Vetterodder's Nomad

[NickP]

Saw this the other day: http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/1955ChevyNomadCaggiani/1955ChevyNomadFeature.html

[Bluegrass Trifive]

I saw the car while it was at Hot Rod Dynamics. That's one nice ride!

[Fladiver64]

Saw the car and meet Dan at Detail Fest in West Palm, really nice car and great owner. He was won AJ's pick wand was interviewed for the show Competition Ready, although he said they cut out the part where he gave credit to Hot Rod Dynamics. I guess no free advertizing.

[MadMooks]

One of the nicest 55s out there and he drives the hell out of it. He purchased a lot of parts from us and showcased our newest stainless door strikers at the nationals .

Joe lutz and hot rod dynamics build a lot of cool rides.

[chevynut]

I'd love to see the car, and wonder how much it cost to build. Didn't it take like 3 years to build in a full-time shop with who knows how many people working on it?

Beautiful car. I'm sure RD can find something "wrong" with it. LMAO! :D

[MadMooks]

I'd love to see the car, and wonder how much it cost to build. Didn't it take like 3 years to build in a full-time shop with who knows how many people working on it? :D

Yea same here. Pictures never do them justice . I'm guessing it was pricey . He bought the first AME frame with IRS.

[chevynut]

He bought the first AME frame with IRS.

I was reading an article a couple days ago that said the AME IRS uses a Strange center section made for the new Camaros. 9.9" ring gear and based on Dana 60.:eek:

[MadMooks]

I was reading an article a couple days ago that said the AME IRS uses a Strange center section made for the new Camaros. 9.9" ring gear and based on Dana 60.:eek:

I don't kno too much about it, all I kno is its out of my price range :)

[chevynut]

I'm guessing it was pricey

I'm betting it was a $400-600K build.

2080 hours per year, 3 years, 1 guy full-time, $60 per hour = $374,400 plus parts ~$75K-100K.

I doubt one guy working on it for 3 years could finish it by himself. And the HRD shop rate is probably higher (mine is :)). The interior alone has to be $30-40K. The frame and associated parts is probably $30K.

I recall that the Kindigit 55 Nomad was a $500K+ build, and I think this is comparable.

[Fladiver64]

I have talked with Dan a couple of times, and although he never said what the car cost, he did say there was an original budget that was exceeded, sounds just like the rest of our projects. I think your estimate is too high Cnut, there was a lot of time during those three years that the car sat without work being done on it. He did tell me that he had to make choices because of the budget, like he had a used engine and trans installed, low mileage camaro takeout if i remember correctly. My guess on cost is between $150K and $175K, no hard evidence just my feeling from talking with him.

I think it is great to see a car like this being driven as much as it is.

[chevynut]

I don't think there's any way you could build that car for $150-175K. I've seen a lot lower-class builds 15 years ago that went over $150K and I think that's fairy typical for a shop-built car. Just add up the parts on Bruiser and you're well over $100K. And I think there's at least 3000 hours in it over 3 years (that's less than half-time, one person), if not a lot more.

Hell, I've done ALL my own work and have about $70K+ in just parts and materials in mine (haven't added it up lately), and I still have to get it painted, chrome the rear bumper and get the interior done. I don't know how many thousands of hours I have in it and it's not even assembled. :eek:

[55 Rescue Dog]

I'd love to see the car, and wonder how much it cost to build. Didn't it take like 3 years to build in a full-time shop with who knows how many people working on it?

Beautiful car. I'm sure RD can find something "wrong" with it. LMAO! :D
The AME IRS has a hell of a lot of structure around it for support. My spaghetti car has about $16k in parts, and about 3000+ hours labor.

[joeelutz]

Wow! $400-600k??? Maybe I need to start charging more!
Actually HRD is running a special smoking deal of the century. We'll build copies of Bruiser for the unheard of low price of $250k ea. How many do you want?

[MadMooks]

Joe is financing available ? Lol

[Nomadder]

Wow! $400-600k??? Maybe I need to start charging more!
Actually HRD is running a special smoking deal of the century. We'll build copies of Bruiser for the unheard of low price of $250k ea. How many do you want?

