Flaming River tilt column and cruise control

[chevynut]

Got to working on figuring out how to wire up my cruise control using the Dakota Digita (Rostra) unit with turn signal arm controls and a Flaming River tilt column. After reading the instructions I was disappointed to find out that DD tells you to run the wires on the turn signal lever on the outside of the column. What BS. So I searched the web looking for something on how to get the wires routed inside the column down to the column connector and found nothing so far.

I did, however, look at FR's site and they sell the same Rostra cruise control. There's a note that says....

Note: We recommend ordering this item at the same time you purchase your Flaming River column. Our column assemblers will install the unit on the column before it ships.

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0001/s0025/FR20118-4


http://www.flamingriver.com/sysimg/tn250_electronic-cruise-control-kit-for-flaming-river-column-fr20118-4.jpg
I don't know if they really mean ON the column or if they route the wires inside the column when it's assembled. I know disassembly and re-assembly of a tilt column can be a big PITA so it would be nice to be able to get the wires inside somehow without disassembling it if I can.

Has anyone here done this or know of anyone who has? Can the wires be routed inside? I sure don't want the wires strapped to the side of my column. :geek:

[Custer55]

You would think there is a way to get the wires inside the column but probably a big pain and "some dis-assembly required" I Would check with Flaming River to see if they can point you in the right direction. When I modified my van column that was one of the issues is that the wiring was on the outside of the column. I modified mine to get the wiring hidden inside but since I didn't add wires for cruise control so I would probably just go with push button controls that could be mounted in the counsel if I ever add cruise control.

[55 Rescue Dog]

I like Custer55's idea. There are better alternatives than on the turn signal switch anyway. I remember Painless use to make a 4 button/relay wireless remote horn button. Seemed like a good idea, but I don't know why it went away. I almost bought one. No modern cars have them on the turn signal lever anymore for some reason?

[Rick_L]

You can put the wires internally in a Flaming River column. It's actually pretty easy if you do it before you install the column.

I didn't do it for cruise, but added the switch and extra wires for the dimmer switch. But the column doesn't know what the wires are connected to.

It's been so long I don't remember who I bought the turn signal arm and switch from. The turn signal knob with the switch in it is the same style as the FR turn signal arm and knob. You can use some .023" or .030" mig wire to fish the wires through the column. The whole deal takes about 5 minutes. I'm not recalling now, but the connector for the turn signals, etc. may have had a blank terminal or two, making the wiring exiting from the column seamless also. I will see if I can find the vendor.

Modern cars have the cruise on the steering wheel, and lots more wires to pass through the column.

[WagonCrazy]

1. Call Flaming River Tech support in the morning to ask what's involved in running wires inside your column.
2. Or get some bluetooth capacity between your blinker lever and the cruise control unit under the hood and nix the wires altogether. :p

[Rick_L]

Well I have to walk back part of what I said, but that does not mean you can't get there from here.

My turn signal lever with switch came from Watson's Streetworks. www.watsons-streetworks.com or 860-859-0513.

This product can be used in a GM, Ididit, or FR column, and probably many others. It has a round stalk with a flat end bent correctly for these columns. The knob is aluminum billet, not like the FR knob, but they'll sell you a tilt mechanism knob that matches theirs (I need to buy one).

I was partially correct on the FR connector having unused terminal locations, but I don't have any terminals for that connector and don't have any idea where to get them, so for now I just have two flying wires (20 gauge) exiting the hole and grommet in the FR column where the rest of the harness does. Actually that's no big deal having those two tiny wires in that connector.

Watson's website is pretty hard to navigate, took me a while to find the product back and not much info. A phone call might serve one better.

They also have switches for the tilt lever too. Best I can see a couple of styles of knobs.

Or you could make your own.

[busterwivell]

I'm planning on adding cruise to my Ididit tilt column soon. I didn't realize it was going to be a big issue. I'll watch as you guys work thru this before I order anything.

[chevynut]

I e-mailed FR Tech support yesterday but haven't heard back from them yet. My column is not installed yet.

As you can see the cruise control turn signal arm has a connector on the end of the wires, so clearly that housing needs to come off. The turn signal harness seems to be a fairly tight fit in the grommet in the center of the column tube. But I think I can get the cruise control wires through it. The wires are all inside of a sheath so it's just one thing I have to pull through. I assume I need to remove the grommet before trying to fish any wires through, then re-install it.

