Cecil the lion

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I have to laugh at the morons on the other site who say that nobody should shoot anything they don't eat. And how "trophy hunting" is so horrible and should be stopped.

The fact is someone is probably eating Cecil. His carcass was probably given to the locals to consume. It's very difficult, if not illegal, to bring meat into the US from another country. So when a hunter goes overseas to hunt, the outfitter often serves game that others have shot as meals to the next clients. The meat that the outfitter can't use is given to the locals to eat.

I consider myself a "trophy hunter" <GASP!> I shoot and kill things I don't eat <another GASP!>!

When I go elk, deer, bear, caribou, antelope, sheep, goat, or whatever hunting, I try to get the largest animal I can in terms of horns, antlers, skull, etc. I hunt partially for the "trophy" and the meat is a bonus. I hunt with a bow and arrow almost exclusively. When I shoot any of the above, I eat the meat. I also give some away to friends and relatives when I have too much, which isn't very often. In fact, it's a LAW in most states that all edible portions of a game animal must be recovered. I shoot prairie dogs (not a game animal) and I don't eat them....but something does. I shoot coyotes (considered a varmint, not a gam eanimal) and I don't eat them...but something does. NOTHING goes to waste in nature, it ALL gets eaten by something. Even if they left Cecil's carcass, it will feed birds, hyenas, and other carnivores. NOTHING Is "wasted".

Maybe that Canadian idiot should be forced to eat every skunk he runs over with his car, or every mouse he traps in his house. LOL! HE KILLED THEM!

So am I some kind of "villain" just because I search out the largest racked animal I can get? What difference does it make whether I shoot the first one I see or let him walk so I can find a bigger one and perhaps end up going home empty-handed? I have passed on many animals in the field and gone home empty many times. Is that bad? I have been to NM and MT on "trophy" elk hunts several times, and still have not filled. I paid my tag fees of $750-1000 per hunt (several thousands by now) to support the game management departments, and I harvested nothing in either state so far. I am going to NM again in September for another try.

It took me 18 years to draw a sheep license in Colorado. I've been applying for 13 years in Montana, and 10 years in Utah. I've applied for moose in CO for 17 years now and 10 years in MT, several years in UT, and have never drawn a tag. Every application costs me money even if I don't draw. When you wait this long to be able to hunt, you really want to get a big one to mount. What's the point of hunting sheep if you don't mount the head or the whole animal? These hunts, by definition, are "trophy" hunts. Whose business is it how I decide to spend my money?

And what's wrong with hanging trophies on your wall? I have a dozen of them, including a life-sized mountain goat. It's a tribute to the animal imo. Some people walk into my house and love all the mounts...others not so much. That's their problem, not mine. I like them...they remind me of my hunting adventures.

The moron canadian libtard over there says he doesn't understand why people hunt when they don't need to, thinks trophy hunting is wrong, believes that the $50K this hunter spent to shoot a lion could have been used for better purposes, and that you should eat everything you shoot. Well, those are his opinions....let's look at this:

There are lots of people who don't understand why we have old, unsafe, polluting cars that we spend an absurd $50-100K+ building. Should a person be allowed to "waste" money like that? And why does anyone "need" any more than 100 horsepower in a car? 100 horsepower is enough to get you from point A to point B. Most of these cars do not conform to current safety requirements, they have no air bags, often no seatbelts, no collapsible steering columns, nothing. Why should people be allowed to drive them? Most of these cars get under 15 mpg and don't have any pollution controls such as cats, air pumps, EGRs, etc. Why should they be allowed to waste gas like that? They pollute more than new cars so why are people allowed to drive them? Why does anyone need a "trophy" garage with multiples of these old cars in it? Why should people be allowed to put non-stock "pretty" wheels on their cars and waste money on them? Noise pollution is a big problem with some of these old cars with loud mufflers. They should be illegal, right?

The point of all of this is that everyone has their own interests. Just because you don't like to do what someone else does, doesn't mean you should condemn them and try to stop what they're doing as long as it's legal. After all, your hobby could be NEXT.

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Smooth, I have looked at African hunts often and plan to go some day when I can find a hunting partner willing to go. They do have hunt "packages" for reasonable prices. $4000-5000 for 5 animals in the package. I have also seen daily rated with trophy fees.

