At the track video

[55 Tony]

A guy I know was there last night, (his wife talked him into coming) and he kept asking if anyone could race so I talked him into it. He just told me now when I called him for the video that he didn't even floor it, he was afraid he would hurt the car. LOL He actually sneaked in without paying to race then I think he was told to pay or leave so he was gone.

This place is really half assed, to tell the truth, I don't even know where the finish line was so I always was sure I was well passed it before letting off. Hope with the timer that will change.
Anyway, how does my launch look? I don't remember that one, but sometimes I was hooking up and sometimes I was spinning for 15-20'.
Hmm, it's a lot harder to see on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xCYcEHOgM&feature=youtu.be

[chasracer]

It looks like it hits then I guess slips a bit and bites again. Car looks like it's moving out pretty good though. My guess is that this more a street type surface with little to no prep going on?

[55 Tony]

I don't know about the surface, it's an old track that was closed for a few years. The one time when my car wasn't running for crap, they pointed out the spot were he said they put some *glue* down. Don't know which it was or a combo but I didn't spin a bit. I imagine that since they will have times in a week or two they may prep a little better. I was told the equipment they bought is pretty old and it just lights to show who won, but when you get your ticket it has the time/s.

Does it make a difference in traction if when done with the burnout you just let off the brakes and take off then maybe back up if you need to, or just stopping the burnout and rolling up to be staged?

Also there were a few with street tires and I suppose they screw things up. Amazing though how some of these front wheel drive cars with slicks grab as good as they do, I never would have thought it.

Oh, the one race I lost, I was a good deal ahead then he, with a big new looking jeep was passing me. I heard a loud whine and asked him if it's turbo and he said "super turbo". Did he mean "super charged"? Did they make any that way (either)? Talk about a sleeper!

[carls 56 (RIP 11/24/2021)]

were you the guy in the white car? just kidding Tony. ----------> looks like you did better then i could do, had to be fun too.

[Rick_L]

Actually your car looks pretty good on the launch. There is a short lull in acceleration after the car initially moves, but the video is taken from so far away that I can't tell whether it's a bog or spinning the tires. You probably know better than we do.

As far as a burnout routine or whether street tire cars are screwing up the starting line, there are many variables. The street tire guys are probably not screwing up the track unless they are visibly dragging up debris or water. Burnouts are over rated. Basically you need the tires to be clean.

[55 Tony]

were you the guy in the white car? just kidding Tony. ----------> looks like you did better then i could do, had to be fun too.

Yes I'm in the white car. I put a new body on the original frame.

[55 Tony]

Rick, I was trying to see if the caltracs are working, lifting the rear. I don't see it go up, but I don't see it go down either. Did you try the full screen mode, it makes it a bit easier to see. There were times I was spinning but honestly it's still a bit of a thrill for me that I don't remember what happened when.

[55 Tony]

Also, I'm shifting at 5500rpm. (actually the automatic is shifting at 5500) The cam says it's range is 2500-6200, but it is already advanced 2°, which according to Comp, that would make the power band 2000 to 5700rpm. I'm pretty darn sure I'm higher than 2000rpm on the launch, but I will try to watch that.

[Rick_L]

Higher the better at the starting line and the drop after the shift. You're way below peak torque at 2000 rpm no matter what they say.

[55 Tony]

So what stall rpm should I be looking for?

And about what rpm's will I be able to rev it to with the brakes on when staged?

And the one you hate to hear ... how much will this affect cruising in town and highway?

[Rick_L]

What's your cam duration @.050" lift, and what stall do you have now?

[55 Tony]

The current one is supposedly around 2300-2500.
Duration at .050 is 230 and 230.
Now I'm already wishing I had bought a bigger cam, but I might need to have the pistons fly cut. I don't think I have much room there.

[55 Tony]

This is the converter that is in it. Bought in 1994 ($179) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-240900

[Rick_L]

A 3000 rpm stall speed converter should pick you up a bunch. Downside is it will slip at highway speed, kill a little gas mileage, and you'll need a big cooler if you don't already have one.

[markm]

Actually your car looks pretty good on the launch. There is a short lull in acceleration after the car initially moves, but the video is taken from so far away that I can't tell whether it's a bog or spinning the tires. You probably know better than we do.