Is there a particular hole in the top of the column that the wires should exit through? Do I need to take the column apart at all, such as removing the turn signal assembly?

This DD lever is supposed to be for an early GM column, but it's too wide to fit into the slot in the plastic turn signal switch for some reason. I guess I'll have to grind it down a little to make it fit. The one in the pic I posted looks like it's ground down a little and mine doesn't look like that.

On another note I called Dakota Digital Tech Support this morning. I was wanting some information about their PAC-1300A headlight/dome/retained accessory power module. I asked the guy how much current the "DOME" output could sink.....he had no idea and said he's never had that question asked so he put me on hold and came back without an answer. I asked how many incandescent bulbs it could drive and he said 2-3. He said if I wanted to drive more I would have to use a relay. I reminded him that using a relay would negate the function of the "soft" dome dimming and he said "oh yeah". I want to use the DOME output to drive a relay to invert my dome signal to +12V when the doors open to drive the lights in the doors, so I told him I wanted to drive that relay. He said he wasn't sure you could do that because the relay would "chatter". So why did he say I needed a relay if I wanted to drive more than 2-3 lights? :eek:

Next I asked him what the difference was between the "Headlight" and "Park light" outputs on the module. He put me on hold and came back and said they both go active low at the same time. So I asked why they have two different relays then, one to drive the headlights and one to drive the park lights. He said it was a "safety" thing. Huh? :confused:

One thing I forgot to ask is why they don't automatically turn on the taillights too. They need to go on with the park lights and stay on with the headlights. But if everything is driven the same, everything turns on at the same time. The instructions don't say a thing about taillights.

In the end I didn't know anything more about the controller than I did before I called. ;-)

[chevynut]

Here's another thing I found. In the Dakota Digital Cruise Control System manual there are a few things that are kinda weird regarding the wiring....

"Violet: Connect to cold side of brake light switch. This wire should have 12 volts only when the brakes are depressed. When the brake is not depressed it should be grounding through the brake light bulbs. If the brake light bulbs are not contacted or are burned out, the system will not operate. LED brake lights will not provide the proper grounding. If you have LED brake lights, use a relay to switch the violet wire between 12 volts and ground."

So apparently the violet wire goes to a "floating" input inside the controller that needs to be pulled to ground. I'm assuming it's an open-collector input with a pull-up resistor on it that pulls the input to 12V when the ground is not connected. I wonder why they didn't use a positive signal instead.

However, looking at the wiring diagram I see another signal......"1 Red/Brown positive brake". This signal goes to the 4-pin connector that goes to the column. It looks to me like the column switch just sends a 12V signal to the control unit when you turn the column switch to "off". So why couldn't a guy connect the brake switch to that input? :confused:

The violet wire input actually says "2 violet negative brake". To me that implies that the input should be GROUNDED when the brakes are applied, but the description above says it's grounded through the bulbs when the brakes are NOT applied and goes to +12 when the brakes are applied! Guess I need to call DD again and get another non-answer.

Moving on....Page 2:

Lt. Green: This wire is taped up in the harness and should not be connected to anything."

But on page 14:

"Light Green - Neutral Safety Switch (NSS) - (wire is taped at beginning of harness)
The NSS function is a safety feature of the cruise control. If a vehicle with an automatic transmission is accidentally "knocked" into neutral while the vehicle is in motion and the cruise control is active, the NSS wire, when connected, will disengage the Cruise Control before engine over-rev. Is the NSS wire is not "hooked up", the cruise control will function; however the engine over-rev protection will be inactive; this is dangerous and not recommended. This wire terminates in the harness."


Page 13:

"Dark Blue: Tachometer (TACH) wire
The TACH function is a safety feature of the cruise control. If a vehicle with an automatic transmission is accidentally "knocked" into neutral while the vehicle is in motion and the cruise control is active, the TACH wire, when connected, will disengage the Cruise Control before engine over-rev. If the TACH wire is not "hooked up", the cruise control will function; however the TACH over-rev protection will be inactive; this is dangerous and not recommended. Dakota Digital, INC. always recommends the attachment of the TACH wire."


So the above seems very conflicting to me. They tell you NOT to hook up the light green wire, then they say if you don't hook it up you can over-rev the engine. But the TACH input seems to protect from that as well.

