I wanted to tell you all about my experience dealing with a salesman (Larry) at Jim Meyer Racing and with Jim Meyer himself. I will never do business with a company that employs people like this and allows this to happen, even condoning and encouraging the behavior. You won?t believe how Jim Meyer dealt with this, which is at the end. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to explain everything as it happened. Never again will I deal with this company or recommend them to anyone.
As you may know, I am building a chassis for a 55 gasser project. My customer decided to go with ladder bars in the rear with a Dana 60 rear axle. After looking at kits from Earle Williams, Jim Meyer Racing Products (JMRP), and others he asked me my opinion on the Jim Meyers ladder bar kit. I went to their website and looked at the pictures they posted of it and I told him I though the price was fairly reasonable and that the design looked okay to me. So he decided to order it. Here's the picture they have on their website when you go to the menu on the left and select the ladder bar kit:
The customer ordered this kit on November 4th and he was told 2 weeks for delivery. I was already working on his frame and needed the kit to do anything in the rear. On November 11th he was told it would ship in 10 days. On December 4th or 5th the customer informed me that the sales guy (Larry) at JMRP said the order was shipped that day. Since I was going to be out of town the following week and wanted to get someone to take the parts into the shop, I asked my customer for a tracking number so I knew when it was going to arrive.
I finally got the tracking number on 12/9 and the forwarded e-mail from JMRP said the kit was shipped on 12/9, not the week before as he was told. He was flat lied to about the shipping date. The package arrived on 12/12, the day before I returned, and 5 ? weeks from when it was ordered. So much for the ?2-week delivery? but this was only the beginning of this debacle.
I quickly opened up the packages because I was really interested to see the parts, and how everything went together. We were told that the kit included the ladder bars, front crossmember, front and rear mounting plates, upper and lower shock mounts, the diagonal link and brackets, and all hardware. There were two boxes each about 4 feet long and about 8?x8?. One box had only the diagonal link in it. The other box had both ladder bars, rod ends, front and rear brackets, lower shock mounts, and some plates with u-brackets welded to them. There were bolts and nuts included along with all the rod ends. There were absolutely no instructions or dimensions for mounting the ladder bars. I looked at the packing list and it showed a ?freight charge? of $160. I could have shipped the same two boxes for around $50. He also ordered an engine mount crossmember and the whole package was around $1675.
There was no front crossmember, no shock crossmember, and the ladder bars didn't look anything like the picture on the website. Here's exactly what we got in the "kit":
20141214_067.jpg
I contacted the customer and informed him that we were missing the front crossmember, the shock crossmember, and the lower shock mount spacers and bolts.
The customer then contacted JMRP and informed them via e-mail of the missing parts and asked that they be shipped immediately and copied me on the correspondence. This was on Sunday, 12/14.
To clarify the customer?s request I immediately sent an e-mail message in reply to JMRP and the customer with the above picture showing all the parts received. I informed them about the issue I found with the bolts at the front brackets being too short, and asked for the intended installation width or spacing of the ladder bars since no assembly instructions were included. I said I could probably figure out the spacing but they must have a design because the diagonal link had to be built at some defined spacing. I also pointed out that the ladder bars had no diagonal bracing as shown on their website, and the front mounting plates only had three holes in them, not four as shown in their pictures. I also noted that they show the forward diagonal link bracket attached to the ladder bar bracket with one long bolt through the entire assembly. The included bolts barely come even with the end of a thin nut, and they included an extra bolt but it was SHORTER than the one through the front of the ladder bar. I said that I felt they should show a picture of exactly what?s in the kit so the customer knows what he?s ordering. This was the first e-mail I sent to JMRP. Here?s a picture of one of the front bracket bolts tightened down. This is unsafe, imo.
20141217_001.jpg 20141217_003.jpg
The customer then copied me on an e-mail where he asked JMRP to send a return tag but gave no further information. In it was also a response from JMRP to the customer telling him that the upper shock mounts were what they used on their Tri5 frames, and their shock crossmember required trunk floor modification. He also said he would send the front crossmember and the shock mount spacers and bolts out right away?that was 12/15 in the AM.
I replied copying JMRP and asked my customer what part we were returning, so I could get it packed up. I also mentioned that we needed a longer bolt for the diagonal link bracket, and again asked for designed installation width for the ladder bars.
