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turk1955
08-25-2018, 08:37 AM
Ok so thinking about switching over to a hydraulic clutch system and looking for insite on who makes the best kit, my 55 Bel Air has a 350 with block hugger headers, 605 power steering box, and Saginaw 4 speed

markm
08-25-2018, 08:44 AM
Have you considered shipping you wore out junk when new stuff for his upgrades Earl Williams. On my 55 it was money well spent I had lots of issues. I have a BBC, Headers, and 500 PS with a Tremec TKO 600. Moved 2.25 forward.

turk1955
08-25-2018, 08:59 AM
Nothing wrong with clutch just hard to push in pedal as when the new power steering box was installed the clutch arm had to be shortened for it to fit causing the problem.

markm
08-25-2018, 09:09 AM
Not sure why you had to do that, is motor moved.

Rick_L
08-25-2018, 09:10 AM
You shouldn't have had to do that. I don't understand what the p/s box has to do with clutch linkage. Got photos?

There area two ways to go on the hydraulic clutch. One is a slave cylinder that pushes on the original style clutch fork. Check out novak.com. Their main business is jeep conversions but their hydraulic slave will fit many cars. The other is a hydraulic throwout bearing. McLeod makes some. With either one you also need a clutch master cylinder and the linkage for it. This stuff isn't cheap either.

turk1955
08-25-2018, 06:30 PM
No motor is still in its original position the only change was the newer steering box, also I didn't do the install was like this when I bought it.

markm
08-26-2018, 09:36 AM
Is this one of those early 605 jobs with a plate holding the halves together, if so just get a CCP 500 and you will be a lot happier.

turk1955
08-28-2018, 10:10 AM
Ok so after having a friend operate the clutch pedal I was able to watch the linkage move and it seems fine, I was told that the linkage had been changed but it looks untouched everything appears fine but it still very hard to push in and when releasing it doesn't start to engage till about half way off the floor and then it grabs hard. Maybe the through out bearing ?

Rick_L
08-28-2018, 10:35 AM
Have you tried adjusting the linkage so that the clutch engages closer to the floor?

turk1955
08-30-2018, 12:45 PM
91519152 I took 2 pitchers hope someone can see the problem as to me it appears the push rod is to short

Rick_L
08-30-2018, 03:44 PM
Looks like the OEM part. Do you have it adjusted all the way out? If it's engaging too late, you'd want to shorten the adjustment anyway.

55 Rescue Dog
08-31-2018, 04:52 AM
You should have some free-play when disengaged, which also adjusts the engagement point off of the floor, so yes it looks like you need too shorten the pushrod adjustment. If you make it longer, it would be worse. From your description it sounds like you probably don't have any free play, and the throw out bearing is riding on the pressure plate, which is not good, or the clutch is worn out.

turk1955
09-09-2018, 07:37 AM
917391749175 Ok guys I added some more pitchers of my clutch linkage and it looks like the point where the clutch pedal rod connects to the Z-bar has been shortened to miss the steering box, now I know everyone says that shouldn't have to be but the new Z-bar I just got as the same except it hasn't been cut. Anyone can tell me what's been put on incorrectly that would cause this problem. HELP

markm
09-09-2018, 09:57 AM
If the z-bar was shortened that would change your ratio and cause more pedal effort. I had to move the short lever on z bar on my 55 to clear canister oil filter on 1965 BBC, but its still stock length.

turk1955
09-10-2018, 03:28 PM
Ok so after doing some research I have found that the power steering box is not a 605 but a Delphi 600, so with that being said is their a clutch linkage that will work with it?

55 Rescue Dog
09-10-2018, 03:47 PM
As far as your original question on hydraulics, I've been extremely happy with the Howe hydraulic TO bearing in front of a Muncie with a 7/8th master. Tried a 3/4, but too long of a throw. It is so smooth and effortless, and one of the best clutch setups I've ever had on a hot rod. Only catch is I'm using Wilwood racing pedals, and a bent-finger diaphragm pressure plate designed for hydraulic clutches. Issue free for over 7 years now, with perfect take-up, and disengagement . Other than the pedal setup, the hydraulic throw-out bearing was easy to install following the instructions, with one line in, and a bleeder line out of the big hole in the side of the bell housing where the mechanical linkage was. Best part is, obstructions are not an issue!