The front page of the manual says "Manual of Automatic Transmission Compatibility". "No Clutch Switch Needed (Except Diesel)".

Since I have a manual transmission, I guess I only need the TACH signal. It must cut off at a fairly high RPM, thus the need for a clutch switch on a diesel.

Lots of confusing and conflicting stuff from DD. :p

[chevynut]

https://i0.wp.com/moesappaloosas.com/wp-content/uploads/pretty-inspiration-rostra-cruise-control-wiring-diagram-diagrams-of-rostra-cruise-control-wiring-diagram.jpg

[chevynut]

So here's something that bothers me. I was looking at the harness that comes out of the column, and when I turn the steering shaft I can tell that the DD shaft inside the column rubs on the harness. I thought there was an inner tube that the shaft was inside of to protect the wiring from this. How long until the shaft wears a hole in the insulation? :confused::geek:

[chevynut]

I didn't hear from FR for several days so I went to an online chat. I was told they install the cruise lever when the column is assembled, and that it "can't be done" with an assembled column. I take that to mean they don't do it that way. They want $50 plus shipping both ways to install mine. I might try to install it myself first and if I can't do it I'll send it to them. Still bothered by the fact that the shaft rubs on the harness inside the column.

Any tips? ;)

[kbuhagiar]

I didn't hear from FR for several days so I went to an online chat. I was told they install the cruise lever when the column is assembled, and that it "can't be done" with an assembled column. I take that to mean they don't do it that way. They want $50 plus shipping both ways to install mine. I might try to install it myself first and if I can't do it I'll send it to them. Still bothered by the fact that the shaft rubs on the harness inside the column.

Any tips? ;)

Chevynut,

You seem to be a details-oriented guy (like me), so I say give it a go. I've disassembled a few tilt columns, and it looks intimidating but so long as you take pictures and diagram where everything goes it's no big deal. Take your time. It will be worth it - and satisfying - in the long run.

[Rick_L]

There's no tube for the wire harness. The wires are just run through unused space. Seems like you could put a sleeve over the wires near the signal lever using spaghetti tube or even heat shrink if needed.

As I stated previously, it was a snap to install the signal lever with switch in my FR column. Takes 5 minutes. Pry the grommet out of the housing where the wires exit. Run a piece of mig wire up from the exit hole to the turn signal area. Attach the new wires to the "fish" wire by making a loop in the "fish" wire. Pull the "fish" wire and new wires back through the wire exit hole and put the grommet back in place. I didn't feel the need to cover the wires near the lever, they weren't rubbing.

[chevynut]

There's no tube for the wire harness. The wires are just run through unused space. Seems like you could put a sleeve over the wires near the signal lever using spaghetti tube or even heat shrink if needed.

I'm not worried about the turn signal/cruise wires, they're protected by a sleeve already. It just seemed odd to me that they let the shaft rub on the turn signal switch harness.


Pry the grommet out of the housing where the wires exit. Run a piece of mig wire up from the exit hole to the turn signal area. Attach the new wires to the "fish" wire by making a loop in the "fish" wire. Pull the "fish" wire and new wires back through the wire exit hole and put the grommet back in place. I didn't feel the need to cover the wires near the lever, they weren't rubbing.

I'll give it a try. Did you remove the turn signal switch from the top of the column first so you could get the mig wire where you wanted it? Seems like it might make it easier, but maybe not necessary. I haven't looked that closely at it.

[Rick_L]

Been a while, so my memory is foggy. I'm thinking no, I didn't remove the switch, that I guided it with a small screwdriver and maybe twisting the wire. What I do remember is that it was easier than I expected.

[chevynut]

Well it took me quite a bit longer than 5 minutes :p, but I did manage to get the cruise control harness installed. First I removed the grommet from the tube and I removed the screws from the turn signal switch and pulled it up and out to make it easier to route the cruise wires. The turn signal handle is higher in the column so routing is a little more difficult than running wires to the tilt lever. Next I fished a mig wire through as Rick suggested but I couldn't get it to go through from the bottom so I did it from the top and pulled it out from the bottom....same result. Then I removed the connector from the cruise wires and ground the lever to fit the turn signal switch properly. Not sure why I had to do that but it wouldn't fit as shipped from DD. Then I fed the wires through the lever hole and attached them to the mig wire with electrical tape. After pulling it through I attached the lever to the turn signal switch.

