Clocking the steering rack on a C4 conversion frame

[WagonCrazy]

219
I've been asked several times about how to get the engine to sit as low as possible in the C4 frame conversion, with the way the rack & pinion fluid lines stick "up". I learned how to do this via ChevyTalk forum, and am passing it on to folks who want to know here.

The stock rack has the fluid lines exiting straight "up" from the body of the rack. This gets in the way of mounting the engine as low in the cradle as possible. In my case, the front LS1 crank pully was going to hit those lines. To gain an extra approx 1 1/2 inch lower engine position, consider "clocking" your C4 steering rack.

To do that, you'll need to remove the rack from the crossmember.
Mount it carefully in vice. Then remove the 2 hard fluid lines. Then remove the 2 "pins" in the outer housing. These are short pins with a knurled thread that have been pounded in...rotating as they are inserted into the inner housing to hold the left and right housing tubes together. So you twist 'em out by tightly securing vicegrips around the head of the pin, then tapping the vicegrips counterclockwise with a hammer. They "unthread" right out.
220

Once both pins are removed, the spin the passenger side of the housing 90 degrees to make the fittings "point forward". Then carefully drill new holes in each of the 2 pin locations and then re-install the pins (vicegrips + hammer in a clockwise position). Once they get started they kind of make their own thread in the new hole you just drilled in the inner housing...so just hammering the top of the head will seat it.

To reinstall the rack back into the cradle, you'll need to notch the passenger side mount, to make room for the fluid fitting/line.
221

Then you'll need to make up new fluid lines because the old ones won't be long enough. I had some made out of stainless and used banjo fittings on the actual rack housing.
222

Bolt it all in and you can now set your engine lower into the cradle.

[56-210Sedan]

Great advice thanks for sharing:cool:

[chevynut]

Thanks for the pics, Paul. The pins are actually pretty easy to pull out. I know of at least one guy who was able to re-bend his stainless lines to work. But I like how you did it. Where did you find the correct tube ends for the rack fittings? Did you just have the tube flared?

Also, did you ever look into using high pressure hose there? I don't know where you would find the metric hose ends, though. Adapters, perhaps?

[Romax55]

Larger hydraulic shops have metric steer line fittings for that Corvette rack , and can bend new lines w/metric fittings as needed . Years ago , it was nigh onto impossible to find metric hydraulic fittings without going to Europe or the Far East , but North American hydraulics has come a long way toward standardization in the last 10-15 years. Be safe...Bob.

[brians55]

hi i am new to this site and i pulled out the two pins and can not get get the housing to rotate , is there something i am missing

[chevynut]

Hi guys. I am having the same problem as Brians55 had almost 4 years ago. I had a junk rack that I pulled the pins out of and it wasn't too hard to rotate the housing. But now I have a rebuilt C4 rack and can't get it to turn. I've tried a pipe wrench on it but I'm afraid I'll damage something.

Any advice Paul or anyone else? My rack seems to have a thicker-walled cylinder than others I've seen.

[WagonCrazy]

Hmmm...mine turned fairly freely. Put a cheater bar on the end of your pipewrench and see if you can get it to budge. Spray the inner oring area with lubricant. maybe it's gummed up a bit.
I just looked for a disassembled C4 rack diagram on Google search with no luck.

[chevynut]

Paul, I don't see an o-ring on the junk rack I took apart. The cylinder sleeve just slides onto the aluminum housing and is pinned there with the rivets. There's a seal inside the cylinder just inboard of the fitting, so there's no need for an o-ring there. I put a pretty big pipe wrench on it and I'm afraid to put much more torque on the cylinder, not to mention the marks the wrench makes. I'm actually wondering if they epoxied the cylinder in place when it was rebuilt. There were some small yellow o-rings under the heads of the rivets but I don't know why you'd need them since there's no fluid in that area. I've read about 2-3 others having this problem, but they never did update to say if they got it resolved.

[Custer55]

Did you try putting some heat on it? If there is some kind of sealer heat may help to loosen it up. I wouldn't use much though. Maybe just a propane torch.
Good Luck :?
Brian

[chevynut]

Did you try putting some heat on it? If there is some kind of sealer heat may help to loosen it up. I wouldn't use much though. Maybe just a propane torch. Good Luck :?
Brian

Yup, tried that. I got it about as hot as I thought the steering fluid would make it. Not sure what to do with it.

