jeep guy here.... bought a wagon

[millchas]

hey all!
I'm 36. grew up wrenching on jeeps just to keep them running. I have learned a lot along the way. I learned out of necessity, saw something that needed to be done and bought the tools to teach myself how to do it. I just bought a 57 wagon that seems like it was buried in the bottom of a salt mine. it is rough. My initial plan is to do a frame swa/ body drop with a 04 Yukon Denali that I converted to 2wd. the wheelbase is 1 in longer. but the track width needs to be narrowed 4". modern suspension and steering, disk brakes at all 4 corners. cheap air ride system and an iron block 6.0/4l80e. I know it's not traditional, but it's what makes me smile. I know I need to make some connections in the local trip five groups. right off the bat I need all new floors and rockers. everything 6" from the rocker down is basically dust. any Tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated. Tom the guy I bought it from is great and has tons and tons of parts/ cores for sale in central Michigan.

[Belair-o]

Welcome!
That is a huge job you have planned, but you are already gettin' after it (from the pics). There are some great builders on the site who can be a help, me thinks - just ask questions. Since the guy you bought the wagon from has tons of parts, might he have the body parts?
Welcome, Doug

[chevynut]

Welcome to the site. I'm not sure what your objective for the car is but swapping a frame like that isn't an easy undertaking. I personally don't see what you're gaining without a whole lot of thrash. First off, does the body even fit the frame without a bunch of floor modification? I'm guessing every body mount needs to be re-done. The wheelbase is off, which could cause problems or just look weird. Then you get down to the details....when you narrow the track width, it's easy to do with a solid rear axle. But how do you narrow the independent front end 4"? The a-arms would have to be moved inboard which could cause problems with the engine fitting, not to mention the steering box location. If you shorten the a-arms, you mess up the geometry. And what about the bump steer issues, and ackerman? Maybe you've been through all this before, but I would closely analyze what you're doing and see if it even makes sense.

[millchas]

Welcome to the site. I'm not sure what your objective for the car is but swapping a frame like that isn't an easy undertaking. I personally don't see what you're gaining without a whole lot of thrash. First off, does the body even fit the frame without a bunch of floor modification? I'm guessing every body mount needs to be re-done. The wheelbase is off, which could cause problems or just look weird. Then you get down to the details....when you narrow the track width, it's easy to do with a solid rear axle. But how do you narrow the independent front end 4"? The a-arms would have to be moved inboard which could cause problems with the engine fitting, not to mention the steering box location. If you shorten the a-arms, you mess up the geometry. And what about the bump steer issues, and ackerman? Maybe you've been through all this before, but I would closely analyze what you're doing and see if it even makes sense.

Hey, glad you read my post. most of what I am planning started out as a thought " I wonder if..... and wouldn't it be cool to....."
it really snowballed from there. of course it would be easier to have kept the factory frame. however if I would have bought the car with the frame it would have been out of my price range with 2 young children at home.
Here is my thought process.... and to be perfectly honest I have more motivation than brains. And I very much appreciate your questions as they all have gone through my head... but I am by no means saying I have all the things figured out. first off, the car has no floor or rocker structure left years of neglect and sitting in Michigan took it's toll. I am not going to shell out 1k for factory repop floors just to cut them up. so I am going to teach myself how to hammer form and flow form floor pans with an air hammer and plywood molds. so I can make the floor fit any frame nuance I need it to.
next the rear axle got switched to a trailblazer 10 bolt. I picked up with control arms for 100$ it is 4" narrower than a Yukon. and has similar 4link geometry I'll just redrill the shafts. to fit my wheels. so that narrowing is done and if it breaks the trailblazer ss 14 bolt rear axle will bolt right in place. I thought Alot about the track width in the front. and perhaps this is where it all falls apart, I thought about just shortening the a arms, and decided against that because part of doing this whole frame swap was to put modern suspension and brakes under a iconic piece of art. I also thought about "z"ing the front half of the frame to maintain factory geometry. but that would only take care of half of my track width problems. and I don't have a chassis table to ensure complex 3 axis modification