As far as a burnout routine or whether street tire cars are screwing up the starting line, there are many variables. The street tire guys are probably not screwing up the track unless they are visibly dragging up debris or water. Burnouts are over rated. Basically you need the tires to be clean.

Thank you Rick, I have always said they are for show and people who have no respect for parts or equipment. You can prove this on a track with 60 foot timers.

[55 Tony]

Thank you Rick, I have always said they are for show and people who have no respect for parts or equipment. You can prove this on a track with 60 foot timers.

Really? I suppose I'll have to try it without one. What about at a track like I was at without good prep?

[markm]

Burning slicks to the cords will not help on an un prepped track.

[Rick_L]

Again, the tires need to be clean. So don't track water or dirt up to the starting line. Best way to do that if you do a burnout is to let the car roll out of the water on its own (don't stop the burnout and then drive out with the tires wet). If you see that someone else did that, do what you can to avoid their mess. Sometimes it's best to go around the water, although sometimes it's unavoidable.

[55 Tony]

Not saying anyone is wrong, it's just that everyone I have ever seen drag race with slicks spins them till they are smoking. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough at the quiet car?

On a separate note, I was told that if I can go from idle to WOT without a problem, it will sort of act like a higher stall converter compared to revving it a bit with the brakes on. Does that make any sense? Would that also help the car hook?

[markm]

Not saying anyone is wrong, it's just that everyone I have ever seen drag race with slicks spins them till they are smoking. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough at the quiet car?

On a separate note, I was told that if I can go from idle to WOT without a problem, it will sort of act like a higher stall converter compared to revving it a bit with the brakes on. Does that make any sense? Would that also help the car hook?

You have obviously never seen me at the track. A lot of monkey see monkey do at the track and John Force wannabes.

[Rick_L]

I was told that if I can go from idle to WOT without a problem, it will sort of act like a higher stall converter compared to revving it a bit with the brakes on. Does that make any sense? Would that also help the car hook?

Well it won't make it stall higher, but it may work better for you. Or it may not. No reason not to try it. It's called "driving through the converter". Doing it that way is often less consistent than revving against the brakes. Starting line technique is always a variable you can experiment with. This would be a valid experiment if you get a higher stall converter too. Variations on that would be to vary what rpm you leave against the brake. Another similar set of variables is introduced by using a transbrake.

There is no pat answer to this, you can only find out by experimenting.

[JT56]

Im no expert, but I will put in my .02. There is a difference between a drag radials and slicks. First and foremost track prep has a lot to do with the selection of tire. Drag radials dont need a heavy burnout, where slicks do. Air pressure on a drag radial is different too. The car squats but it doesn't stay on the back tire. Need to slow the rebound down.

[markm]

Im no expert, but I will put in my .02. There is a difference between a drag radials and slicks. First and foremost track prep has a lot to do with the selection of tire. Drag radials dont need a heavy burnout, where slicks do. Air pressure on a drag radial is different too. The car squats but it doesn't stay on the back tire. Need to slow the rebound down.

Maybe you should try talking to some. I have, it was confirmed to me by Mickey Thompson factory reps at the Nationals at HPT Topeka their ET drag slicks are a low heat traction compound. They said all the big smokey burn guys were doing was improving sales.

[markm]

From Mickey Thompsons Homepage:


ET Drag®

A PROVEN DRAG STRIP WINNER


A Proven Drag Strip Winner
Real world research and development give M/T® slicks the edge over competitive brands. Engineered for maximum traction and consistent ET’s with superior construction and compounding for nearly every drag race application.
Multiple compounds and sizes
Compounded for maximum traction
Requires little or no burnout
Engineered for consistent performance

[55 Tony]

Wow! I'm going to try just a little burnout with my Hoosiers and see what happens. Hopefully tomorrow.

[markm]

Wow! I'm going to try just a little burnout with my Hoosiers and see what happens. Hopefully tomorrow.

That is actually what Hoosier recommends on their site. A little more than M/T.

[55 Tony]

That is actually what Hoosier recommends on their site. A little more than M/T.