[chevynut]

Today I said screw it and figured this rack wasn't worth anything to me if I couldn't turn the cylinder. I have been afraid of breaking the aluminum housing and had the rack clamped in my vise at the mounting boss. I put what I thought was a lot of torque on it with a pipe wrench but couldn't get it to turn. I decided to clamp the aluminum housing right next to the cylinder and force it until it either rotated or broke. It finally rotated with a lot of force on the pipe wrench. ;) I almost had to get a cheater bar.

I almost decided to rotate it so the fittings faced out the BACK of the rack until I realized it wouldn't work because one fitting would hit the rack mount bracket k-member. So I rotated it forward almost 90 degrees.

Now I need to figure out the plumbing for the lines and notc.

[Custer55]

Just thinking you could contact Turnone steering or someone else that rebuilds the Corvette racks to see if they have any ideas.

On the steering rack subject I also have a question. Which fitting on the rack is for the pressure line from the pump and which is the return line?
Thanks, Brian

[chevynut]

http://cdn3.volusion.com/ekutc.vrlsy/v/vspfiles/photos/39729-2.jpg?1348745564

[SlyFry]

Just thinking you could contact Turnone steering or someone else that rebuilds the Corvette racks to see if they have any ideas.

I did contact Turn One and their response was $200 to reclock the housing after a $225 plus parts rebuild. They weren't interested in revealing how to do it yourself

[chevynut]

Welcome to the site SlyFry. I contacted Turn One via e-mail and they never replied. I didn't try to call them.

It's not too hard to clock the rack yourself, but sometimes the housing won't turn easily. I have done two myself. All you need is a pair of vise grips with a sharp end. Paul pretty clearly described how to do it at the beginning of this thread. Grab ahold of the "rivets" holding the cylinder housing to the aluminum casting with the vise grips. Turn counter-clockwise and pull. The "rivets" have a steep knurl or thread on them and they will come out if you get a good grip on them. Remove the stainless lines if you haven't already done so.

Next, put the aluminum housing in a vise close to the steel cylinder so you don't crack it, protecting it from the vise jaws. Get a pipe wrench and put it on the cylinder and rotate it forward. Put some tape or use a piece of aluminum to protect the cylinder. If it doesn't go easily, you may need some penetrating oil or just push harder. I had trouble with both of them I did until I really pushed hard, then they turned.

Once you have the cylinder rotated, get a drill bit of the appropriate size (I don't remember what I used). Make sure it's smaller than the OD of the rivet so it can cut new "threads". Put grease on the drill bit and being very careful to clean the chips off now and then, drill both holes. Then all you have to do is drive the "rivets" back in with a hammer.

I'm not sure how Paul (Wagoncrazy) was able to flare the stainless lines to fit, because I wasn't able to do that. I made new lines for mine.

6958

[Bluegrass Trifive]

Mine was very difficult to turn as well. Finally with a vise and a large pipe wrench I was able to turn it. The drilling and re-pin were no issue at all.

[56CAD]

New guy here.
Wagoncrazy and Chevynut thanks for the great info! This is exacly what I was looking for. Chevynut, that is a sweet setup!
Doug

[WagonCrazy]

Welcome 56CAD. I'm almost embarrased to say that my Nomad is still not yet on the road. But I'm gettin' there... Time and money, time and money...

Start a new thread build and post some pics of yours so we can be helpful.

[chevynut]

New guy here.
Wagoncrazy and Chevynut thanks for the great info! This is exacly what I was looking for. Chevynut, that is a sweet setup!
Doug

Welcome to the site 56CAD and thanks. I've made two sets of the rack lines now. Not too difficult to do, just takes a little time. I used part of the stock stainless lines, silver-soldered modified stainless fittings onto them, and just made up new teflon flex lines for the rest.

[56CAD]

Chevynut,
Where did you get your new power steering lines? That is exactly what I need to do to mine. I have the rack clocked 90 degrees forward, but, now I need new lines with fittings that work. Help!
Doug

[chevynut]

Chevynut,
Where did you get your new power steering lines?