My customer sent me an e-mail explaining that we were sending the ladder bars back for additional bracing. He was told that the ladder bars had been ?re-designed? using 4130 cr-mo so they didn?t need the diagonal bracing. He told them that he wanted them the way they were shown on their website, with the bracing installed and said that?s why he bought them. The bracing gives the ?nostalgic? look he wants. So they told him to have me pack them up and they would send a return tag as soon as I told them the package weight. I don?t see how they could make them look like the ones pictured, however.
The JMRP salesman finally sent me an e-mail saying the ladder bars were designed for a 28? width. He said the shock crossmember required trunk floor modification because it interfered with the floor and sent a hand-drawn diagram that was pretty useless. He told me that the upper shock mount plates were what they used on their tri5 frames, not a shock crossmember, despite what was shown on their website. He also asked me how long of a bolt I needed for the diagonal brace bracket. I responded and thanked him for the width measurement, but at this point I am beginning to get frustrated with the BS and I asked him why I had to specify the bolt length for a kit they designed. I told him I felt it needed to be 3? long to work correctly in my opinion. I also told him I was going to install a crossmember in any case, because I felt the frame needed one when using coilovers. This is a pic from their website of the installation:
I then immediately re-packed the bare ladder bars and taped up the package. I sent an e-mail to the customer and JMRP and informing them that the box weight was 24 pounds. The customer was told that they would turn the ladder bars around on the same day they received them.
The next afternoon (12/16) I got an e-mail from JMRP asking what length bolts I got. I replied they were 2 3/16? and that the stack-up plus the nut height was 2 3/16?. I told them that being an A&P mechanic I was always taught that a minimum of 3 threads should protrude from the nut, and I felt they were too short. I also said there was no way the bolt would work if I put the diagonal brace bracket on with it as shown on their website. I asked if there was an alternate assembly they intended with the short bolt in the kit. We went back and forth a little and I answered all of his questions as quickly and clearly as possible.
Near the end of the working day I still had not received a return tag so I sent an e-mail asking for someone to please get it to me. I told them I needed to get this project moving and wanted to get the parts back to them for modification. I have the frame tying up my jig so I need to get this project moving because I have another C4 conversion to work on.
I also told them that I had tried the rear ladder bar brackets on the axle housing, and they didn?t fit. The brackets were made for a 3? diameter housing, and the actual housing diameter is 3 1/8?. I said that I could make them fit by grinding them, but didn?t think I should have to do this for a kit designed for this application. This is where the crap that blew me away started.....
As you may know, I am building a chassis for a 55 gasser project. My customer decided to go with ladder bars in the rear with a Dana 60 rear axle. After looking at kits from Earle Williams, Jim Meyer Racing Products (JMRP), and others he asked me my opinion on the Jim Meyers ladder bar kit. I went to their website and looked at the pictures they posted of it and I told him I though the price was fairly reasonable and that the design looked okay to me. So he decided to order it. Here's the picture they have on their website when you go to the menu on the left and select the ladder bar kit:
The customer ordered this kit on November 4th and he was told 2 weeks for delivery. I was already working on his frame and needed the kit to do anything in the rear. On November 11th he was told it would ship in 10 days. On December 4th or 5th the customer informed me that the sales guy (Larry) at JMRP said the order was shipped that day. Since I was going to be out of town the following week and wanted to get someone to take the parts into the shop, I asked my customer for a tracking number so I knew when it was going to arrive.
I finally got the tracking number on 12/9 and the forwarded e-mail from JMRP said the kit was shipped on 12/9, not the week before as he was told. He was flat lied to about the shipping date. The package arrived on 12/12, the day before I returned, and 5 ? weeks from when it was ordered. So much for the ?2-week delivery? but this was only the beginning of this debacle.
I quickly opened up the packages because I was really interested to see the parts, and how everything went together. We were told that the kit included the ladder bars, front crossmember, front and rear mounting plates, upper and lower shock mounts, the diagonal link and brackets, and all hardware. There were two boxes each about 4 feet long and about 8?x8?. One box had only the diagonal link in it. The other box had both ladder bars, rod ends, front and rear brackets, lower shock mounts, and some plates with u-brackets welded to them. There were bolts and nuts included along with all the rod ends. There were absolutely no instructions or dimensions for mounting the ladder bars. I looked at the packing list and it showed a ?freight charge? of $160. I could have shipped the same two boxes for around $50. He also ordered an engine mount crossmember and the whole package was around $1675.