2. What is the proper burn out procedure for Hoosier drag tires?
ANSWER: With Hoosier's "high traction" compounds, we have found the following burn out procedure to work for most cars. We recommend rolling through the water box to wet the tires. Start the burn out. Once the tires start to "haze", start to slow the burn out down and proceed to the start line. The goal of the burn out is to clean all debris off the tires and heat just the surface of the tread. Again this procedure will work for most cars, but fine tuning the procedure for your car may be needed.

12. What is normal wear for a drag tire?
ANSWER: There is no set degree of "normal" wear. If you feel you are getting to much wear, look to shorten the burnout time in the water box. Too much burnout will shorten the tread life of the tires. The softer the compound the more wear you would see given the same amount of burnout time. Most wear to the tread life of a drag tire comes from too much time in the burnout procedure.

[chasracer]

There's a lot of different ways to do burnouts -not all of them are good and not all are bad either. My preference is that the first one of the day is a bit longer than normal and I keep the rest of them rather short. I have never seen any difference in my short times melting the tires versus just getting them clean and warmed up.

[55 Tony]

The one way I was told is to have someone in the back to tell you when the they are flinging little gumballs. At the track I told whoever was there to tell me how long to do a burnout and last time I had a bit too much air pressure. Just 4 or 5 times and I can see where the center is worn more already. Wish this topic had come up sooner. Better late than never anyway, I'm not near the cords yet, I hope.

[markm]

I always thought the water was for pussys with no horse power or no gear or a decent convertor, but I am an asshole. I probably do more the first pass than 2nd or 3rd myself.

[Rick_L]

Oh jeez just cut the BS. There's nothing wrong with a short burnout to clean the tires. I don't care what brand the tires are or whether they are bias ply tires or drag radials or even street tires. Then find out what tire pressure works for you. With YOUR tires, YOUR suspension, on the track YOU run on. If the tires are not contacting all the way across, an adjustment is needed. Pay attention to what's going on and make adjustments as needed. There's no reason that you need a specific air pressure no matter what. You have to adjust to the results.

[bigblock]

Rick I agree with you, racing is a combination of trial and error and seat of your pants. There is nothing written in stone.

[bigblock]

Rick I agree with you, racing is a combination of trial and error and seat of your pants. There is nothing written in stone. and I never heard of watching for little balls of rubber, unless you turn left racing.

[55 Tony]

I really appreciate all the above, I was starting to wonder if my tires would last this season. Now I'm sure they will.

[JT56]

Maybe you should try talking to some. I have, it was confirmed to me by Mickey Thompson factory reps at the Nationals at HPT Topeka their ET drag slicks are a low heat traction compound. They said all the big smokey burn guys were doing was improving sales.

Im confused by your tactics? i said drag radials DONT need a heavy burnout. So what are you meaning I should try talking to some. The M/T homepage said little or no burnout. Isnt that what I was implying?

[JT56]

I always thought the water was for pussys with no horse power or no gear or a decent convertor, but I am an asshole. I probably do more the first pass than 2nd or 3rd myself.

In the No Prep world...water is used so its not a fly paper track. Your reference to "pussys"...you should check out the power plants on some of these guys and gals.

[NickP]

I guess all of the pro ranks in NHRA are "pussys". I don't know for proof positive but suspect that an NHRA track and National events is a prepped track and uses only water to even the playing field and eliminating variables introduced by the use of other chemicals by race teams.

[solidsguy]

Way back they used to spray 'glue' (traction compound) at the starting line. After that the water thing started for a tire clean. As stated above it probably was implemented to even the board and keep the cheaters halfway honest.

[Rick_L]

Years ago when we'd go to a slippery track, we'd do a water burnout and then pull up a few feet and put VHT down in front of each tire. No burnout, just spin the tire one revolution through it. It helped when things were really slick in the middle of the summer. Then came the days when the tracks would do it as regular prep for a race. That escalated to what NHRA has done the past few years. Spraying, dragging tires over it, etc. The last few races NHRA has backed off slightly on the track prep, and it shows. Not so many super fast times, more tire smoking runs until the teams got the hang of it, and even a few more cars are competitive.