Doug, I made them :). I wanted to make new hardlines but I couldn't find anyone locally who could do a decent flare on new tubing using the original nuts. Those nuts are metric and nothing I've been able to find works. The flare needs to be pretty big to fit correctly and my local Tubes-N-Hoses couldn't make them. So I used part of the original lines, put some modified AN fittings on them, and made up some braided stainless teflon lined hoses from there to the steering valve, where I used banjo fittings to connect to it. I think they turned out pretty good. :)

7862

7863

[56CAD]

Chevynut, those are awesome. You wouldn't have part numbers and where you sourced all your parts from do you? I can't find anyone out here in Central California that will touch them because of the special metric fittings. You'd think with as many that use those C4 racks being used in swaps, there would be lots of parts available. Your lines are incredible. You are a true craftsman! Thanks for the pictures too!
Doug

[chevynut]

You wouldn't have part numbers and where you sourced all your parts from do you?

I got everything from Summit, as I recall, and there's around $100+ in parts. I'm pretty sure the hose and hose ends are Russell or Aeroquip and other parts are Earl's. Here's the parts I used:

2 AN4 stainless couplings (machined to fit over stock stainless lines) EAR-SS981504ERL or equiv.
3 straight AN4 hose ends (to match hose chosen)
1 90 degree AN4 hose end (to match hose chosen)
2 12mm short straight banjo fittings 997645ERL or equiv.
2 12mm x 1.25 banjo bolts
AN4 braided stainless teflon hose

I turned the couplings down on my lathe to remove the threads on one end, and drilled them out to 1/4" deep enough to get the lines in them a ways (~1/2" or so). Then I silver-soldered them to the stock stainless lines. Then all you do is make up the teflon hoses and attach them.

I built a second set recently for a customer's car:

7866

[56CAD]

Chevynut, you are the man! Thanks for the info. I don't have access to a lathe, so, If I can't find someone here who does would you be interested in making up another set just like to ones you have?
Doug

[chevynut]

Chevynut, you are the man! Thanks for the info. I don't have access to a lathe, so, If I can't find someone here who does would you be interested in making up another set just like to ones you have?
Doug

I think I already have a couple but would have to check. Let me know if you need them.

[56CAD]

Thanks chevynut! I will check with my last machinist tomorrow afternoon to see if he'll try and tackle it. I also saw the high pressure and low pressure lines you made for yours. Those were awesome as well. I'll have to tackle those a little later. My big thing right now is getting the rack back in the truck with lines on it so I can position my motor 2" lower and a little farther back to build motor mounts. I'll let you know if I need them. Thanks again!
Doug

[56CAD]

Chevynut, can you check to see if you have another set of those lines made up and how much you want for them? This last machinist has been dragging his feet and I need to get my motor mounts tacked in. Thanks,
Doug

[chevynut]

Doug, send me an e-mail at Lnobi53@yahoo.com or call me at the number on my website. I'm not sure I see why the lines are holding up your motor mounts. Just clock the rack and tack the mounts in with the lines out of the way. The lines can be put on anytime.

[56CAD]

The machinist has my rack to make and fit the new lines. That's the hold up. I checked this morning and he hasn't even started on them.

[chevynut]

The machinist has my rack to make and fit the new lines. That's the hold up.

Gotcha! Curious what he's going to charge you for that. Was he just going to bend up new hardlines?

[56CAD]

Yes, that was his plan. He said he could produce the factory flaring on both ends but would need to re-use the fittings on my lines.

[chevynut]

I'm really skeptical about whether he can make the o-ring "flare" on the valve end. Nobody around here could do it, not even TubesNHoses. But who knows....GM or their supplier did it. ;)

7918

[NickP]

Laszlo, how similar is that in regards to the fuel line entry and exit lines for an LS regulator/filter? I know the end on the fuel line terminates into the bullet but am wondering if the tube OD is the same along with the raised portion that creates the flange for the o-ring. If it's the same could it be used?

[chevynut]

The rack lines are 1/4" and I doubt the LS fuel lines are that small. An o-ring goes on the ends of these two lines.

[NickP]

LS line is 3/8, thanks. I wonder if the Mastercool Push Connector adaptor & die for 1/4" is the same?

[NickP]

I used MasterCool's 1/4" push connector die and formed this in steel line. It's a bit ugly, I use an anti seize lubricant when doing all of these fittings. I don't have any 1/4" stainless yet. The created flange diameter is .35" What is the diameter on your line at this flange? Just trying to extract a solution for future needs. TIA

7925

[chevynut]

Nick, that looks like half of the problem. Notice how the flare on the stock tube in my picture actually necks down so you can put an o-ring on it. I don't think it will work with just the bubble. I came up with a solution to the problem and I think it works quite well so that's how I plan to do it if I do any more of these. It would be nice to be able to make the large flare on the other end. Thanks.

