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View Full Version : C-clip eliminator for big end 12 bolt



55 Tony
03-30-2018, 04:32 AM
I'm looking into c-clip eliminators. I know they have a bad reputation for leaking, but then most all of them tell you they are not for street use due to the side forces when cornering. I found that Strange makes one for street/strip but it's only for small GM ends and I have large ends. Anyone know of any for large ends? (truck/impala)

Rick_L
03-31-2018, 04:46 PM
Well that's the story as I know it, never heard of an updated product that improves that. Aren't 60s Impala ends the same as Chevelle/Camaro/Nova? I thought they were.

The best way to fix this stuff is to weld a Ford housing end on your axle housing, and get some custom axles that use the Ford bearings. But that's a lot more expense and effort.

markm
03-31-2018, 05:34 PM
Rick Impala 12 bolts use 1/2 ton PU style ends, Toms Differentials sells axle ends that use impala brakes and 57-64 Olds bearings same part# as so called big Furd bearings. Advised Tony of this on another thread, he is not interested. My parts store buddy tells me Olds starting using these bearings in 1940, Ford began using them in 1953.

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 04:16 AM
Oh I'm interested. It's just really hard to find someone less than 3-4 hours away to do the work. I re read the above and don't think I got it before. So I wouldn't have to change brakes and drums too? That's a little less $$. I'll go look at Toms. Also there is a machine shop close by that said he could do the work but I'm not sure of his abilities. It's been a long time since he did them. I have to do something before I loose an axle. He also "used to" set up a lot of 12 bolts also. Last night I hooked great, but they were having $100 buy in's so I just played in the tune and test time. One guy told me that it "almost" lifted a front wheel. If I get the rear done, probably due for new axles. The splines were getting "sharp" last time I had them out. It hooked like I never felt before. For the first time it felt like I could use a higher stall convertor. I'll try gears first. Although I may have to put this all off and put a new roof on the house first.

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 04:44 AM
Looks like the kit from Toms has a choice of ball or tapered bearings. What I saw elsewhere called "street and strip" used tapered bearings. Suppose to handle the load when making turns in normal street driving
Taper bearing set 20
Part #TDC12T-WOEK-20
Price $135.00 Pair

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 05:04 AM
I keep replying to myself but keep thinking of more stuff. If I'm shifting into 3rd close to the 1/8 mile, about 82mph, with a calculator it gives me a guesstimate ET of 8.663. Almost a second faster than my cell phone app I used before, about the same as the delay I found it to have. So if I'm hitting 3rd at the finish line with 3.42 gears what gears would you recommend?

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 06:33 AM
I almost forgot, Kye Kelly was there! Saw him take one run. What the heck is the spray vapor stuff shooting out of the hood before the run? I'm taking a guess at some type of chill spray because I was thinking of bringing a little can to cool my carb before a run.

chevynut
04-01-2018, 08:37 AM
If I'm shifting into 3rd close to the 1/8 mile, about 82mph, with a calculator it gives me a guesstimate ET of 8.663. Almost a second faster than my cell phone app I used before, about the same as the delay I found it to have.

Here's what you posted before with your phone app.....looks about the same to me ;)

This is my last run, I don't know what any of this means:

60' 2.492 @ 48.99mph
330 5.488 @ 73.39mph
1/8 8.524 @ 82.32mph

This is with 3.42 gears.



What the heck is the spray vapor stuff shooting out of the hood before the run?

Probably nitrous.

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 09:03 AM
Here's what you posted before with your phone app.....looks about the same to me ;)

This is my last run, I don't know what any of this means:

60' 2.492 @ 48.99mph
330 5.488 @ 73.39mph
1/8 8.524 @ 82.32mph

This is with 3.42 gears.




Probably nitrous.

Oh, was the nitrous just for show? As for the times compared to before, today I was looking at the wrong dates on my phone app.
This is sad. I'll have to blame something for going so slow. Is it really that bad for a street car with no "power adders"?

Florida 57
04-01-2018, 09:26 AM
Oh, was the nitrous just for show? As for the times compared to before, today I was looking at the wrong dates on my phone app.
This is sad. I'll have to blame something for going so slow. Is it really that bad for a street car with no "power adders"?
Part show, part purging the system I suppose.

markm
04-01-2018, 10:02 AM
With Toms Impala ends your brakes fit.
I highly recommend Toms KA axles I have them in my 55, the 35 spline ones. Affordable and high quality stuff.

