More interior work done

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  • chevynut
    Registered Member
    • Nov 2011
    • 11012

    #46
    Well I'm just about to lose it with my interior guy. We agreed on December 6 that he was going to do my interior, but he would not commit to a timeframe. He's building a shop at his house and is the general contractor, so he claims he doesn't have much time to work on my stuff. I told him I couldn't wait 2 years for it and I said in November that wanted it done in 6-8 months. He said it had to be on his time so I just asked him to do regular work on it a few hours a week, so there's measurable, visible progress. I asked him to take my steering wheel and finish it.

    A month later I got my steering wheel....probably 2 hours of work.

    Time went by and I did some work I needed to do on the car so I didn't push him.

    On March 23 (see post above) Larry came over and we installed the roof insulation. He told me he would work on sewing up the headliner so we could get it installed. He also took a pattern off of my dash, which I told him should be the same as any other 55 or 56. He argued that no two are the same....I disagree.

    Time went by and his old shop (he sold it and rents part of it for storage) got broken into about early April. He called me and told me about it, and told me he was working on the headliner and would have it done when I got back from Montana in early May.

    I returned to CO and after I caught up with things I contacted him on May 10 and told him I was back and ready for the headliner installation. He said he didn't have time to work on it while I was gone due to a bunch of issues with his new shop. I told him my schedule for the next 5 weeks and told him that I would be heading back to Montana around mid-June. He said he'd get the headliner installed before I left.

    It's now mid-June and I've heard nothing from him for over a month. Six months and a week have gone by since he came over to discuss the project with me. So far I have a steering wheel and roof insulation. Six goddam months later!

    I am just about fed up with this but here's the problem.... I contacted Auto Weave Interiors in Denver and they can't get to my car until January. I contacted Recovery Room Interiors in Nebraska and he is booked until next summer, about a year out. I talked to a guy in Indiana and he said he's 4 months out, but he's also 15 hours from me which I don't like. All of them are $80-85 per hour. If I fire Larry now, nothing will get done for months anyhow. Larry is probably getting close to finishing his new shop in a couple months, but I don't know exactly where he's at on it.

    Auto weave said they've done 2 Nomads and one took 230 hours and the other 400 hours. The first one was a modified stock like interior, and the second one was a full custom one like mine with bucket seats, full length console, and even leather covered interior moldings. I asked about calendar days for 400 hours and was told it should be about 12 weeks. Since I've done so much of the work already, I doubt it's anywhere near 400 hours left. 400 hours at their shop rate is $34K, which is about what Larry owes me per my calculations, not including the material I paid for. So I might actually make out better having someone else do it.

    And the question is how will he settle with me. I've paid for $8200 in materials and owe him a little for roof insulation, glue, and shipping of leather. He owes me many hours of labor for building his frames. I have documented time spent on his two frames, and cost of materials for them. He owes me a finished interior, no matter how many hours it takes. That was our agreement.

    If I let him work at his pace, will my interior be done before I can get the car into another shop? I don't know. Maybe when his shop is finished he will spend more time on it, but as we all know there's a lot to do after a shop is "finished". I'm not sure I want to burn bridges and settle at this point, but I don't want to wait another year for this project to be done either.

    The guy at Auto Weave figured out who I was talking about when I told him the problem I was having. Apparently they worked together at some shop years ago, and he said Larry has no concept of time. But he said he does very nice work. I've been trying to get Larry to do something on my car for about two years now. His daughter died of cancer over a year ago, so I backed off any didn't pressure him for months since I still had a lot of work to do myself. But now 90% of the work left is his.

    So what do I do?
    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


    Other vehicles:

    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
    1962 327/340HP Corvette
    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
    2001 Porsche Boxster S
    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

    Comment

    • BamaNomad
      Registered Member
      • Nov 2016
      • 3880

      #47
      You've essentially PAID him for future work, way before he ever did it... This shows one to NEVER DO THAT because the one who has already been paid doesn't have the goal of achieving payment (since he already has it)... Send him a bill for the frame work you've done and see if that gets him off 'zero'...?

      Comment

      • 55 Rescue Dog
        Registered Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 1426

        #48
        Unless you want to wait another 2-3 years to drive it, just put a couple seats in it and have fun with it for now. I'm on my 3rd season driving my car with no interior except for 2 seats and a little carpet. It's so much fun to drive I don't even care if I ever even put a headliner in it, and people love the car as it is. Since you have never actually driven one of your chassis designs, you might not even like how it drives, handles, shakes, and will need to blow the car apart to change it. I can't imagine why your interior guy doesn't jump all over getting your interior done being the nice guy that you are. Even if I had $30 grand to blow on the interior, that would ruin all the fun of driving it. I spent $2000 including the seats.
        IMG_0220.jpg IMG_1565.jpg
        Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 06-15-2023, 02:33 PM.