Rick_L
09-10-2018, 04:15 PM
Is the arm on the z-bar hitting the steering box on the side, or does the steering box prevent full travel?

Judging from the photos, I think the stock manual box might have the same problems.

Aussienomad
09-10-2018, 04:53 PM
9173Ok guys I added some more pitchers of my clutch linkage and it looks like the point where the clutch pedal rod connects to the Z-bar has been shortened to miss the steering box, now I know everyone says that shouldn't have to be but the new Z-bar I just got as the same except it hasn't been cut. Anyone can tell me what's been put on incorrectly that would cause this problem. HELP


From this pic it looks like the bar is hitting the steering box. Is that the case?
Maybe move the push rod to the other side of the z bar bracket.
Another option might be to move the z bar bracket a bit, away from the steering box.

chevynut
09-10-2018, 06:33 PM
Nothing wrong with clutch just hard to push in pedal as when the new power steering box was installed the clutch arm had to be shortened for it to fit causing the problem.

So if you shortened the upper z-bar arm and left the lower one the stock length, the clutch will take more force to actuate.

A couple of fixes.....lengthen the upper arm back to stock length and put a jog in it and jog the upper pushrod to clear the steering box. You could also put a stock-length upper arm on it and move it toward the engine, and move the pushrod over with it....jog it if needed. OR, you could shorten the lower arm the same amount. The issue I see with the last option is the throw will get shorter....however it still might be enough.

turk1955
09-11-2018, 10:49 AM
Thanks for all the info and ideas, think first I am going to install my new Z-Bar setup and try moving the upper link over just a little and see if that works as that will be my cheapest option.

chasracer
09-12-2018, 12:02 AM
My questions are what style of clutch do you have? Diaphragm or Borg-Warner and is it a normal model or H.P. unit? Huge difference in the effort it takes to operate a Borg-Warner style unit compared to a diaphragm type - I mean just that simple difference can mean a car that a 85 pound woman could drive (with diaphragm) versus one that she couldn't push the pedal in on. If it's a race unit compared to a street unit, you can about double the effort required.

markm
09-12-2018, 06:44 AM
Back in the late 70s I had a 3500# Borg & Beck with roller assist in my 67 Camaro it required a Competition Engineering firewall brace to keep the firewall from flexing. I was damn near like pushing on a brake pedal. It would fold up a 55-57 linkage with the first hit.

Rick_L
09-12-2018, 11:05 AM
I remember having a similar but homemade firewall brace on my Camaro. Tied the master cylinder area to the steering box. At least trifives don't flex the firewall like an early Camaro, mainly because of the good pedal support and stiff dash.

markm
09-12-2018, 01:46 PM
You described the bracket perfectly, while trifives dash are stiff the shallow splines on pedal under dash are the weak link. I cannot believe original poster has not a problem there since it appears someone reduces his pedal ratio. You are one of the ones who encouraged me to ship my 55 stuff to Earl Williams. His upgrades were as useful to 55 as the brace was to Camaro. I still have the brace on the Camaro although it has a much tamer diaphragm clutch.

55 Rescue Dog
09-12-2018, 03:25 PM
I would love a great way to make a very stiff brake pedal mount in a tri-five. Only twist is I'm going try and figure out how to make a stiff mount for a manual Wilwood brake pedal with side by side master cylinders, which allows for stagger cylinder diameters, plus a brake balance bar.

enigma57
09-19-2018, 02:31 AM
Ok guys I added some more pitchers of my clutch linkage and it looks like the point where the clutch pedal rod connects to the Z-bar has been shortened to miss the steering box, now I know everyone says that shouldn't have to be but the new Z-bar I just got as the same except it hasn't been cut. Anyone can tell me what's been put on incorrectly that would cause this problem. HELP

https://www.trifive.com/garage/55%20Chevy%20Assembly%20Manual/6-10.gif

Turk, looking at the photos you posted on page 2...... I see 3 issues (#4 is probably not part of your problem, but would bear looking into just to be safe) ......

1. Engine has been moved forward. That means the pivot point on frame must be moved forward same amount and rod from clutch pedal to Z-bar must be lengthened by same amount as well. If engine has been lowered or raised any at rear, or shifted slightly towards passenger side to gain clearance to steering box...... Be sure Z-bar pivot points are adjusted to ensure Z-bar is horizontal to ground and square to chassis as well.