[55 Tony]

I was at the track Saturday, still no clock. I tried doing a very short burnout, about 4 seconds the first time then 2 or 3 seconds on later runs. It didn't hook like before, but it didn't slip much either. The wheels spun a little on the tires, maybe 1" and 1/2", so I'll break them down, and please don't argue, but I'm going to try the tacky gasket spray that is like contact cement. If and only if they still spin will I put screws in. Some time ago I was complaining about the rear getting a bit squirrely near the finish, I didn't think of it till later but I didn't have that problem at all. Maybe that loose front control arm from the other thread was the problem all along. Jesus, no wonder it was squirely, lucky I didn't kill myself. Maybe next time I can let out another lb of air and see if it hooks better. I tried to watch the tac when starting and it looked like it was approaching 3K. What does that say about the convertor? This time I was going from idle to WOT.

During tune and test my first run I lost in the end, and I realized too late that I left it in 2nd from doing the burnout. Don't know if I should admit that in public but what the hell I'm human. The "soft (something)" rev limiter in the MSD was soft indeed and I didn't even feel it. After that I did about 6 more runs and was beating everyone and some I was told were fairly fast. The the one employee found me and asked if I wanted to get in on a street car race. I told him that I have slicks. He said he saw me drive it in with slicks so it's a street car. LOL OK I got in. Picked a really shitty number and went up against one of the fastest cars there. He had a full roll cage and a lot of sheet metal missing. He came from far and I asked him if he drove it, he said he towed it till about 5 miles from the track then drove it the rest of the way. Hmm, I got the shitty end of the stick it seems. He blew me away. Then his second pass his distributor broke, damn, why didn't it happen the first time? Oh well it was only $30.

Back at home I changed a weight on the governor to make it shift later than 5500rpm, (still I'm only aiming for 6K) went to test it and it ran like shit pulling it out of the garage. It had a little miss before but this was major. Definitely NOT the same as before when it got hot. Ordered a magnetic pick up for the MSD dizzy from Summit at one third the price of what MSD quoted me. I hope that's it and not the multi spark box. This MSD stuff sure seems to have it's problems. I may have to put my "Autotronic Controls" dizzy back in if this keeps up.

[chasracer]

That's a bit weird but anything can happen. We have run MSD stuff, heck maybe 25 years or more and other that a bad ignition toggle switch killing a coil never had any problems that weren't self-inflicted.

You asked about the converter. Not sure if you checked your current stall speed but find a flat, level road area and let the car coast along at 15-20 mph with it in high gear, then whack the throttle hard and watch the tach - what it jumps to is what your stall speed is with your current combination.

[55 Tony]

You asked about the converter. Not sure if you checked your current stall speed but find a flat, level road area and let the car coast along at 15-20 mph with it in high gear, then whack the throttle hard and watch the tach - what it jumps to is what your stall speed is with your current combination.

My shift kit isn't full manual/ it won't hold 2nd or 3rd, it will downshift, but it won't upshift if left in 1st or 2nd. When I ordered it Summit listed it as a full manual but that wasn't the case. Anyway now I'm spoiled with the modified governor shifting automatically. It was right at 5500rpm but I changed it and haven't got to test it yet. Hmm, I just thought of something, if I disconnect the kick down switch it may hold 2nd or 3rd?

The new MSD pickup isn't hard to install but time consuming. Had to take it all apart again, install the new one with RTV sealant and just snugged the two bolts so I could still move it. Put it together most of the way and adjust the gap between the pickup and the reluctor, let it sit overnight to cure. Today I have to take it apart again and tighten the bolts then put it together again. Hopefully the RTV will hold the gap setting, I suppose that is what it is for. I see the new pick up has what I call "test lead" wire. Much more supple and I believe finer strands to take more flexing, which it does with the vacuum advance in and out.

[55 Tony]

The road test went well, I'm not sure if it's running better than ever, or just better than in recent history. Yesterday before removing the distributor, I started it up again and put it in gear with some throttle and it was still missing. Today it's great, and with the brakes on and some throttle, the a/f gauge is more steady then it used to be. I just hope that's it for a while. I couldn't really check the stall, my tach is slow to react to rpm changes that fast. My latest change to the governor is too big a jump, I think I was up to 6500rpm and it didn't shift. I know most of you wouldn't worry about that, but I want this motor to last. When shifting manually I don't think it's doing much more at 6500 than at 6000. IDK, maybe it was, I just don't want to blow the motor.