It really bothers me that they keep calling this lion hunter a "poacher". They've already convicted him before all the facts are out. IMO he's not a poacher no matter what happens, unless he somehow KNEW there was no lion quota for the area he hunted in. I really don't believe they "targeted" Cecil, because that would have been stupid given his celebrity. And they talk about "luring" him out with bait...so what? It's legal in Africa and in many places in the US to use bait. If this would have been any other lion than Cecil, we wouldn't have heard one word about it.

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Everyone is making such a big deal about Walter Palmer's past "conviction" for illegal bear hunting. Here's the story on that:

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walter-palmer-lied-federal-agents-2006-bear-hunt-guilty-plea-conviction-prison-fine-court-documents-criminal-record-wisconsin-minnesota-dentist-dds/

So he somehow, inadvertently shot a bear outside Wisconsin Subzone A1, which is INSIDE of Zone A, which is all a legal bear hunting area. Everything he was in was a legal hunting area but he was only licensed to hunt Subzone A1. A Zone A hunter could hunt in Subzone A1 but not vice versa. When stopped and questioned about it, he said he thought he was in Subzone A1.

The complaint says that "after LEARNING that the bear had been killed illegally", the [hunters] agreed to say it was killed in Subzone A1. So he was convicted of "lying" about where the bear was actually shot. Big deal...it was a dead bear regardless and many other bears were shot in the same area.

Personally I don't see this as a very serious hunting offense. But the media is having a fit over it and the antis are running with it.

I got cited for "driving" on state trust land in CO two years ago. I drove on a county road until it ended. The sign said "End of county road" and that was it. I stopped at two ranch houses to ask about continuing to drive on the road, but nobody was there. So I decided to drive further. We ended up at a cattle guard and on the fence was a big sign that said "Sand Creek State Wildlife area. There were vehicle tracks into the area on a well-traveled road. We reached a place where the road forked, and there were vehicle tracks on that other fork so we took it. There were no signs until about a mile in we came upon a gate that said "No vehicles beyond this point" so we parked there and packed in to hunt.

After a couple days we heard some chainsawing below us and I got uncomfortable with things. I told my son and his friend that we should pack back out and go to the ranch to make sure we were legal. We stopped at a ranch house and talked to the owner. He told us the Game and Fish was looking for us. So we drove to town and went to the Game and Fish to straighten things out. I explained that the signage was very confusing, and we thought we were legally on the property, which we were. It was how we got there that was the issue. He said "it happens all the time" up there.

Regardless of the fact that we came down voluntarily, interrupting our hunt, and tried to get everything sorted out, the asshole G&F officer cited us for driving on the state land. I told him it was obvious that others were doing it but he said some people were "authorized" to do so. We found an outfitter trailer back on the road a ways, and he was obviously allowed to do that. That was partly why we thought we were legal. What we did was not that big of a deal, and we voluntarily came down to address it. I asked the G&F to just give us a warning citation due to our cooperation but the dumfuk wouldn't do that. We could have just as easily stayed there and come home later....they may not have pursued us at all.

Anyhow, I fought the ticket. I traveled back up there since I was retired (wouldn't have done it otherwise) and went to court. I explained my case to the DA and said the G&F was negligent in providing proper signage and even told me "it happens all the time". The G&F official said they don't have to put up any signage at all, and it was my fault for not reading their brochure properly. I said if they had so many issues with it they should inform hunters with proper signs to prevent this from happening, instead of letting it "happen all the time". All they needed to do was put up a sign that said "No public road access beyond this point" or similar. The DA agreed with me, and offered a plea bargain just to get me out of there. I got 6 months "probation" after which everything was dropped, and I paid a $50 fine and lost no points on my hunting license. After the 6 months everything would be wiped off my record. I demanded that the G&F be required to address the signage issue in return for the deal, and the DA agreed. I heard there are better signs there now.

The point is, people could argue that I was "convicted" of trespassing or illegally entering property when it was really a misunderstanding and negligence on the part of the G&F that contributed to it.

