PDA

View Full Version : LED Headlight Upgrade Question



enigma57
07-13-2018, 03:10 PM
I have a question. I want to upgrade the headlights on my '57 to LED (brightness) but do not want the 'halo' feature so any of these lights have. What is the best way to wire up LED lights? And because the lights I have found are 150W total, will I need to add a relay or heavier gauge wiring? (My '57s wiring is stock now)......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-7Inch-Round-150W-Total-CREE-LED-Headlights-Hi-Lo-97-17-JEEP-JK-TJ-LJ-Wrangler-/222734456769

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am more comfortable turning wrenches than wiring things......

Thanks,

Harry

enigma57
07-14-2018, 03:20 AM
Just wanted to add that as the LED lights should draw less current than say halogen bulbs, I was hoping that would make the changeover to LEDs easier.

Thanks,

HB

Rustaddict
07-14-2018, 06:16 AM
Putting relays on your stock lights would wake them up a little bit

55 Tony
07-15-2018, 05:59 AM
Just wanted to add that as the LED lights should draw less current than say halogen bulbs, I was hoping that would make the changeover to LEDs easier.

Thanks,

HB

Yes, LED's take less amperage/lumen. A lot of people think halogen lights create a lot of heat, the truth is that a 100 watt incandescent bulb will generate the exact same amount of heat and take the same exact amount of power as a 100 watt halogen bulb, and a 100 watt LED will also be the same heat and power. The difference lies in the light output. Now if the bulbs are different wattage's, that's a whole different story. Choose your lights according to lumens, then compare the wattage, or the amperage if you like since the will all be operated at the same voltage. I think there are a lot of LED headlights on the market, to me, those look a bit goofy. Maybe not quite as weird as the led circle ones, but odd when they are turned off. Maybe they really belong in a jeep like it shows. They also have a top and bottom row of lower output led's that can be used for parking lights or turn signals, but I didn't see what color they are, I would hope amber?

Back to your question, I'm certain no matter what led headlights you choose, they will draw less power. So you don't need to upgrade the wiring such as adding a relay. If your current bulbs are dim, you can try running a wire from the battery to the one light and see how much brighter it is. This will simulate how bright they may be with a relay.

chevynut
07-15-2018, 07:22 PM
Yes, LED's take less amperage/lumen.

And LEDs use less POWER per lumen. LEDs use about 10-15% of the power of an incandescent bulb for the same amount of light (lumens).


A lot of people think halogen lights create a lot of heat, the truth is that a 100 watt incandescent bulb will generate the exact same amount of heat and take the same exact amount of power as a 100 watt halogen bulb, and a 100 watt LED will also be the same heat and power.

That depends on how they're spec'd. A "60 Watt" LED bulb is really a 60-watt "equivalent" bulb. It will draw about 10% of the power as an incandescent. I think they spec them as "60 watt" because people don't know what "lumens" are.

Also, not all bulbs are equally efficient at turning electrical current into light. A halogen bulb will emit more light for a given wattage than an incandescent bulb will. The halogen bulbs run hotter because they draw more current at the same voltage. So they DO run hotter when you replace incandescent headlights with halogen headlights.

chevynut
07-15-2018, 07:23 PM
I bought a set of H4 Hella headlights years ago for my Nomad but I'm kinda liking the "halo" headlights. Anyone know of the best/coolest (not as in heat) brand out there?

Rick_L
07-15-2018, 07:36 PM
Cnut's comment about how the LEDs are rated is very important. Most of the non-LED "performance" headlights draw 55-65 watts. I find it hard to believe that a DOT legal LED headlight draws 75 watts - but I don't doubt they can be the "equivalent" of a 75 watt headlight that's not LED.

So this is a matter of doing your homework.

From what I've seen, most of the LED headlights out there are quite expensive too. And the cost of a relay does not make up for the difference.

All this is a moving target as prices on LED stuff are getting better, or will be in the future.

enigma57
07-19-2018, 02:50 AM
Thanks, guys! Much to think about. Laszlo, the great majority of 7" round LED headlight conversions I have looked at on e-Bay drew less wattage than these and they have the 'halo' feature you like.

I do not want halo lights on my '57. Just want brighter lights for night driving. So I was looking for LED lights without the halo feature that had highest wattage. Figured they would be the brightest.