[WagonWonder]

Well, ok................................................ .......................................... :|

[55 Rescue Dog]

Another reason not to get too carried away on custom parts. I'm hoping for the off the shelf stock lines to work on mine, with a stock rack. I love going into the hood banger store and finding the exact part I need in stock.

[Custer55]

I used MasterCool's 1/4" push connector die and formed this in steel line. It's a bit ugly, I use an anti seize lubricant when doing all of these fittings. I don't have any 1/4" stainless yet. The created flange diameter is .35" What is the diameter on your line at this flange? Just trying to extract a solution for future needs. TIA

7925

You might be able to get it to work by trimming the excess and doing a 2nd operation as you do on a double flare line with a custom made die for the 2nd operation. On mine I cut the factory end off and put a double flare where I cut it off to connect the other end of the line I bent up with a double flare coupling. One the other end I used the factory fitting and made a double flare a bit bigger by moving the tube out of the die a bit after the 2nd flare operation and doing the 2nd operation again. It hasn't leaked on that end so far. Not the best looking line but it works. The way Cnut did his line will work well and looks nice too, so that is good way to do it also. Seems crazy that they didn't use standard fittings on those racks that would be easier to find though.

[NickP]

My whole intent with my exercise was to provide a possible solution to those without specialized tools; an alternative if you will. I was hoping to obtain some data with regards to completing the fitting by doing a second op and possibly a third. I found a used rack with hoses, ordered it up so I will have real time data from actual parts rather than request data.

As mentioned, Laszlo's method certainly works and by no means did I intend to suggest otherwise. I just know there are others out there that need an optional solution, that's all.

[Custer55]

It's always good to have options! Another thing I found when setting mine up is that the O-rings on the rack fitting are not a standard American size. All the ones anyone had at the parts stores were either to big or to small. I found some metric size O-rings online that fit much better. I think the website was called "the oring store" I don't remember the exact size it was though. I ordered a few each of several sizes since the shipping on them was more than all the O-rings I purchased.

[NickP]

It's always good to have options! Another thing I found when setting mine up is that the O-rings on the rack fitting are not a standard American size. All the ones anyone had at the parts stores were either to big or to small. I found some metric size O-rings online that fit much better. I think the website was called "the oring store" I don't remember the exact size it was though. I ordered a few each of several sizes since the shipping on them was more than all the O-rings I purchased.

Another source for O-rings both English/metric and material type to fit the requirement: https://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=1a3epzh Not having one yet, I can't vouch for an exact match to size or material.

[chevynut]

Nick, I could have sent you the unused end of my lines if you needed them for measurements. I actually have two sets of them. I thought about soldering AN adapters on both ends and just using a simple AN4 hose with straight ends between them. That would eliminate the banjos and 90 degree ends. May try that next time I do this.

[NickP]

no biggie.

[Bluegrass Trifive]

Nick, I could have sent you the unused end of my lines if you needed them for measurements. I actually have two sets of them. I thought about soldering AN adapters on both ends and just using a simple AN4 hose with straight ends between them. That would eliminate the banjos and 90 degree ends. May try that next time I do this. Just curious, why can't the tubing just be cut off and flared for a AN tube sleeve and nut? Does the tubing spit when you try to flare it or something?

[chevynut]

why can't the tubing just be cut off and flared for a AN tube sleeve and nut?

If you installed an AN to metric o-ring adapter into the PS valve end, you could do that....that is if you could find the correct adapter. It's a 12mm x 1.25 thread with an o-ring at the bottom. Or you could use sealing washers on the adapter if there was no o-ring. I used an AN4 banjo there and that would work with a hardline too. The other end is the bigger problem. It's a 12mm tube nut and a large flare that nobody in my area could make. There's no sleeve behind the flare at the rack cylinder end and the hole in the nut is pretty big. Maybe there is a way to make the flare that large but I couldn't find one and I wasn't comfortable with using it with the smaller flare.

That's why I used the stock flared ends and nuts at the cylinder and made AN4 hoses from there to the AN banjos on the valve.