[Rick_L]

It's not just a matter of "blowing the engine", you are giving away performance if you are shifting too late. You can also protect the engine with the rev limiter if you have an MSD-6AL box.

[55 Tony]

Yes Rick, I know the basics. Well a lot of them anyway.
Since I was shooting for 6Krpm automatic shift point, I had the limiter set to 6200 to be sure it shifts. But it went to 6200 and didn't shift so I need to put a little more weight back on the governor and/or mess with the springs.

[chevynut]

All this jacking around with weights and springs and floats and jets is pretty amusing, but a waste of time, when all you need is a modern electronic shift transmission and EFI. Just program your shift points, spark timing curve, fuel settings and rev limiter and it's done. And changes are easily made with a laptop or programmer without all the limitations and tradeoffs. I don't understand why anyone screws around with that old junk unless they just like to tinker.

[solidsguy]

All this jacking around with weights and springs and floats and jets is pretty amusing, but a waste of time, when all you need is a modern electronic shift transmission and EFI. Just program your shift points, spark timing curve, fuel settings and rev limiter and it's done. And changes are easily made with a laptop or programmer without all the limitations and tradeoffs. I don't understand why anyone screws around with that old junk unless they just like to tinker.

When a guy gets old and lazy enough to want to just give up on having any skills why even screw around with an old car at all then? New cars already come with that junk so why not just buy a new one, bring a laptop and a cell phone and forget the toolbox?

[55 Rescue Dog]

I freaking love my old school 1950 1.5 ton 7200lb Chevy fire truck with a 216 cubic inch 85hp inline six that redlines at 3300rpm with a good ole carb and points ignition. It runs, and drives like a dream for what it is. Simple, reliable, and easy to tune with just a screwdriver, a wrench, and 1/2 of a brain. No laptop required. After 68 years, it still runs perfect, with no software updates. I did add an electronic tachometer though. I think this thing even has 3 of the original tires at 2400 miles, that are 6.50-20's made by U.S. Royal, and they still hold air and work fine at 45mph. Old cars are like driving a time machine, which can be more fun than all of the latest gizmo's. Back to the OP, we never had problems running BBC's flat out to 7000rpm like I had 45 years ago just using points, and a regular coil. On my Camaro with an original 1970 350 LT-1, I'm running the simple "ready to run" MSD distributor with a built in adjustable rev limiter, a regular coil, and it runs perfect.

[55 Tony]

I love to tinker on old things. Like a jukebox from the late 40's with a worn out pot metal cam. It takes a cross between tinkering and inventing to make some old stuff work again. Then there are those who can't fix the old stuff like that jukebox, so they hook an mp3 player or cell phone to it. Well I guess if you can't fix it you have to do what you have to do.

[Rick_L]

Chevynut, you know better than to post this kind of BS. Please quit. It would be different if someone asked, but they didn't.

It just goes on and on, doesn't it?

[markm]

Where did my reply go, it was not nearly as offensive as cnuts. The car Cnut describes would be a duck at a bracket race.

[chasracer]

You probably already know this but you can do a brake stall speed test. I don't think its as accurate as the method I described but it'll get you within a few hundred. You pump up the brake pedal, hold it as tight as you can and get on the throttle - this is with the trans sitting in high or Drive. Only do this for a few seconds - it's pretty rough heat-wise on the converter.

Glad you got the ignition squared away. 6500 on a stockish BBC is probably a good, safe limit. And yes most of us have chased them well into the 7000+ range but we probably paid for it somewhere along the line.

[55 Tony]

I have done that before but I can't recall what it went to at the moment? I've read that you can and you can't with that method. The biggest problem is that it will be in first gear, plus I think with all my long burnouts before I knew any better, I have to adjust the rear brakes. To help, I first put the parking brake on tight then pump the pedal.

I took it out today to check the shift points and it's pretty good from what I can tell, I think I need a tach that responds faster. If you have ever used the MSD rev limiter, they also have a function so that when you turn on the ignition without starting the engine, the tach goes up to what rpm limit you have it set to. My tach is so slow that it almost gets there then it falls back down again before reading the limiter setting. The tach I had before would swing real fast, I forget what happened to it. This one is an Equis or something close to that. Being that I'm leaving the automatic to shift, I don't think I need a large one. I hope to look tomorrow, and if I get one that's slow I'll send it back.