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 02:19 PM
With Toms Impala ends your brakes fit.
I highly recommend Toms KA axles I have them in my 55, the 35 spline ones. Affordable and high quality stuff.

As for the 35 spline axles, can I use my same Yukon carrier, just get new spider gears? And I don't know what kind of posi it is, are they interchangeable? Last time I saw my axle splines I could definitely see the wear. They weren't "sharp" yet but worn for sure. From how I drove it and what I felt when it BANGED into 3rd, I'd guess that was hard on them? And being new to slicks I noticed something I didn't expect. When it hit 3rd it was soft. I'm guessing now instead of feeling the car jerk forward, the tires wrinkled and softened the blow?

markm
04-01-2018, 03:01 PM
My car has a Dana 60, therefore 35 spline is stock, Toms also has 30 spline that fit your 12 bolt. I don't think slicks softened the blow instead, I would expect the opposite. Are you sure the trans isn't going away.

55 Tony
04-01-2018, 05:10 PM
I'll have to put the street tires on and see how it shifts. Then I'll know for sure if it's the slicks. They wrinkle so so easy, I see them as giant very soft rubber couplers absorbing the blow.

chasracer
04-02-2018, 02:27 PM
The nitrous purge isn't for show although it looks that way. Any chance of air in the nitrous line or solenoids can mean disaster.

Once again, I understand saving some bucks and having some fun but you do come to a point where you throw money at one thing only to have to rip it out and put the good parts in anyway. My son and I did a bracket car for him about 12 years back, it's the Camaro and in the 1/8 this weekend the car was hitting 5.96-5.98. When we started on the project and it was sitting in my garage as a street car that we just purchased, he asked where do we start? I said first, we remove everything that doesn't make it fast, second we start with the rear. We put a 9 inch in it as the first upgrade and it's still there. I can tell you that we make on average 250-300 passes each year. I kknow our goals are a little different here but give it a lot of thought before putting a lot of money into a 12-bolt. About the time you think you have it okay, the carrier will spread and spit out the ring and diff like chew'n tobacco. Been there before.

55 Tony
04-03-2018, 10:18 AM
before putting a lot of money into a 12-bolt. About the time you think you have it okay, the carrier will spread and spit out the ring and diff like chew'n tobacco. Been there before.
Do you mean the *case* will spread or the carrier? Was talking to Moser and he was saying with 35 spline axles their 12 bolt should be good to up over 700hp. Not that I'm going to buy one of theirs, because for a couple hundred more I could get a Dana 60 clone from them.

markm
04-03-2018, 10:58 AM
A Dana 60 is the way to go in my opinion. Factory Ford stuff is pretty weak, unless you brace housing and buy a aftermarket locker and N case.

55 Tony
04-03-2018, 12:56 PM
I don't think slicks softened the blow instead, I would expect the opposite. Are you sure the trans isn't going away.

The tranny seems good. I was just out for a ride with street tires and it again jerks into 3rd. Maybe I'm really low on air? Looking at things from a physics point of view, the wider the slicks, the less air you need. And the opposite for narrow. Just think of when 10 speed bikes got popular, we went from fat tire with maybe 30psi to skinny tires at 100psi. My slicks are only 9".

chasracer
04-03-2018, 03:18 PM
Do you mean the *case* will spread or the carrier? Was talking to Moser and he was saying with 35 spline axles their 12 bolt should be good to up over 700hp. Not that I'm going to buy one of theirs, because for a couple hundred more I could get a Dana 60 clone from them.

Sorry - yep meant the case. Had one from a 67 Impala that I put gears in, new posi bits and spider gears. That was springtime, before summer was finished I was putting the old 10 bolt back in the car to get to work. Case spread just driving to work one morning, shucked the guts out all over the place. Not pretty.

I have a friend that races a S-10 (the new Camaros of this generation) in brackets. He bought this one over winter, put his drivetrain in it and had the 12 bolt in the back that it came it with completely gone through, put a Moser rear cover that is supposed to help "harden" the rear and help keep the right side bearing cap from walking around or backing up. We just finished the second race of the season this past weekend - he's shopping for a new rear.