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One thing I noticed before I started this....actually years ago....is that the column collar seems to be clocked a little off from where it should be. I contacted FR right after I noticed it and sent them a pic but never followed through on getting it corrected. This is what it looks like and it doesn't seem right to me. I'll send them these pics and see if I need to correct it or if this is as good as it gets.

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Anyone know how the collar is indexed to the tilt mechanism and if there's a way to tweak it?

[Rick_L]

I just had a look at mine, and sure enough, it's about the same. The turn signal and tilt levers are not too bad, but like yours the hazard button is off fore/aft as well as angularly. Almost to the point of not being able to install the hazard button.

Hope I didn't mislead you too much on the wire fishing, it's possible I ran the fish wire from the top.

[chevynut]

This is the pic I took and sent to FR long ago, right after I bought the column. Not sure what to do about it and I should have had them fix it at the time but I thought I could address it. The switch only goes in one way.

9550

[chevynut]

So I've been going round and round with Flaming River tech support on this column issue. The first guy I contacted didn't reply to me for two weeks when I asked him if this is the way it's supposed to be. So I found another contact in tech support and sent him the pics. He said the column only goes together one way, and it's a "little off". Something isn't right.

Does anyone here have a 55-56 FR tilt column that they could post a pic of? I'd like to see if the holes line up better with the tilt lever and the hazard button. Mine just doesn't look right to me, and it can't be that this is the way they're supposed to be.

[Rick_L]

No need for me to post pics of mine, they look very similar to yours. Unless something changes my mind, I'm going to say those errors are built in to every one that uses those parts.

[chevynut]

Turns out that the column I have in the Hemi55 is also a tilt column, and the tilt lever installs in about the same position. So that tells me that they're all like that, and it's assembled correctly.

But the hazard switch is aligned a lot better. It looks a little off in this pic, but it's because it's at a slight angle. Maybe my hazard switch is misaligned on the turn signal switch assembly. In the pics I posted above it looks like it got damaged on assembly at FR.

Here's the Hemi55 column...

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[chevynut]

Here's my switch as it arrived....

9568

Maybe I just need to enlarge the screw holes in the turn signal switch a little and rotate the switch and call it good. :p

[chevynut]

Well the turn signal switch has big holes in it already, but the recess the screw head fits into is pretty snug around the screw head, preventing any rotation of the switch. I went to try to find screws with smaller heads, like socket heads, but couldn't find anything with the 12-24 threads they use. Why the hell would they use such a weird size screw? I could turn down the heads on the stock screws, but I wanted to try it with some other screws before I "screw" them up. ;)

[55 Rescue Dog]

Wow. Sure makes me want to try and figure out how to use an OE column, or something to hook up to a C4 rack? I still have a 81 Camaro column I've been trying to give away for years. I would just have to deal with the key switch on the side which is kind of handy.

[chevynut]

I fixed the hazard switch misalignment today :). I got some new 12-24 screws so I didn't mess up the stock ones in case my fix didn't work. I went to two hardware stores before I could find any and the one that had them only had a few of them. I got two 1" and one 1/2" length, same length as the stock column screws.

I noticed that the turn signal switch holes are pretty large, and they have a taper to capture the screw head. So it's hard to misalign it, but it prevents any adjustment too. With the switch in the standard position, this is what the top screw looks like. Notice the hole is elongated....I didn't do that so they must be made that way. It looks like it's for alignment but you can't do it because of the hole taper and some alignment features designed into the parts.

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It looks like you're supposed to be able to adjust the position of the switch, but you can't because the screw heads won't allow it to move. So I turned down the heads on my lathe from .420 to .375".

I installed the screws and still couldn't get any movement of the switch and I noticed a little "nub" cast into the column casting, and a small hole that it engages with on the switch The hole is a little oblong but way too small to allow any significant adjustment. It's the small oblong hole on the left in the pic below, next to the larger hole.

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I then drilled out the small hole to .177" (#17) to allow more adjustment. Then I adjusted the switch where I wanted it, and tightened the screws. You can see that the screw is off-center, but it was off-center the other direction before disassembly. The hazard switch is now centered and looks as lot better, and works good. Hope it stays there. :)

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I found out that the shroud just presses onto the column so I removed it by hand and clearanced the turn signal lever hole to avoid rubbing the cruise wires on it. This is how it was before clearancing and I thought the wires were being pinched.

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Now back to wiring. :)