        Comment

        • Bitchin'57
          Registered Member
          • Aug 2015
          • 428

          #49
          Originally posted by chevynut
          Well I'm just about to lose it with my interior guy. We agreed on December 6 that he was going to do my interior, but he would not commit to a timeframe. He's building a shop at his house and is the general contractor, so he claims he doesn't have much time to work on my stuff. I told him I couldn't wait 2 years for it and I said in November that wanted it done in 6-8 months. He said it had to be on his time so I just asked him to do regular work on it a few hours a week, so there's measurable, visible progress. I asked him to take my steering wheel and finish it.

          A month later I got my steering wheel....probably 2 hours of work.

          Time went by and I did some work I needed to do on the car so I didn't push him.

          On March 23 (see post above) Larry came over and we installed the roof insulation. He told me he would work on sewing up the headliner so we could get it installed. He also took a pattern off of my dash, which I told him should be the same as any other 55 or 56. He argued that no two are the same....I disagree.

          Time went by and his old shop (he sold it and rents part of it for storage) got broken into about early April. He called me and told me about it, and told me he was working on the headliner and would have it done when I got back from Montana in early May.

          I returned to CO and after I caught up with things I contacted him on May 10 and told him I was back and ready for the headliner installation. He said he didn't have time to work on it while I was gone due to a bunch of issues with his new shop. I told him my schedule for the next 5 weeks and told him that I would be heading back to Montana around mid-June. He said he'd get the headliner installed before I left.

          It's now mid-June and I've heard nothing from him for over a month. Six months and a week have gone by since he came over to discuss the project with me. So far I have a steering wheel and roof insulation. Six goddam months later!

          I am just about fed up with this but here's the problem.... I contacted Auto Weave Interiors in Denver and they can't get to my car until January. I contacted Recovery Room Interiors in Nebraska and he is booked until next summer, about a year out. I talked to a guy in Indiana and he said he's 4 months out, but he's also 15 hours from me which I don't like. All of them are $80-85 per hour. If I fire Larry now, nothing will get done for months anyhow. Larry is probably getting close to finishing his new shop in a couple months, but I don't know exactly where he's at on it.

          Auto weave said they've done 2 Nomads and one took 230 hours and the other 400 hours. The first one was a modified stock like interior, and the second one was a full custom one like mine with bucket seats, full length console, and even leather covered interior moldings. I asked about calendar days for 400 hours and was told it should be about 12 weeks. Since I've done so much of the work already, I doubt it's anywhere near 400 hours left. 400 hours at their shop rate is $34K, which is about what Larry owes me per my calculations, not including the material I paid for. So I might actually make out better having someone else do it.

          And the question is how will he settle with me. I've paid for $8200 in materials and owe him a little for roof insulation, glue, and shipping of leather. He owes me many hours of labor for building his frames. I have documented time spent on his two frames, and cost of materials for them. He owes me a finished interior, no matter how many hours it takes. That was our agreement.

          If I let him work at his pace, will my interior be done before I can get the car into another shop? I don't know. Maybe when his shop is finished he will spend more time on it, but as we all know there's a lot to do after a shop is "finished". I'm not sure I want to burn bridges and settle at this point, but I don't want to wait another year for this project to be done either.

          The guy at Auto Weave figured out who I was talking about when I told him the problem I was having. Apparently they worked together at some shop years ago, and he said Larry has no concept of time. But he said he does very nice work. I've been trying to get Larry to do something on my car for about two years now. His daughter died of cancer over a year ago, so I backed off any didn't pressure him for months since I still had a lot of work to do myself. But now 90% of the work left is his.

          So what do I do?
          One option is to hire a lawyer that specializes in contract law, and have him send a demand letter to your interior guy. The letter basically says do the work as promised, or risk getting sued. I came close to doing that with my interior guy recently. My lawyer said that it works most of the time because receiving a letter like that "puts the fear of God in them". The draft letter he sent me to review and approve cited various related case law, it was fairly detailed. He was going to charge me a flat fee of $2,500 for the demand letter and have it delivered by a county sheriff deputy. Fortuantely for me, my interior guy completed the job just before I pulled the trigger.

          Another option is to just walk away, and chalk it up as one of life's bumps in the road. Walk away from the frustration and uncertainty, and find another interior shop. If you are seeking one of the best interior shops in the country, look into Interiors By Shannon in Alabama. They did my friend's interior in his '57 Bel Air. Absolutely gorgeous work. That car later sold at Mecum for 235k.
          Last edited by Bitchin'57; 06-15-2023, 06:54 PM.
          Dave, from the old neighborhood in Jersey!