55 Tony
04-03-2018, 05:43 PM
Sorry - yep meant the case. Had one from a 67 Impala that I put gears in, new posi bits and spider gears. That was springtime, before summer was finished I was putting the old 10 bolt back in the car to get to work. Case spread just driving to work one morning, shucked the guts out all over the place. Not pretty.

I have a friend that races a S-10 (the new Camaros of this generation) in brackets. He bought this one over winter, put his drivetrain in it and had the 12 bolt in the back that it came it with completely gone through, put a Moser rear cover that is supposed to help "harden" the rear and help keep the right side bearing cap from walking around or backing up. We just finished the second race of the season this past weekend - he's shopping for a new rear.

Hmm, a lot to consider. I wonder what I could get for my 12 bolt as is? Sure would be nice to recoup some of the money I have in it. Maybe someone here that doesn't hammer on their car would be interested. I'll have to post a classified ad here and craigs list. I'm hoping if someone interested in it can go with me on a test ride so they know it's good, for now anyway, maybe get a bit more than if it's already pulled out and they just have to take my word.

chasracer
04-03-2018, 07:45 PM
A Dana 60 is the way to go in my opinion. Factory Ford stuff is pretty weak, unless you brace housing and buy a aftermarket locker and N case.

Those are nice pieces but most don't know how to brace the rear correctly and the N case, while certainly the stoutest of the stock stuff are tough to find. There's a SA Workbench book on the Ford 9's that gives a lot more information about the stockers along with setting them up. Dana 60's are great, just too damned heavy. We have one in the Corvette and so far, so good other than the frickin leaks we keep chasing.

Rick_L
04-03-2018, 07:59 PM
Biggest thing on the 9" is the factory trac lock is weak. Use something better from the aftermarket and it will work fine. I don't think you need a brace or an N case with typical street engine hp, unless you have a track only setup with slicks. And if it's track only you can use a spool and have no problem there.

Remember that the Nascar Cup cars use a 9" with a locker, and they have 850 hp - and the rear axle has to last 500 miles of applying that power twice a lap.

chevynut
04-03-2018, 08:12 PM
We put a Dana 60 in a '55 gasser frame we built, and it's a huge piece of iron.....and heavy. Seems like it's overkill for most applications. Unless you had one laying around (like this guy did) I can't see buying one over a 9" Ford. I understand the Ford rearend offers a ton of gear ratios, lots of aftermarket parts, and it's easy to rebuild the pumpkin (unlike a 12-bolt). Looks like the Dana 60 is the same design at the 12-bolt GM rear with a rear cover. I'd go with a 9" if I wanted a versatile, strong solid axle rear. But I don't know a lot about what's available.

8616

55 Tony
04-04-2018, 05:15 AM
With Toms Impala ends your brakes fit.
I highly recommend Toms KA axles I have them in my 55, the 35 spline ones. Affordable and high quality stuff.

By the way, I don't know if this is new or old news, but Toms is up for sale.

markm
04-05-2018, 07:04 AM
I am not surprised I first heard about him in car mags in the 70s.

55 Tony
04-05-2018, 07:13 AM
I am not surprised I first heard about him in car mags in the 70s.

Actually I just found out that Tom passed away in January, but the business was up for sale before that.

chasracer
04-10-2018, 03:51 PM
Biggest thing on the 9" is the factory trac lock is weak. Use something better from the aftermarket and it will work fine. I don't think you need a brace or an N case with typical street engine hp, unless you have a track only setup with slicks. And if it's track only you can use a spool and have no problem there.

Remember that the Nascar Cup cars use a 9" with a locker, and they have 850 hp - and the rear axle has to last 500 miles of applying that power twice a lap.

That's correct but it's a floater type rear and the locker is a billet unit - not exactly the stuff you're going to drop in a street/strip car for fun - unless someone happens to had you one!

chasracer
04-10-2018, 03:55 PM
We put a Dana 60 in a '55 gasser frame we built, and it's a huge piece of iron.....and heavy. Seems like it's overkill for most applications. Unless you had one laying around (like this guy did) I can't see buying one over a 9" Ford. I understand the Ford rearend offers a ton of gear ratios, lots of aftermarket parts, and it's easy to rebuild the pumpkin (unlike a 12-bolt). Looks like the Dana 60 is the same design at the 12-bolt GM rear with a rear cover. I'd go with a 9" if I wanted a versatile, strong solid axle rear. But I don't know a lot about what's available.