My timing lights were reading all wacky the other week. It's done that before with 3 different timing lights and suddenly stopped. Then at various times acted up again. I had no clue what was going on. A local garage with a Snap On light tried to tell me my balancer was on wrong and at the time I didn't think of the key and keyway. Pretty hard to put it on wrong unless you forget the key. Anyway today it dawned on me that maybe with the new pickup, it would work, and it did. No idea if it was a coincidence or what? My timing was at 22 static and I backed it off to 18. Then with the mechanical it went up to 44, so I think I need to lower that also? It's running darn good, chirps 3rd most everytime.

[markm]

fyi Tony my 454 with 10-1 slugs, .595/.621 solid cam , 781 castings with 2.19/1.88s with a 4K stall in th400 ran its best in my Camaro shifting at 5500, current combo much wilder 6-6.2.First combo was good for 7.0 in 1/8 or 11.06 in 1/4. yes it cost a lot to beat this basic combo.

[55 Tony]

Hmm, should I know what 10-1 slugs are? With a stall that high and shifting at 5500, does that ... not sure how to put it, narrow the power band. What gears? A friend told me that at the finish I should be in 3rd and close to my shift rpm's. It sounds like it makes sense, is it true?
What I can not fathom is why some use power glides to race. Would you need a really wide power band?

I have to run out, then I'm stopping by the track if anyone is there this early and asking what they need done for the timer. I have a small Kubota with a sub soiler that a lot of people use to pull wires underground.

[markm]

10-1 pistons and a 4.10 Dana 60 Powerlock, usually hit third just before the finish line in 1/8. A powerglide weighs about half what a 400 does and takes half the hp to rotate. a Ford C6 is a super heavy pig and takes 3 times the hp to turn.

[chasracer]

Most of us race glides simply because they're simple for the most part and it doesn't take a whole lot of money to make them bullet-proof below the 1000 HP mark. When we first raced the Camaro, we used a TH350, several of them in fact and while the extra gear ratio helped move the car, it also pushed us in the air a lot. That looks great in the photo but isn't the best way to be consistent. We switched to a glide and the car of course calmed down and we immediately started going more rounds. My newest '55 already has a nice glide going together for it although I still have two TH350 units that are race-ready.

[Rick_L]

The nice thing about a Powerglide is that it's relatively light both in dead weight and in rotating weight. For racing, for the most part a proper converter choice makes up for the lack of gearing.

The NHRA Comp guys use a highly modified Chrysler 3 speed auto with closer gear ratios and light components to get the best of gearing and light weight. Expensive but effective.

[55 Tony]

Last night I was at the track and I just couldn't hook like in that video. I don't think I've made any changes.

For some reason it wasn't shifting properly into 2nd so the governor is now set at close to how it was. I think my tach is a couple hundred off and I'm shifting at 5700 now. Felt really good today with street tires on the highway. If it doesn't rain, I'll be there tonight again.

[55 Tony]

10-1 pistons and a 4.10 Dana 60 Powerlock, usually hit third just before the finish line in 1/8. A powerglide weighs about half what a 400 does and takes half the hp to rotate. a Ford C6 is a super heavy pig and takes 3 times the hp to turn.

I was going to guess flat top pistons that gave you 10:1. My first set were flat with a large chamfer around the outside edge. Don't know what the compression ratio was but a compression test averaged 140psi. 1978 smog motor and a slug in it's own right. Back then I thought it had some power, but I'd never had a fast car and certainly nothing like the torque it had.

Last night I challenged a trans am that beat me by a half a car a few weeks ago, he said he wasn't tuned in yet and I said neither was I. I was running darn good but he was running much much better. Then I found out he doesn't exactly advertise the bottle. I guess that's what he meant about not being tuned in yet.

Also that looseness/oversteer in the rear from the slicks is still there but I just got used to it I guess. Only noticed it once.