Rick, I have no idea if these lights are DOT legal. The description indicated that each light was 75 watts and both drew 150 watts. Short of mounting some aircraft landing lights in the grille, those seemed like a good choice. :evil:

I'll do some more research before buying lights. Will also check with seller to verify whether 150 watts is actual current draw or is equivalent of 75 watt non-LED bulb.

Haven't been able to get around very well following the wreck (re-injured lower back that was operated on 21 years ago). So I've been busy scrounging hard to find bits for my carburettor rebuild. Its been quite a scavenger hunt thus far.

Best regards to all,

Harry

chevynut
07-19-2018, 06:49 AM
Harry, ANY LED will draw less current for the same light output than a halogen or incandescent bulb. So ANY LED headlight you get will not require relays. In fact, current draw is typically about 85-90% less for LEDs. The "watts" rating is only so you can attempt to compare them directly with conventional bulbs. Let's say that a halogen bulb uses 55 watts of power so an LED will use around 6 watts for the same light output. That's confusing for some people and from a marketing perspective it would be a disaster....who would buy a 6 watt headlight? :p

One more thing. I had 60 watt incandescents in my garage and I replaced them with "60 watt" equivalent LEDs. They're quite a bit brighter. Note also that LEDs run a lot cooler than other bulbs, because of the low power consumption.

Rick_L
07-19-2018, 04:30 PM
I've not researched LED headlights much. What I do know is that they are rather expensive, and that many of them have those goofy haloes and other features. Maybe a half day of googling would find you an honest and direct explanation of amp draw and lumens on a straightforward 7" replacement. I'd be looking at truck stuff before I finished.

chevynut
07-19-2018, 09:59 PM
One thing I found that I don't like about the Hella headlights is that they're flat-faced. I think a tri5 should have "domed" bulbs like the original ones. So I'll be looking for a pair of halo bulbs which I think are cool (look at all the new cars) but they have to have a domed face, have to be glass (not plastic) construction, and accept an H4 bulb or be full LEDs. I don't want a sealed-beam with LED halos.

Here's s ton of choices:

https://www.octanelighting.com/products/lighting-products/headlights/7-headlights

chevynut
07-19-2018, 10:24 PM
Here's a zillion more to confuse you.....

https://www.carid.com/1956-chevy-bel-air-led-headlights/

BamaNomad
07-20-2018, 05:17 AM
One thing I found that I don't like about the Hella headlights is that they're flat-faced. I think a tri5 should have "domed" bulbs like the original ones. So I'll be looking for a pair of halo bulbs which I think are cool (look at all the new cars) but they have to have a domed face, have to be glass (not plastic) construction, and accept an H4 bulb or be full LEDs. I don't want a sealed-beam with LED halos.

Here's s ton of choices:

https://www.octanelighting.com/products/lighting-products/headlights/7-headlights

I like your logic there CN... Let us know what you choose and how it goes?

55 Rescue Dog
07-20-2018, 03:09 PM
Personally I think LED lights look totally out of place on any old car, and actually look pretty dorky on many cars. The more I see them, the less I like them, which has turned into another fad. They looked cool 4 years ago. Too me, the headlights on most old cars are still the best. The soft white incandescent lights always look great, and part of the charm. I've had many cars that I would have liked to replaced the "modern" aero , usually clouded up $200+ea. headlights that didn't work that great, with a simple sealed beam glass headlamp that only cost $7 simply changed removing 3 screws. You could replace one in the middle of nowhere at night in 5 minutes. I always thought they worked great when aimed correctly, and you could see a long way with the high-beams on. Fuel mileage, and blending into the body work are why they have changed so much, not always for better light.
Back the OP, you could simply buy good sealed beams, improve the wiring, and add a relay. Most important thing with any headlight is to find a shop that can correctly align them, just like you would with tires/wheels. They have to be pointed in the right way to work best.

55 Tony
07-21-2018, 04:14 PM
I agree with rescue dog. The led headlights just don't go with the 50's. The worst I have seen is the halo's. Looked outright grotesquely gaudy the very first time I saw them on a round headlight. On new cars I don't mind a strip of leds maybe going along the top of the lens. Looks like it's 2018. Maybe they can put led's on those rubber band tires just to see how ugly you can make a car. On the 55 I aligned my own headlights. If you can park it fairly level and the lights shine on the garage door, or a wall, you can get close adjusting them. Then drive it and see if you need a little more adjustment. I had it written down somewhere but can't find it, my friend a mechanic told me exactly how to aim the headlights that way. A set number of feet away, in PA I think it's 3° to the right and so many inches high. Switch to hi beams and the 3° offset goes straight, so it's easier to adjust then with the high beams on, then check with the low beams.