          Comment

          • chevynut
            Registered Member
            • Nov 2011
            • 11012

            #50
            Originally posted by Bitchin'57
            One option is to hire a lawyer that specializes in contract law, and have him send a demand letter to your interior guy. The letter basically says do the work as promised, or risk getting sued.
            I'm not at that point yet. But if I get there I will hire a lawyer if needed.

            Another option is to just walk away, and chalk it up as one of life's bumps in the road. Walk away from the frustration and uncertainty, and find another interior shop.
            I'm not walking away from $35K in labor and $9K in materials. I'll sue first if needed.


            I talked to my painter and he told me I called the wrong Auto Weave....apparently there's two of them in Denver. He said the guy I talked to is just as bad as my interior guy as far as timeliness. He recommended another guy who he said will do what he says they'll do. These guys do more "street rod" type interiors than custom classic cars like mine. The guy I would really want to do mine is Tracy Weaver at The Recovery Room in Nebraska. He does some incredible work and is a lot closer than Shannon. I have corresponded with Shannon in the past.

            I sent Larry a text before I left and expressed my disappointment that he's crapped on me twice since I got back from Montana in early May. He is neck deep in his shop and he asked if anyone could let him into my shop while I'm gone to get the headliner installed. I'm hesitant to do that, not because I don't trust him there, but because I need to show him how my tweeters need to be installed and how I want the area around the seat belt anchor done. I may have to machine a custom spacer for the seatbelt to provide clearance for the anchor to the headliner. Maybe it's not a big issue, but I really don't have a problem with waiting til I get back to CO. I am going to tell him I need a DATE for him to come do it, not "after you get back". I'm going to see if he'll start documenting

            My biggest concern is what happens after the headliner. There's a lot of work left after that. He needs to get the dash cover installed, then either the side panels or the seats need done. I need the rear seat cushions done so I can build the rest of the console. It's really work he should be doing but I kinda want to do it so it's done how I want it. Plus I like doing that stuff.
            56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


            Other vehicles:

            56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
            56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
            57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
            1962 327/340HP Corvette
            1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
            2001 Porsche Boxster S
            2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
            2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

            Comment

            • chevynut
              Registered Member
              • Nov 2011
              • 11012

              #51
              Originally posted by 55 Rescue Dog
              Unless you want to wait another 2-3 years to drive it, just put a couple seats in it and have fun with it for now. I'm on my 3rd season driving my car with no interior except for 2 seats and a little carpet. It's so much fun to drive I don't even care if I ever even put a headliner in it, and people love the car as it is. Since you have never actually driven one of your chassis designs, you might not even like how it drives, handles, shakes, and will need to blow the car apart to change it. I can't imagine why your interior guy doesn't jump all over getting your interior done being the nice guy that you are. Even if I had $30 grand to blow on the interior, that would ruin all the fun of driving it. I spent $2000 including the seats.
              Are you really that oblivious to how much of an ass you really are? I don't give a rat's ass about your car. And my C4 suspension is no different than any other C4 conversion except for the narrowed rearend that you claim won't work right because it's "not the way GM designed it". My car is on an entirely different level from yours which you don't understand and never will. Please, just stop your inane comments on my threads. I'm really sick of your shit.
              56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


              Other vehicles:

              56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
              56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
              57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
              1962 327/340HP Corvette
              1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
              2001 Porsche Boxster S
              2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
              2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

              Comment

              • chevynut
                Registered Member
                • Nov 2011
                • 11012

                #52
                Well I've been composing an e-mail for the past week I've been in Montana and sent it to Larry today. I told him that I needed to see more consistent progress and need to have him give me a rough schedule in writing with an estimated date for completion. I also said I needed written receipts or at least a documented acknowledgement from him on what I've paid for the materials he owes me. I don't want to piss him off, but I want him to get off his ass. He sent me a picture of his shop, and he's nowhere near finished on it. I told him it looks like he's got 6 more months work on it to get it "done" enough to work in it.

                I told him I've been contacting other shops and it looks like I can get in 4-8 months from now, but that it would be finished about 12 weeks after that. So I asked him to either commit via a written agreement to having the interior DONE by around January, or if he prefers I will send him a settlement offer for what he owes me. I told him I prefer to work with him on it but I can't have one thing done every 2-3 months with months of delays. I can only do so much of it myself, and I really shouldn't have to do anything.