8616
I had one guy tell me that you can now build a Dana 60 for about the same cost as a 9" - I haven't tried to verify that but I do know that if you get one built right, it's damn near bullet proof. But the weight is the killer deal to me. We are always trying to stay as light as possible and if this Corvette hadn't come with a Dana, it wouldn't be our choice.

BTW, is that a MR2 Spyder sitting there in the picture? We have one just like it sitting in our garage, same color even.

markm
04-10-2018, 04:32 PM
I had one guy tell me that you can now build a Dana 60 for about the same cost as a 9" - I haven't tried to verify that but I do know that if you get one built right, it's damn near bullet proof. But the weight is the killer deal to me. We are always trying to stay as light as possible and if this Corvette hadn't come with a Dana, it wouldn't be our choice.

BTW, is that a MR2 Spyder sitting there in the picture? We have one just like it sitting in our garage, same color even.

I have never spent more than 500 dollars building a Dana 60, that's including custom axles and a 35 spline power lock. Om the other hand I spent a grand building a 9.3 Olds. Most of that was a rebuilt locker from Fabcraft.

55 Tony
04-10-2018, 04:44 PM
I have never spent more than 500 dollars building a Dana 60, that's including custom axles and a 35 spline power lock.

Could you kindly route me in the proper direction for that? I'm assuming that doesn't include the housing, how about brakes? (drums are fine with me)

chevynut
04-10-2018, 05:02 PM
BTW, is that a MR2 Spyder sitting there in the picture? We have one just like it sitting in our garage, same color even.

No, it's a Porsche Boxster S. Mine is just like this one with yellow rollbars.

https://dxsdcl7y7vn9x.cloudfront.net/3/476871/16454569/997414552.jpghttp://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2000-2003/2001-Porsche-Boxster-S-Yellow-1024x768.jpg

I've owned it since 2002 and have been thinking it might be time to upgrade to one of these, a ZL1 Camaro, or a Z06/ZR1:

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/vehicle-marketplace/1004960d1451395884-2015-porsche-boxster-gts-image.jpeg

chasracer
04-10-2018, 06:27 PM
Very nice!

markm
04-12-2018, 06:47 AM
Could you kindly route me in the proper direction for that? I'm assuming that doesn't include the housing, how about brakes? (drums are fine with me)

Actually it includes everything, my first Dana build started with a 4.10 PowerLock that I rescued from one of my old girlfriends fathers 1964 F250 pickup bed trailer. A buddy of mine gave me a wide 8 3/4 Mopar axle housing for doner brakes and axle ends. The $500 were for new Moser axles, new 35 spline side gears and wheel bearings.

55 Tony
05-02-2018, 05:12 PM
While I'm at it, does anyone center the pinion leaving 2 different length axles? I think it's 1/2" off isn't it? The ends I bought have plenty of wiggle room so that's no problem. Is it worthwhile?

chevynut
05-03-2018, 09:00 AM
I always thought that a solid rearend would have different length axles, and the pinion was centered. I don't see why it would have to be off-center. On an IRS the pinion is off-center because the halfshafts must be the same length.

55 Tony
05-04-2018, 05:43 AM
I always thought that a solid rearend would have different length axles, and the pinion was centered. I don't see why it would have to be off-center. On an IRS the pinion is off-center because the halfshafts must be the same length.

IDK? I recall reading it somewhere and happened to measure mine. Yep, the center of the spider gears is center, which puts the pinion off center and the axles the same length. I don't build them, just measure (and attempt to rebuild).

55 Tony
05-12-2018, 07:12 AM
I'm getting excited to see how the 4.10 gears run. On Wednesday I finally met up with the guy who is cutting and welding the big chevy ends on and adding 1/2" to each side to center my tires (without spacers.) It's going to be difficult to go a couple hundred miles breaking in the gears without getting on it good. I forgot to order a speedometer gear for the th400. Anyone suggest a favorite vendor?

markm
05-12-2018, 04:41 PM
Sorry Tony but on HP cars I have never run a speedometer, for example my 67 Camaro has not had one since the 70s, just near felt them necessary.

55 Tony
05-13-2018, 04:04 AM
That's OK, I was going to get it from TCI but they didn't have the right gear or housing. Found a 44 tooth gear and housing on Amazon from a vendor that is new to me. "American Hot Rod Solutions". Much cheaper housing than others. Hope it works.