Hey - this is VETTERODDER (aka Dan) - just have them choose a different color ok? LOL.

[Nomadder]

Joe - Use this as the brochure to take the orders:

https://s2.postimg.org/p5ph3i8k9/IMG_1931.jpg

[Rick_L]

I was going to suggest that the real number was somewhat lower than the high one, but maybe higher than the low one. I must be in the ball park.

A few years ago I saw a local shop do a 57 convertible that was taken down to the cowl and rebuilt back to restored stock. New quarters, floors, top well, everything. $86k. Beautiful work too. I was pretty amazed at the price. Maybe not so much in parts, but a lot of labor.

[chevynut]

Wow! $400-600k??? Maybe I need to start charging more!
Actually HRD is running a special smoking deal of the century. We'll build copies of Bruiser for the unheard of low price of $250k ea. How many do you want?

Welcome to the site Joe and thanks for the input. I was just at the gym and got to thinking about the build, and it really doesn't have the custom stuff that the Kindigit Nomad has, like the trick hidden hinges, flipped bumpers, and a few other things. That stuff takes an incredibly lot of time to design and execute versus a more stock-like build with some custom touches. In retrospect, Bruiser is much closer to stock appearing, which isn't a bad thing. I've never seen it in person but Bruiser does look nice in pics and I think you did a great job.

I guess I have a hard time believing how you guys can have any less than 3000 man-hours in Bruiser and that assumes three years with it sitting for over a year and a half in the shop with nothing done to it if one guy was working on it. At my shop rate of $75 an hour that alone is $225K. I just raised my shop rate to $75 an hour because a customer of mine at a shop in NE (we built him a C4 clip for a customer of his) told me I was too low. He charges $125 an hour and he's always booked up. I know of auto shops in my area charging over $100 an hour. Maybe your area is lower, for some reason. My contractor friend charges $65 an hour for construction work that most anyone can do.

And from what I've seen, and my own experience on my car, you can't have less than $75K in parts and chrome work in it. That puts it at least at $300K which is more in line with what I was originally thinking about the cost of the car. :p

What is your shop rate? Are using slave labor? :D

[chevynut]

A few years ago I saw a local shop do a 57 convertible that was taken down to the cowl and rebuilt back to restored stock. New quarters, floors, top well, everything. $86k. Beautiful work too. I was pretty amazed at the price. Maybe not so much in parts, but a lot of labor.

When I was in Houston several years ago and met you guys at Rich's South Coast Rides he had a 57 in there that he was building....pretty "standard" build with an AME chassis (no IRS) and not that much body work. He told me that it was going to be a $150K job. And that was around 15 years ago. Nothing really special about it, just a nice build.

[joeelutz]

Thanks Chevynut. I guess we don't charge what we should. We are currently at $70/hr.

[joeelutz]

Joe - Use this as the brochure to take the orders:
https://s2.postimg.org/p5ph3i8k9/IMG_1931.jpg

Excellent idea!

[BamaNomad]

I saw the car at Bowling Green and talked briefly with Joe (Dan wasn't around when I stopped by)... It's a beautiful car, exceptionally well detailed.. and well appointed. :)

[Nomadder]

I saw the car at Bowling Green and talked briefly with Joe (Dan wasn't around when I stopped by)... It's a beautiful car, exceptionally well detailed.. and well appointed. :)

Sorry I missed you at the event........

[MadMooks]

I'm betting it was a $400-600K build.

2080 hours per year, 3 years, 1 guy full-time, $60 per hour = $374,400 plus parts ~$75K-100K.

I doubt one guy working on it for 3 years could finish it by himself. And the HRD shop rate is probably higher (mine is :)). The interior alone has to be $30-40K. The frame and associated parts is probably $30K.

I recall that the Kindigit 55 Nomad was a $500K+ build, and I think this is comparable.