55 Rescue Dog
07-21-2018, 04:26 PM
You can actually get pretty close just pulling up closely to a white garage door, marking a cross + with tape on the center of the beams, and backing straight away on a level driveway, and see if they move up/down, left/right as you move back.

55 Rescue Dog
07-21-2018, 06:01 PM
What's really annoying with some new cars, is when the hallow turns off when the turn signals are applied. Just looks plain stupid, and deceiving, if they even use them at all.

chevynut
07-21-2018, 09:50 PM
Wow some of you guys are really stuck in the past. I find it hard to believe that some guys still uses a carburetor that's been out-dated for over 30 years, still run white-lettered tires, think that anything with electronic controls is "too complicated", hack the fenders of their cars to make the tires "fit", and don't really want to see the road at night. :D

Next we'll be hearing about how drum brakes "feel so much better" than disc brakes and how much "simpler" a single piston master cylinder is. Or maybe how manual steering just brings back the nostalgia of driving, and how a stock suspension allows the car to roll making it a much more "enjoyable" ride. I'm sure some of them would rather crank their windows down because it takes them back to their childhood. :D

Stock incandescent headlights just plain suck as far as light output. It would be a lot easier, and better imo, to install 7" LEDs than to add relays to run inferior lights. And the LEDs last a lot longer and give much better light quality. Modern technology is so much better than the crap from 60 years ago and most guys have moved into the 21st century. But if that's what you like, and it's legal, by all means do it. Nobody cares.

55 Rescue Dog
07-22-2018, 05:29 AM
My 08 Silverado had rear drum brakes, that had way better braking performance than my 02 Silverado with 4 wheel discs. It also had manual windows/locks that were not that difficult to operate, and the incandescent headlights where too bright, after getting flashed from oncoming traffic many times. Never had to replace the bulbs after 10 years either, and the stock suspension handled great. New cars are amazing, but with the countless electronic computer controlled systems on the car they have made them so complicated even the dealer can't fix some of them. It is not possible to make an old car anything like a modern car. ABS, airbags, stability control, countless safety features, and engine controls that makes 25 year old fuel injection tech not that much better than a carb.

markm
07-22-2018, 09:36 AM
I have a buddy that Hotrod mag did a 4 page article on was built with wildwood disk upfront and Impala 11 inch drums in rear, why he runs the shop in town that everyone takes their conversions that don't work to get them straighten out too, Cnut you just need to go but a new Corvette whatever, I don't know what top dog is anymore, or a Hellcat and its everything you want done. I have ran Halogens for years but no space ship lights or gang banger wheels for me.

55 Rescue Dog
07-22-2018, 05:18 PM
Wow some of you guys are really stuck in the past. I find it hard to believe that some guys still uses a carburetor that's been out-dated for over 30 years, still run white-lettered tires, think that anything with electronic controls is "too complicated", hack the fenders of their cars to make the tires "fit", and don't really want to see the road at night. :D

Next we'll be hearing about how drum brakes "feel so much better" than disc brakes and how much "simpler" a single piston master cylinder is. Or maybe how manual steering just brings back the nostalgia of driving, and how a stock suspension allows the car to roll making it a much more "enjoyable" ride. I'm sure some of them would rather crank their windows down because it takes them back to their childhood. :D

Stock incandescent headlights just plain suck as far as light output. It would be a lot easier, and better imo, to install 7" LEDs than to add relays to run inferior lights. And the LEDs last a lot longer and give much better light quality. Modern technology is so much better than the crap from 60 years ago and most guys have moved into the 21st century. But if that's what you like, and it's legal, by all means do it. Nobody cares.
Just curious. How many cars do you own, or have driven with LED headlights?

BamaNomad
07-22-2018, 08:20 PM
Wow some of you guys are really stuck in the past. I find it hard to believe that some guys still uses a carburetor that's been out-dated for over 30 years, still run white-lettered tires, think that anything with electronic controls is "too complicated", hack the fenders of their cars to make the tires "fit", and don't really want to see the road at night. :D

Next we'll be hearing about how drum brakes "feel so much better" than disc brakes and how much "simpler" a single piston master cylinder is. Or maybe how manual steering just brings back the nostalgia of driving, and how a stock suspension allows the car to roll making it a much more "enjoyable" ride. I'm sure some of them would rather crank their windows down because it takes them back to their childhood. :D

Stock incandescent headlights just plain suck as far as light output. It would be a lot easier, and better imo, to install 7" LEDs than to add relays to run inferior lights. And the LEDs last a lot longer and give much better light quality. Modern technology is so much better than the crap from 60 years ago and most guys have moved into the 21st century. But if that's what you like, and it's legal, by all means do it. Nobody cares.