2. Rod from clutch pedal to Z-bar is mounted on wrong side of Z-bar. Probably to gain clearance to header primary tube, but this puts both ends of rod in a bind, increasing friction and pedal pressure to move Z-bar.

3. Hard to tell for sure in photos, but it looks like upper arm on Z-bar may contact rear extension of new steering box when clutch pedal is depressed and upper arm is pushed forward.

4. Probably not and issue here, but make sure you have correct length release bearing for style pressure plate you are running, as well.

These are some of the issues encountered when moving engine forward. I have done only 1 big block swap into a '55 Chevy and that was many moons ago. Steering box was not changed and engine was not moved forward. We did not convert to side engine mounts. Used stock '55 - '57 bellhousing and bellhousing mounts. Made front mount angle brackets for big block that allowed us to shift stock front mount stands forward to 6-cylinder holes in front crossmember. Also had to relocate radiator forward to 6-cyl. position and have radiator redone with thicker core.

Trial fitted engine several times. Marked firewall for rear of wider big block heads and distributor clearance. After pulling engine and removing wiper motor to prevent damage, worked out on firewall with 15 lb. sledge hammer to reshape it where interference points noted. Probably wouldn't hurt to do this before installing windshield, but we didn't have new rubber windshield gaskets available in those days and managed to pull it off without cracking windshield. After trial fitting engine to make sure no more issues with firewall, painted (and in this instance, undercoated firewall and allowed it to dry before installing engine for final time. Firewall area adjacent to distributor did not require much, as we were running standard diameter distributor (no HEIs in those days...... We ran dual point distributor).

If you change over to hydraulic setup, let us know how it works for you. I am thinking of adapting one of the Jeep type slave cylinders myself, as these 70 year old knees are pretty shot. If I do this, I believe I will use the older style external mounted slave cylinder rather than the more expensive type that fits inside bellhousing, as they are easier to bleed and replace and more importantly, as with the mechanical linkage, have a return spring and can be properly adjusted to have a small amount of air gap so clutch release bearing is not in constant contact with fingers on pressure plate and constantly spinning even when pedal is not depressed. At my age, the very thought of that and of having to pull the tranny to replace the release bearing more often than should be necessary gives me pause.

(This is assuming length of arms and pivot points (both upper and lower) on Z-bar have not been shortened. If either have been shortened, the proper ratio between pivot points at rod connections must be restored. Otherwise, alles ist kaput.)

Good luck in sorting out your clutch issues,

Harry

Rick_L
09-19-2018, 06:14 AM
I disagree with moving the pivot for the z-bar forward if the engine is moved forward. Leave it in the same place on the frame. That means the rod from the clutch pedal to the z-bar remains the same. The bracket for the pivot ball that bolts to the bellhousing must be shortened, as well as the lower linkage rod.

Moving the z-bar forward changes the geometry of the linkage, and will require elongating the hole in the firewall where the upper rod comes through. That also may be where the steering box interference comes from.

turk1955
09-19-2018, 07:48 AM
Thanks for all the info, at this time I am thinking hard on switching to a 700R as it would make it easer for the wife to drive, still on the fence as the $$ to make this change is up their.

enigma57
09-19-2018, 08:33 AM
I disagree with moving the pivot for the z-bar forward if the engine is moved forward. Leave it in the same place on the frame. That means the rod from the clutch pedal to the z-bar remains the same. The bracket for the pivot ball that bolts to the bellhousing must be shortened, as well as the lower linkage rod.

Moving the z-bar forward changes the geometry of the linkage, and will require elongating the hole in the firewall where the upper rod comes through. That also may be where the steering box interference comes from.

:) You could do it that way as well, Rick.

Happy Motoring,

Harry

markm
09-19-2018, 09:05 AM
Always sad when someone goes auto, I have a 700r4 in 56 and wish it was a Muncie. Th350 in Corvette wish it was T10.I do have a Tremec in 55 and two 4 speed Camaros.

turk1955
09-19-2018, 10:51 AM
Gots ta keep wife happy though I am still on the fence on changing to an auto thinking if I can find the proper hydraulic setup I mite say with the 4 speed just seems to to a lot of + and -'s on running that setup.