                He doesn't like to be pushed, so I'm pretty sure he's going to take the settlement route that he already proposed to me as an alternative in December. The question is whether he agrees with my numbers. Shops are now charging $85 an hour for interior work, and chassis shops 100+. I hope he doesn't think he just owes me my $75 per hour that was my shop rate 9 years ago. Then there's the issue of taxes. If he pays me, I have to pay taxes on the money I get. He got his frames and didn't pay a penny in taxes. So I think he should have to pay at least 15-20%.

                I told him I did want him to at least finish the headliner installation and the dash, so I can get the windshield in and assemble the rest of the car. I could even drive it like that. At this point he needs to shit or get off the pot. Everyone I talked to said he does great work, but everyone who knows him says he has no concept of time.

                tic, tic, tic.....
                56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                Other vehicles:

                56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                1962 327/340HP Corvette
                1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                2001 Porsche Boxster S
                2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                Comment

                • 55 Rescue Dog
                  Registered Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 1426

                  #53
                  Why not just have him return the 2 frames, materials, sell the frames and start over?
                  Last edited by 55 Rescue Dog; 06-23-2023, 05:33 AM.

                  Comment

                  • chevynut
                    Registered Member
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 11012

                    #54
                    About a week or so Larry and I had a discussion about my interior. He's really struggling to get his shop done, and he's been working on it for over a year. It's a huge project and I really don't know why he needs multiple engineers involved in it and so many inspections. A couple of weeks ago he finally got the metal frame inspection on it. They had to inspect the welding like it was a commercial building but it's at his house so I don't know what he's building. He expected to be done by June, two months ago. Weather has also been an issue both in the past winter and this unusually wet summer. He said that when he gets it closed in he can spend more time on my interior. I asked if that was 2-3 months out and he said "no, probably October -November". I reminded him it was mid-August .

                    He said he couldn't commit to a finish date and said that I wouldn't agree to a deadline if he told me he needed a frame built by the end of September. I replied and told him I wasn't giving him a deadline, I wanted HIM to tell ME when he would have it finished. He still wouldn't commit so I told him I had to have it done by summer 2024. He said he didn't see that as a problem. That's the closest thing to a commitment that I've ever gotten. I can't get into another shop until after the first of the year or into the spring, so this still works for me if he does it. And it allows me to work with him and continue to build some of it that I want to do, and learn as I go.

                    Anyway, it turns out that he didn't want into my shop to install my headliner when I last left for Montana in June. He didn't even have it made yet. He was looking for information as to how many panels it had. He said he usually uses the original headliner as a pattern. It turns out I had a new headliner made in the late 70's and I gave that to him with the caveat that I didn't know if it was made correctly, but I had installed it and it seemed to fit. I also measured between the bow screw holes and gave him the spacing which is 12 1/2". I told him my schedule and he said we would have it installed before I left for Montana. He called when I was passing through Helena and wanted to come over to install it. So we agreed that we'd do it when I got back to Colorado.

                    I'm still not fully convinced that I'm going to get the interior done by summer, but I told him that the other shops said 10-12 weeks for a complete interior so that's about what I expected from him. I need to remind him that "by next summer" means when summer starts, not when it ends. I'll see how it goes in a couple of months, and still may have to find another shop. We'll see.
                    56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                    Other vehicles:

                    56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                    56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                    57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                    1962 327/340HP Corvette
                    1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                    2001 Porsche Boxster S
                    2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                    2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                    Comment

                    • WagonCrazy
                      Registered Member
                      • Mar 2012
                      • 1869

                      #55
                      I used to read about the horror stories of guys getting their cars stuck in "paint jail" but this one is leaning that same way.
                      Don't you think you should be driving it soon anyway (without the full interior) to work the kinks out? Why wait for the full interior? Keep up with your forward momentum and the interior will be the final piece of the puzzle.
                      1957 Nomad- LS1/T56 on C4 chassis
                      1959 Fleetside Apache 1/2 ton, shortbed, big window, 327ci.

                      Comment

                      • chevynut
                        Registered Member
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 11012

                        #56
                        Originally posted by WagonCrazy
                        Don't you think you should be driving it soon anyway (without the full interior) to work the kinks out?
                        Yes Paul, I told Larry I wanted the headliner and dash in so I could install the windshield and drive it a little. Hopefully that gets done pretty soon. I also asked him to sew me up some small pieces of charcoal leather with French seams with matching and contrasting thread so I can see them together and decide which way to go.