[Bluegrass Trifive]

If you installed an AN to metric o-ring adapter into the PS valve end, you could do that....that is if you could find the correct adapter. It's a 12mm x 1.25 thread with an o-ring at the bottom. Or you could use sealing washers on the adapter if there was no o-ring. I used an AN4 banjo there and that would work with a hardline too. The other end is the bigger problem. It's a 12mm tube nut and a large flare that nobody in my area could make. There's no sleeve behind the flare at the rack cylinder end and the hole in the nut is pretty big. Maybe there is a way to make the flare that large but I couldn't find one and I wasn't comfortable with using it with the smaller flare.

That's why I used the stock flared ends and nuts at the cylinder and made AN4 hoses from there to the AN banjos on the valve. I think I remember you cutting the rack end fittings off leaving a short section of the tube attached and then soldering a AN fitting to the tube? Could you not just flare the tube for AN fittings instead of soldering and run a AN hose between them?

[chevynut]

I think I remember you cutting the rack end fittings off leaving a short section of the tube attached and then soldering a AN fitting to the tube? Could you not just flare the tube for AN fittings instead of soldering and run a AN hose between them?

Yes there are other ways you could do it. You could use an AN4 union and flare the end of the stock tube and use an AN4 nut. I used an AN4 union but I machined the union and silver soldered it onto the stock tube. You could also flare the other end of the stock tube after cutting and re-bending it and make the connection at the union. I chose the hose route because I think putting a union in a hardline would look strange and I wanted it to be "uncluttered" so I eliminated one nut.

What would be nice is to crimp the hose onto the end of the stock tube(s) so it looked like it came that way from the factory. ;) You could probably do that with a couple of of Nick's bubble flares and a crimp sleeve, if you had the tools or someone to do it for you.

Here's a re-post of how I did it on mine:

http://www.trifivechevys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7862&d=1507579159

[Bluegrass Trifive]

I haven’t decided for sure what I’m going to do yet. I’m either going use adapter fittings to AN hose or maybe just cut the tube and flare it. I’ll mock it up and see which I like the looks of the best and go from there. Your stuff is looking good for sure,you about ready to paint yet?

[chevynut]

,you about ready to paint yet?

I've completed another round of blocking and just shot another coat of PPG K36 primer today. Getting down to the nitty gritty now. Going to put it in the rotisserie soon so I can get the underside ready.

[Dragon]

What banjo fittings did you use and where did you get them?

[chevynut]

What banjo fittings did you use and where did you get them?

Did you really sign up here just to ask me that one question? ;) Welcome to the site.....you should do a proper intro and tell us a little about your project.

I got all the parts from Summit Racing. The banjos I used are simple parts....can't remember the size but I think they're 12mm or 7/16" and the bolts are metric. Both are the same size and I think they're Russell fittings. I could look up my past orders and see if I can find them if you can't find the right size. Hoses are An-4 teflon lined stainless braided high pressure hose. In order to make the hoses lay right I used a 90 on one hose end.

9479

[Dragon]

I did sign up to see about the changes to the steering rack yes! My C4 steering is on the front of a 1936 Dodge truck. I restore and work on almost everything. Been doing it since 1975. Lots of tri 5 Chevys over the years. I appreciate the info. The best tech always comes from those that have done it!

[pmezza]

Followed the ideas on this page and managed to use the original pipes, with the help of a pipe bender.

Does anything need resealing, or a rotation and new holes still maintain the integrity of the seal?10613

[csmeutah]

Thanks, great post I know this is an old thread but I'm clocking my C4. I have the tubes rotated, when I drill new holes do I need to pull the R&P tubes apart to clean out the drilled bits or not worry about it? Also, one of the screw/rivets didn't survive, shall I thread in a new bolt? I can't imagine anyone would sell those.

[WagonCrazy]

Here's what Laszlo says in an earlier post:
Once you have the cylinder rotated, get a drill bit of the appropriate size (I don't remember what I used). Make sure it's smaller than the OD of the rivet so it can cut new "threads". Put grease on the drill bit and being very careful to clean the chips off now and then, drill both holes. Then all you have to do is drive the "rivets" back in with a hammer.

When I drilled mine, I don't remember pulling them apart and cleaning out the shavings. I just remember using grease to catch as many as possible.

[WagonCrazy]

As to your question about replacing the knurled pin with a bolt, I suppose that would work if you make sure the bolt doesnt protrude any deeper inside than the pin would.

Here's a good technical writeup of rebuilding a C4 rack. Maybe this will shed some clues to your dissasembly questions?

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/rebuild-c4-corvette-rack-pinion-steering/