I decided that I will have to narrow the entire frame by cutting 4" from every crossmember. there are 5 crossmembers I will need to address out of the 8 in this frame. 3 are bolt in and just need new holes drilled and excess cut off. 3 are essentially 2x4 oval tube that I can stagger the removed piece left to right down the length of the frame so that all the weld seams don't line up and create a weak line down the center of the frame like the spine of a book. one will likely need to be removed anyway (it is removed when doing this frame swap on a tri five pickup) and the last crossmember is stamped strap steel that holds the gas tank up. easy enough to cut, overlap and weld up.

that brings me to one other last answer to why this and why that...., the factory poly fuel tank is massive, and has a sufficient fuel pump to supply the size motor that I want to put in this thing. a motor that I also have laying around.

so, price out a 4 corner power assisted disk brake setup for a tri five.
price out a 4 link kit for the rear and power steering kit to make tri five manual steering work.
last of all, price out a 20gal fuel cell and in tank pump setup that mounts underneath the frame so you don't loose cargo space or back seat space.
if you are keeping up with the maths this might explain a little.
This stuff all came standard in the Yukon package. and gm spent millions in R&D.

I parted the Yukon out and this is the leftovers after I doubled my money.

so the long winded answer to why.... because I have more motivation than money. more curiosity than quit. because I like puzzles and making things work together that shouldn't. in the end, my day job in healthcare doesn't feed my creative artistic side, and none of this makes sense, but it will hopefully one day make me or someone else smile.

[chevynut]

Sounds like a helluva lot of work. But I sure understand wanting to do it yourself. I built 100% of my car, down to the C4 conversion frame, fuel and brake lines, fuel tank and pump unit, and even the custom hood hinges and interior. Even if you just narrow the frame you will be affecting the suspension and steering geometry. I don't know how tight the engine is between the a-arms but you will be reducing that space. Are you sure you have room for exhaust? How does moving the steering box inboard 2" affect the steering shaft location? I notice it doesn't use a rack so that's good or you would run into a lot more issues. Lots of things to think about.

This should be interesting. Please post progress pics.

[millchas]

PXL_20250222_191809094.jpg PXL_20250223_192429988.jpg PXL_20250223_233845799.jpg PXL_20250222_191823903.jpg PXL_20250222_191733344.jpg PXL_20250222_191708397.MP.jpg I am using a rack and pinion from a 2wd Tahoe. I'm going to use a heim joints so I don't have to worry about narrowing the rack and pinion or tie rod ends. I made custom mounts for it so that it lines up with the knuckles fine. I will eventually make new control arms to match and change the ball joint angles due to the drop. I'll shorten the lower one so the camber will be appropriate at time height.

I made tons of progress this weekend and had a few very huge wins. the trailblazer axle fits the narrowed rear frame like a glove. factory lower control arms from the trailblazer swapped to the upper factory Yukon and trailblazer mounts.

I picked up a set of jeep gladiator lower control arms to cut up and use for new control arms. it turns out that the jeep control arms are nearly perfect as is. they fit the factory Yukon frame mounts and trailblazer mounts and gave me a great pinion angle at full drop. I measured the new wheelbase with the new control arms and axle...... and the new wheelbase is 114 and 7/8. another big win.

also with it "slammed" the yoke on the rear axle tucks right in the curve or the crossmember, however it acts like a parking brake.... but raised 2 inches off of "slammed" and it moves free! . so I haven't decided if I need to clearance it or not. I will know more when I marry the body to the frame and figure how much I need to channel the floor to get me desired ride height.

lots of progress and things are co.ing together nicely. thanks for reading.

chevynut what all do I need to keep in mind with narrowing the front a arm suspension? isn't this essentially what all of the "mustang 2" style front end kits essentially do?


I know lots about designing 3 and 4 link suspension and there's a 4 link calculator online I can use but that's with a solid front axle and the calculator makes it super simple.