                        Problem is I'm going elk hunting with my son in Colorado for 2 weeks starting September 9, and I have to do some work (balljoints) on my 03 Duramax to take it. I many pay a friend to do it if he's interested, but not paying $150-200 an hour in a shop. Then we're going back to Montana to hunt deer and elk there and probably work on the house some more. The gate powdercoating is supposed to be finished by then too so I can install it if the rock work gets done. I likely won't get back to Colorado until early October. Hopefully the weather holds out and I can make it driveable by then.
                        56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                        Other vehicles:

                        56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                        56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                        57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                        1962 327/340HP Corvette
                        1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                        2001 Porsche Boxster S
                        2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                        2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                        Comment

                        • BamaNomad
                          Registered Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 3880

                          #57
                          Good luck Laszlo!

                          Comment

                          • chevynut
                            Registered Member
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 11012

                            #58
                            I contacted Larry last week the day after I returned from Montana as he requested. He told me he had the headliner made and that he could come install it Tuesday (yesterday). He came over late morning and we laid out the headliner on a table to install the bows. The material is awesome and it's a tan wool English broadcloth...Larry says it's the best you can buy.

                            I gave him my old headliner to use as a pattern but he said he found a pattern he made in the past for another Nomad project. For some reason, he sewed the cardboard strips on TOP of the headliner and he pushed them and the fabric into the bows, which took about an hour. I told him that wasn't the way I did it when I installed the old headliner, and that I just slipped the bows over the cardboard which was sewn on the BOTTOM of the headliner. But I told him I wasn't sure I did that correctly decades ago and that he was the expert on it.

                            IMG_6051.jpeg

                            Once he got the bows installed we got in the car and started screwing the bows in from the front of the car to the rear. I thought it looked great, back to the 4th bow, but as we got to the rear of the car I noticed the spacing between the bows wasn't right and the bows started leaning forward and we were running out of fabric. I suspected what was wrong but I bit my tongue and hoped he would realize it soon. All the bows were leaning forward and the rear one wouldn't even line up with the holes in the car. Something was badly wrong.

                            Larry said we'd have to drill new screw holes and I told him I was concerned about doing that since the holes were all in the stock locations and measured 12 1/2" apart both sides, but the bows measured 11 3/4" apart. There was also a bad "puckering" of the material above the windows. Finally he realized what I already concluded, that putting the cardboard on TOP of the headliner consumed a lot more material as it was pushed into the bows and it wasn't right. So we took it all down and he's either going to modify it by putting new cardboard strips on the bottom or make a whole new headliner after he orders more (expensive) material. Pushing the cloth into the headliner created a crease in it that may not come out and he may have to start over.

                            It was a total waste of about 5-6 hours of work, time I needed for other things this week, and I'm not sure when we're going to try again since I'm leaving Saturday morning for a two week elk hunt with my son, and when I return we're going to Montana to hunt and work on the house. I may not be back until around mid October which is another 5-6 week delay. I hope this isn't an indication of how things are going to go.
                            56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                            Other vehicles:

                            56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                            56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                            57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                            1962 327/340HP Corvette
                            1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                            2001 Porsche Boxster S
                            2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                            2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                            Comment

                            • chevynut
                              Registered Member
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 11012

                              #59
                              I asked Larry to make me a couple of small samples of the charcoal leather with french seams using color matching thread and contrasting thread so I can make a decision which way to go. Here they are. I'm not sure the brown thread is the exact color he plans to use on the tan leather, but it's probably close.

                              It's pretty clear that the contrasting thread makes errors more visible but these were just samples and I'm sure he can make straighter seams. I hope.

                              IMG_6056.jpeg
                              Last edited by chevynut; 09-06-2023, 09:55 AM.
                              56 Nomad, Ramjet 502, Viper 6-speed T56, C4 Corvette front and rear suspension


                              Other vehicles:

                              56 Chevy 2-door BelAir sedan
                              56 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                              57 Chevy 210 4-door sedan
                              1962 327/340HP Corvette
                              1961 Willys CJ3B Jeep
                              2001 Porsche Boxster S
                              2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
                              2019 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax

                              Comment

                              • tightline5
                                Registered Member
                                • Mar 2020
                                • 9

                                #60
                                Sounds like this guy is going to take you for a ride. It's obvious that he was in a hurry to pump something out to get you off his back and that's exactly what you got. I would say if he doesn't show up in Oct. with a very nice headliner to install you should have his bill ready and call another shop to get you in in the spring.

                                Lazlo time to take the gloves off with this guy.

                                Wishing you the best on this harrow show.

                                Mine will be home from paint next Saturday, The guy did a excellent job. Went over the entire car with a sun light, and I was a high speed printer for 30 years so all I ever see are the flaws. Custom color we made up so no one else has it.

                                Comment

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