:) Try it... you'll LIKE it.. :)

55 Tony
07-23-2018, 04:41 AM
Some people have no interest in nostalgia, some do.

55 Tony
07-23-2018, 04:56 AM
I have a buddy that Hotrod mag did a 4 page article on was built with wildwood disk upfront and Impala 11 inch drums in rear,

I have cheap conversion (I believe hand made) disc brake adapters and Impalla 11" on the rear also (an Impalla rear). I had to put smaller wheel cylinders in the rear to keep them from locking up too early. Yes I could have used a separate proportioning valve, but didn't want the extra parts.

Belair-o
07-23-2018, 06:10 AM
One thing I found that I don't like about the Hella headlights is that they're flat-faced. I think a tri5 should have "domed" bulbs like the original ones. So I'll be looking for a pair of halo bulbs which I think are cool (look at all the new cars) but they have to have a domed face, have to be glass (not plastic) construction, and accept an H4 bulb or be full LEDs. I don't want a sealed-beam with LED halos.

Here's s ton of choices:

https://www.octanelighting.com/products/lighting-products/headlights/7-headlights

FWIW, and maybe not much, I saw an oncoming new VW Bug yesterday, and it had halos that extended only about a third of the way around the light. Maybe that would be preferable, rather than extending all the way around the light.

BamaNomad
07-23-2018, 06:58 AM
besides people thinking halo bulbs are 'cute' or 'cool'... WHAT purpose/function does the Halo do?? or is it just a 'distraction' to other drivers...??

55 Rescue Dog
07-23-2018, 04:00 PM
^^^ I agree! Fart can exhausts, giant spoilers, undercar LED's, etc. used to be cute, and cool too. I've done plenty of tasteless mods myself going back to the 70's. And I still do, according to my kids, that drive the latest cars out there.
Even they would think LED halo headlights on my 55 would be a train wreck. The LED's in my house and shop make perfect sense though, but never on an old car even trying to be like a new one.
One of my favorite car movies was American Graffiti, and it would destroy the movie if all of the old classic cars were cruising around with LED halo's.

Rick_L
07-23-2018, 05:37 PM
Saw an ad today on the other site that sells led headlights with either stock looking lenses or Hella type lenses. Unfortunately I didn't post the link then and I can't find their ad back (rotating banner ad), does not show up on google either or the other site's sponsor list. Will post it if I see it again. Cost was a bit over $100 per light, 24w power consumption. Only one version was stock yellow light (more expensive), most were either white (5000 Kelvin) or blue (7000 Kelvin). Headlight buckets would require the same mods as 55w halogen lights.

I love the 5000 Kelvin for shop lights. 7000 Kelvin I don't like in a shop light. Either one kind of drive me crazy when meeting cars with them in traffic.

enigma57
07-25-2018, 11:58 PM
Thanks for the ideas! I may retrofit LEDs for the brighter light so long as they have no 'halo' lights and don't detract from the appearance of my '57. Still researching that.

Laszlo...... As for carburettors...... Yes, I will run 3 Webers on the '66 292 inline 6 I'm building and swapping into the '57. No fuel injection.

And no disc brakes. I am adapting larger drum brakes from a '59 - '64 Chevy and will use cryogenically treated drums and ceramic shoes. Will also add power brakes. Possibly one of your hydro-boost setups.

Jury is still out on power steering. Have made some modifications to steering gear in the past that makes steering more positive (less slop) and easier to steer, though I've never had a '55 - '57 Chevy with power steering. Not sure I need it. But you can rest assured the car will handle well, as I will add stiffer springing, firmer shocks and some serious anti-sway bars front and rear just as I have done with all these cars I've built since 1970.

No white letter tires. Most likely blackwall radials on 1990s 9C1 cop car wheels. Just because I like them. If it were all about appearance, I'd go for a set of redline tires like my '69 SS396 Nova came with. But I doubt they are available as radials in the size and speed rating I am looking for.

A/C? Absolutely. Its been over 100 degrees here for weeks now and this car will be a driver. So yes, I will definitely retrofit an A/C system.