Wow 500k? Sure is a lot of money just to tell ur friends mr tv man built ur car. One of kindigs workers called me said he heard I specialized in nomads and looked at my website. He then asked if I had a transmission mount. Hard to believe that 500k car has casted cable guides and all the other poor quality original stuff in the tailgate area. Wish they had used us on that stuff. Doesn't sound like our stuff was out of their budget, since there most likely wasn't a budget

[WagonWonder]

Wow 500k? Sure is a lot of money just to tell ur friends mr tv man built ur car.
Who's mr. tv man?

[MadMooks]

Dave kindig from bitchin rides

[chevynut]

I guess the labor rate is a big factor. Around here it's anywhere from $65-100 per hour....I don't know what Joe charges. The guy that bent my upper radiator hose and beaded them charges $100 per hour.

Parts cost the same just about anywhere. Here's my estimate of the cost of parts plus body/paint and interior for Bruiser. I think I double-counted the hours in paint and interior work because the $35K for interior includes labor and my estimate for paint included labor. But there has to be a lot of hours in disassembly, assembly, and fab of some custom parts I didn't count.



Morrison chassis
15,000


IRS adder

9500


Exhaust

2000


brakes

1000


plumbing

1000


Gas tank/pump
600


Frame prep/painting
1000


Driveshaft

500


Engine

6000


Engine accessories
2000


Radiator/condenser
1000


Transmission
2500


Steeing shafts/joints
250


Steering column
400












Bodywork
10000


Paint

8000


Bumpers

1500


Glass

1000


Seats

300


Stainless polishing
2000


Chrome work
2000


Madmooks parts
1000


Steering wheel
300












Interior

35000


Electrical

3000


VHX gauges
800







Wheels

3000


Tires

800








Total
111,450







So if there's 3000 additional hours over 3 years at $60 an hour, we're talking about a $291K car. If the shop rate drops to $45 an hour, it's "only" $246K. Sounds like that's about where it's at. ;)

[chevynut]

Sure is a lot of money just to tell ur friends mr tv man built ur car.

Dave Kindig is one of the most talented car designers I've ever seen, aside from Foose. He really has a knack for putting shapes and colors together to make an awesome car. Both those guys have some amazing talent. I wish I could consult with them on my Nomad but they'd probably tell me to take a hike. :)

[MadMooks]

I think trepanier has to be in that convo as well. Funny u mention his use of colors because that's prolly one of the few things I don't like about the car. Not a fan of the white being the dominant color and the upside down bumpers. Amazing detail tho.

I'll take the bruiser + 250k cash over kindigs lol

[chevynut]

This really brings up the question of how much better is something that costs a lot more money. Keep in mind that Kindig charged for time and parts on that Nomad and it came to over $500K from what I read. They did a LOT more metalwork and customization than Bruiser got. Not to say Bruiser isn't a "nice" car, but Kindig's Nomad is in a totally different league. I do like the white cuz it's different ;).

I used to do a lot of work with IBM when I was an engineer for HP. I was once on a business trip to NY to discuss our microprocessor development program and we were taken out to dinner by the IBM sales rep. We went to the Hyde Park Culinary Institute and I think there were 10 of us total. The IBM rep started ordering wine for the table, and after we got about 6-8 bottles on the table I noticed from the wine list that they were $500+ bottles. I had never had wine that expensive, and it was good ;). But would I pay $450 more for a bottle of wine? NOPE! It wasn't THAT good. The bar tab alone was $4000 and I heard a week later that the rep quit and went to work for a different company. :)

So is the Kindig Nomad worth $250K more than Bruiser? I don't know, but it depends on who's buying. :D

[MadMooks]

Chevynut it's not too late to paint yours white! Dare to be different? :)

[BamaNomad]

Most of us, or maybe all of us, would NOT pay that kind of $$ for a car, but obviously to the fellas who paid the $$bill, it was worth it (or they wouldn't have done it)... At various times in my life, I've had more time than money... and other times more money than time... so there are a lot of variable as to what someone pays for something. I'm sure the same is true for you guys as well. For me, I would not pay those kinds of $$ for a car... and if I didn't have the option for (and desire) building it myself, I wouldn't have such a specialty car... instead I'd be driving the newest, most loaded crew cab pickup I could buy... :)

but I too am really impressed by both Foose and Kendig... both are great designers... with Kendig being a little more 'far out' (look at the Buick and Cadillac builds!).. but I like Foose because he actually gets in and gets his hands dirty too!