[smooth 56]

Well I figured that thread on the other site would be closed and it was Lol.Yeah the comments were pretty sad the 2 Canadians if you ask me are tree huggers they have no idea what there talking about.
I hunt like you Chevy I don't just kill anything that walks in I wait on something that's worth the effort.Once the animal is down the work begins like you there is more times that I come home empty handed rather than just fill a tag.
If you ever get to go to Africa you will have a ball. The hunts we did and sold were archery only some of the most exciting hunting you will ever do. Just be prepared to wait on the animals that you harvest it takes a while to get them threw customs and if you kill a warthog it takes even longer. Oh yea none of the meat goes to waste ether you will eat it while your there or it is donated to the village people nothing goes to waste there.

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Now more truth is coming out to counter the hoopla and lies:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07/31/dentist-who-killed-cecil-lion-wanted-to-kill-elephant-next-guide-says/?intcmp=hpbt4

"Bronkhorst also told the Telegraph that Palmer's party never intended to hunt on the farmland where Cecil was killed, which is adjacent to a national park. He said he group was late getting started on the day's hunting because Palmer's luggage was late in arriving. "At the last minute I had to divert from a [hunting] concession about eight miles away," Bronkhorst said."

"Bronkhorst tells the Telegraph he first saw Cecil at around 10 p.m. on the night of July 1, describing him as "a magnificent animal." He said Palmer fired an arrow at the lion, which disappeared into some tall grass.

"Bow and arrow wounds are different to gun wounds, and they don’t show much. But we couldn’t do anything that night," Bronkhorst said. The hunters returned the next day, when Bronkhorst says Palmer killed Cecil with a bow-and-arrow. Only then, when hunters examined the lion's carcass, did they notice Cecil's collar.

"I was devastated," Bronkhorst said. "I could not have seen the collar at night. We would never shoot a collared animal. I was devastated, and so was [Palmer], we were both upset, and I panicked and took it off and put it in a tree.

"I should have taken it to [the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlfe Management Authority], I admit that. ... We took the head and skin, as the client had paid for the trophy."

So he didn't suffer for "40 hours" as has been claimed. This is a common occurrence for bowhunters, or any hunters. You hit an animal in the evening and have to wait until the next day to recover it. That's so you don't jump a wounded animal and have it run off only to lose it. Or it could be dangerous game. I shot a bear in Idaho with my bow one evening...I was confident it was dead but it ran down a steep mountainside into a deep ravine. My hunting partner was scared to go after it in the dark, so we had to wait until morning to recover it. It was dead at the bottom of the ravine. But what if it wasn't and we went after it the night before? In this case the lion was still alive and could have killed the men.

"Zimbabwe authorities, however, have not announced any charges against Palmer, only saying they want to speak with him and the U.S. embassy was not aware of any extradition requests."

And Palmer was NOT targeting Cecil in his hunt like some people have claimed. Neither was the PH.

"In a statement to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Palmer expressed regret. "I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt... I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion,” he said."

And finally, this hunt had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a crossbow like a lot of articles have claimed. In fact, most bowhunters don't believe in using crossbows and CO specifically outlaws them during the archery season, as do many states.

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Doesn't surprise me that out of the two Canadians that have their heads up their asses on the other site one is Bob_Mclaughlin, aka Romax55 here. I'm surprised that sleeper 55 aka "bootjack over there isn't ranting too.

The ignorant morons claim that "600 lions are poached every year" in Africa. Those 600 lions out of 30,000 are LEGALLY shot by hunters paying big bucks to do so. Apparently the the socialist Canadian retards are jealous of these hunters' success in life.

So they locked the thread and no more debate. That's what I hate about that site. Someone get porchdog over here.

[Rick_L]

porchdog gets sensitive when you present a viewpoint unlike his own too. Just not on this one.

The world has no logic or perspective. The situation has been presented here, rationally.

I saw an article yesterday about "rich dentists" saying their median income is $175k. That's not "rich" in 2015. It's a nice income but not wealthy. I guess it's more than a libtard reporter makes though, and as it should be.

