4 year electrical issue

[shua57]

Quick back story.....1957 210 Sedan, ground up garage restoration by me, FI 350 TBI, 200R4 trans, 3.73 Explorer posi traction rear, EZ wiring 21 circuit harness, Autometer gauges and a bunch of custom stuff.
Problem that I thought I fixed:
1957 Chevy ignition switch drops power from ign when turned to start which causes ECM to loose power. Power is need to ECM and fuel pump relay to tell ECM to fire.

My previous solution:
Installed relay - constant power to relay, feed output power to ECM, relay activated by key switch.

Result:
relay fried (after a couple years trying to find the problem). Must have burnt the contacts up because when switch was in run power was backfeeding into relay. Now post 87 (power output) is not showing power during start. ECM is not getting power during cranking because the key switch on a 57 does what it does. For some reason AWW (I think) rebuilt the 55-56 switches so they supply power in both run and start but didn't do the 57's.

Solutions (aka ideas):
Option 1
What is I relayed the key switch? If I install a relay so as when in start mode I feed power back to the run mode.

Option 2:
Install a RFI keyless start kit. I could drop $400 on a kit that just detects when I'm getting close, unlocks my doors, disables the alarm and powers the push button start. Then just hop in and push the start button. Sounds like fun. Might try to just relay the thing till I get the 79 Camaro done.

Question:
Will using a relay to power Run while in start be a problem?
Josh

[shua57]

Ha, finally a solution that I did not know exists. I got in touch with AAW and they already make a 57 switch that they sell in their kits that is bussed in crank and run. I gave up looking 4 years ago and just designed a work around that failed. New switch has been ordered. I'm excited.
Josh

[chevynut]

Josh, I don't know what happened to cause your solution to fail but I don't understand what "power was 'backfeeding' into relay" means. Current runs one direction....from power to ground. I don't understand what the term "backfeeding" refers to.

This is not a new problem and anyone with an electronic ignition system has to deal with it. 55s and 56's have two terminals, "ign 1" and "ign 2" and you just tie them together to make it work. I am not familiar with how the 57 switch works but i do know the starter solenoid supplies power to the coil during cranking, bypassing the ballast resistor.

Do you know how others have solved this problem? Can't you just tie the "R" terminal on the starter and "ignition" terminal on the ignition switch together? All the solenoid is is a relay.

[Rick_L]

I don't see how applying power to both power contacts on a relay "burns it up".

Seems to me that the relay was either defective, or it was not rated for the power it had to handle during cranking.

The "R" terminal on the started solenoid is functionally the same relay. I've never seen an R terminal contact burn up.

[chevynut]

You don't need a new ignition switch, just tie the "IGN" terminal and the solenoid "R" terminal together. That will give you power in both run and start positions of the switch.

[shua57]

Backfeeding is probably not the technical term but what was happening was I was using a 5 prong relay - #30(12V) #87a(12V) #85(ground) #86(switched) #87(output). I had #87 running to the power to the ECM and Fuel pump relay.Since the 57 switch brakes power from run when in crank, I was loosing power to the ECM during cranking, meaning no ECM, no injectors, etc. When I wired the relay in I now realize I wired it wrong but I digress. What was actually happening was during run the wire to the ECM had power which was feeding back into #87 (might of not burnt it up but I think it had something to do with it since I no longer can get 12V from the #87 terminal) but my intent was to feed power to the ECM through the relay.
What I should have done was do like Laszlo said but never even thought of it.
What is going to happen now is I will replace the stock key switch with the AAW switch (it's just the housing, not the tumbler). I may just try to feed power back from the R terminal and send the AAW switch back. Who knows.

Side note.....30 Amp relay, with what looked like acid corrosion around the terminals, car has not been out of garage in 4 years and relay is inside car.
Josh

[shua57]

So no luck last night getting everything to work. When I jumped a wire across the SOL to the IGN car would crank in run. I think I will have to go back through my wiring harness and change a few things. Here is a picture of how my ignition switch pins out:
IGNITION SWITCH.jpg
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't turning the key from OFF to RUN power the IGN and turning the key to START powers just the SOL? If this is the case then I run a start wire from the S terminal on the starter (through the nuetral switch) to the SOL side of the ignition switch, 12v constant power to the BAT. Then the ECM, fuel pump relay, etc off the IGN???
This seems wrong because when I jumper the SOL and IGN, then I am giving power to the SOL while in RUN. This is why I relayed it in the first place, I got stuck here because it seems like I need a IGN2 set of prongs that would only power in the start position but would keep the power to IGN1 (aka bussed).

Brain meltinggggg
Josh

[chevynut]

You can't jumper across the "sol" and "ign" terminals because it will do exactly what it did...crank in run. That's not what I suggested you do. You need to jumper the "ign" terminal and the "R" terminal from the solenoid together. The solenoid is just acting like the relay that you put there and supplies 12V while cranking.

Do you have anything on the "R" terminal of the solenoid now? If not, add a wire and connect it to the "ign" terminal or jumper it where you power your ECM.

[shua57]

Ahh, I see what you are talking about, I was under the dash trying to wire it from memory of this conversation and well got my wires crossed...hehe. I didn't attach anything to the "R" post. It is a high torque mini-starter and I can't even remember what it looks like...lol. I'll give it a shot tonight. I appreciate the help.
Josh

[shua57]

Another quick question if you don't mind, under my dash is a complete wiring mess do to the IDIDIT column, Autometer gauges, stereo, computer,etc...I want to clean it up. Has anyone used wire loom mesh? I love it when I'm building computers and it would be easier to flex than plastic loom. Of course I would have to disconnect all my wiring and run it through a mesh loom.
Josh