Vetterodders car is great and I'd love to drive it! :) but the colors chosen are more dark than I'd choose... (I actually like the white/tan/lighter colors on the Kendig Nomad).

PS. Has Trepanier built a Nomad?? if so, I missed it.. but Trepanier is obviously an extremely talented modifier as well...

[MadMooks]

I think he did a white/red 57 way back in the day but it wasn't anything like he puts out today .

[MadMooks]

Yay or nay?

[NickP]

There is some real talent there. I'm no t fan of the front treatment but regardless, craftsmanship abounds. What's under the bonnet?

[BamaNomad]

Yay or nay?

Being a white/red fan, I love it... :)

[Bitchin'57]

I don't like the front at all, and I'm not a fan in general of shaved door handles. I say "nay".

[MadMooks]

I believe the builder is from South Dakota , bought some of our billet stainless parts for the rear. Did a crazy amount of custom work to this car including hidden hinges for the tailgate . Looks like he has a one piece hood bar too .

[chevynut]

I like that white Nomad but I haven't seen it in person since I missed Goodguys this year. I talked to Jose at Ogden Chrome about it and they did all the chrome work on it. There's alot of stuff on it that's hard to see. The front fender trim is custom and it's one-piece made to match the rest of the trim. Jose sent me pics of the car before it was completed around the time I sent him my A/C bracket in March. I can't remember what he told me the chrome and polishing bill was but it was in the tens of thousands. It is from SD built by G3 Rods and they've built some other awesome cars like the 69 Camaro they did a couple years ago. This Nomad is heavily modified but some of it is pretty subtle. I would have chromed the upper trim around the grille myself and I think the "flipped" bumpers have become a little overdone. Someone needs to come up with something different for the front bumper besides just flipping it ;).


http://www.kruzinusa.com/sites/default/files/2017/08//Builders%20Showroom%20Pick%20of%20the%20Week%20G3% 20Rods%20'56%20Nomad%20%2002.jpg

[markm]

I don't like the front at all, and I'm not a fan in general of shaved door handles. I say "nay".

While the workmanship is excellent, the result is ugly, no use for shaved handles either.

[chevynut]

Tried to copy some pics here, but it doesn't work. Here' a link to more....

http://www.kruzinusa.com/blog/ponygirl/builders-showroom-pick-week-g3-rods

While there are a couple of things I don't care for, like the exaggerated fender bodyline, I think it's a awesome car. It retains most of the classic Nomad styling but updates it. I'd take it!

[markm]

Confused build I thought painted bumpers went out in the 1990s, then if I read right it has a 409 style W motor, now that is old school stuff.

[chevynut]

At least it doesn't have 15" Cragars or Torque Thrust wheels on it. :D

What painted bumpers? :confused:

"An in house fabricated engine compartment is the perfect berth for the all aluminum 409 that's been punched out to a 515. According to Tyler, it's a screaming machine putting out about 650hp".

[BamaNomad]

Confused build I thought painted bumpers went out in the 1990s, then if I read right it has a 409 style W motor, now that is old school stuff.

Some people 'follow the trends', some 'set the trends', and others just don't care what others think... and they build it for themselves.. :)

[markm]

At least it doesn't have 15" Cragars or Torque Thrust wheels on it. :D

What painted bumpers? :confused:

"An in house fabricated engine compartment is the perfect berth for the all aluminum 409 that's been punched out to a 515. According to Tyler, it's a screaming machine putting out about 650hp".

Really don't think much of that additional 116 comes from boring, but when you start out at 3.5 stroke there is a ton to be gained there.