[Maddog]

Porchdog is a redneck. He claims to know a lot about body/paint but he has made remarks that make me doubt that. As far as the $175K income, not rich just a very good income.
As far as Cecil and how it's presented here, yes, it's normal to have varying views. I for one do not like killing big game for trophys. I am not anti hunting nor anti gun just no real reason to kill a lion except in self defense. No reason to get one's panties in a bunch, either way. Except for chebynut that constantly knocks others and their viewpoint. NEWS FLASH-not everyone thinks the same.

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Amazing how this story keeps changing.

First they reported Cecil was shot with a crossbow, then it was a bow and arrow, and some reports still say it was a crossbow. Palmer is an avid bowhunter it seems, and bowhunters rarely use crossbows. Even if it was a crossbow I'm sure it's a legal weapon in Africa.

Then they reported that the hunters were a mile away from the park boundary...then they said they went inside the park..then they say they were within 500 yards of the park. There is no fence. If they found the collar and carcass, how is it they don't know precisely how far from the boundary it was?

Next they said they had the carcass of an animal on the top of a vehicle as bait...then they said they dragged it. I even read they supposedly dragged it into the park and back out.

They said the lion was tracked for 40 hours after being wounded. The PH says they found him the next day and finished him off.

It was reported that he was finished off with a gun....Palmer says it was an arrow. That's easy to verify.

Today they said that Cecil's brother Jericho was also shot...then the guys GPS tracking him said he wasn't. Just adding more to the fire.

Personally I'm believing the PH and Palmer's accounts of what happened because they make more sense to me. What I've heard is Palmer got in late due to luggage issues so they hunted this land closer to the park instead of going to the place the PH wanted to go. They had bait which is legal. The hunters haven't said how far from the park boundary they were as far as I know. Hunting with a bow is legal in Zimbabwe. Cecil was shot outside of the park. When he was shot he ran off so they waited til morning to track him. When they found him he was dispatched with another arrow. After they recovered him they discovered the collar and panicked, so they took it off and hid it. Neither the PH or Palmer said they wanted to shoot this particular lion, and I believe them. Why would you want to do that?

So the truth trickles in and the lies and misrepresentations continue to swirl. It will be interesting to see how the two accounts of the hunt match up.

Some of the media calls this "poaching" but I'm not willing to say it is until they say specifically what law was broken in this hunt. I have even read references to the 600 lions killed legally every year as "poaching". Some people obviously don't know what that means.

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Just as I figured, no charges against Palmer, the dentist. Investigations concluded that he had the proper permits.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4552880321001/no-charges-for-dentist-who-killed-cecil-the-lion/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips

It will be interesting to see what happens to the PH and the charges against him. He is "accused" of "luring" Cecil the lion off the preserve onto private property where he was killed. I have a hard time believing any existing laws were broken. Cecil made the mistake of leaving the sanctuary and as a result got shot and killed. I'm sure the dentist feels bad about shooting him.

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Less than a year after the uproar over Cecil the lion....

"“Far fewer hunters are going to Zimbabwe,” said Steve Taylor, a former game ranger and guide in Zimbabwe who is now associate director for International Safety and Security at Harvard University. “Directly after the Cecil situation numbers declined precipitously."

”One Zimbabwean conservancy floated the idea of culling nearly 200 of its lions to fight overpopulation. That notion – since tabled – has drawn condemnation, but it highlights the desperation some conservancies face as lion and other animal populations go unchecked, say some conservationists.


Efforts to move some of the more than 500 lions living in the confines of the Bubye Valley Conservancy have so far been derailed. But the issue of overpopulation received little attention – until the cull proposal was mentioned."


"Bubye, located about 300 miles southeast of the Hwange National Refuge where Cecil was shot, relies on trophy hunting to support its operating costs. But since Cecil’s death – and the outrage that followed – there has been a slowdown of hunters willing to travel to Zimbabwe to bag big game. In addition to negative public opinion impacting decisions, hunters have also been hampered by several major airlines refusing to fly exotic animal trophies and the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service listing species of African lions as endangered."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/02/25/cecil-effect-dangerous-for-lions-guides.html?intcmp=hpbt2

[JT56]

Now wonder if the groups that opposed the hunting will assist those in need now? Nope our cause was against the hunting in the first place. Now what to do with the over population...Can you imagine what would happen with the deer and elk population without legal hunting?