Sorry to have been away from the forum a few days. I may be posting less often for a while. Will spare you the details, but went to see the doctor today and he set me up for surgery Friday. Hoping all goes well. Recovery will take some time. No, its not the back injury. Still need to deal with that. Will post again when I can.

Best regards to all,

Harry

BamaNomad
07-26-2018, 05:56 AM
Harry,

Good luck on a successful surgery for you tomorrow! I want to see your car after all those mods.. :)

Gary

55 Tony
07-26-2018, 02:23 PM
FWIW, and maybe not much, I saw an oncoming new VW Bug yesterday, and it had halos that extended only about a third of the way around the light. Maybe that would be preferable, rather than extending all the way around the light.

I like a lot of the ones that look sort of like an eyebrow. I saw some new car yesterday that had what I'm sure is factory, leds all the way around a headlight with a weird shape. That was fugly.

Let me edit and say that although I sort of like the "eyebrow" look, that doesn't go for older vehicles with round headlights. A VW Bug is what I'd call a "silly car". They are different and tend to look like the old ones, not as much anymore but still you know at a glance if it's a Bug. So with the "silly car" theme, I'd say go ahead and make the lights silly too.

55 Tony
07-26-2018, 02:29 PM
I love the 5000 Kelvin for shop lights. 7000 Kelvin I don't like in a shop light. Either one kind of drive me crazy when meeting cars with them in traffic.

I can't see well at all with 7000 Kelvin and I don't even like the 5000 Kelvin shop lights. I bought the 4700 Kelvin for the whole shop. Must be my eyes but I can see much better with them. Funny how 300 Kelvin difference makes such a difference, to me anyway.

55 Tony
07-26-2018, 02:41 PM
Yes, good luck with the surgery Harry. My 55 has factory power steering and manual brakes. I don't know if it is supposed to be as easy as more modern (70's and 80's) p/s, but it isn't. One of these days I'll figure out what adapter I need to measure the pump pressure. The pump is from 1978. For the brakes, I moved the master cylinder push rod just a little higher on the pedal and it's quite a difference. The master cylinder is a 1" Nova style. For some folks it's too soft of a pedal, for me, as long as stomping on them locks up all 4 wheels without the pedal hitting the floor, then it's good to go.

55 Rescue Dog
07-26-2018, 03:24 PM
One of drum brakes benefits is that they are self-energizing, and have great stopping power with not that much pedal pressure when set up correctly. They also have a lot of swept area too. They cannot take the heat from multiple hard long stops as well as disc brakes mostly. Most power brakes are too soft and hard to modulate during intensive braking.
On my Camaro, I love the Wilwood pedals with side by side Howe master cylinders with and adjustable F/R balance bar. I also have F/R brake pressure gauges, hydraulic park lock on the front, with an adjustable pressure reducing valve to the rear. Using 4 GM 12 inch rotors, with grippy race pads. I think the pedal ratio is 6:25 to one, and I think I am using 7/8th masters cylinders F/R.
No matter what vehicle or brake system you have, If you can come up with something that can stop in less than 120 feet from 60 MPH you have damn good brakes. Most vehicles, even now are way over that. My 96 Impala SS could stop in a 120 feet which is hard to with most new cars. I don't know what the stopping record is, but the shorter the better.

tikis ride
08-03-2018, 08:22 PM
Hey I installed a set of LED Grota lights they were about 350 online for the pair the only upgrade I needed to do was to my flashers because of the low draw ,LED flashers are about $10 a piece online there a great classy look but what an incredible difference in driving at night...

enigma57
08-13-2018, 04:59 AM
Thanks guys for your well wishes. Made it through the operation OK and am recovering now. Not out of the woods yet, but doing much better. :)

Some great information here. Really appreciate your input. This will help me make some informed choices when doing my upgrades. Main thing for me when upgrading my '57 is that I do not want to do anything that takes away from the original character of the car. So no 4" exhaust tips on smaller diameter pipes, no 20" wheels with rubber band tires and no halo anything...... Just want seriously brighter lights for night driving when making road trips. Something stock looking, only brighter. Much brighter. The exception being if I could find Hella style LED headlights that have a convex lens like my original lights. Have always thought the Hella lights were just plain good looking. Browsing through here just now......

http://www.rallylights.com/all/headlamps/l/7-round-conversion

Of course, I could just add Hella driving lights and do something less dramatic than a full LED headlight upgrade. Hmmm......

https://www.amazon.com/slp/hella-lights/str8cd49aam45fm

Best regards to all,

Harry