[MadMooks]

Tried to copy some pics here, but it doesn't work. Here' a link to more....

http://www.kruzinusa.com/blog/ponygirl/builders-showroom-pick-week-g3-rods

While there are a couple of things I don't care for, like the exaggerated fender bodyline, I think it's a awesome car. It retains most of the classic Nomad styling but updates it. I'd take it!

yeah they did a ton of work on that thing. the rendering is pretty sweet, but that's because the rendering shows it on air ride which I like. I can appreciate the work that went into this thing, but would have been much better looking with a stock 56 front end, smoothie bumper right side up, and two tone paint IMO

[MadMooks]

I do like this

[Nomadder]

I guess the labor rate is a big factor. Around here it's anywhere from $65-100 per hour....I don't know what Joe charges. The guy that bent my upper radiator hose and beaded them charges $100 per hour.

Parts cost the same just about anywhere. Here's my estimate of the cost of parts plus body/paint and interior for Bruiser. I think I double-counted the hours in paint and interior work because the $35K for interior includes labor and my estimate for paint included labor. But there has to be a lot of hours in disassembly, assembly, and fab of some custom parts I didn't count.



Morrison chassis
15,000


IRS adder

9500


Exhaust

2000


brakes

1000


plumbing

1000


Gas tank/pump
600


Frame prep/painting
1000


Driveshaft

500


Engine

6000


Engine accessories
2000


Radiator/condenser
1000


Transmission
2500


Steeing shafts/joints
250


Steering column
400












Bodywork
10000


Paint

8000


Bumpers

1500


Glass

1000


Seats

300


Stainless polishing
2000


Chrome work
2000


Madmooks parts
1000


Steering wheel
300












Interior

35000


Electrical

3000


VHX gauges
800







Wheels

3000


Tires

800








Total
111,450







So if there's 3000 additional hours over 3 years at $60 an hour, we're talking about a $291K car. If the shop rate drops to $45 an hour, it's "only" $246K. Sounds like that's about where it's at. ;)

You forgot to add the purchase price of the Nomad itself to the overall total !!!

Even adding in the purchase price of the Nomad - you are still about six figures off!!!

[chevynut]

You forgot to add the purchase price of the Nomad itself to the overall total !!!

Even adding in the purchase price of the Nomad - you are still about six figures off!!!

I was estimating the cost of the BUILD, and had no idea what you paid for it originally. I paid $550 for my Nomad as a driver, so the cost of that is in the "noise". :)

Are you saying my estimate of $246K-291K is "six figures off"? Most of the cost of building a car at a shop is labor. I have no idea what their labor rate is, but I included bodywork, paint, and interior in the parts cost. I'm sure I left a lot of parts out of the list so it's probably over $111K.

Why don't you tell us what it actually cost and break it down a little so we understand where the cost is?

[55 Rescue Dog]

Whatever it cost, it was too damn much. My $15k/4000hour Camaro is way more fun.

[markm]

At least it doesn't have 15" Cragars or Torque Thrust wheels on it. :D

What painted bumpers? :confused:

"An in house fabricated engine compartment is the perfect berth for the all aluminum 409 that's been punched out to a 515. According to Tyler, it's a screaming machine putting out about 650hp".

True why waste good stuff on a gangbanger ride/

[Nomadder]

I was estimating the cost of the BUILD, and had no idea what you paid for it originally. I paid $550 for my Nomad as a driver, so the cost of that is in the "noise". :)

Are you saying my estimate of $246K-291K is "six figures off"? Most of the cost of building a car at a shop is labor. I have no idea what their labor rate is, but I included bodywork, paint, and interior in the parts cost. I'm sure I left a lot of parts out of the list so it's probably over $111K.

Why don't you tell us what it actually cost and break it down a little so we understand where the cost is?

Just tipped the scale at about $200K all in......
While this seems high to many, it may seem low to others. So when you compare this build to the Kingdig build at well over 2x my build, I am very content with my Nomad. Not to take away from that build but theirs is very custom whereas we kept our modifications light.
No shortcuts were taken. However, careful planning and sourcing of parts was essential to keep the tab reasonable (if there is such a thing in a any build). While Joe sourced items, he allowed me to hunt parts down to save on my invoices. Again, to do that, we had to have a design/vision/build plan so that we knew what we needed ahead of the build - that saved a lot of time. It also speaks volume about Joe's craftsmanship and efficiency in getting the Nomad back into shape in short order.