There was no front crossmember, no shock crossmember, and the ladder bars didn't look anything like the picture on the website. Here's exactly what we got in the "kit":
20141214_067.jpg
I contacted the customer and informed him that we were missing the front crossmember, the shock crossmember, and the lower shock mount spacers and bolts.
The customer then contacted JMRP and informed them via e-mail of the missing parts and asked that they be shipped immediately and copied me on the correspondence. This was on Sunday, 12/14.
To clarify the customer?s request I immediately sent an e-mail message in reply to JMRP and the customer with the above picture showing all the parts received. I informed them about the issue I found with the bolts at the front brackets being too short, and asked for the intended installation width or spacing of the ladder bars since no assembly instructions were included. I said I could probably figure out the spacing but they must have a design because the diagonal link had to be built at some defined spacing. I also pointed out that the ladder bars had no diagonal bracing as shown on their website, and the front mounting plates only had three holes in them, not four as shown in their pictures. I also noted that they show the forward diagonal link bracket attached to the ladder bar bracket with one long bolt through the entire assembly. The included bolts barely come even with the end of a thin nut, and they included an extra bolt but it was SHORTER than the one through the front of the ladder bar. I said that I felt they should show a picture of exactly what?s in the kit so the customer knows what he?s ordering. This was the first e-mail I sent to JMRP. Here?s a picture of one of the front bracket bolts tightened down. This is unsafe, imo.
20141217_001.jpg 20141217_003.jpg
The customer then copied me on an e-mail where he asked JMRP to send a return tag but gave no further information. In it was also a response from JMRP to the customer telling him that the upper shock mounts were what they used on their Tri5 frames, and their shock crossmember required trunk floor modification. He also said he would send the front crossmember and the shock mount spacers and bolts out right away?that was 12/15 in the AM.
I replied copying JMRP and asked my customer what part we were returning, so I could get it packed up. I also mentioned that we needed a longer bolt for the diagonal link bracket, and again asked for designed installation width for the ladder bars.
My customer sent me an e-mail explaining that we were sending the ladder bars back for additional bracing. He was told that the ladder bars had been ?re-designed? using 4130 cr-mo so they didn?t need the diagonal bracing. He told them that he wanted them the way they were shown on their website, with the bracing installed and said that?s why he bought them. The bracing gives the ?nostalgic? look he wants. So they told him to have me pack them up and they would send a return tag as soon as I told them the package weight. I don?t see how they could make them look like the ones pictured, however.
The JMRP salesman finally sent me an e-mail saying the ladder bars were designed for a 28? width. He said the shock crossmember required trunk floor modification because it interfered with the floor and sent a hand-drawn diagram that was pretty useless. He told me that the upper shock mount plates were what they used on their tri5 frames, not a shock crossmember, despite what was shown on their website. He also asked me how long of a bolt I needed for the diagonal brace bracket. I responded and thanked him for the width measurement, but at this point I am beginning to get frustrated with the BS and I asked him why I had to specify the bolt length for a kit they designed. I told him I felt it needed to be 3? long to work correctly in my opinion. I also told him I was going to install a crossmember in any case, because I felt the frame needed one when using coilovers. This is a pic from their website of the installation:
I then immediately re-packed the bare ladder bars and taped up the package. I sent an e-mail to the customer and JMRP and informing them that the box weight was 24 pounds. The customer was told that they would turn the ladder bars around on the same day they received them.
The next afternoon (12/16) I got an e-mail from JMRP asking what length bolts I got. I replied they were 2 3/16? and that the stack-up plus the nut height was 2 3/16?. I told them that being an A&P mechanic I was always taught that a minimum of 3 threads should protrude from the nut, and I felt they were too short. I also said there was no way the bolt would work if I put the diagonal brace bracket on with it as shown on their website. I asked if there was an alternate assembly they intended with the short bolt in the kit. We went back and forth a little and I answered all of his questions as quickly and clearly as possible.
Near the end of the working day I still had not received a return tag so I sent an e-mail asking for someone to please get it to me. I told them I needed to get this project moving and wanted to get the parts back to them for modification. I have the frame tying up my jig so I need to get this project moving because I have another C4 conversion to work on.
I also told them that I had tried the rear ladder bar brackets on the axle housing, and they didn?t fit. The brackets were made for a 3? diameter housing, and the actual housing diameter is 3 1/8?. I said that I could make them fit by grinding them, but didn?t think I should have to do this for a kit designed for this application. This is where the crap that blew me away started.....
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