[55 Tony]

OK. With all those replies, I now understand why power glides are popular for racing. How much heavier are the old cast iron ones? (I know you don't use those)

[markm]

I was going to guess flat top pistons that gave you 10:1. My first set were flat with a large chamfer around the outside edge. Don't know what the compression ratio was but a compression test averaged 140psi. 1978 smog motor and a slug in it's own right. Back then I thought it had some power, but I'd never had a fast car and certainly nothing like the torque it had.

Last night I challenged a trans am that beat me by a half a car a few weeks ago, he said he wasn't tuned in yet and I said neither was I. I was running darn good but he was running much much better. Then I found out he doesn't exactly advertise the bottle. I guess that's what he meant about not being tuned in yet.

Also that looseness/oversteer in the rear from the slicks is still there but I just got used to it I guess. Only noticed it once.

The only way I know to get 10-1 with a 454 is a dome, Flat top closed chamber is still about 8.8 -1. Forget 327/350 when talking BBC.

[markm]

OK. With all those replies, I now understand why power glides are popular for racing. How much heavier are the old cast iron ones? (I know you don't use those)

When we moved my trans core from one building to another twenty years ago I could pick up a 400 , but not a cast iron glide with adaptor and convertor.

[567chevys]

I think but not sure ,
Powerglide ALUM around 97 LBS
Powerglide Cast Steel around 245 LBS
700R 135 LBS
TH350 122 LBS

Thanks Sid

[Rick_L]

The only way I know to get 10-1 with a 454 is a dome, Flat top closed chamber is still about 8.8 -1.

Even a 502 needs a small dome to get to 10:1, and that's with some fairly small chambers (110 cc).

[55 Rescue Dog]

I was going to guess flat top pistons that gave you 10:1. My first set were flat with a large chamfer around the outside edge. Don't know what the compression ratio was but a compression test averaged 140psi. 1978 smog motor and a slug in it's own right. Back then I thought it had some power, but I'd never had a fast car and certainly nothing like the torque it had.

Last night I challenged a trans am that beat me by a half a car a few weeks ago, he said he wasn't tuned in yet and I said neither was I. I was running darn good but he was running much much better. Then I found out he doesn't exactly advertise the bottle. I guess that's what he meant about not being tuned in yet.

Also that looseness/oversteer in the rear from the slicks is still there but I just got used to it I guess. Only noticed it once.
Most of the loose rear feeling comes mostly from the low air pressure, and that radials and bias ply tires are NEVER a good mix either. Maybe not faster, but I would think drag radials would be much more stable, or bias ply fronts. It's never a win on the roof upside down at the end of the track.

[55 Tony]

Most of the loose rear feeling comes mostly from the low air pressure, and that radials and bias ply tires are NEVER a good mix either. Maybe not faster, but I would think drag radials would be much more stable, or bias ply fronts. It's never a win on the roof upside down at the end of the track.

I did find one thing that really helps a lot but I expect some disagreements here or I would have posted it a while ago. Since the loose feeling in the rear feels like oversteer, lowering the air pressure in the fronts it helps correct it. And yes I know that probably causes more rolling resistance, but for what I'm doing, one little thing like that isn't that big a deal.

I had the same basic problem on my van when I got new tires on the front. They have very stiff sidewalls which gave me oversteer so I lowered the pressure in the front and increased it in the rear. Problem solved, and the tires are wearing just fine. Yes I'm sure if I put 4 new tires on it, it probably would never have been a problem, but it is what it is.

[markm]

Even a 502 needs a small dome to get to 10:1, and that's with some fairly small chambers (110 cc).

Not sure but I think flattpp and bbc start to result in decent compression about 540 cubes.

[Rick_L]

That would probably be right - the 502 dome is tiny to get the 10:1. Maybe only 0.050"-0.060" tall.

[solidsguy]

The only way I know to get 10-1 with a 454 is a dome, Flat top closed chamber is still about 8.8 -1. Forget 327/350 when talking BBC.

My first reaction was to doubt that. A 396 10.5 motor has small domes, but I would have thought something with as big of bore and stroke of a 454 wouldn't need domes. However, these in this picture are supposedly 454 closed chamber 11.1 pistons, so I stand corrected.

8969

[55 Tony]

My 454 calculates somewhere around 10.25:1 with these and open chamber heads. Somehow I get 210psi cranking pressure. The heads seem to be milled considerably and were not cc'd so maybe that ratio is low?