward the transmission tunnel. I haven't checked how close to level it would be now though. I'm not sure if the measurements on the AME frame would be the same -- they would need to locate the body mounts relative to the top of the frame in the same manner that the original does. However, just for kicks, about how much clearance do your rear boards have in the foot area right behind the center brace?

I'll measure the center distance here shortly.

[NickP]

The body mount platform is spot on, on an AME unit, right to the drawings. I just got in from mowing the back 40. I'll go and measure.

[NickP]

However, just for kicks, about how much clearance do your rear boards have in the foot area right behind the center brace?


11/16 At the rear support where you have issue.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2283636/20292324/413442577.jpg

[WagonCrazy]

The floor pans sit within 1/4 inch of the top of the AME frame rails on my Nomad. But they don't touch...

7485

7486

7487

7488

[SonicRaT]

Thanks WagonCrazy, I got each side to about 1/2" now and I think I'll be fine there. Now I just need to get the body off the frame. Having trouble finding a local source for tubing to fabricate some stands...

[SonicRaT]

Nearly 15 years after I first started this project -- the body is finally off!


http://i.imgur.com/IQdaM58.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GCfnjeu.jpg


I'm using a combination of 1100lb rated saw horses, 4x4s, my bumper jack, and my engine hoist to keep the body secure. The stock shock mount area is whats sitting on the rear horse -- not the outside quarters.


http://i.imgur.com/uW6fysJ.jpg


Next, it was on to cutting out the old floor. I didn't make it very far, as the blade on my sawzall was not the right kind for this sort of task and I couldn't find any of my general purpose metal blades. The pictures below show what remained of the old floor -- which wasn't much.


http://i.imgur.com/AiHT62X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uF5KbNj.jpg

[567chevys]

very good thread ,

Thanks for the information.


Sid

[chevynut]

Looking good SR. Glad you got the floor issue addressed. Once you get that new floor installed it'll start looking like a "new" car again!

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

good read, cool project. nice progress.

[SonicRaT]

Looking good SR. Glad you got the floor issue addressed. Once you get that new floor installed it'll start looking like a "new" car again!

I think it'll be a while before it starts to look "new" -- but it's at least a good feeling to actually be replacing parts now instead of just buying new ones and waiting to do something with them. I've still got every quarter to replace on the car, so it's going to be a long, painful road to "new" status.